2 10 55 Person An individual. Birth Date 1954 Birthplace Saint-Donat-de-Rimouski Schools Attended University of Ottawa, 1973-1977 Degree BA Career administrative Occupation government employee Ethnicity French Devotional Life casual Gender Identity woman Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gagnon, Suzanne Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Mokhtare Zadeh, Tara Location The location of the interview Toronto, Ontario, Canada (via Teams) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:6.300
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I'm testing it right now and it doesn't seem the echo is affecting it. 0:0:6.470 --> 0:0:8.20
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So, OK, there we go. 0:3:19.180 --> 0:3:22.750
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So I'll start the recording process now. 0:3:29.880 --> 0:3:30.650
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:3:30.980 --> 0:3:36.880
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll begin with the first section, which is impact of popular culture. 0:3:37.810 --> 0:3:48.990
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music in a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. 0:3:50.300 --> 0:3:57.550
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
We want to better understand how students relate together with popular culture. 0:3:57.980 --> 0:4:3.320
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So there were less electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s. 0:4:3.690 --> 0:4:8.970
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How was your leisure time structured, or what did students do for fun in the 1970s? 0:4:11.740 --> 0:4:13.30
Dave
We weren't on our cell phones. 0:4:16.820 --> 0:4:17.310
Dave
Golly. 0:4:20.200 --> 0:4:21.310
Dave
I've umm. 0:4:22.330 --> 0:4:26.40
Dave
I had a car so I did and it kept me pretty poor. 0:4:26.270 --> 0:4:28.540
Dave
You either had a car or you could have a social life. 0:4:28.630 --> 0:4:29.420
Dave
I picked a car. 0:4:31.250 --> 0:4:31.780
Dave
I didn't. 0:4:31.870 --> 0:4:36.910
Dave
I didn't go out a lot so I I I I didn't live on campus. 0:4:36.920 --> 0:4:37.940
Dave
I lived off campus. 0:4:37.950 --> 0:4:41.460
Dave
My my first degree, but there I didn't. 0:4:44.90 --> 0:4:47.60
Dave
I meet a lot of people there. 0:4:47.70 --> 0:4:47.320
Dave
I'm. 0:4:47.330 --> 0:4:58.880
Dave
I'm not that at that time wasn't really going or Calgarian, so I don't think I I didn't go and hang out to to any of the bars or whatever busy studying too. 0:4:58.890 --> 0:4:59.60
Dave
A lot. 0:4:59.700 --> 0:5:2.230
Dave
Umm and I go home on. 0:5:2.320 --> 0:5:6.60
Dave
So I lived in Toronto at the time, so I I'd go home from London to Toronto. 0:5:8.40 --> 0:5:11.140
Dave
Many weekends, I think at that time I had a girlfriend. 0:5:12.980 --> 0:5:15.470
Dave
So any of the social stuff I did was probably in Toronto. 0:5:18.510 --> 0:5:19.280
Dave
I didn't really. 0:5:19.290 --> 0:5:26.880
Dave
So I lived off campus, so I didn't do a lot of on campus stuff and I didn't really go out and hang out a lot off campus. 0:5:27.570 --> 0:5:28.280
Dave
This, I said. 0:5:28.520 --> 0:5:29.970
Dave
If you had a car, you were poor. 0:5:31.940 --> 0:5:32.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yeah. 0:5:31.680 --> 0:5:37.660
Dave
I put myself through university mostly so it was whatever my summer job gave me in terms of money. 0:5:37.670 --> 0:5:41.440
Dave
That's what I lived on, so it was pretty, pretty Spartan. 0:5:42.880 --> 0:5:52.900
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I know you said that you didn't spend much time on campus, but what were the most popular hangout spots on and off campus that you are aware of? 0:5:54.180 --> 0:5:58.780
Dave
It was a every campus has a bar pub, so I'd go there a bit. 0:6:1.260 --> 0:6:2.410
Dave
Let's say I don't really think. 0:6:2.420 --> 0:6:4.350
Dave
I mean, there'd be football games. 0:6:4.360 --> 0:6:10.240
Dave
You know the the the people go to umm, you really hang out that much? 0:6:10.600 --> 0:6:14.310
Dave
Umm I I hadn't met that many people. 0:6:14.540 --> 0:6:15.200
Dave
Men or women? 0:6:19.30 --> 0:6:21.870
Dave
Yeah, I don't really didn't really do that much on campus, to be honest. 0:6:23.360 --> 0:6:23.940
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:6:23.980 --> 0:6:27.360
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did you attend any live music events during your university years? 0:6:28.640 --> 0:6:29.150
Dave
They had. 0:6:29.900 --> 0:6:33.50
Dave
Yeah, there was a concert venue off campus. 0:6:33.250 --> 0:6:39.510
Dave
A few shows dating with Murray McLaughlin was one vice Canadian folk singer. 0:6:40.160 --> 0:6:44.560
Dave
A few of those, but again, I'm I didn't spend a lot of money on that. 0:6:44.570 --> 0:6:45.880
Dave
So a few things. 0:6:46.670 --> 0:6:51.590
Dave
Mostly it'd be like a, a, a concert or something like that rock concert. 0:6:53.110 --> 0:6:55.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I'll be skipping the next question. 0:6:56.70 --> 0:7:3.340
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the original question after that is did anglophones and francophones date each other during the 1970s. 0:7:3.530 --> 0:7:8.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
But since Western isn't a bilingual institution, I'll change that question. 0:7:8.210 --> 0:7:16.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did anglophones and basically anyone else, whether it was like international students or anything, did they date each other in the 1970s? 0:7:17.690 --> 0:7:32.690
Dave
Album I I think so and back then it was a the university was a lot more white and Western is a is is or has been probably still is known as a fairly well off university. 0:7:32.700 --> 0:7:39.600
Dave
They the the women on campus, usually we're pretty from from from some money so. 0:7:41.910 --> 0:7:50.990
Dave
But I I don't think there was much in the way of uh, you know, mixed cultures or races, but I don't think anybody thought much of it. 0:7:51.0 --> 0:7:55.900
Dave
Like if you you just you hung out with these people in class or you date them. 0:7:55.910 --> 0:7:58.140
Dave
I don't think there's any issue that I don't think it wasn't. 0:7:58.150 --> 0:8:0.730
Dave
It wasn't big or or small or anything like it was just something. 0:8:0.740 --> 0:8:4.680
Dave
Ohh well, you know you're you're dating, you know, black girl, brown girl or whatever. 0:8:4.690 --> 0:8:6.50
Dave
I don't only get ever matter to anybody. 0:8:7.40 --> 0:8:8.150
Dave
You have to remember, was the. 0:8:8.310 --> 0:8:9.490
Dave
That was the early 70s. 0:8:9.500 --> 0:8:20.610
Dave
So when I did my physics degree and and things were pretty like Toronto was still pretty white back then, it wasn't that there was a lot of other cultures and so on. 0:8:20.620 --> 0:8:22.490
Dave
It wasn't that we didn't know about them. 0:8:22.500 --> 0:8:23.570
Dave
It just wasn't that common. 0:8:23.580 --> 0:8:26.980
Dave
So Western was kind of a microcosm of that. 0:8:27.60 --> 0:8:31.440
Dave
So there there wasn't a lot of different cultures and that was. 0:8:33.160 --> 0:8:35.70
Dave
50 years ago so. 0:8:34.950 --> 0:8:35.90
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You. 0:8:37.600 --> 0:8:43.730
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so we use the term party culture to refer to social activities outside the classroom. 0:8:44.80 --> 0:8:48.410
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How would you describe the party culture on campus during the 1970s? 0:8:52.100 --> 0:9:0.310
Dave
Well, by the time my, my second degree I I started I started 1979, I graduated 92. 0:9:1.120 --> 0:9:7.290
Dave
Umm, there was a lot, a lot more party atmosphere than I think that much later. 0:9:8.20 --> 0:9:14.760
Dave
But again, I I lived off campus in my PhD degree or my my physiotherapy degree. 0:9:14.770 --> 0:9:17.470
Dave
I was married at the time and my first daughter. 0:9:17.480 --> 0:9:23.480
Dave
Your Matt's mom was two weeks old when I first started. 0:9:24.100 --> 0:9:31.600
Dave
Umm my physiotherapy degree, so there wasn't a lot of social life that I kind of participated in. 0:9:33.340 --> 0:9:39.870
Dave
I think most of a lot of my classmates, it was a professional degree, so a lot of my classmates, we got to know each other, we hung out. 0:9:39.880 --> 0:9:44.360
Dave
We had a lot of class parties, umm and love love. 0:9:44.370 --> 0:9:49.740
Dave
The kids would go to off campus to some of the bars and stuff, so I think that was fairly common all through the 70s. 0:9:52.930 --> 0:9:56.250
Dave
I mean, there's only so much on campus, and you're gonna do most of the social life. 0:9:56.300 --> 0:10:0.740
Dave
You went off, grabbed a bus with your buddies or whatever when off campus. 0:10:3.60 --> 0:10:7.0
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what did the student body think about the Vietnam War? 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:13.850
Dave
Yeah, it's a. 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.930
Dave
It's a while ago I I don't. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:17.950
Dave
It wasn't umm. 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:22.290
Dave
I don't think it's a big thing. 0:10:22.300 --> 0:10:23.800
Dave
I mean, it wasn't something we talked about. 0:10:24.900 --> 0:10:28.110
Dave
You knew what was going on, but I don't think it was. 0:10:28.340 --> 0:10:36.370
Dave
I don't recall it being a big topic of conversation or or, you know, getting together and having, you know, heated conversations about whether right or wrong. 0:10:36.380 --> 0:10:37.560
Dave
I would or whatever. Umm. 0:10:38.430 --> 0:10:42.100
Dave
I I at that like and by the by the late 70s. 0:10:42.110 --> 0:10:43.130
Dave
I don't think it was a. 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.950
Dave
Not really a topic of conversation at all, and it wasn't it. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.50
Dave
It was South of the border, so it wasn't as much our problem as it was. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.50
Dave
I've had friends from high school who went. 0:10:55.620 --> 0:10:58.820
Dave
Listed in the states, but it wasn't really our problem. 0:10:58.830 --> 0:11:1.650
Dave
I don't think was a lot of conversation about it. 0:11:2.280 --> 0:11:4.570
Dave
The way probably was in the state. 0:11:6.110 --> 0:11:12.250
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so rock'n'roll artist in the 1960s have promoted various forms of protest. 0:11:12.590 --> 0:11:17.290
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did your parents see rock'n'roll as rebellious or just some sort of pop form of popular music? 0:11:20.560 --> 0:11:24.580
Dave
My folks are pretty straight at least, so they there was. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.310
Dave
I thought there was a little bit of rebellion or dollars. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.930
Dave
They weren't awful, but they were. 0:11:29.80 --> 0:11:33.110
Dave
Mom and Dad were straight down the line, so yes, I would say they were. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.150
Dave
They would consider it a bit rebellious, uh? 0:11:39.620 --> 0:11:42.230
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so some sorry. 0:11:40.670 --> 0:11:45.640
Dave
That dad dad used to joke that they were there to be some music on the radio. 0:11:45.650 --> 0:11:48.200
Dave
He he'd say those guys aren't gonna finish at the same time. 0:11:48.210 --> 0:11:50.650
Dave
Are they all the positions is there? 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:54.110
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:11:52.370 --> 0:11:54.380
Dave
Sorry, yeah, didn't much show. 0:11:57.50 --> 0:12:8.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So some youth culture voices of the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs to what extent to what extent were recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s? 0:12:10.930 --> 0:12:11.330
Dave
It wasn't. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:14.790
Dave
It wasn't a big thing. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.580
Dave
I mean it it there are kids are kids. 0:12:19.170 --> 0:12:22.160
Dave
If you wanted pot, you could you always do somebody. 0:12:22.170 --> 0:12:22.800
Dave
You could get it. 0:12:22.810 --> 0:12:24.170
Dave
It was still illegal then. Obviously. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.170
Dave
Umm yeah. 0:12:26.900 --> 0:12:28.190
Dave
I I don't think. 0:12:30.990 --> 0:12:31.330
Dave
I don't know. 0:12:31.340 --> 0:12:33.120
Dave
There's a lot of regular outside of part of. 0:12:33.130 --> 0:12:34.770
Dave
There's a lot of recreational drug use. 0:12:34.810 --> 0:12:36.370
Dave
And even cocaine was not. 0:12:38.420 --> 0:12:41.790
Dave
Probably by the 80s or 90s, cocaine became more calm. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.140
Dave
And but I don't think, umm, I didn't know anybody. 0:12:45.150 --> 0:12:45.520
Dave
Who? 0:12:45.590 --> 0:12:47.240
Dave
Who knew anybody kind of thing? 0:12:47.250 --> 0:12:47.480
Dave
Who? 0:12:47.490 --> 0:12:48.60
Dave
Who used it? 0:12:48.70 --> 0:12:48.880
Dave
Or or or or. 0:12:48.890 --> 0:12:49.800
Dave
No, but I mean it was. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:55.520
Dave
Was around I'm sure, but I think that the most common thing would have been marijuana. 0:12:55.530 --> 0:12:57.450
Dave
But again, you had to. 0:12:57.700 --> 0:12:59.650
Dave
You had to work hard to get it and. 0:13:1.640 --> 0:13:2.350
Dave
Hello I don't. 0:13:4.730 --> 0:13:8.190
Dave
So I'm aware of not none of my friends or classmates really used it a lot. 0:13:8.920 --> 0:13:13.500
Dave
If anything was marijuana, I don't think anybody I knew used anything else. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:15.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Here. 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.890
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the next question is optional, but I'll ask it anyways. 0:13:18.900 --> 0:13:21.290
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You could choose to answer it or not. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:27.490
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So from the 1970s speak about tripping and taking psychedelics to reach a higher state of consciousness. 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
To what extent did students on campus use hallucinogens? 0:13:32.450 --> 0:13:32.700
Dave
Who? 0:13:32.900 --> 0:13:35.50
Dave
I you know, I don't, I don't think so. 0:13:35.60 --> 0:13:39.870
Dave
I think I may be naive here, but I I think you're at on campus. 0:13:40.270 --> 0:13:46.780
Dave
You have why should have a little bit more money to maybe other campuses, but I I I I don't think there was a really a focus on that. 0:13:46.790 --> 0:13:52.700
Dave
I think you kids are kids, obviously, but I don't think there was a lot of tripping went on. 0:13:52.710 --> 0:13:55.800
Dave
I mean, you had to still show up for class and not fail out and so on. 0:13:56.130 --> 0:13:56.540
Dave
So I don't. 0:13:58.890 --> 0:14:1.290
Dave
I don't think at at at Western. 0:14:1.300 --> 0:14:5.980
Dave
I don't think there's a big thing at all, and certainly nothing that I heard. 0:14:6.250 --> 0:14:10.40
Dave
I mean, I was always something, I guess, but it wasn't really common at all. 0:14:10.470 --> 0:14:13.940
Dave
And I again, they were harder to come by even than than marijuana. 0:14:13.980 --> 0:14:14.440
Dave
So. 0:14:14.650 --> 0:14:18.750
Dave
So I don't think it was a big thing for me on on Western's campus. 0:14:20.250 --> 0:14:20.960
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:14:21.30 --> 0:14:25.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll be moving on to next section, which is about the female experience. 0:14:26.730 --> 0:14:31.720
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So cultural historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave feminism. 0:14:32.210 --> 0:14:38.730
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
That as a part of the counterculture movement, women during the night in the early 1970s sought to break down gender barriers. 0:14:39.250 --> 0:14:45.160
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Does this argument resonate with your experience on the Universe University campus during the early 1970s? 0:14:47.0 --> 0:14:47.890
Dave
I would say so. 0:14:47.900 --> 0:14:49.940
Dave
I think it was it. 0:14:50.100 --> 0:14:56.480
Dave
Yeah, there was a lot of assuming we can do what we want to kind of thing, I mean. 0:14:58.610 --> 0:15:3.660
Dave
I I think that was the the the in the the heat of it back then. 0:15:3.670 --> 0:15:14.20
Dave
I mean, women were very conscious of doing what they wanted as they wanted, looking out for themselves, career, sex, as they wanted to, relationships as they wanted to. 0:15:14.30 --> 0:15:16.20
Dave
I think that was huge back then. 0:15:16.30 --> 0:15:20.90
Dave
I it wasn't something you to me. 0:15:20.100 --> 0:15:21.980
Dave
It wasn't a big thing, was kind of like, you know, OK. 0:15:22.20 --> 0:15:27.160
Dave
Ohh of course you know and I think a lot of it was that it wasn't like people were. 0:15:27.450 --> 0:15:30.960
Dave
I don't remember a protester or or things like that. 0:15:31.30 --> 0:15:36.890
Dave
On a cap, women on campus protesting stuff like that, which is kind of, we're just going to do like, let's get it done kind of thing. 0:15:36.990 --> 0:15:37.580
Dave
It wasn't. 0:15:37.890 --> 0:15:38.760
Dave
It wasn't really. 0:15:39.670 --> 0:15:40.410
Dave
There was a lot of. 0:15:41.150 --> 0:15:42.870
Dave
I'm sad. 0:15:43.450 --> 0:15:46.440
Dave
Social action about which is something like you kind of went. 0:15:46.450 --> 0:15:46.800
Dave
Yeah, OK. 0:15:46.810 --> 0:15:47.570
Dave
This makes sense. 0:15:47.580 --> 0:15:48.870
Dave
At least that's my perception of it. 0:15:49.900 --> 0:15:56.570
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so in your own words, what did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s? 0:15:59.30 --> 0:15:59.700
Dave
Jeez, I don't know. 0:16:5.820 --> 0:16:11.900
Dave
I I guess just equality like the do do. 0:16:11.910 --> 0:16:16.990
Dave
There's no particular roles that do what you want it to. 0:16:17.660 --> 0:16:20.110
Dave
I it wasn't to me. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:29.110
Dave
It wasn't about and activism or or protesting or whatever I think was just about, well, yeah, just do what? 0:16:29.290 --> 0:16:30.30
Dave
What's right? 0:16:30.40 --> 0:16:30.680
Dave
You know what I mean? 0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:31.780
Dave
I it wasn't. 0:16:31.850 --> 0:16:39.200
Dave
I don't think it was a something to galvanized people to to get together and protest or you know, whatever. 0:16:39.210 --> 0:16:40.150
Dave
I think it was just kinda. 0:16:40.460 --> 0:16:43.220
Dave
Yeah, that's just this is this is right, let's just move on. 0:16:45.260 --> 0:16:49.770
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today. 0:16:50.180 --> 0:16:56.820
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classroom or at social events compared to male students? 0:17:3.570 --> 0:17:4.60
Dave
Yeah, I know. 0:17:4.70 --> 0:17:7.430
Dave
We like, I think roles were still like. 0:17:11.100 --> 0:17:11.440
Dave
You're. 0:17:13.820 --> 0:17:14.220
Dave
Your. 0:17:15.740 --> 0:17:19.160
Dave
Dating and hanging out, it was like a A I don't think. 0:17:22.140 --> 0:17:23.500
Dave
I mean a role. 0:17:23.510 --> 0:17:27.590
Dave
I don't know if you had classmates who were male, female. 0:17:27.660 --> 0:17:28.490
Dave
Have you hung out? 0:17:28.980 --> 0:17:31.680
Dave
We'd, we'd laugh and joke and and study. 0:17:37.420 --> 0:17:38.190
Dave
OK, this thing. 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.780
Dave
Sorry, my phones ringing here. 0:17:40.460 --> 0:17:40.890
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
That's OK. 0:17:42.300 --> 0:17:42.660
Dave
I can't even. 0:17:46.930 --> 0:17:47.500
Dave
So I don't. 0:17:49.650 --> 0:17:50.970
Dave
Like I don't, it's just. 0:17:54.340 --> 0:17:55.150
Dave
There wasn't a blur. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.60
Dave
I I don't know like it was just you. 0:17:59.370 --> 0:18:0.830
Dave
Guys hang out with girls like. 0:18:0.840 --> 0:18:3.170
Dave
Yeah, because they were girls and and and vice versa. 0:18:3.180 --> 0:18:6.940
Dave
Like it wasn't a, it wasn't kind of a confusion or a wondering about that. 0:18:7.90 --> 0:18:9.390
Dave
It was just kind of, you know, does that make sense? 0:18:10.650 --> 0:18:11.980
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
I suppose, yeah. 0:18:12.390 --> 0:18:17.220
0:20:59.170 --> 0:21:6.450
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So in the 1970s, where their programs, departments or clubs where women were less present and accepted. 0:21:12.590 --> 0:21:12.800
Dave
I'm. 0:21:16.0 --> 0:21:18.70
Dave
I don't, I don't think so. 0:21:18.530 --> 0:21:20.0
Dave
I'm. I never. 0:21:20.90 --> 0:21:25.140
Dave
I didn't join many of those things, so I don't draw a lot of first time knowledge. 0:21:25.150 --> 0:21:25.980
Dave
I don't think there was any. 0:21:28.150 --> 0:21:33.940
Dave
I think, yeah, nothing that I can think are really any any discrimination that way. 0:21:33.950 --> 0:21:34.500
Dave
Any difference? 0:21:36.660 --> 0:21:36.850
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:21:37.890 --> 0:21:46.770
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
In the sense of departments, I suppose it's meaning like the Steins Department or alike engineering, where they less present in that. 0:21:45.750 --> 0:21:48.580
Dave
Ohh, OK Ohh OK, sorry I misunderstood. 0:21:48.590 --> 0:21:48.920
Dave
Yeah. 0:21:48.930 --> 0:21:54.810
Dave
Well, certainly engineering was, you know, was a guys hang out all the stuff they did. 0:21:54.820 --> 0:21:58.160
Dave
There were very few women in engineering. 0:21:58.390 --> 0:22:7.0
Dave
More in science, my that's we have a my class in in, umm physiotherapy. 0:22:7.200 --> 0:22:7.840
Dave
It was. 0:22:7.990 --> 0:22:11.720
Dave
It was thirty students and 25 are women, so that was. 0:22:11.770 --> 0:22:17.560
Dave
But I think that kind of reflected more sort of what society expected people to do. 0:22:17.620 --> 0:22:27.650
Dave
But the I think that was part of it, that women didn't gravitate into things like engineering and technology math, that sort of thing. Umm. 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:27.910
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:22:29.590 --> 0:22:35.280
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll move on to next bit, which is about ideology and generational differences. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:44.430
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that you're a generation rebelled against the values of your parents. 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:52.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Generation to what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize for a more just society and a better world? 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.660
Dave
I don't think there was a lot of. 0:23:1.160 --> 0:23:4.680
Dave
Yeah, sort of social action around that. 0:23:4.690 --> 0:23:9.780
Dave
I I think we, uh, something that you knew about, but it wasn't. 0:23:9.790 --> 0:23:10.570
Dave
There wasn't a whole lot of. 0:23:13.190 --> 0:23:16.350
Dave
Activity around that like I think we were aware of it, but there wasn't. 0:23:16.390 --> 0:23:20.0
Dave
It wasn't something that we it wasn't protests and and things like that. 0:23:20.10 --> 0:23:23.770
Dave
I mean, umm, universities are a different culture. 0:23:23.780 --> 0:23:30.330
Dave
It's kind of a little microcosm of the the world in there, but I don't think I recall anything along those lines. 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:39.660
Dave
Umm, any kind of counterculture kind of extra interest the. 0:23:42.290 --> 0:23:44.670
Dave
Maybe I I I just can't think of. 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:52.790
Dave
Like aside from from different faculties and so on, but I I don't think there's any kind of interest in that kind of stuff at all. 0:23:52.850 --> 0:23:53.710
Dave
Not that I'm aware of. 0:23:55.260 --> 0:24:3.350
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so to what extent did your generation believe that your parents notions about gender, family and dating were outdated? 0:24:9.160 --> 0:24:11.740
Dave
But to a fair degree, I guess I mean. 0:24:13.630 --> 0:24:19.40
Dave
Umm, gender wasn't a big thing back then, not like it is now. 0:24:19.230 --> 0:24:25.640
Dave
Dating, I think you know, my parents hope that you'd marry. 0:24:26.10 --> 0:24:30.160
Dave
So don't have kids and grandkids so quickly kind of thing. 0:24:30.170 --> 0:24:35.300
Dave
So and and you know you, you'd marry a nice girl or she'd marry a nice guy or whatever. 0:24:36.310 --> 0:24:45.160
Dave
I think by the 70s we were a little more laid back about who we picked as a partner, whatever for dating or for marriage or whatever. 0:24:45.170 --> 0:24:52.50
Dave
So yeah, I would say we were then pushing away from what my parents would expect. 0:24:53.580 --> 0:24:59.230
Dave
Back in my so my parents culture is very like they they it was, it was post war. 0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:4.910
Dave
So it was busy getting on with things and building a life and so on and all of other stuff. 0:25:4.920 --> 0:25:15.290
Dave
My, my, my parents didn't probably appreciate that as much the so why can't you just find a nice girl and settle down and kind of would be there philosophy, you know? 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:16.620
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yeah. 0:25:17.610 --> 0:25:26.610
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so looking back at the 1970s, what aspect of Canadian society did you see as most out of whack and in need of fixing? 0:25:29.980 --> 0:25:30.140
Dave
Yeah. 0:25:31.770 --> 0:25:32.440
Dave
See, I don't know. 0:25:32.460 --> 0:25:33.750
Dave
I really thought about it. Umm. 0:25:40.130 --> 0:25:42.150
Dave
I'm not really sure. 0:25:44.540 --> 0:25:49.870
Dave
I don't think Ohh most of the people I knew weren't really social activists. 0:25:50.780 --> 0:25:52.290
Dave
Umm, weren't. 0:25:54.430 --> 0:25:55.60
Dave
Concerned. 0:25:56.180 --> 0:25:57.460
Dave
No, that's not the right word. 0:25:57.540 --> 0:25:59.900
Dave
Word weren't active about it. Umm. 0:26:2.20 --> 0:26:2.530
Dave
I don't think we. 0:26:4.390 --> 0:26:7.810
Dave
Like you're you're sort of busy doing your own thing rather than worrying about. 0:26:9.490 --> 0:26:10.560
Dave
Social change. 0:26:10.570 --> 0:26:14.60
Dave
Social action, at least not that I'm aware of. 0:26:14.70 --> 0:26:14.570
Dave
I don't, I don't. 0:26:16.330 --> 0:26:20.130
Dave
In kind of a university environment, that wasn't anything that I particularly saw. 0:26:22.90 --> 0:26:28.380
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what were the principle forms of injustice in Canadian society during the 1970s? 0:26:30.550 --> 0:26:30.980
Dave
Don't go away. 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.130
Dave
That I'm having trouble remembering. 0:26:38.110 --> 0:26:40.630
Dave
Well, we weren't aware of it, but certainly indigenous. 0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:46.880
Dave
Stuff was we I don't think we were aware of it as much back then as we are now. 0:26:48.40 --> 0:26:56.400
Dave
Umm, some level of of gender women weren't didn't have access to as many things, but we weren't. 0:26:57.310 --> 0:26:59.200
Dave
That wasn't a hot social issue. 0:27:0.380 --> 0:27:1.30
Dave
Umm. 0:27:5.990 --> 0:27:11.460
Dave
And I I can't think of like it wasn't something that I I think I was particularly aware of. 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:19.770
Dave
You know you're busy doing other things, but not really aware of the the wider social issues kind of thing. 0:27:21.740 --> 0:27:22.390
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:27.710
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did you feel that the political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens needs? 0:27:31.20 --> 0:27:39.900
Dave
I I would say mostly I mean, so I don't think people thought the system was perfect, but I don't think there was much. 0:27:42.450 --> 0:27:43.570
Dave
Unrestored or. 0:27:45.90 --> 0:27:46.350
Dave
Activism around that. 0:27:48.580 --> 0:27:51.240
Dave
I think there was, I think. 0:27:53.900 --> 0:27:54.40
Dave
Yeah. 0:27:54.40 --> 0:27:58.810
Dave
It's just they're the political system has always been a bit corrupt, I suppose. 0:27:58.820 --> 0:28:8.160
Dave
Or open to all kinds of things, but not not as much and not as umm known as as it is today. Umm. 0:28:9.920 --> 0:28:12.300
Dave
So umm, I would say. 0:28:14.450 --> 0:28:17.280
Dave
To some degree, but not we were. 0:28:17.290 --> 0:28:20.510
Dave
We were busy doing other things, I think rather than focused on that stuff. 0:28:22.510 --> 0:28:37.580
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and it's this, the dissemination of the free love ideology, change, gender relations and the dating practices in the early 1970s. 0:28:37.890 --> 0:28:39.180
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Do you agree with that statement? 0:28:40.180 --> 0:28:41.80
Dave
Yeah. 0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:42.820
Dave
Yes, very much so. 0:28:43.40 --> 0:28:43.670
Dave
Yeah. 0:28:44.450 --> 0:28:44.650
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:28:44.100 --> 0:28:47.100
Dave
Yeah, we did change dating hugely. 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:53.80
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what did dating look like on campus during the 1970s? 0:28:54.830 --> 0:28:56.210
Dave
Alright, there was. 0:28:56.220 --> 0:28:57.630
Dave
There was a lot of party, yeah. 0:29:0.220 --> 0:29:3.400
Dave
I I think it was much more. 0:29:7.740 --> 0:29:14.650
Dave
Kids were looking to *** **** more and and did *** **** more than you know a decade before. 0:29:14.820 --> 0:29:20.940
Dave
Certainly my parents generation the the uh birth control, it changed a lot. 0:29:20.950 --> 0:29:22.940
Dave
The contraception changed all that. 0:29:23.850 --> 0:29:29.430
Dave
Which meant you could be more sexual activity that with, you know, worrying about and. 0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:33.90
Dave
And it was kind of like, well, this is where it should be kind of thing. 0:29:33.100 --> 0:29:33.820
Dave
You know, it wasn't. 0:29:34.130 --> 0:29:40.210
Dave
You went around celebrate, but it was just kind of, but it made things a lot easier. 0:29:40.220 --> 0:29:42.230
Dave
I think people had a lot more fun. 0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:45.870
Dave
I think a lot more hooking up the one on umm, uh. 0:29:46.730 --> 0:29:47.540
Dave
Personally, not me. 0:29:47.550 --> 0:29:51.620
Dave
I had a girlfriend back in Toronto at the time and my secondary. 0:29:51.630 --> 0:29:56.420
Dave
I was married with a host at a mortgage and A and a two week old baby. 0:29:56.430 --> 0:29:59.940
Dave
So it was a lot of partying there for me, but I think it was. 0:30:0.570 --> 0:30:6.470
Dave
I think it definitely had an impact and made, uh, minute kids. 0:30:6.620 --> 0:30:11.790
Dave
So want to enable to some do more. 0:30:13.620 --> 0:30:17.170
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so how did your generation look at family and marriage? 0:30:19.950 --> 0:30:24.400
Dave
I think it was just assumed that you'd eventually get married and have a family. 0:30:24.410 --> 0:30:30.50
Dave
I think that was many of the people I knew that wasn't an overt thing. 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:32.940
Dave
The joke in the 70s was that. 0:30:35.710 --> 0:30:38.860
Dave
At Western lot of women came to get their Mrs degree. 0:30:39.890 --> 0:30:41.280
Dave
They did to find a husband. 0:30:41.610 --> 0:30:44.440
Dave
That was the Western something that way. 0:30:44.450 --> 0:30:46.580
Dave
But I think it was kind of. 0:30:46.790 --> 0:30:51.390
Dave
It was assumed that you'd at some point get married and have a family. 0:30:53.460 --> 0:30:58.460
Dave
That was the only sort of social structure we you you grew up with kind of thing. 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:0.760
Dave
And again at the time. 0:31:2.830 --> 0:31:3.630
Dave
Toronto is fairly. 0:31:4.540 --> 0:31:7.830
Dave
Of pretty, pretty straightforward. 0:31:7.840 --> 0:31:18.990
Dave
We were conservative, I think very conservative in our behavior and there wasn't a lot of I'm non non traditional families and stuff like that. 0:31:19.0 --> 0:31:26.810
Dave
So you came from a background where where you know the mom and dad and you had kids, you know, you had siblings and so on. 0:31:26.820 --> 0:31:33.190
Dave
And that's kind of what you grew up expecting, I think in the 70s, people were looking perhaps to change that later. 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:38.440
Dave
But I think the expectations were, you know, a family house in the suburbs and and whatnot. 0:31:41.40 --> 0:31:41.500
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK. 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:51.470
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we've reached the final portion of the interview, but this portion is completely optional and it does come with the disclaimer. 0:31:52.100 --> 0:31:56.810
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the following section is optional and it concerns sexuality and harassment. 0:31:57.300 --> 0:32:4.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
We appreciate that not everyone will feel comfortable with these questions and we want to reiterate that your participation is entirely voluntary. 0:32:5.240 --> 0:32:10.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You may choose to answer questions that make you feel uncomfortable or skip this section entirely. 0:32:13.170 --> 0:32:13.390
Dave
Yep. 0:32:14.550 --> 0:32:20.300
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment. 0:32:20.410 --> 0:32:25.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe? 0:32:28.420 --> 0:32:33.100
Dave
I'm not not much if I don't think. 0:32:33.950 --> 0:32:38.220
Dave
I don't know that parties were that wild back then. 0:32:40.260 --> 0:32:43.220
Dave
I don't think the universities police that much at all. 0:32:43.230 --> 0:32:46.570
Dave
I mean, if something happened on campus, the police would show up, but it wasn't. 0:32:46.900 --> 0:32:47.450
Dave
Well, I don't know. 0:32:47.460 --> 0:32:49.130
Dave
It was a big thing policing. 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:56.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so our generation is interested in a free love movement. 0:32:56.640 --> 0:33:1.490
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
What was the perception of premarital sex on the university campus in the 1970s? 0:33:1.670 --> 0:33:4.310
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Was it viewed negatively accepted or even encouraged? 0:33:5.180 --> 0:33:6.620
Dave
Yeah, I would definitely encourage them. 0:33:8.60 --> 0:33:8.640
Dave
It was a. 0:33:13.330 --> 0:33:17.510
Dave
Like the world had opened, the doors are opened and you could do what you wanted to do. 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:21.70
Dave
And yeah, so it was a very much a, I mean it wasn't. 0:33:23.550 --> 0:33:25.640
Dave
Radical hippies running around the university campus. 0:33:25.650 --> 0:33:28.850
Dave
But I I think that very much umm was. 0:33:31.290 --> 0:33:34.540
Dave
A birth control and and said open sexuality and so on. 0:33:34.550 --> 0:33:38.410
Dave
And and being able to do what you wanted was very much a thing then. 0:33:40.740 --> 0:33:44.530
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So did members of your parents generation worry about premarital sex? 0:33:45.980 --> 0:33:48.370
Dave
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.820
Dave
But only because you didn't. 0:33:50.860 --> 0:33:52.520
Dave
You didn't want to get the. 0:33:53.550 --> 0:34:0.290
Dave
You didn't want your daughter to get pregnant or your son to get her pregnant, so that was, I think, the premarital sex and and. 0:34:0.960 --> 0:34:7.160
Dave
And having a having a child having a pregnancy were were the big thing that. 0:34:7.170 --> 0:34:13.360
Dave
Not sure they were so worried about having sex was the consequences of that if if you happen to get her pregnant kind of thing. 0:34:13.370 --> 0:34:15.100
Dave
So I was very much concerned of theirs. 0:34:16.740 --> 0:34:24.340
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so that was the last question of the interview and I would love like to thank you so much for your time. Yes. 0:34:24.290 --> 0:34:24.720
Dave
OK. 0:34:24.730 --> 0:34:25.440
Dave
You're welcome. 0:34:25.450 --> 0:34:25.970
Dave
I hope it's helpful. 0:34:27.60 --> 0:34:27.530
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yes. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wilkinson, Dave (Interview) Subject The topic of the resource Testimonial about Western University in London, Ontario during the 1970s, discussing popular culture, the female experience, ideology and generational differences, and sexuality and harassment. Description An account of the resource 2023-11-1 Relation A related resource <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nu7WhJHAE74?si=ey8dEPYmq50jRiFu" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe><br />"Interview with Dave Wikkinson." Life on Campus, November 2, 2023. Video,&nbsp;<br />https://youtu.be/nu7WhJHAE74?si=J1EN0amFbW76fFx7 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, 28 minutes, 18 seconds Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history 1970s Activism Dating Drugs Free Love Gender Popular Music Protest Sexuality Vietnam Western University Person An individual. Birth Date 1950 Birthplace Toronto, Ontario, Canada Schools Attended Western University, Western University, Degree BA Career professional Occupation Physiotherapist Ethnicity English Religious Culture Protestant Christian Devotional Life casual Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wilkinson, Dave Type The nature or genre of the resource person Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Erik Galama Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed G. George Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Erik Galama 0:15 It’s the 21 of October the date or the time I should say is 1:15. I am, I the interviewer Erik Galama And I'm interviewing George over teams for the life on campus project. So let's get started. Alright. So. Ah, where do I put? There's questions. Alright, so is the first topic we are going over is pop culture. So the. The main Category here is or I say the main question is, cultural historians have argued that the television, Hollywood, popular music and consumer culture built around automobiles has created a more integral North American popular culture. Um, as Ottawa or University of Ottawa is a bilingual institution? The purpose is questions are to better understand how anglophones and francophones relate together. So the first question here is um. So there was less electronics in Canada society in the 1970s compared to today. How was a leisure time structured? Or how did OttawaU use students or what do use students do for fun in that time period? George 1:40 That's the question? Erik Galama 1:42 Yeah. So. George 1:42 Do for fun. Erik Galama 1:44 Yep, first one. Yeah, for fun. So what, what was the like? What how was your leisure time structured? What was it built around? Was it? I cause this was television still came more popular around this time. Most people would've had one. So was it built around? That was the other things. George 2:09 (illegible) is always part of society nowadays or at that time too. Think work was also very important leisure time because I didn't have time for leisure time at university and then basically I work and I study. So I didn't have a lot of real quality leisure time available to myself. Erik Galama 2:27 So you would say it's at least was for you was mostly structure around work and there wouldn't be a lot of time just for leisure. George 2:37 Exactly exactly. I had to pay for my education, right? So I've been working basically all the time that I have free and then I have to study as well. So it's. There was a much leisure time, as if we're called leisure time. Erik Galama 2:51 All right, for follow up is that I'm so first the on campus itself. If there was time, to be hanging out and stuff, what would be the most popular spots to people would be hanging out on or off campus? George 3:09 If I hung out It would be. It would have been on campus because it would have been. Probably near where my classes were being held. Would that be with my colleagues waiting them. Talk. Whatever is, are sticking to the corner 30 minutes away or something like that. Not as far as going outside the campus area, no. Erik Galama 3:28 No. OK. George 3:29 No. Erik Galama 3:30 Uh, so next question, I don't know how much is applies to you, but during your years at university, did you ever attend a live musical event? George 3:40 No. Erik Galama 3:40 No. Uh, where's your many are in Ottawa at that time for you to even attend if you wanted to. George 3:49 Don't think I don't really recall like live ones? No, no. Erik Galama 3:53 OK. George 3:53 I think the UFT had a couple of smaller ones like some. like in the cafeteria or something. A small local like a student band or something like that, but that, that, that would be the closest to live entertain. Erik Galama 4:07 All right. Um, so OttawaU uses to be bilingual or is bilingual institution. Um. That. I. Sorry, that question was written in broken English. Oh yeah, so basically because OttawaU is a bilingual institution. There's many. There's a bunch of mixing in francophones and anglophones because they rolled the same university and courses. How much was like how? How much was there mixing between anglophones and francophones? Or were they quite separate apart? George 4:48 That's a good question. What I could tell? I mean my classes were filled with both anglophones and francophones. I don't really think it was really that easy to distinguish the two. They seemed to I I'm I'm basically anglophone, right? So I don't speak French. Maybe. It was a different, but the people I saw met or you got along pretty good together ang francophones. Erik Galama 5:16 Alright, so you wouldn't say that. There was like noticeable like separation between the two groups. George 5:24 I did not see that. No, no. Erik Galama 5:26 OK. Next question actually relate to that is, did anglophones and francophones ever date each other? George 5:35 You'd have to ask them individually, I guess, right? Erik Galama 5:38 Yeah, fair enough. Well, from your own perspectives, did you see that? George 5:41 that I don't, that I don't have any ideas. Erik Galama 5:44 Then it is alright. Um. So in modern terms, to, we used the term party culture to refer to social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the party culture on university of ottawa during the 70s if you could? George 6:01 First, I lived off at, at home, right? So that was like it's now work transit every day. About 2 hours back one way and those days. So I didn't have much time at all to partake in the party culture. Well there was party culture there, but I didn't take part. I just have to the time. Erik Galama 6:04 All right. George 6:17 How? How big it was? I don't really know. But there I know people that that's, that's all they talk about. But that would be the minority. Erik Galama 6:25 OK. Um. Next is, so I during actually when you're at the university, the Vietnam War would be over. But generally speaking, how would you see the student body over like idea of the Vietnam War was it? And like, how prevalent was anywhere that person? So how did the student body when you where there, view the Vietnam War or is the anti-war movement? George 7:00 I don't recall it in my time period at all. Erik Galama 7:03 No. George 7:03 not a lot of university, no. doesn’t seem part of the conversation. But what I saw, maybe there's some people that are more involved in that and talking about it in their groups and even more to. not into the people that are associated with. Erik Galama 7:18 Alright. George 7:20 I think I think it was before my time at university anyway, so. Erik Galama 7:20 I. Yeah, it should have been, but I wasn't sure also how much bleed over there was. George 7:27 Yeah. Erik Galama 7:34 Uh. That I so in the 70s, two rock'n'roll started to become more populous and a lot of art, rock and rollers in the 1960s have been promoted, promoted various forms of protest. How did your parents or see rock roll as a rebellious like former music? Or was it just a form of popular music? George 8:02 They didn't like it. I thought it was really poor quality and looking like the old music which people involved, right or technical skills and stuff like that. They didn't like it. I don't think they looked at as being rebellious. They just they'd like it. Erik Galama 8:17 So they. George 8:17 The other was more like, but then was just yelling and screaming. That's really what it was. I don't think they really think about it being rebellious music or stuff with that. Erik Galama 8:27 So they so they never thought it was rebellious, more as a they just didn't like the sound of it. Would that be correct? George 8:36 I would say I was. I would say that's what it was. Yes, it's not what they grew up with and when it was such a different thing. Yeah. You recognize that people look into that time so. Erik Galama 8:46 Yep. Um, follow-up is so so some culture voices In the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent did recreational drugs availability on campus occur during 1970s? So how common were drugs basically? George 9:07 Was there but. sorts of the people I hung around with. It wasn't not really there. So there's probably a certain sub segments of the student body and not for the cluster body as well, but. If it was not they. Very, very minimal from what I saw. Erik Galama 9:25 Alright, for reference, would you say it's be more as prevalent or less prevalent today, like in just general cult like public? And like culture. George 9:39 Probably probably less, I would say. Erik Galama 9:42 That's alright. George 9:43 Yeah, I think so. But it's it's. It's a tough question. Erik Galama 9:50 Next one sort of relating to the last question was. So in the 70s. psychedelics were coming more common use, to what extent did the students on campus use psychedelic drugs. Or if any? George 10:06 I I. I made it. I've been really answered that question. I mean, I know where stuff out there, but how much I've, you know, I I can't even take a guess at that that would be. Erik Galama 10:12 Yeah. George 10:17 Wrong thing to do. It's so small, small writes up, but maybe there's a whole segment of this to the population that was very heavily involved in it, but I would not in that group. Erik Galama 10:26 OK. Alright, so that is the first section done, which is the impact of popular culture. So this section section we're gonna get onto is the female experience. So as the main question there is. Sorry is. For culture, historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave of feminism. This is part of the counterculture movement and women in the 19 early 1970s sought to breakdown gender barriers during this. Does this argument with your experience, or does this argument resonated with your experience on the campus during the 70s? Um and also basically, do you believe that? There was a large or a noticeable feminist movement on campus. George 11:31 Hmm. Either way, there was some of that you wouldn't say is like really noticeable anything, but you can see people becoming more sensitive to that whole notation. Erik Galama 11:46 Uh, so would you say? It was more prevalent. Like the first few years there or did became more and more common. At the later you're. George 11:57 I don't. I was only there for three years. I was not a perfectionist student like some people, so I can't really. I wanted to try to answer that one. Erik Galama 12:02 Alright. So you wouldn't have any idea if, uh, like so for like the first year is there, you have no clue if was more common than when you're by the time you graduated or left? George 12:15 Yeah, like that was there to study them, went home to work, right. So I'm not socializing with a lot of people at the university, so I can't really property answer that question. Right. I didn't notice. I, I could. I can’t answer that. I didn’t notice the difference. Erik Galama 12:24 All right. OK. And also follow-up to that. The time before you went to university, how would you say it was also common before that? George 12:42 I would say it was about the same. Yeah, that's sort of run that time period, yeah. Erik Galama 12:45 All right. So in your own words, what did feminism like mean to Canada in the early 70s? George 12:59 It was just think it was trying to. Have recalled by of the the sexist or and recognition of the difference, but building equality. Erik Galama 13:10 Alright. George 13:10 A little more respect for each other, I guess is what it comes down to really. Erik Galama 13:14 Hmm. Uh. OK. For two is so in the 70s. Words are programs, apartments, clubs that were at were women were less. Um, represent or less or more and less of compared to other programs. George 13:35 Alright, if I look at the programs that I was in, I'd say it was a. It wasn't really that much difference. I mean, maybe a little bit less women than men, but not really significant amount. Erik Galama 13:47 What program? George 13:48 Such steps, although my studies right, I mean that they go to school to study, didn't go there to going join clubs and stuff like that and have the time for it had to work for my fees to pay processors right to renting the building and stuff. So all I could talk about is my classroom and the classrooms were. Erik Galama 13:53 Yeah. Yeah. George 14:03 Not much difference over people, even distributed. Maybe some less females than males, but not not a significant amount. Erik Galama 14:10 Alright, I around. I would program were you in. So I can just get George, so I. George 14:22 Commerce, commerce. Erik Galama 14:22 Commerce, OK. George 14:24 Yeah. Erik Galama 14:24 So you'd say commerce was around a 50/50 split? George 14:28 Yeah, a little bit less than 50/50, but it wasn't. You're not looking like 80/20 or anything like that no. Erik Galama 14:31 Alright. OK, so it wasn't, it was quite evenly split originally not like a major difference. George 14:39 No, I think it's rounded time when. When we started getting more into those fields like we're talking about the late 70s. Erik Galama 14:44 Hmm. George 14:47 Not the beginning. At the moment, it's the movement already been underway for a while and. Erik Galama 14:52 OK, I. So you said you you're not sure about our programs you at all, so you wouldn't be able to tell for like engineering or you sent that? George 15:02 No, no. I would like to talk about other programs. That's what I came to study and that's basically where I stayed. Erik Galama 15:08 OK. Uh. So then it is for that's done for feminism. Next topic is on ideology, and like generational differences. So many question here is historians have written a lot about what they called the counterculture revolution. That meaning means that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents, revolution or generation. To what extent did people in your cultural or social circles seem cells as need to mobilize for more? Just for more just society and the better world. George 15:57 We don't know the like like, you know, I think that I think that this historians trying to write something on paper so they could get their this is approved. Erik Galama 15:57 Yes. George 16:05 Uh, I think that there was a lot of conversation about. You know the way it was with our parents, right? And the way we wanted to have. Erik Galama 16:12 Hmm. George 16:14 I wouldn't hold like a rebellion and stuff like that. I think that just overstating it let me go to the movement for it. I guess in general, but because a lot of people realize that, you know the. Or our parents generation. They had a lot of good stuff going for them and we need to be changed in certain ways, but. You know, it's just like it's like any generation. I mean, you talked about my generation. You gonna talk about the Ask the same question about your generation and you'll find it. It's basically the same answers. It all changed, right? I mean, every generation wants to change from the preceding generation. Doesn't mean that the generation thinks that preceding generation was. Erik Galama 16:39 Hmm. George 16:49 Was bad or wrong, it's just a different way. They want to look at thinking different way before every setback maybe be more open mind or something and you know, next generation gonna say maybe we should be more close minded. It says it's a cycle that goes through. Erik Galama 16:49 Hmm. George 17:02 So yeah, that was part of the conversation. Erik Galama 17:02 OK. So you said it be part conversation. You just wouldn't say it be like a dramatic change. It was more smaller changes. George 17:10 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's more realistic. It was there. People talk about it and and stuff like that, but it wasn't getting into rebellion. Finding stuff like the like the refresh. Wanna stay sometimes? No, I don't think that's what the case at all. At least not with environment that I was in. Erik Galama 17:12 OK. OK. So yeah, so far for that is so to. What extent, I guess, did your generation believe in your parents like ideals of gender, family and dating? That's like the cultural ideals of your parents. How much did they believe in that? George 17:50 I think there's. That's where a lot of the changes were basically around that. I mean, it's generally more open to add more openness to meeting and stuff like that and less stricter rules and that kind of stuff, so. Looking for more freaking like that? Like I think they probably there from their parents as same same time. What are the same to my parents talking about their parents? There's they were rebellious as well right so. Erik Galama 18:02 Right. OK. So you would say that there was. The main change is at least were towards dating and. That idea instead of actually, yeah, that's what you said would be. So they made changes were towards dating and compared to their parents. George 18:35 Yeah, dating and and and even like that. I think with the. Try to get into your era of the divorce at that time. Divorce of becoming very popular. I think that was a big difference too. Erik Galama 18:45 Yeah. George 18:46 Your parents didn't really believe in divorce, although my mother said that people can't live together why should they but a lot of other people. We're very different than that. Erik Galama 18:56 OK. George 18:56 There were no days that that time started being like you doesn't work just. It also goes up someplace else. Erik Galama 19:03 Alright. So looking back on the 70s, what like aspect of Canadian society do you see as the most? Broken and in the need of fixing. George 19:26 Broken in the need of shifting. Erik Galama 19:28 Yeah. So that could be, um, how? Like women how are perceived. It could be also towards gender any it could be to. You it's quite broad, so basically any idea of part of like any culture or society? George 19:46 Yeah, I I see. I wish it would be (illegible) if in this situation right, you don't know how they were being treated that that was, in my view becoming. Erik Galama 19:54 Hmm. George 19:59 More upfront coming up more that time already. Erik Galama 20:06 OK. George 20:06 Is what? What? What story of that is because it was before I went to university. But before I went to university, and that's for sure. We lived in Ottawa still at that time and. They're going to triplex. And inside us moved in Inuit people that they were locating people. Yeah, at that time also, there's been very, very unfair because they cannot at all adapt to society for the very mean and very tough on them. And that's that was before I was able to go to university. But that sort of started coming through little more university as well-being aware of those kind of things and other people were more aware of that as well. So for me, I think I was probably more. Noticeable than other things that people talk about. Erik Galama 20:48 Alright, so you so you say like the main progressing that was noticeable appeal. Don't try to talk about be like how I Native Americans were treated at the time? George 21:01 Yeah, that's what I was really starting to come out or more and more that and now it's really out everywhere there. That time I notices that are coming out, I would aware of it that I'm already the schools and stuff like that so. Erik Galama 21:06 Hmm. Hmm. George 21:13 It's like to me that was. An injustice in society. Something had to be fixed at that moment. Erik Galama 21:19 That actually started to leads into actual one and or sort of answers. So next follow-up was. So what's what like forms of injustice were common in the in Canadian society at the time? George 21:34 What was it that in in the first people that was an injustice that a lot of way? Erik Galama 21:34 So. George 21:40 Uh. Was there anything else? Erik Galama 21:44 Yeah, like, would you say there was any, like, racial industrious. So towards African Americans? Or are also Asians. Was there like injustice towards those groups? George 21:56 I don't think there. There would have been some, yes, but not large amount, but not like we're hearing about nowadays. Sometimes I think Canada in that time United States was very bad, but Canada was nothing like what I notice, added states at that time. Erik Galama 22:04 So. M. George 22:15 Told them more, got along better, right? Erik Galama 22:15 Uh. George 22:23 I would say United States was really bad, but in Canada it was not as bad. Wouldn't be the way it was, but it wasn't really bad. Erik Galama 22:23 Yeah. So you would say it wasn't perfect, like there was some injustice, but it wasn't as common or as prevalent as it was in the United States. George 22:41 Oh, no, wait. No way at all, no. Erik Galama 22:43 No. OK. George 22:44 No. Erik Galama 22:46 I and also so how did you feel about the political system of Canada, the democracy that we have? Did you see that as fair and they represent the resistant rights? And needs. George 23:02 No. Erik Galama 23:05 So you elaborate on this, so I I was not sure what Prime Minister was at the times. George 23:14 Not sure exactly what that time either, but. Structure the break back to that time at the politics at that time and the. Erik Galama 23:17 But. George 23:22 Means. I don't think it was much different than it is now. I get politician to make promises. They break promises, and sometimes people get a little more annoyed than other times. Erik Galama 23:25 This. George 23:35 But I don't think it was anything really radically different at that time. Maybe. Erik Galama 23:35 OK. George 23:41 Of course it made a little more respect for each other in the political world, but. I don't know if that's where the problem too is in the old days there wasn't that much. News coverage. Of that kind of thing as yours now, now everything gets put on Internet and stuff like that on Facebook and Twitter and whatever you have those days, which is really on TV and newspaper, so doesn't mean that we're hearing everything going on like this. What the few tools. Would decide what to make public, available for people. Nowadays it's a whole other world, right? And we applied our world to those days. Maybe they're the same. I don't know. Or maybe they are different. Erik Galama 24:22 No. So would you say that there is like less political polarization compared to today? At in the 70s. George 24:40 I don't know. I can't really say. I almost want to say no, but. Not sure if that's a fair answer or not. Erik Galama 24:47 Alright. Uh, yeah. you also mentioned, too that news and stuff was. You will get it on. You would just be the TV. You get it? How much did you think? Like the TV played a part in, like which political parties, like the view of political parties to general public? George 25:11 Which is. You got the TV. You got the radio and got the newspapers, right. And maybe some magazines. And that was really the only source of. Erik Galama 25:17 Hmm. George 25:20 Really information. Unless you were lucky enough to you, that meet these people are going to Parliament and listen to people in Parliament. I think the main form really was either. TV or radio? Not so much newspaper. Erik Galama 25:36 OK. George 25:37 Radio at that time because you had a good radio station. Was not like modern radio station, but it was more. It's like an all news station, but. It was more like through news and in-depth reporting and stuff like that, and they would always have, you know, politics and stuff like that and interview them on on that station. So that that was good. So you can really get at least from the (illegible) peoples point of view what they're thinking about. Erik Galama 25:52 Hmm. Alright. Um. So so let's little bit is so the last. Sorry, I lost the main question. Is going to be mainly talking about the free love move, but but also along with. Changes in like gender, relationship and. Ideology. So the main question here is cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill and legalization of abortion and. The dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relationships and dating practices in the early 1970s. How much would you agree with that statement? George 26:52 Close from the 1970s right to the OT, but I would say that the other was, yeah, influence it for sure. Erik Galama 26:55 Yeah. So would you say that? What, like I, was those three things I mentioned. So was the birth control pills, the legalization of abortion, and the increased prevalence of free love ideology. I was just three things. What would you say most change the. But like dating practices at the time. George 27:26 I think they all relate. We've got that right. We think about the first controlled and even get abortions and. Erik Galama 27:28 Hmm. George 27:32 Yeah, it's, it's it's. I think they're all the same. I think I'll just relate to each other. Well, one cause it together they should. So they just go like a unison. There not. There not like one and another another. Like this. Sort of. They roll together almost. Erik Galama 27:48 All right. the follow-up to that to is so. Um, how? As you can describe how did dating look like on campus? George 28:02 There really wasn't there that much about. I mean that's that's seen teachers and students dating and making out in the cafeteria and stuff with. That's that's that's that's a fact. That's not a joke, that's a fact. I'm. You know other people, they, they they dated and sometimes they would have lived together and stuff like that. You had more than maybe in years prior to that. So it was a little more. Openness about that kind of. Erik Galama 28:31 OK. Um. Start at so you say it be more open to previous years. Crooked. George 28:42 I'm sorry. Say again. Erik Galama 28:42 Uh, you would say it would be more open compared to previous years. Yep. George 28:46 Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. Erik Galama 28:48 Would you say it became less open as the years like in later years? George 28:55 I would say no, no, it would just became more accepted. Right. So it wouldn't more it wouldn't as in your faces, it was at that time it just. Erik Galama 29:04 Hmm. George 29:05 Or part of a society. This is more accepted nowadays. Erik Galama 29:07 OK. Um nursing on tight is how did your generation view family and marriage? So how common was it for people to want to start a family? George 29:27 I think that was part of the norm, right? It wasn't. And people are married. They want to get married. They were there. Some people that were just wanted to live together, but marriage was still an institution at that time. People saw that and they went for like a normal weddings and stuff. And most of them want to children as well. Yeah, so. So that time at all think that had. I think nowadays I sort of breaking down where should say breaking up where. Yeah you have marriage but the the wedding itself is not as important as you used to be and a lot simpler and. Maybe more practical or more meaning collectively that way in then large, expensive weddings. Erik Galama 30:08 OK. Um. So you would say be it was still essentially the same like level compared to previous generations where people still wanted to buy the same appeal. Also want to get married and start families. George 30:26 Yeah, me maybe a little bit less, but I don't think it had done. I would say it was significantly less. Erik Galama 30:31 OK. And then the final section, yeah, if you don't want talk about, we don't have to. It's talks about sexual harassment and or sexual sexuality and also sexual harassment. That if you want to talk about, we can if you don't want to, you don't have to. George 30:51 Pass that one. You're gonna do there. You don't want her to pass it. Erik Galama 30:55 Alright. Alright, person, if you don't wanna do it, I'm fine that. And then I think that is all the questions. So that is I'm gonna stop the recording. George 31:08 Yeah. Erik Galama 31:09 And that's gonna be the end. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource G. George (Interview) Description An account of the resource Testimonial bout University of Ottawa during the end of the 1970s Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-21 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history 1970s Dating Gender Generational Differences Leisure Marriage Race Sexuality Social Justice University of Ottawa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lafrance, Elizabeth Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Turpin, Nicole Location The location of the interview Ottawa, Ontario (Via Teams) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, so I'm Elizabeth Lafrance interviewing. Nicole Turpin, about the Life on campus project in the 70s. 0:0:12.980 --> 0:0:13.700
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um. 0:0:17.750 --> 0:0:20.560
Elizabeth Lafrance
And so one of the main themes that we're trying to like,
Um, delve into is the impact of popular culture, and so the main question for this part that we're trying to like get into is cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music, and a consumer culture around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. Ottawa was a bilingual institution, and we want to better understand how anglophones and francophones are related. Together. 0:0:52.680 --> 0:1:3.950
Elizabeth Lafrance
They were less at electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s. How was your leisure time structured or what did you? What did you do with students do for fun and then 1970s? 0:1:5.580 --> 0:1:8.790
Nicole
I guess the biggest piece was we spent time together. 0:1:10.230 --> 0:1:14.940
Nicole
There was definitely a separation between the Francophones and the Anglophones. 0:1:16.360 --> 0:1:17.300
Nicole
In first year. 0:1:18.60 --> 0:1:23.300
Nicole
It was more because there was a lot of francophones that were coming from outside of Ottawa. 0:1:24.50 --> 0:1:26.590
Nicole
And did not speak a lot of English. 0:1:27.940 --> 0:1:44.670
Nicole
So there really was a big separation. I was actually in the middle because I came from Ottawa. I was completely bilingual and in sports because I had a fixed and kinesiology courses. 0:1:45.330 --> 0:2:1.190
Nicole
All sports, all the competitive sports, was mixed together. So there was a social circle that was created that didn't exist on campus part from sports. That's the sports part. 0:2:2.390 --> 0:2:2.570
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:2:2.370 --> 0:2:8.690
Nicole
So for there, that's what. That's where we hung around more and more with both Anglophone and Francophone. 0:2:11.910 --> 0:2:14.60
Elizabeth Lafrance
So did you not have a problem like? 0:2:14.750 --> 0:2:21.150
Elizabeth Lafrance
Between each, like anglophone or francophone, where you completely in the middle? Or did you find yourself going to like one side? 0:2:22.140 --> 0:2:26.410
Nicole
Being a Franco Ontarian is very different than a quebecker. 0:2:27.360 --> 0:2:32.640
Nicole
And because I've lived all my life in a bilingual environment, most of my life. 0:2:52.680 --> 0:2:53.280
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:2:33.400 --> 0:3:3.690
Nicole
I was used to it and all of my friends that went to university with me from Ottawa, we would switch back and forth in French and English without even thinking about it. As soon as there was an anglophone in the group, we would switch all the English for that person because the anglophone never even had thought of thinking or talking in French. But the francophones we were all used to it. So that's how we worked. 0:3:4.890 --> 0:3:5.260
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:3:6.780 --> 0:3:12.340
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, what were the most popular hangout spots on and off of campus? 0:3:13.310 --> 0:3:13.690
Nicole
Again. 0:3:13.770 --> 0:3:15.420
Nicole
The first year was pretty quiet. 0:3:16.240 --> 0:3:39.300
Nicole
Residence was always a popular place and there was a room, a big room, a meeting room, and there was, I can't remember if there was alcohol on campus or not. I have no memory of that. But it was a big there. there was a lot of music and a lot of dancing, and there was always. You always started there as a group. 0:3:42.740 --> 0:3:43.360
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:3:40.580 --> 0:3:48.780
Nicole
But we were underage at that time, so it there was a lot less alcohol in those first years. 0:3:50.80 --> 0:4:4.370
Nicole
It's yet to be 21, so it was just kind of like in and out. And yes, there was alcohol everywhere, but it wasn't, you know, in a lot of places. We just aren't allowed to go. We couldn't get in. We looked too young. So that's thing. 0:4:6.720 --> 0:4:13.700
Elizabeth Lafrance
And when you like, we're graduating. Was it more like focused on alcohol? Like, whenever you'd hang out? 0:4:14.890 --> 0:4:16.110
Nicole
It depended on the group. 0:4:17.200 --> 0:4:22.950
Nicole
We, I hung around very much with the Sports Group, with the athletes. 0:4:23.650 --> 0:4:43.960
Nicole
So most people was mostly alcohol, but I, I knew some people who were completely into drugs as whatever you wanted was there on campus and some some people got really deep into it and even some of my friends that I knew and kind of stayed away from that. 0:4:45.20 --> 0:4:48.330
Nicole
But there was anything you wanted on campus. 0:4:49.360 --> 0:4:49.950
Nicole
Really was. 0:4:52.320 --> 0:4:56.840
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, did you attend any live music events during your university years? 0:4:57.180 --> 0:5:4.780
Nicole
Oh my God. All the time dancing really was something everybody did. Like you went somewhere and you dance. 0:5:14.120 --> 0:5:14.530
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:5:5.410 --> 0:5:26.930
Nicole
For hours and hours and hours. And you, you. You did it like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. You know you did it here every night and 1st year was quieter again. And I lived at home for the first year. So I, you know, of course, my parents were still controlling a little bit more. And I lived in Aylmer in that point. So it was far. 0:5:27.640 --> 0:5:49.960
Nicole
And so that was made a difference in first year. It was a lot quieter after that. I moved into an apartment in Sandy Hill. So that changed everything. I was living on my own with a couple of girlfriends, and life was a lot busier socially. There was always a party going on any night. There was always something for you. 0:5:51.180 --> 0:5:59.30
Nicole
On campus, around campus, the bars around the campus down in-in-the in the market, were always open. 0:6:0.10 --> 0:6:4.790
Nicole
And so yeah, depending on what you need to do that night, there was always something. 0:6:7.980 --> 0:6:20.230
Elizabeth Lafrance
UOttawa was a bilingual institution. How linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s. Did the Francophones and anglophones enrol in the same university courses and participate in the same clubs? 0:6:20.620 --> 0:6:22.580
Nicole
OK, so in those days. 0:6:23.420 --> 0:6:29.280
Nicole
Thou shall not cross that line. The courses were only in French and only in English. 0:6:30.10 --> 0:6:32.370
Nicole
I was actually the first student. 0:6:33.750 --> 0:6:48.260
Nicole
That thought that and I ended up sitting in the Dean's office and arguing the point. Why should I not be allowed to go into the French course? Or the English course, depending on which teacher or what time? 0:6:49.650 --> 0:6:54.360
Nicole
Work better for me. But you had to be bilingual to do that. 0:6:55.330 --> 0:7:0.350
Nicole
And I've got they let me do it. And it was not. 0:7:1.110 --> 0:7:7.260
Nicole
It was extremely rare where the courses were together at all. It really was two schools. 0:7:7.920 --> 0:7:10.280
Nicole
On one French side and one English side. 0:7:10.880 --> 0:7:18.730
Nicole
We did, however, socialize a lot together. As we got older and got to know each other. 0:7:20.380 --> 0:7:30.860
Nicole
But to start, it was very much the English type and very much the French type to the point when not where you started or when I was there, we had to do a language test. 0:7:32.310 --> 0:7:32.480
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:7:32.190 --> 0:7:33.470
Nicole
Or second language test. 0:7:34.200 --> 0:7:39.470
Nicole
And most people, the second language was much lower. 0:7:40.80 --> 0:7:45.740
Nicole
So you would take whatever level, but you were mandated to take a second language course. 0:7:47.190 --> 0:7:53.400
Nicole
I was a keener and being who I was and how I was, I came from a French private school. We were really very, very bilingual. I ended up taking the French sides French and the English sides English of Anthology of English verse, which was horrible. But that's how bilingual I was. 0:8:12.590 --> 0:8:12.980
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:8:12.430 --> 0:8:19.880
Nicole
But there was a lot of francophones who could, and anglophones who did not speak a word of the other language or barely. 0:8:21.150 --> 0:8:21.510
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:8:22.460 --> 0:8:27.420
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um did Anglophones and francophones date each other during the 1970s. 0:8:27.470 --> 0:8:29.710
Nicole
Ohhhhh the French girls are popular. 0:8:31.630 --> 0:8:39.830
Nicole
There's no question about that. And very quickly everybody started dating and we mixed very quickly. 0:8:41.120 --> 0:9:1.410
Nicole
We were all very close to both the groups, especially in in the groupings, because again, as I said, the sports were worked integrated. So we-we-we got to know each other a lot. It was not like that for a lot of other places. But in our department it really was mixed. 0:9:4.760 --> 0:9:7.750
Elizabeth Lafrance
So how did, like, you being a part of sport change your experince? 0:9:8.850 --> 0:9:15.80
Elizabeth Lafrance
Taking sports, like, change how you ,like, experienced university. 0:9:16.230 --> 0:9:19.480
Nicole
The sports how did it change? Where am I? 0:9:20.980 --> 0:9:21.740
Nicole
Uh. 0:9:21.350 --> 0:9:23.300
Elizabeth Lafrance
No, that was like that's all the script but. 0:9:23.230 --> 0:9:26.600
Nicole
Oh, it's not the- OK, how did I integrate? 0:9:27.580 --> 0:9:35.850
Elizabeth Lafrance
Or like how did you been a part of like sports clubs instead of change how, like your social life like was? 0:9:36.130 --> 0:9:39.330
Nicole
It was very different because I was so fluent. 0:9:40.910 --> 0:9:48.630
Nicole
So whatever sport I wanted to go into, it gravitated different sports gravitated different culture like different groupings, whether it was francophones for certain sports, like volleyball, it was francophone. 0:9:58.130 --> 0:10:0.510
Nicole
And basketball was anglophone. 0:10:1.190 --> 0:10:24.490
Nicole
That was their sports. And so again, I got to do both, but most of the others didn't. But because we were started getting to know each other so much in those sports, and there were others that everybody joined in and you would hear both languages running at the same time. And on the- in the same sentence. 0:10:25.680 --> 0:10:31.210
Nicole
As people got more and more integrated into each other, wanting to be social with each other. 0:10:32.140 --> 0:10:37.190
Nicole
And so that-that created a much more cultural group. 0:10:39.90 --> 0:10:39.820
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:10:41.260 --> 0:10:53.850
Elizabeth Lafrance
We used the term party culture to refer to the social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the part the party culture on the University of Ottawa campus during the 1970s? 0:10:54.740 --> 0:10:56.110
Nicole
I have. It was wild. 0:10:57.170 --> 0:10:59.790
Nicole
It was. You have to realize that. 0:11:0.510 --> 0:11:17.380
Nicole
We had been wild. I was coming from private boarding school girls, private school for five years. No, four years. Sorry, that was crazy all of a sudden, it- and you were away from home. Most of half the groupings were in residence. 0:11:18.70 --> 0:11:18.600
Nicole
Um. 0:11:19.260 --> 0:11:19.590
Nicole
Yeah. 0:11:20.460 --> 0:11:22.810
Nicole
There was a a lot of- 0:11:23.710 --> 0:11:28.660
Nicole
Every night girls and boys, there were some heavy partying in those days. 0:11:30.170 --> 0:11:42.180
Nicole
And depending on how important your-your class and your report card or your marks was it, it changed. I mean there was this big crazy time and then everybody kind of. 0:11:42.890 --> 0:11:47.620
Nicole
Who bought a bit realized. Oh, wait a SEC. We actually have to go to classes and we actually have to. 0:11:48.230 --> 0:11:55.700
Nicole
Graduate. So there was this ebb and flow, but it was it really was, wild. Anything, everything. 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:2.520
Nicole
And at the same time, it was the first generation of women who we went on the pill. 0:12:3.870 --> 0:12:4.300
Nicole
That. 0:12:4.50 --> 0:12:4.400
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm. 0:12:9.200 --> 0:12:10.10
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um. 0:12:12.230 --> 0:12:14.700
Elizabeth Lafrance
What did the student body think about the? 0:12:15.870 --> 0:12:16.190
Nicole
Review. 0:12:15.780 --> 0:12:16.510
Elizabeth Lafrance
Vietnam War. 0:12:17.90 --> 0:12:17.530
Nicole
Nothing. 0:12:18.350 --> 0:12:19.470
Nicole
It didn't exist. 0:12:20.290 --> 0:12:30.240
Nicole
You know what did it? Did it? It was barely mentioned. No interest was what was, though hugely was the FLQ and what that is. 0:12:32.850 --> 0:12:33.50
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:12:31.730 --> 0:12:33.780
Nicole
So that tends to back. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:35.910
Nicole
When we went into. 0:12:38.300 --> 0:12:45.560
Nicole
The FLQ took some English people and ended up they wanted to separate the-the-the province. 0:12:46.730 --> 0:12:53.500
Nicole
It was. It was violent. There's someone that was killed. You'll have to research that part. The FLQ. 0:12:54.170 --> 0:12:57.780
Nicole
That we talked about all the time because. 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:4.30
Nicole
In grade12 and 13, when it happened, that's when I was in it. 0:13:4.690 --> 0:13:5.580
Nicole
We had. 0:13:6.330 --> 0:13:28.670
Nicole
Um students in our school that their parents were cabinet ministers and representatives, and we actually had RCMP on campus in our schools for weeks and months so that no one would be kidnapped or that there was no Violence. 0:13:29.370 --> 0:13:34.80
Nicole
But we lived through the FLQ, but Vietnam nothing. Not a word. 0:13:34.970 --> 0:13:38.0
Nicole
I have no memory of everybody talking about that part. 0:13:39.260 --> 0:13:40.190
Nicole
It was more the FLQ. 0:13:39.780 --> 0:13:40.260
Elizabeth Lafrance
So. 0:13:49.660 --> 0:13:52.820
Nicole
It it it warranted a lot of discussions. 0:13:53.510 --> 0:14:9.30
Nicole
It talked about the French identity, Canadian identity, how to integrate French and English. So we we had a lot of discussions with the Francophones and Anglophones talking about identity. 0:14:9.810 --> 0:14:11.740
Nicole
That we did a lot of discussions about. 0:14:12.540 --> 0:14:16.390
Nicole
Um, but not nothing about the Vietnam War. 0:14:17.100 --> 0:14:20.60
Nicole
Not with that English French dynamic. 0:14:21.80 --> 0:14:21.620
Elizabeth Lafrance Hmm. 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:36.840
Elizabeth Lafrance
Rock'n'roll artists in that 1960s had promoted various forms of protests. Did your, did your parents think of rock'n'roll as rebellious or just a form of popular music? 0:14:38.430 --> 0:14:41.120
Nicole
I was the eldest of seven kids. 0:14:41.980 --> 0:14:47.550
Nicole
And and so I was the first one that walked out the door kind of thing and started. 0:14:49.380 --> 0:14:50.640
Nicole
But they were very. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.850
Nicole
Confident about me as a person and I wasn't into drugs. 0:14:57.550 --> 0:14:58.660
Nicole
So they kind of. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:9.270
Nicole
I mean, they'd comment about it. I can remember my boyfriend at the time. His parents were appalled because he had started letting his hair grow, and that was like. 0:15:10.60 --> 0:15:14.30
Nicole
A huge challenge to parents was the boys having long hair. 0:15:15.0 --> 0:15:25.940
Nicole
When you think about it now it's hilarious. But in those days the boys hair was long and getting longer. That was absolutely the rock influence. 0:15:26.930 --> 0:15:32.400
Nicole
Not the big drug thing because like we skirted it, we didn't really get into it. 0:15:33.670 --> 0:15:39.410
Nicole
Our parents weren't as worried, but I know other parents were. They were definitely worried about it. 0:15:41.830 --> 0:15:44.510
Elizabeth Lafrance
So would you say that your parents were like, strict? 0:15:45.630 --> 0:15:45.920
Nicole
I'm. 0:15:50.890 --> 0:15:51.150
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:15:47.610 --> 0:15:52.40
Nicole
You have to remember when we're talking about, you know, expectations for children. 0:15:53.80 --> 0:16:4.880
Nicole
Pretty clear, but then I moved out so I only stayed a year with my parents and then I-I was gone after that they they had no say over me, really. I mean, I didn't. 0:16:6.160 --> 0:16:11.220
Nicole
I didn't change my behavior. I still saw them regularly. I still, you know, went over and. 0:16:12.380 --> 0:16:19.880
Nicole
Got fed as often as I could because I lived in the same city. I mean, I lived close. My parents were in in Alymer at that point, so. 0:16:20.570 --> 0:16:22.270
Nicole
It it wasn't as obvious. 0:16:27.660 --> 0:16:27.920
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:16:22.950 --> 0:16:38.400
Nicole
What did i do that they didn't have a clue what I was doing, really, you know? But they had my younger brother and sisters, they were already into it too. So they were concerned. But I think they trusted us to make good choices at the time. 0:16:41.150 --> 0:16:53.130
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, some youth culture voices in the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent where recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.190
Nicole
Anything you wanted, you. 0:16:56.530 --> 0:17:9.370
Nicole
I know that I didn't. My sister got into heavy like, i’ll let you know, acid and everything she was into absolutely everything. And she could get it anyway she wanted. 0:17:10.250 --> 0:17:11.830
Nicole
It really was there. 0:17:12.810 --> 0:17:21.380
Nicole
But again, I didn't so, but I knew it was. And me and my husband always talked about. He was stoned during his university. He has no memory of. 0:17:22.130 --> 0:17:29.90
Nicole
Most of the University of the social, so it depended on what you were doing at the time. But yes, it was there. Absolutely. 0:17:34.460 --> 0:17:36.60
Elizabeth Lafrance
During the 1970s. 0:17:36.980 --> 0:17:51.780
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, and you don't have to answer this question, but during 1970s speak about tripping and taking psychedelics to reach a higher state of consciousness. To what extent did students on campus use hallucinogens? 0:17:52.260 --> 0:17:56.360
Nicole
I knew they were, but because I wasn't in it, I don't know. 0:17:58.340 --> 0:17:59.360
Nicole
I mean, I heard about it. 0:18:0.0 --> 0:18:5.330
Nicole
People talk about it, but I didn't do any of it, so I was afraid of drugs actually most. 0:18:5.990 --> 0:18:13.170
Nicole
Really was? I just didn't trust people. Just little Baggies walking around saying here, you know, I just didn't trust it. 0:18:14.130 --> 0:18:14.470
Nicole
So. 0:18:15.540 --> 0:18:18.370
Elizabeth Lafrance
But you were like around that kind of like culture. 0:18:18.150 --> 0:18:24.210
Nicole
Yes, sometimes I was, yeah. Depending on the party, there was always somebody that had a bad a baggie of something. 0:18:25.820 --> 0:18:27.0
Nicole
And you could always get it. 0:18:27.670 --> 0:18:28.180
Nicole
But. 0:18:29.270 --> 0:18:30.880
Nicole
Our group was pretty. 0:18:31.890 --> 0:18:34.530
Nicole
Quiet compared for the for drugs anyway. 0:18:35.950 --> 0:18:43.490
Nicole
So we just kind of stayed away from it and there was groups that that's all they did, they were always stoned in class and out of class. 0:18:44.260 --> 0:18:45.120
Nicole
They they were. 0:18:45.840 --> 0:19:1.200
Nicole
Fine, because I did take quite a lot of our classes outside of the Phys Ed department. Right? You still have sociology. You still had language. You still have other classes where we were mixed with other departments, and there was always somebody that was so gone. 0:19:1.830 --> 0:19:2.530
Nicole
Sat there and. 0:19:4.940 --> 0:19:5.170
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:19:4.350 --> 0:19:5.750
Nicole
Don't know why they were there, really. 0:19:11.360 --> 0:19:11.530
Nicole
Yeah. 0:19:9.190 --> 0:19:13.140
Elizabeth Lafrance
So this is like the second section, the female experience. 0:19:14.630 --> 0:19:14.910
Elizabeth Lafrance
Uh. 0:19:14.10 --> 0:19:16.960
Nicole
You don't have to read the whole question if you don't want to. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.500
Elizabeth Lafrance
I'll probably do it for like the transcript. 0:19:20.530 --> 0:19:22.0
Nicole
OK, it helps. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.730
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um cultural historians have written a lot about. 0:19:27.470 --> 0:19:44.800
Elizabeth Lafrance
What they call second wave feminism guy as per of the culture, cultural movement, women during the early 1970s sought to breakdown gender barriers. What does this argument resonate with your experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the early 70s? 0:19:49.430 --> 0:19:54.920
Nicole
The biggest change in our world, and it was massive really. 0:19:56.390 --> 0:20:0.640
Nicole
All of a sudden, all you need to do was take the pill, you didn't get Pregnant. 0:20:1.480 --> 0:20:7.10
Nicole
And that completely changed their lives as a group of women and. 0:20:7.920 --> 0:20:9.890
Nicole
Most of my friends, we were all in the pit. 0:20:11.780 --> 0:20:16.350
Nicole
And in those days, those pills could have worked on a horse. 0:20:17.260 --> 0:20:22.90
Nicole
And not getting pregnant. It was so, so strong it was. 0:20:23.270 --> 0:20:31.810
Nicole
Crazy the level of of hormones that they gave us in those initial wave of pills, but we took them. 0:20:32.740 --> 0:20:34.410
Nicole
And so. 0:20:35.260 --> 0:20:42.910
Nicole
We didn't hear as much about, you know, the horrible life of being pregnant because. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.90
Nicole
Pretty well. Everybody was on the pill that wanted to. 0:20:48.290 --> 0:20:49.250
Nicole
And you could get it. 0:20:50.330 --> 0:20:59.370
Nicole
On or off campus somewhere close, so all the people in residence are the women in residence would go and get, you know, get on the pill. 0:21:2.180 --> 0:21:10.130
Elizabeth Lafrance
In your own words, did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s, or what did? Sorry. 0:21:10.580 --> 0:21:19.840
Nicole
Well, apart from the pill, equal rights all of a sudden, yes, we did a lot of talking as women about how. 0:21:22.490 --> 0:21:30.530
Nicole
Our parents were our our mothers were being encased in this expectation and that we didn't wanna be the same. 0:21:31.530 --> 0:21:38.10
Nicole
We wanted to have more choices. We wanted more things and we realized very quickly that. 0:21:39.870 --> 0:21:49.410
Nicole
It was the man that was running this world and and we weren’t. We were. There was a lot of discussion. There was some really good discussions about. 0:21:50.40 --> 0:22:19.990
Nicole
Representation about government being only men, you know, corporations being led by men we were. We were definitely incensed about that. And it that messaging was definitely coming from the states. It we were hearing it. We were seeing it, there was campus groupings of women that and I remember sitting a couple of them I went, you know, once in a while I'd sit in on on some of those groups you. Cassie was really important that we we understand. 0:22:20.70 --> 0:22:21.750
Nicole
Why and how to change that? 0:22:22.410 --> 0:22:36.760
Nicole
But University had the social culture and the and the intellectual culture that we were more even equal because you could talk and you could challenge it there. 0:22:37.670 --> 0:22:40.570
Nicole
But it was very different when we went out into the real world. 0:22:42.170 --> 0:22:46.80
Nicole
That environment that university gave, gave us the opportunity. 0:22:46.730 --> 0:22:47.770
Nicole
To question ourselves. 0:22:48.550 --> 0:22:51.0
Nicole
But it's only when we got into the real world that. 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:53.70
Nicole
We realized wait a SEC. 0:22:54.40 --> 0:22:55.530
Nicole
Still not doing it right. 0:23:4.280 --> 0:23:4.720
Nicole
Yes. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:5.190
Elizabeth Lafrance
So were you a part of like those conversations that was happening in university about, like, feminism and, like, equal rights? 0:23:6.260 --> 0:23:12.830
Nicole
Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Often we. Like I said, we would join some of the groups and, and have these discussions. 0:23:13.710 --> 0:23:36.530
Nicole
Think we thought we with the universities you can create a group anytime you wanted to and you could, you know, have a meeting and use a a room. So yes, I-I did was I one to March? No, because I felt quite comfortable where I was in my world. But yes we did. I did sit in on quite a lot of the discussions at that time. 0:23:39.60 --> 0:23:39.570
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um. 0:23:41.130 --> 0:23:53.680
Elizabeth Lafrance
Gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today. How did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classrooms or at social events compared to the male students? 0:23:54.510 --> 0:23:59.600
Nicole
So the most interesting thing that happened to us when we when I started. 0:24:0.420 --> 0:24:1.950
Nicole
The first year. 0:24:3.250 --> 0:24:24.580
Nicole
All our classes. OK, so we were the things that we were specializing in teaching physical education, right. It was a course that brought you teaching Phys Ed in schools. OK, so at the first my first year, all my courses in sports were separate. 0:24:25.420 --> 0:24:26.130
Nicole
From the boys. 0:24:27.50 --> 0:24:37.100
Nicole
So we learned the female courses like dance and all of the sports, even basketball. It was all the girls together. 0:24:38.330 --> 0:24:47.300
Nicole
The next year we were there, UOttawa, the Department of Phys Ed, decided that they could not keep doing this. 0:24:48.230 --> 0:25:4.230
Nicole
Because when a teachers got into the real world of teaching, they got caught or they got, they were told they had to teach a class of boys or a class of girls, and they didn't have any background in it. 0:25:4.900 --> 0:25:13.370 Nicole
So that second year and forever after that, all the teaching of sports was mixed. 0:25:14.230 --> 0:25:25.600
Nicole
So, and it was hilarious. I can still see this. One of the guys. And I knew him quite well. He was huge. He was like 280 and he was on the provincial wrestling team. 0:25:27.90 --> 0:25:35.360
Nicole
And he comes to me and says, OK, here it is. You're gonna teach me how to teach dance. And I'm gonna teach you how to how to teach wrestling. 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:43.880
Nicole
I'm nearly got killed with him because he was so huge, but that's how much we had to change all of a sudden. 0:25:44.650 --> 0:25:54.380
Nicole
How we were looking at-at all of the introduction of teaching, because we have to learn the other sports. 0:25:55.280 --> 0:26:9.330
Nicole
And that was a huge hardship, and the teachers had a hard time with you because here you come in with a group of women and go, OK, what do we do with them? Like, how am I gonna teach wrestling to girls who never in their lives wrestle? 0:26:10.210 --> 0:26:10.830
Nicole
That was. 0:26:10.780 --> 0:26:11.50
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah. 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:16.180
Nicole
A big piece, but absolutely shifted how we looked at everything. 0:26:17.30 --> 0:26:20.860
Nicole
And because of that my first job. 0:26:21.980 --> 0:26:28.60
Nicole
I was able to teach. I had three girls classes, but I had two boys classes. 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.370
Nicole
And they hired me because I had had that preparation. 0:26:33.890 --> 0:26:34.880
Nicole
But it did make a difference. 0:26:35.730 --> 0:26:36.60
Nicole
Yeah. 0:26:37.750 --> 0:26:45.460
Elizabeth Lafrance
And the 1970s were there, UOttawa programs, departments or clubs where women were less present and accepted? 0:26:46.30 --> 0:26:46.230
Nicole
Absoluteely. 0:26:46.340 --> 0:26:46.840
Nicole
Remotely. 0:26:47.540 --> 0:26:52.0
Nicole
Everywhere there were certain things that you could see that you know, the women just weren't there. 0:26:52.660 --> 0:26:55.710
Nicole
Um, there was there was a. 0:26:56.490 --> 0:27:4.870
Nicole
Pick up hockey was the one of the first ones, and again, because women didn't play hockey in those days. 0:27:6.140 --> 0:27:11.890
Nicole
And I remember going to the rink and that's just one example going to the rink and saying I’d love to play hockey. 0:27:12.660 --> 0:27:16.670
Nicole
I can skate. Why can't I learn to play hockey? I got killed. 0:27:18.140 --> 0:27:31.300
Nicole
And if we should pick up hockey, but I because the guys knew me, I they taught me how to do it. But Oh God, there was so many things where it was still the women on one side and the minimum. There's no question about it. 0:27:32.60 --> 0:27:43.900
Nicole
And the man introduced, you know, wanting to go on the on the women's side too, it was as much one side as the other, but slowly, by the end of my five years. 0:27:44.740 --> 0:27:47.350
Nicole
It it was integrated a lot more. 0:27:48.10 --> 0:27:49.820
Nicole
Space compared to when I started. 0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:51.230
Nicole
Absolutely. 0:27:53.430 --> 0:27:57.640
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did you yourself face challenges, like when you wanted to like? 0:27:58.430 --> 0:28:1.520
Elizabeth Lafrance
Go into a space that was not as like female dominated. 0:28:3.190 --> 0:28:4.880
Nicole
Yes, absolutely. 0:28:5.680 --> 0:28:9.230
Nicole
Um and some women were more. 0:28:10.250 --> 0:28:13.460
Nicole
Comfortable and being in that world. 0:28:14.630 --> 0:28:29.900
Nicole
And I was, um, it really depended on how you-you looked at things. Some of the women weren't comfortable at all. I was skiing instructor, downhill ski instructor, and I ran. 0:28:31.0 --> 0:28:33.730
Nicole
The Speed School Children's school. At camp fortune. 0:28:35.210 --> 0:28:48.180
Nicole
All the way through university on the weekends, I was in charge of all the kids programs and we're talking 2000 kids a weekend. It was a massive ski school and I ran that. 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.670
Nicole
So I was with the guys all the time. 0:28:52.30 --> 0:29:3.840
Nicole
And I was the only woman that ran these programs. The others were all male, so I was more comfortable. But I knew a lot of women who would never have stepped up. 0:29:5.130 --> 0:29:15.970
Nicole
But again, by the end of my five years there, it was more accepted. It was more natural to have a women coming into sports that. 0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:17.840
Nicole
You know, wouldn't have. 0:29:18.500 --> 0:29:25.430
Nicole
Now, but even then, I- my daughter, who played boys, competitive hockey. 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:36.310
Nicole
Did have her challenges? So I could I can still see. It's not completely there. It never will be. I don't think. But we've come a long way. 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:44.790
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, so I'm going to move on to the another theme that ideology and generation on differences. 0:29:46.490 --> 0:30:6.920
Elizabeth Lafrance
Historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents, generation. To what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize or a more just or just adjust society and better world? 0:30:8.590 --> 0:30:17.580
Nicole
So there's a lot of. So we talked a lot about language and female and male. The one I think that. 0:30:18.750 --> 0:30:23.170
Nicole
Really, we started to understand more as we got into you like. 0:30:24.770 --> 0:30:29.890
Nicole
Old in more older grades of the university was more multicultural. 0:30:31.100 --> 0:30:31.850
Nicole
It was all white. 0:30:32.730 --> 0:30:35.230
Nicole
And if there were so few black. 0:30:35.890 --> 0:30:37.620
Nicole
Kids in the school. 0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:50.290
Nicole
And that's the one that we all all of a sudden started questioning saying, why is it like that? Like what is it with, you know, all of a sudden there was there was these discussions about. 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:55.710
Nicole
That hadn't existed before. My world was completely white. 0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:7.10
Nicole
And all of a sudden we were starting to say, well, why aren't they here or there we-we would talk to them and and they would be starting to say. 0:31:8.210 --> 0:31:9.650
Nicole
But why is it like that? 0:31:9.990 --> 0:31:13.250
Nicole
Um, so yeah, we-we did start. 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:26.620
Nicole
Talking about why and how you know, also again still the male female challenges of being represented to everywhere. So we you were pushing the envelope. 0:31:28.220 --> 0:31:31.890
Nicole
In our days, quite a lot more than when we started. 0:31:33.510 --> 0:31:43.110
Nicole
There was a lot more of why not and why can't we do this and let's let's go and find out or let's get involved more. 0:31:44.300 --> 0:31:51.940
Nicole
Which a lot of women didn't at the beginning and we had a greater voice of challenging that that piece. 0:31:53.80 --> 0:31:55.260
Nicole
But the multicultural piece does. 0:31:56.270 --> 0:32:1.540
Nicole
I really eye opener at the beginning started talking to the few. 0:32:2.680 --> 0:32:3.980
Nicole
Black kids that were with us. 0:32:5.290 --> 0:32:8.110
Nicole
And it was really eye opening back for sure. 0:32:10.650 --> 0:32:18.90
Elizabeth Lafrance
To what extent did your generation believe that your parents, and their notions about gender, family and dating, were outdated? 0:32:20.490 --> 0:32:21.160
Nicole
OK. 0:32:24.290 --> 0:32:28.780
Nicole
Yes, it it was because of the pill. The pill changed our lives. 0:32:29.540 --> 0:32:30.870
Nicole
Because before that. 0:32:31.650 --> 0:32:32.40
Nicole
If. 0:32:35.950 --> 0:32:40.80
Nicole
And all of a sudden that was all gone. You could do whatever you wanted to. 0:32:40.770 --> 0:32:42.460
Nicole
Where as our parents. 0:32:43.630 --> 0:32:47.0
Nicole
You know, they they really believed in in being, you know. 0:32:48.370 --> 0:32:49.740
Nicole
More individual. 0:32:50.380 --> 0:32:51.30
Nicole
Um. 0:32:53.180 --> 0:32:58.140
Nicole
I could see that that was definitely a challenge. 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:0.650
Nicole
Equal pay for equal work. 0:33:1.650 --> 0:33:7.930
Nicole
Um, I think that was one that we started hearing a lot now in education, it was equal. 0:33:8.910 --> 0:33:18.150
Nicole
But the jobs were not equal and we were hearing that already because we would have, we would go into schools and do practicals. 0:33:19.140 --> 0:33:23.690
Nicole
And so we were in the schools and it was very obvious that. 0:33:24.620 --> 0:33:28.270
Nicole
The senior administration, principals and vice principals were all male. 0:33:29.910 --> 0:33:31.140
Nicole
There were no female. 0:33:32.10 --> 0:33:36.460
Nicole
That we saw. So we realized even then that. 0:33:37.210 --> 0:33:43.250
Nicole
Wait a SEC, why is there not. And-and 80% of teachers are female, but yet? 0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:53.780
Nicole
You know, it was like 90% male in administration and and and also in the teaching environment we didn't have a lot of female teachers. 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.420
Nicole
So, and the ones we did really did help us. 0:33:59.210 --> 0:34:2.680
Nicole
To voice our-our concerns, but there's no question. 0:34:3.850 --> 0:34:6.370
Nicole
We were second guessing ourselves for that one for sure. 0:34:9.860 --> 0:34:12.670
Elizabeth Lafrance
Talking about to the 1970s. 0:34:14.780 --> 0:34:21.160
Elizabeth Lafrance
What aspect of Canadian to society did you see as most out of whack and in needing of fixing? 0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:24.170
Nicole
Again, same thing. It really was. 0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.330
Nicole
OK, great. equal work. 0:34:28.460 --> 0:34:37.30
Nicole
We- it was very obvious about that. We thought we could change the world. You do when you're at university because you're talking with other people that agree with you. 0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:42.830
Nicole
And so it's only when you get into the work world that. 0:34:43.710 --> 0:34:46.310
Nicole
Things don't change as quickly as you want it to. 0:34:47.350 --> 0:34:51.180
Nicole
So the environment you live in through your university years. 0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:54.120
Nicole
Are your most open. 0:34:55.260 --> 0:34:58.840
Nicole
In terms of questioning the why and how. 0:35:0.160 --> 0:35:4.550
Nicole
But it's only when you get into the work world that you realize, oh. 0:35:5.260 --> 0:35:6.120
Nicole
It's not as simple as that. 0:35:7.710 --> 0:35:10.120
Nicole
But in theory it sounded great that university. 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:12.680
Nicole
That was a huge right there. 0:35:14.240 --> 0:35:17.120
Nicole
And and it needed fixing. There's no question about that. 0:35:19.370 --> 0:35:20.140
Nicole
That’s the difference. 0:35:19.850 --> 0:35:20.380
Elizabeth Lafrance I'm. 0:35:24.900 --> 0:35:30.690
Elizabeth Lafrance
What were the principle forms of injustice in Canadian society during the 1970s? 0:35:32.130 --> 0:35:36.950
Nicole
Again, women being able to work outside of home. 0:35:37.700 --> 0:35:41.610
Nicole
And I was still in that generation where you stayed at home with your kids. 0:35:42.810 --> 0:35:43.680
Nicole
Um. 0:35:45.890 --> 0:36:2.190
Nicole
And most women I knew were talking about being home with kids, you know, and share your kids and racism again, same thing. There was a lot of injustices in-in, in the black community. 0:36:2.940 --> 0:36:5.870
Nicole
And we were just starting to be aware. 0:36:7.510 --> 0:36:9.410
Nicole
So there was definitely. 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:11.330
Nicole
For that too. 0:36:15.240 --> 0:36:23.480
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did you feel that any political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens needs? 0:36:24.430 --> 0:36:28.890
Nicole
They were responsible, responsive to the white male. 0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:31.260
Nicole
No one else. 0:36:32.40 --> 0:36:33.850
Nicole
It was all about the white male. 0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:36.420
Nicole
Everything was. 0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:44.900
Nicole
Control directed. There's no question that we were not equal and not and we still are not represented. 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:49.130
Nicole
So you can imagine back then how much, how little there was. 0:36:49.900 --> 0:37:2.930
Nicole
And we were we were talking about it a lot more or aware of it here. That first generation that said, hang on here. You know, why is it that? But it took a lot of. 0:37:4.100 --> 0:37:8.840
Nicole
Thinking of looking ahead to want to be one of those women that broke the seal? 0:37:10.110 --> 0:37:12.820
Nicole
And that was that. It took a while for that to happen. 0:37:13.620 --> 0:37:13.820
Nicole
Here. 0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:16.930
Elizabeth Lafrance
And. 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:25.80
Elizabeth Lafrance
So this is also talking on how cultural historians have argued that introduction to the birth control pill. 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:28.70
Elizabeth Lafrance
Legalization of abortion and dissemination. 0:37:28.550 --> 0:37:40.540
Elizabeth Lafrance
Of the manifestation of the free love ideology changed general gender relations and dating practices, in the early 1970s, do you agree with this statement? 0:37:41.10 --> 0:37:48.790
Nicole
Absolutely. It was massive. It really was. It was huge. It changed the whole lives up for us as a woman. 0:37:49.780 --> 0:37:53.570
Nicole
And you could decide when you wanted to be a mother. 0:37:55.340 --> 0:37:56.0
Nicole
Didn't before. 0:37:56.650 --> 0:38:0.370
Nicole
There was an expectation when I remember my mom telling me that that. 0:38:1.490 --> 0:38:8.570
Nicole
These would come around and they’d be pregnant by now. Again like there was a huge push, whereas the pill changed back. 0:38:9.540 --> 0:38:12.370
Nicole
You wanted to work for another five years and not get pregnant. 0:38:13.500 --> 0:38:13.820
Nicole
Yes. 0:38:14.660 --> 0:38:18.750
Nicole
And you had control over your life much, much more than our parents did. 0:38:22.500 --> 0:38:26.660
Elizabeth Lafrance
What did dating look like? At UOttawa in the 1970s? 0:38:29.220 --> 0:38:29.420
Nicole
I. 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:31.310
Nicole
It was pretty crazy. 0:38:32.430 --> 0:38:36.760
Nicole
It really was that first generation of. 0:38:37.500 --> 0:38:38.950
Nicole
Whenever we want because. 0:38:39.630 --> 0:38:40.660
Nicole
I can't get pregnant. 0:38:42.210 --> 0:38:43.750
Nicole
So it was. 0:38:44.620 --> 0:38:47.480
Nicole
Some of it was bad. Some of it was over the top. 0:38:48.290 --> 0:38:51.0
Nicole
Some women got badly. 0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:54.100
Nicole
Abused. 0:38:55.90 --> 0:38:57.940
Nicole
Because of that, and we. 0:38:58.810 --> 0:39:1.610
Nicole
We didn't know any better to say. 0:39:4.210 --> 0:39:6.660
Nicole
It's saying when we said no. 0:39:7.310 --> 0:39:9.480
Nicole
It means no those days. 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:15.250
Nicole
You-you had to be strong as an individual woman to say no. 0:39:15.980 --> 0:39:20.120
Nicole
And then I heard through the Grapevine often. 0:39:21.190 --> 0:39:33.200
Nicole
Me push the limits and women have been raped and and we would talk about it, but we never did anything about it. You didn't go to the police, didn't go to senior staff about it. You just. 0:39:34.660 --> 0:39:36.660
Nicole
Model of the person that had lived through it. 0:39:38.20 --> 0:39:38.580
Nicole
It was. 0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:40.940
Nicole
Yeah, it was bad. 0:39:41.740 --> 0:39:47.920
Nicole
Um, you got smart as the group of women, and so if you didn't want to be. 0:39:48.940 --> 0:39:51.430
Nicole
You you moved in groups a lot. 0:39:52.980 --> 0:39:55.390
Nicole
As women, we still do, don't you? 0:39:56.180 --> 0:39:56.660
Nicole
You know. 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:56.910
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yes. 0:39:57.340 --> 0:40:0.250
Nicole
Yeah. So you learn to be smart. 0:40:1.810 --> 0:40:3.920
Nicole
And I think that's what we learned. 0:40:4.750 --> 0:40:8.940
Nicole
About that part, just because you were on the pill did not mean you were safe, yes. 0:40:9.690 --> 0:40:13.400
Nicole
That's the people I think that they're very quickly. 0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:14.600
Nicole
Um. 0:40:15.330 --> 0:40:16.590
Nicole
And saying no. 0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:29.750
Nicole
With something that we learned has a group of women like talking to each other and and saying, wait a SEC. You know, I don't want to go out with this guy and they're saying, well, why do we have to kind of thing? 0:40:30.500 --> 0:40:30.820
Nicole
Yes. 0:40:31.930 --> 0:40:32.230
Nicole
Negative. 0:40:33.470 --> 0:40:36.960
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, how did your generation look at family and marriage? 0:40:38.430 --> 0:40:38.890
Nicole
Ah. 0:40:40.240 --> 0:40:40.680
Nicole
I think. 0:40:42.60 --> 0:40:48.280
Nicole
We still work very, very much living the same as our parents in terms of expectations. 0:40:49.180 --> 0:40:51.520
Nicole
Finding a family wanting to be married. 0:40:52.240 --> 0:40:58.450
Nicole
But we took longer to do it. We waited longer because we had that luxury. 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:1.40
Nicole
Of not getting pregnant. 0:41:2.40 --> 0:41:6.710
Nicole
He had the time to make the decisions later. 0:41:7.440 --> 0:41:8.170
Nicole
Then our parents. 0:41:8.930 --> 0:41:12.30
Nicole
My mom was pregnant by 21. 0:41:12.690 --> 0:41:16.400
Nicole
Married. You know, in the suit she's married. She was pregnant. 0:41:17.500 --> 0:41:18.110
Nicole
Whereas. 0:41:18.870 --> 0:41:33.130
Nicole
I had that luxury of saying, well, you know what I-I wanna work. I wanna work more and take my time making those decisions and maybe finding the right guy. And so we had that luxury. 0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:42.550
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um. 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:44.150
Elizabeth Lafrance
And so. 0:41:45.20 --> 0:41:46.620
Elizabeth Lafrance
You’ve read the questions, right? 0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:47.140
Nicole
Yeah. 0:41:49.430 --> 0:41:49.780
Nicole
Yeah. 0:41:48.40 --> 0:41:50.980
Elizabeth Lafrance
Do you want to answer like, the final question? 0:41:51.930 --> 0:41:52.990
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um. 0:41:55.290 --> 0:42:6.110
Elizabeth Lafrance
Many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment. To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe? 0:42:6.810 --> 0:42:7.920
Nicole
Absolutely nothing. 0:42:9.600 --> 0:42:17.380
Nicole
There was always a security guard there, but he was as dangerous as the kids and the boys. 0:42:18.130 --> 0:42:21.730
Nicole
And that's why we were really hung out as groups. 0:42:22.870 --> 0:42:29.100
Nicole
So women, unless you were with your boyfriend, you know that was wrong. You know, more of a relationship. 0:42:30.70 --> 0:42:40.430
Nicole
That security was half the time. It was one of the older guys that was paid to be that. It would have put a jacket on and he'd be a security guy. 0:42:41.100 --> 0:42:51.650
Nicole
Or an older man. And no, you did not go and tell those guys that something happened to you. It was never talked that way unless. 0:42:53.250 --> 0:43:3.420
Nicole
Unless the woman was beaten up and you had called, you had to call an ambulance. That was a different story, and even then it was it was not sexually. 0:43:5.630 --> 0:43:9.850
Nicole
I'm saying so it we didn’t talk about that part very much- she didn't. 0:43:10.870 --> 0:43:16.530
Nicole
I never experienced anyone around me that happened. I heard it through the Grapevine. 0:43:17.210 --> 0:43:17.800
Nicole
Um. 0:43:18.900 --> 0:43:21.270
Nicole
But no, there was.
Nicole
You really had to think on your feet. You had to be smart. 0:43:30.350 --> 0:43:31.740
Nicole
And you learned that. 0:43:32.410 --> 0:43:39.910
Nicole
Being the women burned, what was safer to do so that you wouldn't? You wouldn't get in that situation. 0:43:40.680 --> 0:43:41.320
Nicole
And. 0:43:42.490 --> 0:43:53.430
Nicole
I was lucky and my group lucky, so I guess it depended on you know, the type of relationship you have with the guys and how you did each other. 0:43:54.60 --> 0:43:57.350
Nicole
But I heard that line I would hear about. 0:43:58.210 --> 0:43:58.460
Nicole
Or. 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:3.890
Nicole
Absolutely. Especially the first two years and it was always senior guys. 0:44:4.780 --> 0:44:5.740
Nicole
You know that would be. 0:44:7.220 --> 0:44:10.700
Nicole
Going on at after the- the younger ones who had just arrived. 0:44:12.130 --> 0:44:13.620
Nicole
And that- that made a big difference. 0:44:16.810 --> 0:44:30.940
Elizabeth Lafrance
Our generation is interested in a free love movement. What was the perception of premarital sex on the University of Ottawa campus in 1970s? Was it viewed negatively, accepted or even encouraged? 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:36.810
Nicole
It was encouraged. I was fun. It really was. I mean, we were that first generation. 0:44:37.550 --> 0:44:39.190
Nicole
That all of a sudden? 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.170
Nicole
You you didn't have to worry about it. So you. 0:44:44.240 --> 0:44:45.10
Nicole
You had fun. 0:44:46.310 --> 0:44:48.260
Nicole
It was definitely expected. 0:44:48.920 --> 0:45:3.980
Nicole
And yet there was still a lot of girls who didn't want to go on the pill and did not really, you know, save themselves for the- the guy. And that was fine too. But most of us. 0:45:5.10 --> 0:45:8.760
Nicole
Um, you just live the way you want to. 0:45:10.170 --> 0:45:11.950
Nicole
It was pretty wild, that's for sure. 0:45:15.530 --> 0:45:21.460
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did members of your parents generation worry about pre marital sex? 0:45:22.30 --> 0:45:24.710
Nicole
Ohm. My God, my mother was so petrified for me to get pregnant. 0:45:25.410 --> 0:45:52.490
Nicole
And she didn't find out I was on the pill till much later. Didn't ask her permission to. I didn't dare talk about that. And it's only years later. And by then my sister, who's not much older and much younger than I was. And I'm the one who told her, alright, you're gonna do something. You better go get it and we could. We could go into a clinic. We could go into. It was right on campus. 0:45:53.850 --> 0:45:56.80
Nicole
That part you could find. 0:45:56.270 --> 0:46:0.980
Nicole
Um prescription for- for the pill, that's for sure. 0:46:2.130 --> 0:46:3.120
Nicole
It was. 0:46:5.350 --> 0:46:30.950
Nicole
It would. You just could find it. I- I went to my family doctor and by then I was one. And the other thing too. We were we were older because we had grade 13. Right. So we were one year older. So by the time we finished and I had to have a 5 year degree. So we were there for quite a while. So we were a lot older. 0:46:31.990 --> 0:46:33.570
Nicole
So that made a difference too. 0:46:34.660 --> 0:46:40.720
Nicole
But the decisions were easier to get to, and the- the bill was easy to get too, for sure. 0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:41.950
Nicole
Um. 0:46:42.850 --> 0:46:45.80
Nicole
And I think that changed. How. 0:46:46.610 --> 0:46:47.220
Nicole
We lived. 0:46:51.100 --> 0:46:52.80
Elizabeth Lafrance
So it's all my questions. 0:46:53.10 --> 0:46:56.590
Elizabeth Lafrance
I'm going to stop the recording and. 0:46:59.10 --> 0:46:59.680
Elizabeth Lafrance
transcription now. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP4, 47 minutes, 13 seconds Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Turpin, Nicole (interview) Description An account of the resource Testimonial about The University of Ottawa in the 1970s, including the counter-culture movement and second-wave feminism Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-21 Bilingualism Generational Differences Hippies Kiniesiology Leisure Ottawa Hangouts Party Culture Popular Music Race Second-Wave Feminism Sexuality Sovereignty Sports The Pill University of Ottawa Vietnam Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Birth Date 1950 Birthplace ParrySound, ON, CA Death Date None Schools Attended University Western, London, 1968-1971 Degree BA Career education Occupation teacher, technical writer. Ethnicity English Religious Culture Protestant Christian Devotional Life chose not to respond Gender Identity chose not to respond Sexual Orientation chose not to respond Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuanming Tian Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jeannette Logan Location The location of the interview Ottawa, Ontario, Canada (via Microsoft team) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:0.400 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:0:1.540 --> 0:0:7.220 Yuanming Tian I want the interval question section one per。 0:0:8.430 --> 0:0:10.310 Yuanming Tian um，section one，um。，um。 0:0:17.500 --> 0:0:20.260 Yuanming Tian Impact，impact popular。 0:0:22.60 --> 0:0:23.100 Yuanming Tian Popular。 0:0:25.570 --> 0:0:26.210 Yuanming Tian Culture。 0:0:28.110 --> 0:0:30.710 Yuanming Tian In impact impact，the popular culture。 0:0:35.660 --> 0:0:36.140 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:0:32.400 --> 0:0:37.800 Jeannette Logan If are you saying impact IMPACT impact？ 0:0:37.480 --> 0:0:38.920 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah impact。 0:0:39.340 --> 0:0:40.20 Jeannette Logan Of popular culture。 0:0:40.410 --> 0:0:40.810 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:0:42.960 --> 0:0:46.280 Yuanming Tian um，let me see。 0:0:48.60 --> 0:0:48.180 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:0:49.910 --> 0:0:51.110 Yuanming Tian There were these。 0:0:57.190 --> 0:1:8.70 Yuanming Tian OK，，what，what？Where the most popular，uh，huh？Hang out sport spores on sports on of campus。 0:1:9.910 --> 0:1:11.670 Jeannette Logan What were the most popular？ 0:1:15.790 --> 0:1:18.310 Yuanming Tian Hung hung uh hung out。 0:1:18.710 --> 0:1:19.790 Jeannette Logan Hey Hangouts。 0:1:24.900 --> 0:1:25.100 Jeannette Logan But。 0:1:19.910 --> 0:1:27.630 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah，yeah。Yeah。How to spots spots on？Yeah，an of a campus。 0:1:30.380 --> 0:1:30.820 Yuanming Tian 二一。 0:1:28.830 --> 0:1:34.870 Jeannette Logan Ohh，my goodness，what so when when I was at university，what were the popular Hangouts？ 0:1:35.440 --> 0:1:41.920 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah，uh，University of Ottawa in，uh，one。 0:1:43.420 --> 0:1:43.580 Yuanming Tian What？ 0:1:44.900 --> 0:1:48.860 Yuanming Tian Nineteen seventies nineteen seven nineteen seventies。 0:1:50.890 --> 0:1:54.170 Jeannette Logan In the nineteen seventies，popular Hangouts where？ 0:1:55.590 --> 0:1:56.470 Jeannette Logan For bars。 0:1:57.720 --> 0:1:58.480 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah。 0:2:0.210 --> 0:2:2.570 Jeannette Logan Usually bars that had music。 0:2:5.360 --> 0:2:13.680 Jeannette Logan Musicians playing in in the in the bars，and sometimes it was very loud and it was hard to talk。 0:2:16.220 --> 0:2:21.20 Yuanming Tian OK，you can see anything because we have a lot of time。 0:2:25.170 --> 0:2:25.450 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:2:28.630 --> 0:2:29.70 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:2:30.80 --> 0:2:47.520 Jeannette Logan But I also，I also was involved with um activities where I would meet other people such as I sang and acquire with other people，and I did some。 0:2:47.940 --> 0:2:49.140 Jeannette Logan With other people。 0:2:51.820 --> 0:2:52.500 Jeannette Logan And。 0:2:55.30 --> 0:3:2.230 Jeannette Logan I like to go to a cultural events like such as concerts and。 0:3:3.750 --> 0:3:4.830 Jeannette Logan Art galleries。 0:3:6.0 --> 0:3:7.600 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:3:14.790 --> 0:3:15.430 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:3:18.210 --> 0:3:28.290 Yuanming Tian Next next question，did you attend any leave music events during you university years？ 0:3:29.380 --> 0:3:30.580 Jeannette Logan Did I attend what？ 0:3:33.230 --> 0:3:33.990 Yuanming Tian Music。 0:3:36.250 --> 0:3:38.130 Yuanming Tian Let me see music。 0:3:39.250 --> 0:3:42.610 Yuanming Tian Events，yeah，music events，music events。 0:3:43.580 --> 0:3:45.260 Jeannette Logan Musical events yes。 0:3:46.10 --> 0:3:46.370 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:3:46.220 --> 0:3:49.60 Jeannette Logan II attended lots of rock concerts。 0:3:50.480 --> 0:3:50.920 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:3:52.620 --> 0:3:54.140 Jeannette Logan Huge rock concerts with。 0:3:55.260 --> 0:4:1.20 Jeannette Logan But with hundreds of people sometimes outside if it was in the summer。 0:4:2.970 --> 0:4:3.530 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:4:4.900 --> 0:4:8.260 Jeannette Logan I attended a concert for Three Dog Night。I remember that。 0:4:10.500 --> 0:4:13.740 Jeannette Logan Also folk folk music，I like folk music as well。 0:4:14.980 --> 0:4:18.660 Jeannette Logan Gordon Lightfoot I'm pretty sure was even singing that then。 0:4:21.440 --> 0:4:22.840 Yuanming Tian OK no problem。 0:4:24.320 --> 0:4:36.880 Yuanming Tian um，I sent you this this interval question in mailbox in，communicate in，communicate box。You can see this question because I because I。 0:4:37.840 --> 0:4:50.440 Yuanming Tian um。You can see communicate。Uh，you can you can see communicateumcommunicate box because II send you this interval question word。 0:4:53.600 --> 0:4:58.240 Jeannette Logan Sorry，I didn't。I didn't get that you were saying something about communication。 0:5:1.440 --> 0:5:3.320 Yuanming Tian Communication boxum。 0:5:5.990 --> 0:5:6.830 Yuanming Tian Let me see。 0:5:8.710 --> 0:5:8.830 Yuanming Tian um。 0:5:9.960 --> 0:5:10.80 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:5:11.50 --> 0:5:13.490 Yuanming Tian Or chat chat you can see chat。 0:5:14.70 --> 0:5:15.270 Jeannette Logan Ohh，I had to type。 0:5:15.780 --> 0:5:16.700 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:5:17.180 --> 0:5:21.220 Jeannette Logan Ohh，well，to be honest，I didn't do much typing。 0:5:23.140 --> 0:5:25.340 Jeannette Logan Everything。What was happening back then？ 0:5:27.850 --> 0:5:32.890 Jeannette Logan Because，uh，if things needed to be typed，I had a secretary who typed typed。 0:5:36.750 --> 0:5:38.310 Jeannette Logan Well，I learned I learned，um。 0:5:39.610 --> 0:5:45.170 Jeannette Logan I learned how to type，you're perfectly right。I wasn't a good typist，but I did learn how to type。 0:5:47.950 --> 0:5:48.870 Jeannette Logan What did they call it？ 0:5:50.900 --> 0:6:10.100 Jeannette Logan Like with with just with two two fingers not with all my fingers and I had to learn that when I got the job as a technical writer，that's right，OK？So when I became a technical writer，I had to learn how to type things and we had。 0:6:11.890 --> 0:6:15.690 Jeannette Logan So we had a central computer。I remember that。 0:6:16.950 --> 0:6:20.630 Jeannette Logan And we you，could you？ 0:6:21.10 --> 0:6:26.450 Jeannette Logan You could correct all your mistakes。I remember you learn how to correct your mistakes anyway。 0:6:29.290 --> 0:6:47.250 Jeannette Logan But to be honest，I think I used to write out my texts in longhand first and my and the secretary would type it in for the first time and then I would edit it afterwards。That's what that was。What happened at the beginning？We didn't have personal computers。 0:6:53.230 --> 0:6:53.590 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:6:48.150 --> 0:6:55.270 Jeannette Logan I didn't have a personal computer for quite some time。I don't think，certainly not in the nineteen seventies。 0:6:56.240 --> 0:7:16.240 Yuanming Tian OKumII send you a document in chat that's，that's，I mean，because I I'm afraid I will cause you to have a problem understanding，so I send I send this document in team team uh team uh in team chat。 0:7:20.480 --> 0:7:22.80 Jeannette Logan You want to send me a document？ 0:7:22.610 --> 0:7:27.210 Yuanming Tian Yeah，yeah，I have sent you document in team chat，you can see。 0:7:28.260 --> 0:7:28.740 Jeannette Logan Just a minute。 0:7:29.40 --> 0:7:30.0 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah。 0:7:32.890 --> 0:7:48.530 Yuanming Tian In chat document this is all interval question because I am afraid I will cause you have a problem to understand，so I send you this document that that's，I mean。 0:8:9.550 --> 0:8:10.390 Yuanming Tian Team chat。 0:8:10.220 --> 0:8:13.180 Jeannette Logan I'm I'm looking on my phone to see if I see any。 0:8:15.730 --> 0:8:18.690 Jeannette Logan You，you set you say you sent me some documents。 0:8:19.280 --> 0:8:21.440 Yuanming Tian um。 0:8:24.320 --> 0:8:25.800 Yuanming Tian You，you，you can see it。 0:8:35.710 --> 0:8:37.110 Yuanming Tian I send you again。 0:8:38.680 --> 0:8:38.920 Jeannette Logan Okay。 0:8:38.410 --> 0:8:42.90 Yuanming Tian I send you OKOKOKOKOK。 0:8:40.750 --> 0:8:43.470 Jeannette Logan Ohh，OK，but I thought something you sent me。 0:8:44.640 --> 0:8:44.880 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:8:47.860 --> 0:8:48.540 Jeannette Logan Then maybe stopping。 0:8:49.780 --> 0:8:50.660 Jeannette Logan No，that's not bad。 0:8:52.710 --> 0:8:53.110 Jeannette Logan Yeah。 0:8:54.450 --> 0:8:55.690 Jeannette Logan Confidentiality。 0:8:59.180 --> 0:9:0.620 Jeannette Logan Conversation participants。 0:9:8.660 --> 0:9:8.900 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:9:11.480 --> 0:9:12.840 Yuanming Tian Do you see it？ 0:9:14.480 --> 0:9:17.640 Jeannette Logan I was starting to think maybe there was some。 0:9:19.740 --> 0:9:20.260 Jeannette Logan Thank you for me。 0:9:34.110 --> 0:9:35.230 Jeannette Logan I haven't found anything。 0:9:44.860 --> 0:9:46.60 Jeannette Logan I haven't found anything here。 0:9:50.440 --> 0:9:57.800 Yuanming Tian I sent you document inumin team in team chat。 0:9:58.660 --> 0:10:0.60 Yuanming Tian um。Can you see it？ 0:10:3.890 --> 0:10:5.330 Jeannette Logan Ohh，it says just。 0:10:7.50 --> 0:10:8.90 Jeannette Logan Why is it？No。 0:10:24.620 --> 0:10:25.220 Jeannette Logan Ohh dear。 0:10:38.110 --> 0:10:40.110 Yuanming Tian Chat box chat box。 0:10:44.490 --> 0:10:46.50 Yuanming Tian Chat chat box in team。 0:10:49.560 --> 0:10:55.200 Yuanming Tian II send you document about interval question to understand。 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:3.680 Yuanming Tian I send this the document in chat box in chat box in team。 0:11:5.40 --> 0:11:7.800 Jeannette Logan Yeah，are you talking about question？ 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:11.120 Jeannette Logan You you。 0:11:7.410 --> 0:11:12.850 Yuanming Tian um，document。um，Adobe document about interval question。 0:11:13.530 --> 0:11:15.290 Jeannette Logan Did you just send it now？ 0:11:16.590 --> 0:11:17.70 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.200 Yuanming Tian No，no，just now I send you。 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.200 Jeannette Logan Did you send it by e-mail？ 0:11:26.100 --> 0:11:34.780 Yuanming Tian No no no um chat box chat box in uh chat box in in in team。 0:11:36.370 --> 0:11:38.610 Yuanming Tian You，you can。Yeah，you can see in team。 0:11:36.370 --> 0:11:39.610 Jeannette Logan You checked，you checked it out in in teams。 0:11:40.150 --> 0:11:41.390 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah yeah。 0:11:42.650 --> 0:11:42.930 Jeannette Logan Enjoy。 0:11:42.620 --> 0:11:44.700 Yuanming Tian You can see chat box，um？ 0:11:51.180 --> 0:11:53.100 Yuanming Tian I can't e-mail to you。 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:54.760 Jeannette Logan OK。 0:11:54.250 --> 0:11:59.770 Yuanming Tian um，but you could，um，but you，um，decor decorally to。 0:12:1.510 --> 0:12:4.670 Yuanming Tian To see in bug in chat box in team。 0:12:13.230 --> 0:12:15.910 Jeannette Logan So you're going to send me an e-mail，is that what you said？ 0:12:17.630 --> 0:12:18.790 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I sent you。 0:12:21.310 --> 0:12:22.190 Yuanming Tian Are you see it？ 0:12:25.430 --> 0:12:28.550 Yuanming Tian This is all interval question，uh，are you see it？ 0:12:30.990 --> 0:12:32.110 Jeannette Logan So I don't see it yet。 0:12:37.380 --> 0:12:38.700 Yuanming Tian II have send。 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:56.760 Yuanming Tian um，so I want，哎。So I want to continue my interval question。 0:12:59.60 --> 0:13:0.700 Yuanming Tian 偶太偶taiwa was a。 0:13:2.60 --> 0:13:3.500 Yuanming Tian Was be。 0:13:7.900 --> 0:13:8.820 Yuanming Tian Let me see。 0:13:14.230 --> 0:13:16.30 Yuanming Tian Whatever is the one？ 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:24.0 Yuanming Tian Bilingual or whatever is a bilingual school。How？ 0:13:30.890 --> 0:13:37.290 Yuanming Tian As because I want I afraid you don't understand，so I send you e-mail，can you see it？ 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.0 Jeannette Logan You're sending me an e-mail？ 0:13:40.330 --> 0:13:41.530 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:14:12.740 --> 0:14:12.940 Jeannette Logan Add it。 0:14:13.550 --> 0:14:14.830 Yuanming Tian 对okok okokok。 0:14:15.990 --> 0:14:21.790 Yuanming Tian This is all interval question，um，just now II ask two questions。 0:14:23.730 --> 0:14:25.210 Yuanming Tian You can，yeah。 0:14:27.150 --> 0:14:27.350 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:14:24.620 --> 0:14:41.180 Jeannette Logan It says the main question is cultural historians have argued that television，Hollywood，popular music and a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture otta。 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:47.720 Jeannette Logan Bilingual institution，and we want to better understand how anglophones and francophones related together。 0:14:48.990 --> 0:14:54.550 Jeannette Logan There was less electronics and Canadian society during the Seventies。How？ 0:14:54.850 --> 0:14:56.170 Jeannette Logan Pleasure time structured。 0:15:2.780 --> 0:15:3.180 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:14:58.110 --> 0:15:7.550 Jeannette Logan And what did students do for fun in the nineteen seventies？OK so II answered，the one about the hang up hangout spots。 0:15:9.880 --> 0:15:12.840 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah，yeah，I know。 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:14.960 Yuanming Tian You answer two questions。Yeah。 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:22.880 Jeannette Logan Yeah and live a music？Yes，yes，we had lots of live music，which was great。 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.920 Jeannette Logan Now you're saying that Ottawa was a bilingual institution。 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:36.560 Jeannette Logan Back in the back in the Seventies，I mean，I studied。I studied French and high school。 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.480 Jeannette Logan But it was only when did I start？ 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.880 Jeannette Logan Actually，I started studying French。 0:15:49.330 --> 0:15:54.810 Jeannette Logan At in the evening classes again in in about nineteen seventy five。 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:57.960 Jeannette Logan And I。 0:16:0.560 --> 0:16:2.840 Jeannette Logan I took conversational French classes。 0:16:4.270 --> 0:16:8.630 Jeannette Logan And then in the early eighties，I。 0:16:10.500 --> 0:16:27.180 Jeannette Logan I joined a sailing group where we most of the members were francophone，so I started really improving my French by the nineteen eighties and now I am fully bilingual。 0:16:29.60 --> 0:16:30.940 Jeannette Logan I can read and write in in French。 0:16:31.930 --> 0:16:33.50 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:16:34.150 --> 0:16:34.310 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:37.960 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:16:39.70 --> 0:16:43.990 Jeannette Logan Did anglophones and francophones date each other during the nineteen seventies。 0:16:47.890 --> 0:16:49.450 Jeannette Logan Probably not very much。 0:16:50.250 --> 0:16:50.570 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:16:50.410 --> 0:16:51.690 Jeannette Logan I didn't have any。 0:16:53.30 --> 0:16:56.710 Jeannette Logan Francophone boyfriends that I'm aware of，I don't think so。 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:1.720 Jeannette Logan Use the park party culture。 0:17:3.600 --> 0:17:6.840 Jeannette Logan One of the things I remember in the in the nineteen seventies was。 0:17:8.620 --> 0:17:18.580 Jeannette Logan I was not a member of a sorority or a fraternity，but a lot of the boys wear and they used to have what they call these frat parties。 0:17:20.260 --> 0:17:25.740 Jeannette Logan At the frat house fraternity house，and they were really。 0:17:28.460 --> 0:17:36.900 Jeannette Logan There was a lot of drinking alcohol in those places and in those days I did not drink very much。Thank goodness，but I certainly remember。 0:17:38.700 --> 0:17:51.260 Jeannette Logan The some of the boys getting very，very drunk。I remember something called purple Jesus it was。It was a type of alcohol that they mixed with grape juice and it was horrible。 0:17:53.470 --> 0:18:0.790 Jeannette Logan So I did not drink very much of it，but other people did，um，the other thing I remember was wine。 0:18:1.910 --> 0:18:9.310 Jeannette Logan Very sweet in those days，people drank very sweet wine，which I do not like it all and now I get very dry wine now。 0:18:11.470 --> 0:18:13.310 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I know，okay？ 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.880 Jeannette Logan All the Vietnam War that。 0:18:19.100 --> 0:18:19.820 Jeannette Logan Was an issue。 0:18:21.660 --> 0:18:22.660 Jeannette Logan We had。 0:18:25.220 --> 0:18:32.420 Jeannette Logan Young men that were called draft dodgers，they came up to Canada and I certainly knew some draft dodgers。 0:18:35.630 --> 0:18:36.750 Jeannette Logan In the Seventies。 0:18:39.370 --> 0:18:58.410 Jeannette Logan And one place where I worked，yes，that was in the Seventies we had some draft dodgers that were employed at at the at the I worked at the Ontario Science Center，and we had some American young men working there in the audio visual department。I remember that。 0:18:59.250 --> 0:19:1.650 Jeannette Logan Yeah，the Vietnam War that was awful。 0:19:3.850 --> 0:19:17.210 Jeannette Logan I remember a cousin of mine and who lives in the states，was drafted，but thank goodness he had flat feet for the so they didn't accept them as a soldier，so he didn't have to go to Vietnam。But I remember。 0:19:18.420 --> 0:19:18.540 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:19:20.110 --> 0:19:20.590 Yuanming Tian Okay。 0:19:24.510 --> 0:19:28.270 Jeannette Logan Oh rock and roll that was very big。Um。 0:19:28.570 --> 0:19:36.250 Jeannette Logan The friends who are in a rock and roll band and these were friends from from from my high school back in Perry sound and。 0:19:37.770 --> 0:19:59.370 Jeannette Logan They had AA band in the beginning called the Georgian four，which was named after a Georgian Bay。That's where we came from near Georgia Bay and then later on they actually recorded music under the name chemos DHIMO。And if you go on to YouTube today，you can hear chemo。 0:20:0.870 --> 0:20:1.150 Jeannette Logan Now。 0:20:2.130 --> 0:20:2.410 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:20:3.990 --> 0:20:5.150 Yuanming Tian OK thanks。 0:20:7.230 --> 0:20:8.190 Jeannette Logan Youth culture。 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:17.720 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:20:9.380 --> 0:20:25.300 Jeannette Logan Um，there was。I wasn't aware of any kind of drugs other than cigarettes。Cigarettes were all my goodness when I talked about the bars，that was one of the worst things about the bars that was so smoky，it was awful。I did。I never smoked。 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.560 Jeannette Logan So I guess I probably tried a little marijuana now and then，but I didn't really。 0:20:32.740 --> 0:20:33.620 Yuanming Tian Yeah，and。 0:20:33.250 --> 0:20:36.890 Jeannette Logan I didn't really adopt any drugs at all。 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:39.480 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I think。 0:20:42.60 --> 0:20:47.140 Jeannette Logan But I do remember to talk about psychedelic drugs like LSD。That was。 0:20:49.410 --> 0:20:52.650 Jeannette Logan Talked about，but I was not familiar of any。 0:20:54.980 --> 0:20:59.900 Jeannette Logan Any um use of LSD in my friend。 0:21:2.30 --> 0:21:5.150 Jeannette Logan Now the next section is called the female experience。 0:21:5.560 --> 0:21:7.280 Yuanming Tian Yeah，female experience。 0:21:8.280 --> 0:21:13.880 Jeannette Logan It says cultural historian to written a lot about what they call the second wave feminism。 0:21:14.670 --> 0:21:14.830 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:21:14.860 --> 0:21:26.20 Jeannette Logan That as part of the counter coach of movement women during this early seventies，sought to breakdown gender barriers。Does this argument resonate with your experience？Yes，very much so。 0:21:27.740 --> 0:21:28.860 Jeannette Logan I was certainly a。 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:35.40 Jeannette Logan A woman of that second wave feminism，I read a lot about it。 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:44.280 Jeannette Logan I never changed my name。Jeanette Logan is my birthday，even though I have been be。 0:21:44.580 --> 0:21:52.700 Jeannette Logan II never changed my name。I always thought it was important to keep my own identity。I always had my own bank accounts。 0:21:55.460 --> 0:21:58.580 Jeannette Logan That was important，but also in the nineteen seventy。 0:21:59.700 --> 0:22:14.340 Jeannette Logan We were leading up to the the royal Commission on the status of women in the nineteen seventies here in Canada，and those were very important women to us。They。 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.640 Jeannette Logan The way to to our freedom。 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.520 Jeannette Logan Or，our independent。That's right that way。 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:43.240 Jeannette Logan And in nineteen seventy five，that was the year the year of the woman，nineteen seventy five，but also I could say a big influence for women was the availability of the birth control field that came became available in the nineteen sixties。 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.600 Jeannette Logan Till the late nineteen sixties，and that was。 0:22:49.980 --> 0:22:56.140 Jeannette Logan That certainly involved a lot，a lot more sexual freedom than before。 0:22:58.760 --> 0:22:59.280 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:23:2.470 --> 0:23:3.270 Yuanming Tian OK thanks。 0:23:5.30 --> 0:23:11.30 Jeannette Logan To what extent did your generation believe that your parents notion about gender or family and dating were outdated？ 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:16.520 Jeannette Logan Well yes，I agree with that statement，except that my mother。 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:39.800 Jeannette Logan She was not allowed to go to university when she she graduated the top of her class in high school and but it was at the beginning of the Second World War for her too，and it was important that she went out to work while my father went to overseas to fight。But。 0:23:51.610 --> 0:23:51.770 Yuanming Tian oh 0:23:42.90 --> 0:23:53.170 Jeannette Logan My mother was certainly in favor of education for all of all of our children and my father too。My family supported higher education，so that was important。 0:23:54.540 --> 0:23:54.660 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:23:55.440 --> 0:24:0.280 Jeannette Logan What part of Canadian society was most out of whack in need of fixing？ 0:24:2.280 --> 0:24:7.600 Jeannette Logan Good question。Oh well，job opportunities，job opportunities were poor for women。 0:24:9.400 --> 0:24:9.520 Jeannette Logan I。 0:24:9.740 --> 0:24:14.780 Jeannette Logan Could remember，and II could quote you when。 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:26.280 Jeannette Logan For a job as a medical because I studied sciences and I had worked in medical labs at a hospital and also at clinics。 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:57.760 Jeannette Logan I could I could take blood and other kinds of and do analysis，and I applied for a job。This is before I started teaching。I applied for a job，is to work in a laboratory and the man interviewing me told actually said to me，why would I hire you？You will just get married and have children and I won't have an employee anymore。I was twenty one years old and this is what he。 0:24:59.20 --> 0:25:15.140 Jeannette Logan He told me at the interview，so that was not very encouraging。I have to admit，so that's what I decided to go to，to go to teachers college because I wanted to help the next generation of children know more about science。So that's when I started teaching science in school。 0:25:17.500 --> 0:25:20.660 Jeannette Logan So I actually proved them wrong。I worked my whole life。 0:25:23.290 --> 0:25:23.770 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:25:25.980 --> 0:25:43.620 Jeannette Logan But there certainly was a glass ceiling that was II counted that throat in my whole career when I was still at university，I my original intentions were to be be a doctor and coming out of high。 0:25:51.40 --> 0:25:51.160 Yuanming Tian 。 0:25:44.180 --> 0:25:51.260 Jeannette Logan It's a valedictorian of my class and I had been accepted at three universities and。 0:25:54.50 --> 0:25:57.810 Jeannette Logan Throttle，Queens and western，and。 0:25:59.610 --> 0:26:2.90 Jeannette Logan But western offered me a very good scholarship。 0:26:3.770 --> 0:26:16.410 Jeannette Logan And my I was the eldest of six children and I thought that would be really helpful to have the scholarship，so I accepted their invitation to go to western，and then I discovered that。 0:26:18.290 --> 0:26:32.50 Jeannette Logan That I wouldn't be going into what was called pre Med in those days I had。I was going into AA standard science program and then I had to reapply for medical school after two years。 0:26:33.350 --> 0:26:56.790 Jeannette Logan And when I reapplied after two years，I did not get in。They had a quota on the number of women in in medical school at western。I think it was the same everywhere，but only twenty percent of the class could be female，so eighty percent of class was male and twenty percent was female。And my。 0:26:58.50 --> 0:27:12.290 Jeannette Logan Grades uh，I had seventy four point something percent，but that was not good enough。I had male colleagues in my chemistry class who got in with sixty six percent，but I couldn't get in with with seventy four。 0:27:14.290 --> 0:27:22.10 Jeannette Logan So I continued on in chemistry and graduated，but I didn't want to work in a laboratory，so that's how I ended up。 0:27:22.870 --> 0:27:27.870 Jeannette Logan Teaching but II don't regret it though I enjoy the teaching。 0:27:30.780 --> 0:27:36.260 Jeannette Logan OK，so where are we at that？That was out of whack，that's for sure，and that was injustice too。 0:27:37.650 --> 0:27:38.850 Yuanming Tian I also like teaching。 0:27:39.820 --> 0:27:44.540 Jeannette Logan You feel that the political system was democratic，fair and responsive to citizens needs。 0:27:46.220 --> 0:27:51.180 Jeannette Logan Well，I was quite involved with politics too。In those days，I certainly campaigned for。 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:57.440 Jeannette Logan For for Pierre Elliott Trudeau。I was part of the youth。 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:29.360 Jeannette Logan Do you use campaigning for for，uh，during that election？Um so II，actually my，my，my family was quite involved with politics at the local level，so it wasn't unusual，so I was I we we all look forward to having Pierre Trudeau as our as our Prime Minister。He seemed to be，he seemed to be more with it than。 0:28:30.820 --> 0:28:34.180 Jeannette Logan Than some of the other ones once we had before。 0:28:40.270 --> 0:28:43.470 Jeannette Logan OK，do you wanna go on to question number three now？ 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:44.600 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:28:45.850 --> 0:28:58.730 Jeannette Logan Cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill，legalization of abortion and dissemination of the free love ideology change，gender relations and dating practice in the early seventies。 0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:1.520 Jeannette Logan Yes，I would agree with that statement。 0:29:4.490 --> 0:29:10.210 Jeannette Logan I definitely，uh。I first took the birth control pill because I had very painful。 0:29:12.10 --> 0:29:30.330 Jeannette Logan Menstrual periods and I。But I can remember have being embarrassed going to pick up the the birth control pills at the drug store because the pharmacist or the person dispensing them would give you AA sly look about what，what are you going to do this weekend？I can remember being very。 0:29:31.390 --> 0:29:32.590 Jeannette Logan Improper，if you ask me？ 0:29:38.890 --> 0:29:49.130 Jeannette Logan Uh date with with a lot of dating at university。Uh，there were lots of，uh，events like dances and uh other。 0:29:51.50 --> 0:30:2.490 Jeannette Logan Other um social events that happened and I was a very social person，so I participated a lot of them and I had a number of boyfriends，but only。 0:30:2.710 --> 0:30:8.550 Jeannette Logan Few of them became intimate boyfriends or very few to be honest，but some。 0:30:10.930 --> 0:30:11.450 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:30:15.60 --> 0:30:17.540 Jeannette Logan How did your generation look at family and marriage？ 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.600 Jeannette Logan Well，yes，that was，um。 0:30:25.710 --> 0:30:26.710 Jeannette Logan You basically，you know？ 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:31.720 Jeannette Logan You're basically where it's supposed to get pregnant。Unfortunately，I did。 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.520 Jeannette Logan And getting it getting an abortion was even though it was supposedly legal。 0:30:39.260 --> 0:30:39.580 Jeannette Logan Was not。 0:30:40.740 --> 0:30:57.660 Jeannette Logan Not readily available。Let's put it that way and I ended up having um，an illegal abortion which was not a pleasant experience。Well，the experience wasn't too bad，but the aftermath was unpleasant and I ended up in the hospital，so that was。 0:30:58.370 --> 0:31:1.490 Jeannette Logan Not a good experience，I have to admit。 0:31:2.600 --> 0:31:4.960 Jeannette Logan But that was the way things were those days。 0:31:7.150 --> 0:31:7.630 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:31:13.500 --> 0:31:22.380 Jeannette Logan Ohh，I remember when my my sister got pregnant as well，and，um，this was well with a little bit after me，of course，but。 0:31:24.340 --> 0:31:26.340 Jeannette Logan One and she。 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:52.320 Jeannette Logan Miscarriage and she went to the local hospital and I remember my mother refused to go and visit her in the hospital because we lived in a small town and she was not going to go and and show her face because her daughter was there who had a miscarriage so that sort of shows what the feeling was about having a child out of wedlock and not being married。 0:31:57.660 --> 0:32:3.220 Jeannette Logan OK，so the next section is called sexuality and harassment。 0:32:6.300 --> 0:32:15.900 Jeannette Logan Many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment to what extent the university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe。 0:32:17.190 --> 0:32:21.830 Jeannette Logan Well，I have to be honest，I never felt unsafe，so I'm not。 0:32:23.730 --> 0:32:26.650 Jeannette Logan All the dances and whatever did have monitors there。 0:32:28.350 --> 0:32:30.110 Jeannette Logan I would suspect if somebody。 0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.760 Jeannette Logan Thought they were in trouble。They might be able to get some help。 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.360 Jeannette Logan But，but to be honest。 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:42.440 Jeannette Logan I didn't have。 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:52.760 Jeannette Logan Any problems at university that I recall feeling harassed or I was pretty good at looking after myself，I guess？ 0:32:54.590 --> 0:32:55.750 Jeannette Logan Speaking up for myself。 0:33:3.400 --> 0:33:16.480 Jeannette Logan What our generation is interested in a free love movement。What was the perception of premarital sex on the campus in the Seventies？Was it viewed，negatively accepted or even encouraged？ 0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:24.680 Jeannette Logan I don't recall it being encouraged，but it wasn't。It wasn't unacceptable。 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:33.720 Jeannette Logan But when you say free love though，I certainly wouldn't have was never an adherent of of different sexual partners at the same time。 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:47.760 Jeannette Logan II was one one boyfriend at a time person and usually a boyfriend that I'd had for for a period of time，not just not just the first date kind of arrangement。 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:50.240 Yuanming Tian Ohh OK。 0:33:58.980 --> 0:34:2.140 Jeannette Logan Of your parents generation worry about premarital sex。 0:34:4.70 --> 0:34:10.990 Jeannette Logan Well，if they did，I don't remember them talking to me about it other than I guess it was sort of a understood that。 0:34:12.370 --> 0:34:14.530 Jeannette Logan That was a dangerous thing to to do。 0:34:16.410 --> 0:34:20.450 Jeannette Logan Because，well，unless you were，unless you were on the birth control pill。 0:34:22.630 --> 0:34:26.870 Jeannette Logan Which once it was available，I was，I was，I was on the birth control pill。 0:34:47.10 --> 0:34:47.130 Yuanming Tian Huh？ 0:34:28.330 --> 0:34:58.50 Jeannette Logan Years like all the time，but although I do remember these，they used to say that you shouldn't stay on the brisket tool for for a long period of time and they advised you to get off it for a couple of months each year。That that's what I got pregnant。That's what I remember，and I could tell you that unfortunately，poorest poor sexual education didn't help my boyfriend at the time，who had been a boyfriend for quite some time。 0:34:59.630 --> 0:35:24.30 Jeannette Logan Didn't realize that he could impregnate me before he had an orgasm，so he would determine ignorant because he didn't know that he didn't know that information，but that was that was the cause of me getting pregnant because he was unaware even though and I can remember I tried to talk him out of it，but that didn't work。Come to think of it。 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:26.600 Yuanming Tian OK no problem。 0:35:29.690 --> 0:35:32.10 Yuanming Tian It shouldn't be all finished。 0:35:33.620 --> 0:35:35.340 Jeannette Logan Have I answered all the questions now？ 0:35:36.550 --> 0:35:38.590 Yuanming Tian Uh，maybe no question。 0:35:39.990 --> 0:35:41.910 Yuanming Tian Let me see just a second。 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:43.40 Yuanming Tian um。 0:35:44.410 --> 0:35:46.650 Yuanming Tian Just a second I want to see。 0:35:48.250 --> 0:35:49.730 Yuanming Tian Maybe it's no question。 0:35:50.220 --> 0:35:51.140 Jeannette Logan No more questions。 0:35:51.580 --> 0:35:52.580 Yuanming Tian Yeah，maybe，um？ 0:35:53.110 --> 0:35:53.470 Jeannette Logan Maybe。 0:35:58.40 --> 0:36:0.440 Jeannette Logan Are you asking？Is there anything else I wish to add？ 0:36:5.450 --> 0:36:8.530 Yuanming Tian Uh，yeah，yeah，you can。You can do it。 0:36:14.260 --> 0:36:25.300 Jeannette Logan Well，um，I would say that nineteen seventies was a，um。There were a lot of things happening in the nineteen seventies，not just with the women's liberation。 0:36:27.60 --> 0:36:33.660 Jeannette Logan The other thing that was that was coming on board then was talk about the environment。 0:36:35.700 --> 0:36:39.460 Jeannette Logan We were already having started。 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:47.920 Jeannette Logan I can remember I was recycling bottles and cans and papers from the beginning in the nineteen seventies in Ottawa。 0:36:49.570 --> 0:36:49.810 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:36:49.300 --> 0:36:56.60 Jeannette Logan Um，I lived in，uh，I lived in Ottawa during the nineteen seventies，and um。 0:36:57.900 --> 0:36:59.180 Jeannette Logan And I also remember。 0:37:0.780 --> 0:37:10.620 Jeannette Logan Learning about because I worked at the Ontario Science Center at one point in Toronto，and we had AA new。 0:37:10.700 --> 0:37:12.860 Jeannette Logan Exhibition area called。 0:37:15.140 --> 0:37:29.980 Jeannette Logan Planet earth and it was based on ecology，so I learned about ecology in the relationship between the environment and and everything in the environment，and I。 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:42.120 Jeannette Logan Learned about groups of people that were working to alert us to the problems that were appearing in our environment，and there was a。 0:37:44.100 --> 0:37:46.540 Jeannette Logan Group in Switzerland，I think。 0:37:50.150 --> 0:38:2.670 Jeannette Logan I'm trying to know what they were called though，but they。They produced a book called limits to growth，and if I remember correctly it was published in nineteen seventy five and it basically said that。 0:38:4.550 --> 0:38:16.190 Jeannette Logan We couldn't keep on just thinking we could grow bigger and better，bigger and better every year and not destroy the environment basically so。 0:38:16.610 --> 0:38:22.730 Jeannette Logan And Dr Suzuki was David Suzuki was was beginning in those years。 0:38:24.530 --> 0:38:27.930 Jeannette Logan He he was the original produc。 0:38:28.610 --> 0:38:35.10 Jeannette Logan The radio program called quirks and quarks，which is on CBC radio still today。 0:38:36.270 --> 0:38:45.710 Jeannette Logan And um and and he was talking about the environment back back then，and so when I，my career towards。 0:38:47.550 --> 0:38:48.510 Jeannette Logan Towards the end。 0:38:51.350 --> 0:39:12.670 Jeannette Logan I was working in the field of environment and and this was because of what I learned back in the nineteen seventies。I was now into the nineteen nineties，but I was really conscious of of the concern for the environment and look at us。Look at us now like。 0:39:14.670 --> 0:39:27.310 Jeannette Logan How many，how many more years？I would agree about？Thirty years later，after the nineteen nineties and we're talking about a climate crisis，but we were already talking about the potential for a climate crisis in the nineteen seventies，so。 0:39:29.70 --> 0:39:36.30 Jeannette Logan It was a very important decade if you asked me and I。 0:39:36.230 --> 0:39:38.230 Jeannette Logan At A at a very significant。 0:39:38.690 --> 0:39:48.290 Jeannette Logan On not only my life personally，but also my career and and my activity，my activism today。 0:39:50.70 --> 0:39:56.150 Jeannette Logan I am still active in in society，trying to help the environment and。 0:39:57.350 --> 0:40:1.590 Jeannette Logan Other important things。So like I said，that's about all I wanted to say。 0:40:3.600 --> 0:40:4.880 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:40:8.90 --> 0:40:18.50 Jeannette Logan Well，thank you。Thank you，Philip。Um for giving me this opportunity to share my history，I really enjoyed it and I hope I haven't forgotten anything significant。 0:40:18.890 --> 0:40:23.890 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah yeah I buy I buy。 0:40:24.110 --> 0:40:47.510 Yuanming Tian Sir，you give me a opportunity to now，uh，the Canada history because I'm international student，so II prefer to now other countries history such as my hometown country，my hometown history，so I don't I。 0:40:48.490 --> 0:40:56.930 Yuanming Tian um，clear the Kandahar history，but you tell me today，so I'm very thank you，um，I thank you very much。 0:40:59.430 --> 0:40:59.630 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:41:0.810 --> 0:41:1.290 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:41:2.220 --> 0:41:2.380 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:41:1.0 --> 0:41:30.680 Jeannette Logan Thank you。Thank you for this and thank you for your efforts Philip and uh content。I hope I also enjoy history even though I studied sciences。Um，I found out as an adult later that I didn't know enough about history，so I've I've read quite a bit of his history for Canada and other countries as well，and it's a it's a。It's a strong interest of mine amongst other interests。 0:41:32.40 --> 0:41:32.640 Jeannette Logan Bye bye for now。 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:34.440 Yuanming Tian OKbye。 0:41:37.420 --> 0:41:38.780 Yuanming Tian Have a nice day bye。 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:40.120 Jeannette Logan Goodbye。 0:41:40.730 --> 0:41:41.290 Yuanming Tian um，bye Transcription Translation 0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:0.400 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:0:1.540 --> 0:0:7.220 Yuanming Tian I want the interval question section one per。 0:0:8.430 --> 0:0:10.310 Yuanming Tian um，section one，um。，um。 0:0:17.500 --> 0:0:20.260 Yuanming Tian Impact，impact popular。 0:0:22.60 --> 0:0:23.100 Yuanming Tian Popular。 0:0:25.570 --> 0:0:26.210 Yuanming Tian Culture。 0:0:28.110 --> 0:0:30.710 Yuanming Tian In impact impact，the popular culture。 0:0:35.660 --> 0:0:36.140 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:0:32.400 --> 0:0:37.800 Jeannette Logan If are you saying impact IMPACT impact？ 0:0:37.480 --> 0:0:38.920 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah impact。 0:0:39.340 --> 0:0:40.20 Jeannette Logan Of popular culture。 0:0:40.410 --> 0:0:40.810 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:0:42.960 --> 0:0:46.280 Yuanming Tian um，let me see。 0:0:48.60 --> 0:0:48.180 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:0:49.910 --> 0:0:51.110 Yuanming Tian There were these。 0:0:57.190 --> 0:1:8.70 Yuanming Tian OK，，what，what？Where the most popular，uh，huh？Hang out sport spores on sports on of campus。 0:1:9.910 --> 0:1:11.670 Jeannette Logan What were the most popular？ 0:1:15.790 --> 0:1:18.310 Yuanming Tian Hung hung uh hung out。 0:1:18.710 --> 0:1:19.790 Jeannette Logan Hey Hangouts。 0:1:24.900 --> 0:1:25.100 Jeannette Logan But。 0:1:19.910 --> 0:1:27.630 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah，yeah。Yeah。How to spots spots on？Yeah，an of a campus。 0:1:30.380 --> 0:1:30.820 Yuanming Tian 二一。 0:1:28.830 --> 0:1:34.870 Jeannette Logan Ohh，my goodness，what so when when I was at university，what were the popular Hangouts？ 0:1:35.440 --> 0:1:41.920 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah，uh，University of Ottawa in，uh，one。 0:1:43.420 --> 0:1:43.580 Yuanming Tian What？ 0:1:44.900 --> 0:1:48.860 Yuanming Tian Nineteen seventies nineteen seven nineteen seventies。 0:1:50.890 --> 0:1:54.170 Jeannette Logan In the nineteen seventies，popular Hangouts where？ 0:1:55.590 --> 0:1:56.470 Jeannette Logan For bars。 0:1:57.720 --> 0:1:58.480 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah。 0:2:0.210 --> 0:2:2.570 Jeannette Logan Usually bars that had music。 0:2:5.360 --> 0:2:13.680 Jeannette Logan Musicians playing in in the in the bars，and sometimes it was very loud and it was hard to talk。 0:2:16.220 --> 0:2:21.20 Yuanming Tian OK，you can see anything because we have a lot of time。 0:2:25.170 --> 0:2:25.450 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:2:28.630 --> 0:2:29.70 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:2:30.80 --> 0:2:47.520 Jeannette Logan But I also，I also was involved with um activities where I would meet other people such as I sang and acquire with other people，and I did some。 0:2:47.940 --> 0:2:49.140 Jeannette Logan With other people。 0:2:51.820 --> 0:2:52.500 Jeannette Logan And。 0:2:55.30 --> 0:3:2.230 Jeannette Logan I like to go to a cultural events like such as concerts and。 0:3:3.750 --> 0:3:4.830 Jeannette Logan Art galleries。 0:3:6.0 --> 0:3:7.600 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:3:14.790 --> 0:3:15.430 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:3:18.210 --> 0:3:28.290 Yuanming Tian Next next question，did you attend any leave music events during you university years？ 0:3:29.380 --> 0:3:30.580 Jeannette Logan Did I attend what？ 0:3:33.230 --> 0:3:33.990 Yuanming Tian Music。 0:3:36.250 --> 0:3:38.130 Yuanming Tian Let me see music。 0:3:39.250 --> 0:3:42.610 Yuanming Tian Events，yeah，music events，music events。 0:3:43.580 --> 0:3:45.260 Jeannette Logan Musical events yes。 0:3:46.10 --> 0:3:46.370 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:3:46.220 --> 0:3:49.60 Jeannette Logan II attended lots of rock concerts。 0:3:50.480 --> 0:3:50.920 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:3:52.620 --> 0:3:54.140 Jeannette Logan Huge rock concerts with。 0:3:55.260 --> 0:4:1.20 Jeannette Logan But with hundreds of people sometimes outside if it was in the summer。 0:4:2.970 --> 0:4:3.530 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:4:4.900 --> 0:4:8.260 Jeannette Logan I attended a concert for Three Dog Night。I remember that。 0:4:10.500 --> 0:4:13.740 Jeannette Logan Also folk folk music，I like folk music as well。 0:4:14.980 --> 0:4:18.660 Jeannette Logan Gordon Lightfoot I'm pretty sure was even singing that then。 0:4:21.440 --> 0:4:22.840 Yuanming Tian OK no problem。 0:4:24.320 --> 0:4:36.880 Yuanming Tian um，I sent you this this interval question in mailbox in，communicate in，communicate box。You can see this question because I because I。 0:4:37.840 --> 0:4:50.440 Yuanming Tian um。You can see communicate。Uh，you can you can see communicateumcommunicate box because II send you this interval question word。 0:4:53.600 --> 0:4:58.240 Jeannette Logan Sorry，I didn't。I didn't get that you were saying something about communication。 0:5:1.440 --> 0:5:3.320 Yuanming Tian Communication boxum。 0:5:5.990 --> 0:5:6.830 Yuanming Tian Let me see。 0:5:8.710 --> 0:5:8.830 Yuanming Tian um。 0:5:9.960 --> 0:5:10.80 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:5:11.50 --> 0:5:13.490 Yuanming Tian Or chat chat you can see chat。 0:5:14.70 --> 0:5:15.270 Jeannette Logan Ohh，I had to type。 0:5:15.780 --> 0:5:16.700 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:5:17.180 --> 0:5:21.220 Jeannette Logan Ohh，well，to be honest，I didn't do much typing。 0:5:23.140 --> 0:5:25.340 Jeannette Logan Everything。What was happening back then？ 0:5:27.850 --> 0:5:32.890 Jeannette Logan Because，uh，if things needed to be typed，I had a secretary who typed typed。 0:5:36.750 --> 0:5:38.310 Jeannette Logan Well，I learned I learned，um。 0:5:39.610 --> 0:5:45.170 Jeannette Logan I learned how to type，you're perfectly right。I wasn't a good typist，but I did learn how to type。 0:5:47.950 --> 0:5:48.870 Jeannette Logan What did they call it？ 0:5:50.900 --> 0:6:10.100 Jeannette Logan Like with with just with two two fingers not with all my fingers and I had to learn that when I got the job as a technical writer，that's right，OK？So when I became a technical writer，I had to learn how to type things and we had。 0:6:11.890 --> 0:6:15.690 Jeannette Logan So we had a central computer。I remember that。 0:6:16.950 --> 0:6:20.630 Jeannette Logan And we you，could you？ 0:6:21.10 --> 0:6:26.450 Jeannette Logan You could correct all your mistakes。I remember you learn how to correct your mistakes anyway。 0:6:29.290 --> 0:6:47.250 Jeannette Logan But to be honest，I think I used to write out my texts in longhand first and my and the secretary would type it in for the first time and then I would edit it afterwards。That's what that was。What happened at the beginning？We didn't have personal computers。 0:6:53.230 --> 0:6:53.590 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:6:48.150 --> 0:6:55.270 Jeannette Logan I didn't have a personal computer for quite some time。I don't think，certainly not in the nineteen seventies。 0:6:56.240 --> 0:7:16.240 Yuanming Tian OKumII send you a document in chat that's，that's，I mean，because I I'm afraid I will cause you to have a problem understanding，so I send I send this document in team team uh team uh in team chat。 0:7:20.480 --> 0:7:22.80 Jeannette Logan You want to send me a document？ 0:7:22.610 --> 0:7:27.210 Yuanming Tian Yeah，yeah，I have sent you document in team chat，you can see。 0:7:28.260 --> 0:7:28.740 Jeannette Logan Just a minute。 0:7:29.40 --> 0:7:30.0 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah。 0:7:32.890 --> 0:7:48.530 Yuanming Tian In chat document this is all interval question because I am afraid I will cause you have a problem to understand，so I send you this document that that's，I mean。 0:8:9.550 --> 0:8:10.390 Yuanming Tian Team chat。 0:8:10.220 --> 0:8:13.180 Jeannette Logan I'm I'm looking on my phone to see if I see any。 0:8:15.730 --> 0:8:18.690 Jeannette Logan You，you set you say you sent me some documents。 0:8:19.280 --> 0:8:21.440 Yuanming Tian um。 0:8:24.320 --> 0:8:25.800 Yuanming Tian You，you，you can see it。 0:8:35.710 --> 0:8:37.110 Yuanming Tian I send you again。 0:8:38.680 --> 0:8:38.920 Jeannette Logan Okay。 0:8:38.410 --> 0:8:42.90 Yuanming Tian I send you OKOKOKOKOK。 0:8:40.750 --> 0:8:43.470 Jeannette Logan Ohh，OK，but I thought something you sent me。 0:8:44.640 --> 0:8:44.880 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:8:47.860 --> 0:8:48.540 Jeannette Logan Then maybe stopping。 0:8:49.780 --> 0:8:50.660 Jeannette Logan No，that's not bad。 0:8:52.710 --> 0:8:53.110 Jeannette Logan Yeah。 0:8:54.450 --> 0:8:55.690 Jeannette Logan Confidentiality。 0:8:59.180 --> 0:9:0.620 Jeannette Logan Conversation participants。 0:9:8.660 --> 0:9:8.900 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:9:11.480 --> 0:9:12.840 Yuanming Tian Do you see it？ 0:9:14.480 --> 0:9:17.640 Jeannette Logan I was starting to think maybe there was some。 0:9:19.740 --> 0:9:20.260 Jeannette Logan Thank you for me。 0:9:34.110 --> 0:9:35.230 Jeannette Logan I haven't found anything。 0:9:44.860 --> 0:9:46.60 Jeannette Logan I haven't found anything here。 0:9:50.440 --> 0:9:57.800 Yuanming Tian I sent you document inumin team in team chat。 0:9:58.660 --> 0:10:0.60 Yuanming Tian um。Can you see it？ 0:10:3.890 --> 0:10:5.330 Jeannette Logan Ohh，it says just。 0:10:7.50 --> 0:10:8.90 Jeannette Logan Why is it？No。 0:10:24.620 --> 0:10:25.220 Jeannette Logan Ohh dear。 0:10:38.110 --> 0:10:40.110 Yuanming Tian Chat box chat box。 0:10:44.490 --> 0:10:46.50 Yuanming Tian Chat chat box in team。 0:10:49.560 --> 0:10:55.200 Yuanming Tian II send you document about interval question to understand。 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:3.680 Yuanming Tian I send this the document in chat box in chat box in team。 0:11:5.40 --> 0:11:7.800 Jeannette Logan Yeah，are you talking about question？ 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:11.120 Jeannette Logan You you。 0:11:7.410 --> 0:11:12.850 Yuanming Tian um，document。um，Adobe document about interval question。 0:11:13.530 --> 0:11:15.290 Jeannette Logan Did you just send it now？ 0:11:16.590 --> 0:11:17.70 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.200 Yuanming Tian No，no，just now I send you。 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.200 Jeannette Logan Did you send it by e-mail？ 0:11:26.100 --> 0:11:34.780 Yuanming Tian No no no um chat box chat box in uh chat box in in in team。 0:11:36.370 --> 0:11:38.610 Yuanming Tian You，you can。Yeah，you can see in team。 0:11:36.370 --> 0:11:39.610 Jeannette Logan You checked，you checked it out in in teams。 0:11:40.150 --> 0:11:41.390 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah yeah。 0:11:42.650 --> 0:11:42.930 Jeannette Logan Enjoy。 0:11:42.620 --> 0:11:44.700 Yuanming Tian You can see chat box，um？ 0:11:51.180 --> 0:11:53.100 Yuanming Tian I can't e-mail to you。 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:54.760 Jeannette Logan OK。 0:11:54.250 --> 0:11:59.770 Yuanming Tian um，but you could，um，but you，um，decor decorally to。 0:12:1.510 --> 0:12:4.670 Yuanming Tian To see in bug in chat box in team。 0:12:13.230 --> 0:12:15.910 Jeannette Logan So you're going to send me an e-mail，is that what you said？ 0:12:17.630 --> 0:12:18.790 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I sent you。 0:12:21.310 --> 0:12:22.190 Yuanming Tian Are you see it？ 0:12:25.430 --> 0:12:28.550 Yuanming Tian This is all interval question，uh，are you see it？ 0:12:30.990 --> 0:12:32.110 Jeannette Logan So I don't see it yet。 0:12:37.380 --> 0:12:38.700 Yuanming Tian II have send。 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:56.760 Yuanming Tian um，so I want，哎。So I want to continue my interval question。 0:12:59.60 --> 0:13:0.700 Yuanming Tian 偶太偶taiwa was a。 0:13:2.60 --> 0:13:3.500 Yuanming Tian Was be。 0:13:7.900 --> 0:13:8.820 Yuanming Tian Let me see。 0:13:14.230 --> 0:13:16.30 Yuanming Tian Whatever is the one？ 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:24.0 Yuanming Tian Bilingual or whatever is a bilingual school。How？ 0:13:30.890 --> 0:13:37.290 Yuanming Tian As because I want I afraid you don't understand，so I send you e-mail，can you see it？ 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.0 Jeannette Logan You're sending me an e-mail？ 0:13:40.330 --> 0:13:41.530 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:14:12.740 --> 0:14:12.940 Jeannette Logan Add it。 0:14:13.550 --> 0:14:14.830 Yuanming Tian 对okok okokok。 0:14:15.990 --> 0:14:21.790 Yuanming Tian This is all interval question，um，just now II ask two questions。 0:14:23.730 --> 0:14:25.210 Yuanming Tian You can，yeah。 0:14:27.150 --> 0:14:27.350 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:14:24.620 --> 0:14:41.180 Jeannette Logan It says the main question is cultural historians have argued that television，Hollywood，popular music and a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture otta。 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:47.720 Jeannette Logan Bilingual institution，and we want to better understand how anglophones and francophones related together。 0:14:48.990 --> 0:14:54.550 Jeannette Logan There was less electronics and Canadian society during the Seventies。How？ 0:14:54.850 --> 0:14:56.170 Jeannette Logan Pleasure time structured。 0:15:2.780 --> 0:15:3.180 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:14:58.110 --> 0:15:7.550 Jeannette Logan And what did students do for fun in the nineteen seventies？OK so II answered，the one about the hang up hangout spots。 0:15:9.880 --> 0:15:12.840 Yuanming Tian Yeah yeah，yeah，I know。 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:14.960 Yuanming Tian You answer two questions。Yeah。 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:22.880 Jeannette Logan Yeah and live a music？Yes，yes，we had lots of live music，which was great。 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.920 Jeannette Logan Now you're saying that Ottawa was a bilingual institution。 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:36.560 Jeannette Logan Back in the back in the Seventies，I mean，I studied。I studied French and high school。 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.480 Jeannette Logan But it was only when did I start？ 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.880 Jeannette Logan Actually，I started studying French。 0:15:49.330 --> 0:15:54.810 Jeannette Logan At in the evening classes again in in about nineteen seventy five。 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:57.960 Jeannette Logan And I。 0:16:0.560 --> 0:16:2.840 Jeannette Logan I took conversational French classes。 0:16:4.270 --> 0:16:8.630 Jeannette Logan And then in the early eighties，I。 0:16:10.500 --> 0:16:27.180 Jeannette Logan I joined a sailing group where we most of the members were francophone，so I started really improving my French by the nineteen eighties and now I am fully bilingual。 0:16:29.60 --> 0:16:30.940 Jeannette Logan I can read and write in in French。 0:16:31.930 --> 0:16:33.50 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:16:34.150 --> 0:16:34.310 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:37.960 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:16:39.70 --> 0:16:43.990 Jeannette Logan Did anglophones and francophones date each other during the nineteen seventies。 0:16:47.890 --> 0:16:49.450 Jeannette Logan Probably not very much。 0:16:50.250 --> 0:16:50.570 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:16:50.410 --> 0:16:51.690 Jeannette Logan I didn't have any。 0:16:53.30 --> 0:16:56.710 Jeannette Logan Francophone boyfriends that I'm aware of，I don't think so。 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:1.720 Jeannette Logan Use the park party culture。 0:17:3.600 --> 0:17:6.840 Jeannette Logan One of the things I remember in the in the nineteen seventies was。 0:17:8.620 --> 0:17:18.580 Jeannette Logan I was not a member of a sorority or a fraternity，but a lot of the boys wear and they used to have what they call these frat parties。 0:17:20.260 --> 0:17:25.740 Jeannette Logan At the frat house fraternity house，and they were really。 0:17:28.460 --> 0:17:36.900 Jeannette Logan There was a lot of drinking alcohol in those places and in those days I did not drink very much。Thank goodness，but I certainly remember。 0:17:38.700 --> 0:17:51.260 Jeannette Logan The some of the boys getting very，very drunk。I remember something called purple Jesus it was。It was a type of alcohol that they mixed with grape juice and it was horrible。 0:17:53.470 --> 0:18:0.790 Jeannette Logan So I did not drink very much of it，but other people did，um，the other thing I remember was wine。 0:18:1.910 --> 0:18:9.310 Jeannette Logan Very sweet in those days，people drank very sweet wine，which I do not like it all and now I get very dry wine now。 0:18:11.470 --> 0:18:13.310 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I know，okay？ 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.880 Jeannette Logan All the Vietnam War that。 0:18:19.100 --> 0:18:19.820 Jeannette Logan Was an issue。 0:18:21.660 --> 0:18:22.660 Jeannette Logan We had。 0:18:25.220 --> 0:18:32.420 Jeannette Logan Young men that were called draft dodgers，they came up to Canada and I certainly knew some draft dodgers。 0:18:35.630 --> 0:18:36.750 Jeannette Logan In the Seventies。 0:18:39.370 --> 0:18:58.410 Jeannette Logan And one place where I worked，yes，that was in the Seventies we had some draft dodgers that were employed at at the at the I worked at the Ontario Science Center，and we had some American young men working there in the audio visual department。I remember that。 0:18:59.250 --> 0:19:1.650 Jeannette Logan Yeah，the Vietnam War that was awful。 0:19:3.850 --> 0:19:17.210 Jeannette Logan I remember a cousin of mine and who lives in the states，was drafted，but thank goodness he had flat feet for the so they didn't accept them as a soldier，so he didn't have to go to Vietnam。But I remember。 0:19:18.420 --> 0:19:18.540 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:19:20.110 --> 0:19:20.590 Yuanming Tian Okay。 0:19:24.510 --> 0:19:28.270 Jeannette Logan Oh rock and roll that was very big。Um。 0:19:28.570 --> 0:19:36.250 Jeannette Logan The friends who are in a rock and roll band and these were friends from from from my high school back in Perry sound and。 0:19:37.770 --> 0:19:59.370 Jeannette Logan They had AA band in the beginning called the Georgian four，which was named after a Georgian Bay。That's where we came from near Georgia Bay and then later on they actually recorded music under the name chemos DHIMO。And if you go on to YouTube today，you can hear chemo。 0:20:0.870 --> 0:20:1.150 Jeannette Logan Now。 0:20:2.130 --> 0:20:2.410 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:20:3.990 --> 0:20:5.150 Yuanming Tian OK thanks。 0:20:7.230 --> 0:20:8.190 Jeannette Logan Youth culture。 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:17.720 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:20:9.380 --> 0:20:25.300 Jeannette Logan Um，there was。I wasn't aware of any kind of drugs other than cigarettes。Cigarettes were all my goodness when I talked about the bars，that was one of the worst things about the bars that was so smoky，it was awful。I did。I never smoked。 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.560 Jeannette Logan So I guess I probably tried a little marijuana now and then，but I didn't really。 0:20:32.740 --> 0:20:33.620 Yuanming Tian Yeah，and。 0:20:33.250 --> 0:20:36.890 Jeannette Logan I didn't really adopt any drugs at all。 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:39.480 Yuanming Tian Yeah，I think。 0:20:42.60 --> 0:20:47.140 Jeannette Logan But I do remember to talk about psychedelic drugs like LSD。That was。 0:20:49.410 --> 0:20:52.650 Jeannette Logan Talked about，but I was not familiar of any。 0:20:54.980 --> 0:20:59.900 Jeannette Logan Any um use of LSD in my friend。 0:21:2.30 --> 0:21:5.150 Jeannette Logan Now the next section is called the female experience。 0:21:5.560 --> 0:21:7.280 Yuanming Tian Yeah，female experience。 0:21:8.280 --> 0:21:13.880 Jeannette Logan It says cultural historian to written a lot about what they call the second wave feminism。 0:21:14.670 --> 0:21:14.830 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:21:14.860 --> 0:21:26.20 Jeannette Logan That as part of the counter coach of movement women during this early seventies，sought to breakdown gender barriers。Does this argument resonate with your experience？Yes，very much so。 0:21:27.740 --> 0:21:28.860 Jeannette Logan I was certainly a。 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:35.40 Jeannette Logan A woman of that second wave feminism，I read a lot about it。 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:44.280 Jeannette Logan I never changed my name。Jeanette Logan is my birthday，even though I have been be。 0:21:44.580 --> 0:21:52.700 Jeannette Logan II never changed my name。I always thought it was important to keep my own identity。I always had my own bank accounts。 0:21:55.460 --> 0:21:58.580 Jeannette Logan That was important，but also in the nineteen seventy。 0:21:59.700 --> 0:22:14.340 Jeannette Logan We were leading up to the the royal Commission on the status of women in the nineteen seventies here in Canada，and those were very important women to us。They。 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.640 Jeannette Logan The way to to our freedom。 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.520 Jeannette Logan Or，our independent。That's right that way。 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:43.240 Jeannette Logan And in nineteen seventy five，that was the year the year of the woman，nineteen seventy five，but also I could say a big influence for women was the availability of the birth control field that came became available in the nineteen sixties。 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.600 Jeannette Logan Till the late nineteen sixties，and that was。 0:22:49.980 --> 0:22:56.140 Jeannette Logan That certainly involved a lot，a lot more sexual freedom than before。 0:22:58.760 --> 0:22:59.280 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:23:2.470 --> 0:23:3.270 Yuanming Tian OK thanks。 0:23:5.30 --> 0:23:11.30 Jeannette Logan To what extent did your generation believe that your parents notion about gender or family and dating were outdated？ 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:16.520 Jeannette Logan Well yes，I agree with that statement，except that my mother。 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:39.800 Jeannette Logan She was not allowed to go to university when she she graduated the top of her class in high school and but it was at the beginning of the Second World War for her too，and it was important that she went out to work while my father went to overseas to fight。But。 0:23:51.610 --> 0:23:51.770 Yuanming Tian oh 0:23:42.90 --> 0:23:53.170 Jeannette Logan My mother was certainly in favor of education for all of all of our children and my father too。My family supported higher education，so that was important。 0:23:54.540 --> 0:23:54.660 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:23:55.440 --> 0:24:0.280 Jeannette Logan What part of Canadian society was most out of whack in need of fixing？ 0:24:2.280 --> 0:24:7.600 Jeannette Logan Good question。Oh well，job opportunities，job opportunities were poor for women。 0:24:9.400 --> 0:24:9.520 Jeannette Logan I。 0:24:9.740 --> 0:24:14.780 Jeannette Logan Could remember，and II could quote you when。 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:26.280 Jeannette Logan For a job as a medical because I studied sciences and I had worked in medical labs at a hospital and also at clinics。 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:57.760 Jeannette Logan I could I could take blood and other kinds of and do analysis，and I applied for a job。This is before I started teaching。I applied for a job，is to work in a laboratory and the man interviewing me told actually said to me，why would I hire you？You will just get married and have children and I won't have an employee anymore。I was twenty one years old and this is what he。 0:24:59.20 --> 0:25:15.140 Jeannette Logan He told me at the interview，so that was not very encouraging。I have to admit，so that's what I decided to go to，to go to teachers college because I wanted to help the next generation of children know more about science。So that's when I started teaching science in school。 0:25:17.500 --> 0:25:20.660 Jeannette Logan So I actually proved them wrong。I worked my whole life。 0:25:23.290 --> 0:25:23.770 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:25:25.980 --> 0:25:43.620 Jeannette Logan But there certainly was a glass ceiling that was II counted that throat in my whole career when I was still at university，I my original intentions were to be be a doctor and coming out of high。 0:25:51.40 --> 0:25:51.160 Yuanming Tian 。 0:25:44.180 --> 0:25:51.260 Jeannette Logan It's a valedictorian of my class and I had been accepted at three universities and。 0:25:54.50 --> 0:25:57.810 Jeannette Logan Throttle，Queens and western，and。 0:25:59.610 --> 0:26:2.90 Jeannette Logan But western offered me a very good scholarship。 0:26:3.770 --> 0:26:16.410 Jeannette Logan And my I was the eldest of six children and I thought that would be really helpful to have the scholarship，so I accepted their invitation to go to western，and then I discovered that。 0:26:18.290 --> 0:26:32.50 Jeannette Logan That I wouldn't be going into what was called pre Med in those days I had。I was going into AA standard science program and then I had to reapply for medical school after two years。 0:26:33.350 --> 0:26:56.790 Jeannette Logan And when I reapplied after two years，I did not get in。They had a quota on the number of women in in medical school at western。I think it was the same everywhere，but only twenty percent of the class could be female，so eighty percent of class was male and twenty percent was female。And my。 0:26:58.50 --> 0:27:12.290 Jeannette Logan Grades uh，I had seventy four point something percent，but that was not good enough。I had male colleagues in my chemistry class who got in with sixty six percent，but I couldn't get in with with seventy four。 0:27:14.290 --> 0:27:22.10 Jeannette Logan So I continued on in chemistry and graduated，but I didn't want to work in a laboratory，so that's how I ended up。 0:27:22.870 --> 0:27:27.870 Jeannette Logan Teaching but II don't regret it though I enjoy the teaching。 0:27:30.780 --> 0:27:36.260 Jeannette Logan OK，so where are we at that？That was out of whack，that's for sure，and that was injustice too。 0:27:37.650 --> 0:27:38.850 Yuanming Tian I also like teaching。 0:27:39.820 --> 0:27:44.540 Jeannette Logan You feel that the political system was democratic，fair and responsive to citizens needs。 0:27:46.220 --> 0:27:51.180 Jeannette Logan Well，I was quite involved with politics too。In those days，I certainly campaigned for。 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:57.440 Jeannette Logan For for Pierre Elliott Trudeau。I was part of the youth。 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:29.360 Jeannette Logan Do you use campaigning for for，uh，during that election？Um so II，actually my，my，my family was quite involved with politics at the local level，so it wasn't unusual，so I was I we we all look forward to having Pierre Trudeau as our as our Prime Minister。He seemed to be，he seemed to be more with it than。 0:28:30.820 --> 0:28:34.180 Jeannette Logan Than some of the other ones once we had before。 0:28:40.270 --> 0:28:43.470 Jeannette Logan OK，do you wanna go on to question number three now？ 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:44.600 Yuanming Tian Yeah。 0:28:45.850 --> 0:28:58.730 Jeannette Logan Cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill，legalization of abortion and dissemination of the free love ideology change，gender relations and dating practice in the early seventies。 0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:1.520 Jeannette Logan Yes，I would agree with that statement。 0:29:4.490 --> 0:29:10.210 Jeannette Logan I definitely，uh。I first took the birth control pill because I had very painful。 0:29:12.10 --> 0:29:30.330 Jeannette Logan Menstrual periods and I。But I can remember have being embarrassed going to pick up the the birth control pills at the drug store because the pharmacist or the person dispensing them would give you AA sly look about what，what are you going to do this weekend？I can remember being very。 0:29:31.390 --> 0:29:32.590 Jeannette Logan Improper，if you ask me？ 0:29:38.890 --> 0:29:49.130 Jeannette Logan Uh date with with a lot of dating at university。Uh，there were lots of，uh，events like dances and uh other。 0:29:51.50 --> 0:30:2.490 Jeannette Logan Other um social events that happened and I was a very social person，so I participated a lot of them and I had a number of boyfriends，but only。 0:30:2.710 --> 0:30:8.550 Jeannette Logan Few of them became intimate boyfriends or very few to be honest，but some。 0:30:10.930 --> 0:30:11.450 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:30:15.60 --> 0:30:17.540 Jeannette Logan How did your generation look at family and marriage？ 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.600 Jeannette Logan Well，yes，that was，um。 0:30:25.710 --> 0:30:26.710 Jeannette Logan You basically，you know？ 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:31.720 Jeannette Logan You're basically where it's supposed to get pregnant。Unfortunately，I did。 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.520 Jeannette Logan And getting it getting an abortion was even though it was supposedly legal。 0:30:39.260 --> 0:30:39.580 Jeannette Logan Was not。 0:30:40.740 --> 0:30:57.660 Jeannette Logan Not readily available。Let's put it that way and I ended up having um，an illegal abortion which was not a pleasant experience。Well，the experience wasn't too bad，but the aftermath was unpleasant and I ended up in the hospital，so that was。 0:30:58.370 --> 0:31:1.490 Jeannette Logan Not a good experience，I have to admit。 0:31:2.600 --> 0:31:4.960 Jeannette Logan But that was the way things were those days。 0:31:7.150 --> 0:31:7.630 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:31:13.500 --> 0:31:22.380 Jeannette Logan Ohh，I remember when my my sister got pregnant as well，and，um，this was well with a little bit after me，of course，but。 0:31:24.340 --> 0:31:26.340 Jeannette Logan One and she。 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:52.320 Jeannette Logan Miscarriage and she went to the local hospital and I remember my mother refused to go and visit her in the hospital because we lived in a small town and she was not going to go and and show her face because her daughter was there who had a miscarriage so that sort of shows what the feeling was about having a child out of wedlock and not being married。 0:31:57.660 --> 0:32:3.220 Jeannette Logan OK，so the next section is called sexuality and harassment。 0:32:6.300 --> 0:32:15.900 Jeannette Logan Many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment to what extent the university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe。 0:32:17.190 --> 0:32:21.830 Jeannette Logan Well，I have to be honest，I never felt unsafe，so I'm not。 0:32:23.730 --> 0:32:26.650 Jeannette Logan All the dances and whatever did have monitors there。 0:32:28.350 --> 0:32:30.110 Jeannette Logan I would suspect if somebody。 0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.760 Jeannette Logan Thought they were in trouble。They might be able to get some help。 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.360 Jeannette Logan But，but to be honest。 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:42.440 Jeannette Logan I didn't have。 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:52.760 Jeannette Logan Any problems at university that I recall feeling harassed or I was pretty good at looking after myself，I guess？ 0:32:54.590 --> 0:32:55.750 Jeannette Logan Speaking up for myself。 0:33:3.400 --> 0:33:16.480 Jeannette Logan What our generation is interested in a free love movement。What was the perception of premarital sex on the campus in the Seventies？Was it viewed，negatively accepted or even encouraged？ 0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:24.680 Jeannette Logan I don't recall it being encouraged，but it wasn't。It wasn't unacceptable。 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:33.720 Jeannette Logan But when you say free love though，I certainly wouldn't have was never an adherent of of different sexual partners at the same time。 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:47.760 Jeannette Logan II was one one boyfriend at a time person and usually a boyfriend that I'd had for for a period of time，not just not just the first date kind of arrangement。 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:50.240 Yuanming Tian Ohh OK。 0:33:58.980 --> 0:34:2.140 Jeannette Logan Of your parents generation worry about premarital sex。 0:34:4.70 --> 0:34:10.990 Jeannette Logan Well，if they did，I don't remember them talking to me about it other than I guess it was sort of a understood that。 0:34:12.370 --> 0:34:14.530 Jeannette Logan That was a dangerous thing to to do。 0:34:16.410 --> 0:34:20.450 Jeannette Logan Because，well，unless you were，unless you were on the birth control pill。 0:34:22.630 --> 0:34:26.870 Jeannette Logan Which once it was available，I was，I was，I was on the birth control pill。 0:34:47.10 --> 0:34:47.130 Yuanming Tian Huh？ 0:34:28.330 --> 0:34:58.50 Jeannette Logan Years like all the time，but although I do remember these，they used to say that you shouldn't stay on the brisket tool for for a long period of time and they advised you to get off it for a couple of months each year。That that's what I got pregnant。That's what I remember，and I could tell you that unfortunately，poorest poor sexual education didn't help my boyfriend at the time，who had been a boyfriend for quite some time。 0:34:59.630 --> 0:35:24.30 Jeannette Logan Didn't realize that he could impregnate me before he had an orgasm，so he would determine ignorant because he didn't know that he didn't know that information，but that was that was the cause of me getting pregnant because he was unaware even though and I can remember I tried to talk him out of it，but that didn't work。Come to think of it。 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:26.600 Yuanming Tian OK no problem。 0:35:29.690 --> 0:35:32.10 Yuanming Tian It shouldn't be all finished。 0:35:33.620 --> 0:35:35.340 Jeannette Logan Have I answered all the questions now？ 0:35:36.550 --> 0:35:38.590 Yuanming Tian Uh，maybe no question。 0:35:39.990 --> 0:35:41.910 Yuanming Tian Let me see just a second。 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:43.40 Yuanming Tian um。 0:35:44.410 --> 0:35:46.650 Yuanming Tian Just a second I want to see。 0:35:48.250 --> 0:35:49.730 Yuanming Tian Maybe it's no question。 0:35:50.220 --> 0:35:51.140 Jeannette Logan No more questions。 0:35:51.580 --> 0:35:52.580 Yuanming Tian Yeah，maybe，um？ 0:35:53.110 --> 0:35:53.470 Jeannette Logan Maybe。 0:35:58.40 --> 0:36:0.440 Jeannette Logan Are you asking？Is there anything else I wish to add？ 0:36:5.450 --> 0:36:8.530 Yuanming Tian Uh，yeah，yeah，you can。You can do it。 0:36:14.260 --> 0:36:25.300 Jeannette Logan Well，um，I would say that nineteen seventies was a，um。There were a lot of things happening in the nineteen seventies，not just with the women's liberation。 0:36:27.60 --> 0:36:33.660 Jeannette Logan The other thing that was that was coming on board then was talk about the environment。 0:36:35.700 --> 0:36:39.460 Jeannette Logan We were already having started。 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:47.920 Jeannette Logan I can remember I was recycling bottles and cans and papers from the beginning in the nineteen seventies in Ottawa。 0:36:49.570 --> 0:36:49.810 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:36:49.300 --> 0:36:56.60 Jeannette Logan Um，I lived in，uh，I lived in Ottawa during the nineteen seventies，and um。 0:36:57.900 --> 0:36:59.180 Jeannette Logan And I also remember。 0:37:0.780 --> 0:37:10.620 Jeannette Logan Learning about because I worked at the Ontario Science Center at one point in Toronto，and we had AA new。 0:37:10.700 --> 0:37:12.860 Jeannette Logan Exhibition area called。 0:37:15.140 --> 0:37:29.980 Jeannette Logan Planet earth and it was based on ecology，so I learned about ecology in the relationship between the environment and and everything in the environment，and I。 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:42.120 Jeannette Logan Learned about groups of people that were working to alert us to the problems that were appearing in our environment，and there was a。 0:37:44.100 --> 0:37:46.540 Jeannette Logan Group in Switzerland，I think。 0:37:50.150 --> 0:38:2.670 Jeannette Logan I'm trying to know what they were called though，but they。They produced a book called limits to growth，and if I remember correctly it was published in nineteen seventy five and it basically said that。 0:38:4.550 --> 0:38:16.190 Jeannette Logan We couldn't keep on just thinking we could grow bigger and better，bigger and better every year and not destroy the environment basically so。 0:38:16.610 --> 0:38:22.730 Jeannette Logan And Dr Suzuki was David Suzuki was was beginning in those years。 0:38:24.530 --> 0:38:27.930 Jeannette Logan He he was the original produc。 0:38:28.610 --> 0:38:35.10 Jeannette Logan The radio program called quirks and quarks，which is on CBC radio still today。 0:38:36.270 --> 0:38:45.710 Jeannette Logan And um and and he was talking about the environment back back then，and so when I，my career towards。 0:38:47.550 --> 0:38:48.510 Jeannette Logan Towards the end。 0:38:51.350 --> 0:39:12.670 Jeannette Logan I was working in the field of environment and and this was because of what I learned back in the nineteen seventies。I was now into the nineteen nineties，but I was really conscious of of the concern for the environment and look at us。Look at us now like。 0:39:14.670 --> 0:39:27.310 Jeannette Logan How many，how many more years？I would agree about？Thirty years later，after the nineteen nineties and we're talking about a climate crisis，but we were already talking about the potential for a climate crisis in the nineteen seventies，so。 0:39:29.70 --> 0:39:36.30 Jeannette Logan It was a very important decade if you asked me and I。 0:39:36.230 --> 0:39:38.230 Jeannette Logan At A at a very significant。 0:39:38.690 --> 0:39:48.290 Jeannette Logan On not only my life personally，but also my career and and my activity，my activism today。 0:39:50.70 --> 0:39:56.150 Jeannette Logan I am still active in in society，trying to help the environment and。 0:39:57.350 --> 0:40:1.590 Jeannette Logan Other important things。So like I said，that's about all I wanted to say。 0:40:3.600 --> 0:40:4.880 Yuanming Tian OK sounds good。 0:40:8.90 --> 0:40:18.50 Jeannette Logan Well，thank you。Thank you，Philip。Um for giving me this opportunity to share my history，I really enjoyed it and I hope I haven't forgotten anything significant。 0:40:18.890 --> 0:40:23.890 Yuanming Tian Ohh yeah yeah I buy I buy。 0:40:24.110 --> 0:40:47.510 Yuanming Tian Sir，you give me a opportunity to now，uh，the Canada history because I'm international student，so II prefer to now other countries history such as my hometown country，my hometown history，so I don't I。 0:40:48.490 --> 0:40:56.930 Yuanming Tian um，clear the Kandahar history，but you tell me today，so I'm very thank you，um，I thank you very much。 0:40:59.430 --> 0:40:59.630 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:41:0.810 --> 0:41:1.290 Yuanming Tian OK。 0:41:2.220 --> 0:41:2.380 Yuanming Tian um？ 0:41:1.0 --> 0:41:30.680 Jeannette Logan Thank you。Thank you for this and thank you for your efforts Philip and uh content。I hope I also enjoy history even though I studied sciences。Um，I found out as an adult later that I didn't know enough about history，so I've I've read quite a bit of his history for Canada and other countries as well，and it's a it's a。It's a strong interest of mine amongst other interests。 0:41:32.40 --> 0:41:32.640 Jeannette Logan Bye bye for now。 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:34.440 Yuanming Tian OKbye。 0:41:37.420 --> 0:41:38.780 Yuanming Tian Have a nice day bye。 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:40.120 Jeannette Logan Goodbye。 0:41:40.730 --> 0:41:41.290 Yuanming Tian um，bye Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Logan, Jeanette (interview) Subject The topic of the resource Analyze the experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the 1970s. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yuanming Tian Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Microsoft Teams Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-26 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, 42 minutes 1970s Bilingualism Dating Drugs Gender Gender Discrimination Marriage medical school Ottawa Hangouts Party Culture Pill Popular Music Royal Commission on the Status of Women Second-Wave Feminism University of Ottawa Vietnam Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Price, Rebecca Location The location of the interview Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Rebecca: Okay, We are recording. All right. So one of the first things that we're talking about is the impact of popular culture. So cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music and a consumer culture built around automobiles has created a more integrated North American popular culture. So being that uOttawa is a bilingual university, we want to know a bit more about how the Anglophones and the Francophones related together on this. So to get the ball rolling, I'll ask you, um, nowadays, when students have free time, they tend to gravitate towards electronics and social media and such. The seventies didn't have as many electronics. So what, what did you do in your free time? BK: Well, when I was on campus, there was , uh, what’s the building where the cafeteria is that the, you know, the big central building? The library runs off it- Rebecca: Uh, Lamereux? BK: Yeah. And there was a down on the ground floor, like there was kind of a lowered floor with stairs around it. Rebecca: Oh yes! Like kind of a pit in the ground a little bit? BK: Yeah. So we, you know, if you're in between classes, go and grab a coffee and sit there and just strike up conversations. The other was al- just seemed to recall there was always something going on at uh- tables set up with interest groups. I remember the Communist Party having a table and you know, just sort of uh, yeah. So I was more in person gravitating and that was like the university centre, I thought of it that way. Rebecca: I would still say it is for sure. BK: Yeah. Rebecca: So your free time was mostly spent with other people, not necessarily by yourself. BK: Yeah. Yeah. Rebecca: I would say that's very different nowadays, unfortunately. Um, so would you say that that's one of the more popular hangout spots on campus or were there some other spots on or off campus that you remember? BK: Well, you know, it depends. The- I did two degrees at University of Ottawa in the 1970s, so my first degree was Arts and graduated in 76 and the second was in law and the law degree- the law school Fauteux Hall. Once you were in there, like, that was a very different experience. So I would, uh, there’s on the third floor, there's a lounge and free time would be spent in there, we’d be playing bridge, that kind of thing. But it was a lot more, the law school, um, it’s a lot more intense in the sense that you’re- we were 180 students in the first year and we were three groups of um, 60. So I was in Group B and intense friendships with people that were in that group and people were in that year that we, you know, maintain through I mean, it's 50 years later or, less so with people that I was friends with than Arts. So maybe more contacts, but fewer deeper connections. Rebecca: These deeper connections, are they people you crossed paths with professionally after having graduated? BK: Some of them, some of them. And but others just, we’ve just, you know, kept in touch. We spent a lot of time together and it's law school is it's very- it's it's super hard. Rebecca: So you really bonded. BK: So you sort of bond over that. Yeah. Yeah. Rebecca: Um, did you attend any live events, theater or music or anything during your time there? BK: Um, I don't really recall live event- not theater. I don't think that, but certainly dances. There were dances that were organized. Rebecca: Put on by the school or like the student union? BK: Student Union. I don't know who, but I remember there were dances with, uh, I can remember with foreign students so that foreign students would get to meet, uh, people. But we did a lot like in the seventies. I would say that was a big feature. Like if you wanted to go out, maybe now you go to clubs there and then it was discotheques. So dancing was a big thing. And you know, it was quite a normal thing to get dressed up and go dancing. And there were dances at the university. Rebecca: Wow, that's fabulous. What kind of- what did dressed up mean in the seventies? BK: Uh, well, I think pretty much what it means now. You put on a dress- Rebecca: Yeah, like you had on party attire kind of thing? BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Wow. All right, So, again, being that uOttawa is a bilingual institution, how linguistically integrated would you say it was between English and French in that were you in the same classes, programs or after school things? BK: I think it was more after school things. So the group that I hung out with when- in undergrad was definitely a very bilingual group. So there were lots of I'd say there is a core of maybe 12 people that I hung out with a lot and the half of them were Francophone and from northern Ontario, I seem to recall, because I know I visited up on Blind River with one after graduation. So and that- we attended our activities where we'd go out, you know, there was a jazz club and that kind of thing. Things down in the market. Um, there was a club called Le Hibou, the Owl, Le Hibou, um, and was that on campus or close to campus? And uh, the- that was definitely a place where there was live music and, you know, different different groups and things like that Rebecca: Did you feel while you were on campus that you were in the middle of a campus or that you were really integrated with downtown? BK: When I came to OttawaU, this’ a roundabout way of answering the question. Um, I had done a year of Cegep in Montreal. I was at Marianopolis College and my dad was in the military, and so he was transferred from the base at Saint Hubert to the National Headquarters, Defence Headquarters, and I could have stayed in Montreal and finished my program at the um, Marianopolis and then I probably would have gone to McGill because it was kind of right across the street. And, you know, that would have been a completely different path. But I was a little bit intimidated about living in Montreal on my own, so I was 17, turning 18. The, cause- Marianopolis didn't have dorms, so I came to Ottawa and I went to the campus at Carleton and I went to the campus at OttawaU. And I thought Carleton was awful. I was just I just yeah, I thought, Oh my gosh, there's nobody here. There's all these tunnels. Like, where are we? It's like, Yeah, cold. I just did not have a good vibe about Carleton and but with OttawaU I just felt, Oh yeah, this place is cool, it's lively. There's lots of people around. There’s English and French. It just sounds. And I said, no, that’s where I want to go. Rebecca: Wow. That is very, very interesting. I see what you mean about the difference between Carleton and uOttawa, for sure. It's definitely a draw. Um, so sort of in a similar vein, going back to the bilingualism were- nowadays what I find when I look across the campus, I would say that most English students are not bilingual, whereas most Francophones are bilingual. Would you say that was the same case back in the seventies? BK: Uh, yes. Pro- probably. But, you know, it was a smaller place and I don't know that the lines were quite as well drawn. So again, I would contrast the arts experience with the law school. The- then I think as now, you could take the same course in either language and you could write in your own language. Rebecca: Okay, right. BK: So you wouldn’t be- so the idea was you wouldn't be docked marks. But I did feel like, Oh, I don't know. Do I really trust that? You know, what if the professor just, you know, I'm writing in English and they might not be, um, they might be prejudiced against me and I might not get as good a grade because I wanted to go to law school so my grades were important to me. But I think that because the crowd that I hung out with was bilingual, I don't know that I noticed that. But I do know that I had classmates that did not get their degree because you had to pass a test in the other language. So it was mandatory. And so there was- everybody had to- whether you were Francophone or Anglophone, you had to prove your bilingualism before you could get your degree. And so maybe that wasn't the case I got at law school. So my experience in law school was like, no, I lost a lot of my French, um, that was all in English. It was very much more siloed that way. The civil law and the common law students did not mingle together. There wasn't a French common law program, that started the year after I graduated. So it's but I think it was that was a really good way of enforcing this is a bilingual campus. And what they did- what you did was you wrote an aptitude- like you did a test and you were streamed. So you had to take a class in your second language and you had to pass it. So when I took the test and I had just come from Montreal and I was bilingual and I just was put in this class and was just like, Oh my God, these people don't know anything. They have no idea. This is nuts. And so I went and complained at the Office of Second Languages and I said, you know, and I was speaking to the lady in French, and she said, but you're bilingual. I said, yeah, but look at the class it put me in. And so she looked at my score on the whatever the placement test, the proficiency test, it was pretty bad. And I said, well, it doesn't reflect my ability, so put me in a better class. And that was- and I remember that class really well, was a really, um, our teacher was from France. It was a small group and you know, so it was good. And you- that was the only requirement in that class passed that class and that was a uh, what I it was an essential to getting their degree, as I recall it. That's how it was. But I know, I know that's how it was. Rebecca: Yeah, wow. I kind of partly wish that that were still the case because I think there's there's quite a divide right now between English and French, and that's really unfortunate. Yeah, we have such an incredible institution, but there is such a separation in a lot of ways. BK: Yeah. And, and maybe my experience would have been different going in as a unilingual anglophone. Rebecca: Mm hmm. That’s true. BK: I might not have been hanging out with the people that I hung out with, so, you know, so my experience might be unique, but. Rebecca: Yeah. So in a similar vein, was there a dating culture between English and French speakers? BK: I don't know that there was a dating culture was the seventies. Rebecca: Okay, okay. BK: We didn't date. Rebecca: You didn't date. BK: I went to clubs and we danced. And out of that, you might meet somebody that you would go out with. But yeah, I don’t know what a dating culture is. Rebecca: Okay, so. But would would French and English people be interested in each other? There wasn't really a a boundary to cross there at all? BK: Well, not in my world. Rebecca: Right. Okay. Yeah. Because you were going into it bilingual around bilingual people- BK: Yeah. Rebecca: So it was just the same. BK: Yeah Rebecca: Okay. Um, so I guess, actually, you've touched on this a little bit. Um, we nowadays use, like, party culture as anything happening outside of the classroom. So how would you describe the, the party culture of the seventies when you were there? BK: Um, oh, I, I mean, apart from the Panda game, I don't think there's anything that's like, what happens now? Yeah. Rebecca: Okay. Like house parties or things like that. BK: Well, there'd be house parties for sure, and- but they didn't spill out into the street and cause riots and that kind of stuff. No, there was nothing like it apart from the Panda game. And I think that was pretty much, as I recall, just confined to the Panda game. And and the vicinity. But we would have parties, we would go out, that kind of thing. Rebecca: But was there a sense of rivalry between uOttawa and Carlton at the time? BK: Yes. Yes, Yes. Rebecca: That has that has lasted. Yes. To this day. So taking maybe a bit of a heavier tern. Um, we in our class talk a lot about and hypothesize how students of the seventies felt about the Vietnam War. So how would you describe what the student body thought about the war while you were there? BK: Um, I don't know that the Vietnam War came up a lot in…When they- when I was there. I don't, but I do, um, I'd say in the late sixties was much more of a protest culture and things had- there was a big difference. And as I recall, there's a big difference between what happened in the sixties and what happened in the seventies. And I can remember Professor- one professor saying, no, you know, we were so much more complacent and not activist enough to… Rebecca: Speaking to you as students? BK: As students, yeah, that that you weren’t- that we weren't, you know, we're more self-interested like what kind of jobs we're going to get in that kind of thing. So a lot more establishment than you know- So a professor from the sixties was disappointed in his students in the seventies. The Vietnam War was definitely a feature of my childhood, my dad's military, so, and he had colleagues who fought, who- you know American counterparts who fought in the war. That would be, um, treated terribly when they got back because the war was so unpopular. So that was one aspect. Then there was terrible things, but, you know, it was, um, it was a brutal war and the rightness and wrongness of it is one thing, but it was a brutal war and and it was not, uh, -but I think the protests, race, the Vietnam War, um, I’d say in the seventies, the environmental concerns were definitely that was something I was interested in. And in some respects it's gotten better and in some respects it's gotten worse. Rebecca: Yes. So speaking about the sixties, the sort of rock and roll artists of the time were were promoting various forms of protest. And so do you do you feel for you that rock and roll, when you experienced it in the seventies as a student, was still tied to that sort of against the systems, or was it more just some music you consumed? BK: Music you loved. Rebecca: Okay. Okay. Interesting. Do you feel that your parents generation viewed rock and roll in the seventies the same way, or did it make more of a statement to them? BK: They were mostly just telling me to turn it down. I don't think they had time to think about it. Rebecca: That’s very fair. Yeah, I think I experienced some of that from my parents too. So I guess it goes on and on. Um, so getting a little bit more taboo possibly. So you can answer or not depending on how you feel. But some youth culture voices in the seventies promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent that you know of were drugs available or accessible and campus life? BK: They were very available. Very accessible. And used a lot. Rebecca: Used a lot? Would it be like during classes that people would be on drugs or was it more part of an after school activity? BK: I think would be more of an after school activity. I mean, there may well have been I know for sure there are people with substance abuse issues. Um, that impacted their schooling. And so yeah, there I'm sure there were kids that were stoned in class and, and I’ve had classmates have seen with the shakes when bars not open till 11. So, yeah. Rebecca: Okay. Was there a discussion about danger, about drugs at the time? BK: Uh, yeah. For sure. Rebecca: So there were people who, who had concerns and then some people who not as much or. BK: I don't think we were very different. Rebecca: Okay. Gotcha. BK: Don’t think young people necessarily think about that but in terms of, you know, just say no to drugs, all the. Yeah. Rebecca: Yeah. Would- Okay. Yeah. Um, so nowadays a lot of my generation, we think about the seventies, it's, it's sort of a groovy sort of tripping kind of space and time. Um, were psychedelic drugs a part of the, the culture on campus at all? BK: Well, LSD, these are the drugs, LSD, cocaine and marijuana. That was pretty much it. Rebecca: Okay. And when you say it was like accessible on campus, was that through there was like a hook up that people knew about and students or like how how dis it integrate itself- BK: Well there wasn't a cannabis store like there is now. Rebecca: Absolutely. Okay. All right. So that's everything that I've got on on that sort of section. So moving on to our second theme, which is the female experience on campus. So cultural historians have written a lot about what they call the second wave of feminism, and that as part of the counterculture movement, women during the early seventies sought to break down some gender barriers. Um, does that resonate with your experience at the University of Ottawa? BK: Mm hmm. It does. Rebecca: Yeah. Well, you were a female in law school then. Did you feel isolated in that or…? BK: No, We were a precisely one third of the class, so if we were 180, there were, um, 60 women in the first year. And the- by the end of the third year, we'd lost a few women and a few men, but more, I think perhaps more women than men. So certainly the being, uh, going to law school as a woman was not a standardized route. And the- when I left law school and when I was in practice, I would say I saw that more, um, you know, but there were women in the law groups. There were you know, there was some bonding. But I honestly, I enjoyed dating. So and I don't date women. So that was more it it really was like, hey, this is a lots of single men here. Rebecca: So it's sort of exciting to be sitting amongst the sea of them. BK: Well, yeah, it was fun there. I can say it was there was always… Rebecca: You had your pick of the litter with them then. So did you feel that there were programs or clubs or activities where women were either less present or less welcome? BK: Oh, hockey for sure. Yeah. And that was a barrier. And I think that's one of the things like this idea that, you know, there was a hockey intramural hockey and that would be something that would exclude women. And then there were a few women that played hockey. And it's not so it's not like it is now. Like that, I think was one of the barriers. So that missing out in the locker room talk or the golf talk, that kind of thing. And that's when golf, not when we were students, but later on the, uh, it was I would say it persists even now, my graduation from or my the day I was called to the bar was April 13th, 1981, and there's a group of classmates, all male, that meet every April 13th at the Prest- at the Prescott, where we used to go after the bar and, you know, sometimes I get invited, sometimes I don’t. I'm just like, Guys, come on, it's 50 years on. Let's just start- Rebecca: So still to this day you weren’t invited. Or you are or aren’t. BK: I ah, yeah. I mean, I could always myself remember think, you know, email Henry and say what's what time I'm going to be there. At our 25th anniversary and I was the only woman that showed up and I went to the bathroom and I'm calling classmates. Come on, get down here. Rebecca: Wow. Wow. That almost shocks me quite a bit that that is still something that persists now. BK: I don't think it's and I don't think it's a conscious thing. Rebecca: Of course. Right. BK: It’s not a conscious Not a conscious thing, but yeah, it does. Rebecca: Wow. BK: So so those guys that formed a tight group, right. Hung around still, you know, they went on fishing trips and that kind of stuff. But I personally wouldn't be interested in going fishing, so maybe that's not such a bad thing. But, you know, and maybe there are groups of women. I've been in a book club for 40 years, so that's outside of the but with classmates from law school. And when we graduated thought, well, we need to- And honestly, if a man tried to join us… No no no no… Rebecca: Okay. So you made your own space, as women, to be together. BK: Well yeah. That’s right. And so even though like many of us that went to law school together and some of the husbands may want to sit down and chat, yeah no, and we all know we all went to school together, but this is a woman only space. Rebecca: Yes. Wow. What do you think that that sort of- did you feel that sort of bond with women while you were doing your studies there? And did you rely on each other just being there or were you really doing your thing? BK: I was just doing my own thing. Rebecca: Yeah. Love that. BK: Well, that I put my head down and work. Yeah. Rebecca: Did you feel while you were in the classrooms that as a woman or looking at other women, that they were less likely to raise their hand or be called upon or or things like that? BK: Um, no, I don't think we would tolerate that. But what we did have was at law school in particular, one criminal law professor who was just vile. Yeah. Rebecca: Towards women. BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Like in, in his treatment or in his thoughts? BK: Well it was his treatment, his examples, you know, talking about rape and where there's a lot of sexual assault is a huge part of the workload here it’s amazing, it’s discouraging. It's depressing how many cases there are. I've heard someone describe it as, you know, like there's a war against women and children that people just don't even know about. Talk about domestic violence and, you know well you know, women hit men, you know, not what we're seeing. Yeah. Rebecca: Wow, that’s interesting. Did you ever have a moment in your law studies where it was too hard, or was that always just you decided you were going to law school? You would be a lawyer, You would. You'd stick with it. BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Okay. What made law school the path? BK: Uh when I was a teenager, I you know, you did- think in Winnipeg we did aptitude test. What do you want to do? So you had to start to choose your courses. You know what stream were you going to go into and those were a bunch of potential careers. I got teaching, social work. And then I thought, well, law would be, um, you’d have more power to really effect change or help people or, you know, resolve difficulties. And I think that's turned out to be true. Rebecca: Yeah. Did it end up being harder than you thought it would be? BK: I was 19 when I got my B.A. and 22 when I got my LLB, so I just put my head down and worked. It was hard for sure. It was hard in undergrad because I did six courses at a time. So we talk about free time. I did not have a lot of it. And yeah. Rebecca: Did you feel like being so head down in your studies you had been missing out on some of the social aspects? BK: Probably. Oh, I knew. Rebecca: That didn't affect you. BK: Well, I'm a pretty sociable person. You probably have gathered that by now. Rebecca: Yes. BK: I mean a large family. So it- uh, and I would go out pretty much every night. So no, I don't think it made a big difference. But I also was was working hard. Yeah. Rebecca: How did you maintain that school life balance? Like were you tired? BK: I suppose. But I was also young. Rebecca: Yes. BK: Yeah. No, I think the the, the around exam times was very, very intense. And usually by the end of an exam period, about the only thing that I could eat without being sick was scrambled eggs. Just yeah. Rebecca: Right. Were you living at home while you were there or? BK: I lived at home when I was doing my undergrad and then my parents- and my first year of law school. And then my parents- dad got transferred to Prince Edward Island, so got an apartment on Cumberland Street. Rebecca: How did that- did that have any effect on the way you experienced university? BK: Oh, for sure. Being on campus was I mean, where I lived on Cumberland Street, we couldn't be any closer than the next year. I moved to Somerset, so it was a bit more of a hike. I suppose it was faster to get to classes and that kind of thing. Rebecca: Did you feel like being on your own and living closer to campus, you felt more integrated in the culture of the university? BK: I don't think it made a difference that way. Rebecca: You were head down working. Okay. So I'm going to move to a bit of a different topic. Historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning your generation had rebelled against a lot of the values of your parents generation. Do you find that to be true? BK: Well, I think there were you know, certainly if somebody was if people were living together, you know, if a couple decide to live together generally it was the code you could not tell their parents and their parents very rarely knew that they were shacked up. It was a term that we used, and I don't think that's the case anymore. But I think there was. And that- but I think other forms of rebellion, probably more on the sex than anything, drugs maybe be more accessible, I think. But whether it was drugs or my parents generation was alcohol, it was still a substance, mind altering substance. So is it more rebellious to use drugs than to drink? Drinking would have been more in line with them, but either way, you look at it. Yeah. Rebecca: Right. So did- were these topics that kids would have talk to their parents about or was it- BK: I would never in a million years talk to my parents about that. No. Rebecca: Okay. Do you think it was because they were your parents or because of the thoughts that they had had? BK: We just never would have talked to our parents about that. It was just not expected. Like I could call my dad anytime and he would come and pick me up. And would never make a comment about what state I was in. You know, if I was inebriated or whatever. But the- and I just when I was 18, I just stopped using any drugs at all because I just I you know, I could drink and I could be just pretty much the same as I am now, just even more talkative. But drugs does something to you and sort of just like, no, I'm not who I am, so I'm not going to to do that. Rebecca: So your experience was not actually that it aided to reaching a higher level of anything. It was impeding your ability to be you. BK: Me. Yeah. Rebecca: Do you feel like your peers felt the same way about that? BK: Well, never talked about it. Rebecca: Okay, interesting. Um, so to what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to to mobilize for a more just society or a change socially or, or was that not really a topic at hand? BK: Well, I you know, I think that there were definitely issues. I mean, abortion and was one, having access to safe abortion was an issue. And I had friends, you know, we went down to the states, come back on a bus from New York, bleeding and in pain and suffering. So I think that there was more agitation over that. Like, I think that was definitely a cause. That was a concern. Rebecca: And so were you or was there demonstrations or protests or was there a culture at the university of speaking about things? BK: I think we spoke about things, but I don't remember protests. Honestly, I don't think that was a feature very much in the seventies. Rebecca: Right. Okay. BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Um, so we've talked about this a little bit, but maybe elaborating a little bit more. To what extent did your generation believe that your parents notions and values were were outdated? BK: Well, I think maybe like I said, I alluded to it on the, you know, the sexual front relation, that kind of relationship. But I don’t- yeah, I don't know. I guess you could watch TV shows from the seventies like the All in the Family, that didn’t- that wasn't my experience with my family. My mom was politically active and she if you were talking to her and she was born in the thirties, she was more politically active than I was. So she's I've got pictures of her at protests and that kind of thing. So but I didn't have time for that, because I was studying. Rebecca: Do you think if you hadn't been in such an intensive program, it would have shifted the way you looked at social dynamics on the campus? BK: No, no. Rebecca: Um, do you feel like your generation's views on marriage and what it meant to build a family were were changing compared to generations before? BK: Possibly. I mean, I do know that we would have very intense discussions about the role of women and the um- so when I was married and raising my kids, I really felt it was important that my then husband spend equal amount of time, that there is an equitable division that, you know, he could take kids to doctor's appointments as well as I could. And not everybody would feel that way. I see a very different path now. I find that young women are- I find it discouraging. That I hire a woman and and then she comes and she's afraid to say that she's pregnant. And I think well, that's not what we were fighting for. We had terrible maternity benefits. I lost a job from having family, you know, saying you're more devoted to your kids than you are to this work. Well, what are you talking about? My billings are great. All that- you know, that’s just wrong. So, you know, I think that that’s- and my career did not suffer over that. But yeah, I feel like there's more now. My observation is that there's like a going back and that people aren't fighting as hard to have a good career and family. Rebecca: Hm, yeah. So do you have a hope that that pendulum will swing back to the causes that you guys were so invested in? BK: Well, I think it'll swing back when women realize that they're being subjugated again. Rebecca: Because it's happening quieter than it had been before. BK: And with more willing participation. You know, it's great to say, you know, my goal in life is to make a nice house and raise kids and have all the time to drive kids to a soccer game or whatever. It's a whole other thing than when you find yourself alone and without the means to support yourself and your kids. And when your kids leave home, does that mean that you’re, you know, what your- if that's your your only goal. Yeah. So I feel like that's been really important. Well, I know this, it's been important to me to make a contribution, and the work that I do is I can see the impact of that on Canadians. I can see the impact of that, on how the court works. And, and my kids are great. Rebecca: So it worked. BK: So it worked! But it's a lot of work. It’s really hard and you have to be conscious and intentional all the time and you have to think. And you know, there were times when the boys were little, I'd go to bed and just feeling sick to my stomach. I was so tired, you know. And, uh. Rebecca: Do you feel like your partner had felt the same way? BK: Oh, probably not. Rebecca: Right, okay. So it was even as it could be but there was still… BK: Yeah. Rebecca: There’s still roles. There were still roles. But that probably, and I know still exist today. BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Um, so was there, and if so, what aspect of Canadian society did you see as the most out of whack that needed fixing? BK: Well, I think it was women's rights and, and my 20 year old self is surprised to hear my 67 year old self saying that. But, you know, like looking back on it. The sexual harassment that we put up with, you know, from professors from I've had, you know, uh, it was creepy and gross. And I think that, you know, hopefully that's better. Rebecca: Yeah, I would hope. I would hope so. I hope so. Do you feel that when you looked around at the men around you that they were seeing the same things that you had been seeing as a woman? BK: Oh, probably not. Yeah, But, you know, I had good friends who were men and, you know, we- but it was instructive- But one of- and this is varying from the seventies but many of the products. So when I was practicing law and I was in a- representing some clients, the men that were, and they were all men, construction workers and the company that they were working for had gone bankrupt. So there's a thing called construction leans and the- it's a whole scheme to make sure that people get paid. So the first people that get paid are the workers. Then, you know, it's between the banks and the the different lenders and people. So this was a construction project, a building project. And so in this settlement and things are you're with a judge and you've got all the lawyers and you have clients and it's big tables, formal thing and just divvying up the assets. And I was pregnant with my second child and looking around the room, I think I am the only woman here and I'm in this day and I just say, you. Then I thought, Wow. And my clients are the only ones getting money. So I think, yes! One of my classmates was in the room and so we met up afterwards, you know, at a social gathering. And he says, yeah, I was looking around the room and I was just thinking, huh, [she’s] the only one, only woman in this room. I wonder if she feels uncomfortable. And I said, I did notice the fact that I was the only woman. So it's so hopefully that's better. And, you know, I'll look at it from 1990 when Chief Justice Dixon retired and I went to this big retirement like ballroom kind of thing at the Chateau Laurier, and it was just a sea of white men, middle aged. And, you know, I think and I wonder if I'll see a difference. Then when Chief Justice McLaughlin retired in 2017 and a similar big ballroom thing, and it was a much more diverse crowd. And so when we talked about that and then you know that the women men thing, I think that was a big thing for me. But then the racial aspect we haven’t talked about that at all. But I would say that was another feature of diversity that yeah. Rebecca: So speaking on that a little bit, when you looked around campus, was there a lot of racial diversity at the time? BK: To a certain extent, but I would say mostly there were a lot of students from Africa, from the Francophone countries Rebecca: Oh okay, right. That makes sense to me. Okay. Did you see any discrimination happening against them or was, were you so doing your thing that it wasn't really part of what you witnessed there. BK: Probably wouldn't have been what I witnessed, and I think it was more like my interactions were mostly at dances. Cause I like dancing, so. Rebecca: Were your dances- this is of my own curiosity. Did- were there like dance moves like? BK: Yeah, you know that the 1970s there was a whole music called disco. Rebecca: Yes. BK: And there were dances, the hustle, the bump. There was all kinds of. Yeah. Rebecca: So you would do the hustle? BK: Yeah. Rebecca: Oh, that's amazing. BK: I know. And it was great. And so this is like, if you want to go back to my school and you starting in the sixties in gym class, we would do- learn dances and, in Winnipeg one of the I remember we had to learn the polka and that was like essential for going to socials. You had to know how to polka. So it was actually built into the school curriculums. But every school that I ever went to, you know, once you get to like, I guess grade six or so, grade seven, I guess grade seven, we would have on Fridays once a month, maybe more often sock hops after school and you take off your shoes and you dance, sock hoppy, and then that when you got to high school, there were regular dances. And I can remember Mum, uh, one time was my good friend came over and Mum would sew us into our dresses so our bra straps, wouldn't show. Rebecca: Wow. BK: Or maybe she had other reasons for sewing us into our dresses, but… Rebecca: Excellent point! Oh, my goodness. That's amazing to hear because the dances that I've experienced are mostly people standing in the gym talking to each other. And there isn't a- there is no dancing. BK: Well, and we used to like in high school in Winnipeg, they- I went to because of Dad's career, I lived all over but there was really regimented. Like if you didn't have a dance partner, it didn't matter. You would line up in rows so you'd be dancing opposite somebody. So if you were standing up against the wall, we called them wallflowers, it was because you wanted to. But there was no reason not to be in there and dancing. And it was just, when it was the slow dances. And then of course, you would have to pair up with somebody. But and that could be a bit more awkward if you didn't find anybody but no, definitely it was. And I noticed that from my sons, like they were never, [son’s name] was a little more involved in student culture and in high school, but the dances were kind of few and far between. And and that was really a fun thing because it was just kind of innocuous and innocent and, you know, Yeah. But me and my friends still, like, of one group of friends where you clear out a space and we put on the music and dance. Rebecca: Oh, my goodness. Are you listening to music now or? BK: More Abba. And.. Rebecca: Yes! And who, who were the who were the ones of the time for you? BK: The of the bands that I liked. Well, loved The Who, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, ABBA was always very entertaining. Um, Doobie Brothers. I don't know. There's a lot. Rebecca: Excellent. BK: Yeah. Bee Gees were great. Oh, so you got to start up dancing. Rebecca: I know! I know. BK: And how are you going to do that? Rebecca: How am I going to do that? BK: Yeah. Rebecca: I’ll figure it out. BK: Okay. Rebecca: Figure it out. I'll host a sock hop. So, I’m sad to leave this conversation, but I do have to get back to politics. Did you feel while you were at the university looking at the government, did it feel fair and responsive to the citizens needs? Did you feel heard even if action wasn't necessarily taken? BK: I honestly don't think I've ever gave that much thought, you know. Rebecca: No problem. BK: I mean, there was big constitutional negotiations going on that culminated in the Constitution Act of 18- of 1982. So, you know, definitely. Yeah. Rebecca: Okay. Um, I want to hop into sort of another topic that we've touched a little bit. So cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill, the legalization of abortion and the dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the seventies. Do you agree with that statement? BK: Yes. Rebecca: Okay. Can you elaborate a bit more about what that meant? BK: Well, if you didn't have to worry about being pregnant, that was a liberating effect. And the abortion, though, I mean, I would that might have been later on like it just I don't think that access to abortion was particularly widespread. So it I think I'd say looking back on it now, I think men have taken it- well we talk about men and women relationships. And I know that there are many different forms, but we're just talking that gender normative, heterosexual straight way. I think that's led to women being treated more poorly. Rebecca: Okay. BK: Yeah, I think it started out a little bit more equal. And I my observation now is like, huh. Rebecca: Why do you think that is? BK: I don't know. Why are women letting themselves be taken advantage of? Rebecca: That’s true. That is a big part of it. BK: I kind of think it is. Rebecca: I agree. Yeah. Um.. BK: Because it's hard. Rebecca: Yeah, it's hard to be the one that always has to stay powerful. BK: Yeah. Yeah, right. Rebecca: You can't relax into your being because you have to be a strong one. Have you felt that in your career or was being strong and owning your power just always an easy part of you? BK: Oh, no, I wouldn't say that was always an easy part of me. But, and confidence comes with experience and age. Rebecca: There you go. That's true. BK: I have plenty of it now so. Both, experience and age. Yeah. Rebecca: Um, so I want to hop into something you touched on a little bit, but if it's anything that you don't want to answer and you're uncomfortable with, then we'll skip the section. But it's talking a little bit more about sexuality and harassment. If you're comfortable, I'll ask you a couple of questions about that. BK: Sure. Rebecca: Okay. So many universities today have many policies and rules and regulations about sexual harassment. To what extent did you find the university monitored social events or mixture- mixers or campus experience at all, specifically for women? BK: Oh, uh completely nonexistent. As I recall. Rebecca: Did- was that an anger that you had that that there wasn't more monitoring? BK: I had an incident where a professor, uh, came close to raping me and I had nowhere to turn. And I'm pissed off about that. At the time, all we could do was you know I told my girlfriends what happened, and, you know, I had- the only recourse I had was, well, if I had to meet with him I took a girlfriend and we just kind of glare at him and that was it. But I would hope now… Rebecca: In my experience it’s different, Yeah. BK: You’d be able to say, okay- Rebecca: Something happened here. BK: Something happened here. And you know. Rebecca: So, is that something that you still think about? BK: Well, it's obviously, yeah, because I'm bringing it up. But it is. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this, even to do this interview, which is to think, well, maybe that's something that was silenced then and- Rebecca: Doesn’t have to be now. BK: Yeah, yeah. Rebecca: When you- in your- I don't know, professionally. Do you see a lot of those experiences happening now or is that not something that comes across to you at all? BK: Well, in my position, yeah. I mean it was very- I’m senior executive here and so the sexual harassment is definitely a lot less than it was. And I think we have better systems in place to to address anything that- behaviours that are problematic. And it's it's not a big part of what goes on. So. Rebecca: Okay. Um, our generation is very interested in the free love movement. Um, what was the perception of premarital sex at the University of Ottawa in the seventies? BK: Well, lots of people were doing it, so yeah. Rebecca: It was par for the course. It was just what was happening and was it just sort of happening? Was there an encouragement for it as a rebellion or? BK: I don't think people needed much encouragement. Rebecca: So was just it was just freedom. Do you feel like that was different from your parents generation? BK: Probably. But I think that comes back to birth control because I know I did talk to my mom about it and she would just say, Oh, you know, every month everybody would be worried. And if you got pregnant, you'd have to get married, you know, like, yeah, to have a baby out of wedlock, which is like, well, the most awful thing and. Rebecca: Right. Okay. And that was a conversation that you had with your mother. So that was more a topic that you were free to talk about? BK: I was free to talk to my parents about anything, but we just it honestly never would have occurred to talk to them about…Yeah. It just was different. I talk to my kids about more things and just like, Why are you telling me this? I don't want to know. Rebecca: Do you feel like you ever did that with your parents? BK: Told them stuff they didn't want to know? No, because they would just keep it to myself! Rebecca: Right. And you don't feel like that’s happening now. BK: No. Yeah.Why are you asking me to help edit this essay? I've already been to school. Rebecca and BK: I don't need to do it again. Rebecca: Very true. That’s what I tell my sister when she wants me to give her help. Anyway, um. Yeah. So I guess this kind of talked about this a little bit, but do you feel like your parents generation worried about you guys having premarital or do they maybe not have known that it was happening? BK: Or they weren't that clued out. No, no, I think yeah. No, I don't know. Rebecca: All right. BK: Don’t think it was an issue. Rebecca: That has all the questions that I have. BK: Awesome. Rebecca: Do you have anything else that you want to mention while you have the microphone? BK: While I have the mic, you know, it was two very different experiences on the campus and in the seventies and two different programs. And, uh, but I still think that that initial instinct I had to go to OttawaU was the right one. Yeah. Rebecca: Awesome. Transcription Translation Rebecca : D'accord, nous enregistrons. Nous sommes en train d'enregistrer. L'une des premières choses dont nous parlons est l'impact de la culture populaire. Les historiens de la culture soutiennent que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et une culture de consommation axée sur l'automobile ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. Comme l'Université d'Ottawa est une université bilingue, nous voulons en savoir un peu plus sur la façon dont les francophones et les anglophones ont collaboré dans ce domaine. De nos jours, lorsque les étudiants ont du temps libre, ils ont tendance à se tourner vers l'électronique, les médias sociaux, etc. Dans les années 70, il n'y avait pas autant d'électronique. Alors, que faisiez-vous pendant votre temps libre ? BK : Eh bien, quand j'étais sur le campus, il y avait, euh, quel est le bâtiment où se trouve la cafétéria qui est, vous savez, le grand bâtiment central ? La bibliothèque en dépend... Rebecca : Euh, Lamereux ? BK : Oui. Et il y avait une descente au rez-de-chaussée, une sorte de plancher abaissé avec des escaliers autour. Rebecca : Oh oui ! Comme une sorte de fosse dans le sol, un peu ? BK : Oui. Alors nous, vous savez, si vous êtes entre deux cours, allez prendre un café et asseyez-vous là et engagez la conversation. L'autre chose, c'est que je me souviens qu'il y avait toujours quelque chose qui se passait à des tables organisées par des groupes d'intérêt. Je me souviens que le Parti communiste avait une table et vous savez, juste une sorte de euh, ouais. Je gravitais donc davantage en personne et c'était comme le centre universitaire, c'est ainsi que je voyais les choses. Rebecca : Je dirais encore que c'est le cas. BK : Oui. Rebecca : Vous passiez donc votre temps libre avec d'autres personnes, pas nécessairement seul. BK : Oui. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Je dirais que c'est très différent de nos jours, malheureusement. Euh, diriez-vous que c'est l'un des endroits les plus populaires sur le campus ou y a-t-il d'autres endroits sur le campus ou en dehors dont vous vous souvenez ? BK : Eh bien, vous savez, cela dépend. J'ai obtenu deux diplômes à l'Université d'Ottawa dans les années 70, donc mon premier diplôme était en arts et j'ai obtenu mon diplôme en 76 et le second était en droit et le diplôme de droit - la faculté de droit Fauteux Hall. Une fois que vous y étiez, c'était une expérience très différente. Au troisième étage, il y a un salon et on y passait son temps libre, on jouait au bridge, ce genre de choses. Mais c'était beaucoup plus, l'école de droit, euh, c'est beaucoup plus intense dans le sens où nous étions 180 étudiants en première année et nous étions trois groupes de euh, 60. J'étais donc dans le groupe B et j'ai noué des amitiés intenses avec des gens qui étaient dans ce groupe et des gens qui étaient dans cette année-là et que nous entretenons, vous savez, 50 ans plus tard, moins avec les gens avec qui j'étais ami qu'avec ceux des Arts. Il y a donc peut-être plus de contacts, mais moins de liens profonds. Rebecca : Ces liens plus profonds sont-ils le fait de personnes que vous avez rencontrées professionnellement après avoir obtenu votre diplôme ? BK : Certains d'entre eux, certains d'entre eux. Et d'autres, nous avons juste, vous savez, gardé le contact. Nous avons passé beaucoup de temps ensemble et l'école de droit, c'est très... c'est très dur. Rebecca : Vous vous êtes donc vraiment rapprochés. BK : C'est ainsi que vous vous rapprochez. C'est vrai. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Avez-vous assisté à des spectacles, à des pièces de théâtre, à des concerts ou à quoi que ce soit d'autre pendant votre séjour ? BK : Euh, je ne me souviens pas vraiment d'événements en direct - pas de théâtre. Je ne pense pas, mais certainement des danses. Il y avait des danses organisées. Rebecca : Organisé par l'école ou par l'association des étudiants ? BK : L'association des étudiants. Je ne sais pas qui, mais je me souviens qu'il y avait des danses avec, euh, je me souviens avec des étudiants étrangers pour que les étudiants étrangers puissent rencontrer, euh, des gens. Mais nous avons fait beaucoup de choses comme dans les années soixante-dix. Je dirais que c'était une caractéristique importante. Si vous vouliez sortir, vous alliez peut-être maintenant dans des clubs, mais à l'époque, c'était des discothèques. La danse était donc très présente. Et vous savez, il était tout à fait normal de s'habiller et d'aller danser. Il y avait des soirées dansantes à l'université. Rebecca : Wow, c'est fabuleux. Quel genre de... que signifiait être habillé dans les années soixante-dix ? BK : Euh, eh bien, je pense que c'est à peu près ce que cela signifie aujourd'hui. Vous mettez une robe... Rebecca : Oui, comme si vous aviez une tenue de soirée ? BK : Oui. Rebecca : Wow. D'accord. Donc, comme l'Université d'Ottawa est une institution bilingue, à quel point diriez-vous qu'il y a eu intégration linguistique entre l'anglais et le français, c'est-à-dire que vous étiez dans les mêmes classes, les mêmes programmes ou les mêmes activités parascolaires ? BK : Je pense que c'était plus après l'école. Le groupe avec lequel je traînais quand j'étais étudiant était vraiment un groupe très bilingue. Je dirais qu'il y avait un noyau de 12 personnes avec lesquelles je traînais beaucoup et la moitié d'entre elles étaient francophones et du nord de l'Ontario, si je me souviens bien, parce que je sais que j'ai visité Blind River avec l'une d'entre elles après l'obtention de mon diplôme. Nous participions à nos activités et nous sortions, vous savez, il y avait un club de jazz et ce genre de choses. Il y avait des choses au marché. Il y avait un club qui s'appelait Le Hibou, le Owl, Le Hibou, et c'était sur le campus ou près du campus ? Et euh, le... c'était vraiment un endroit où il y avait de la musique live et, vous savez, différents groupes et des choses comme ça Rebecca : Lorsque vous étiez sur le campus, aviez-vous l'impression d'être au milieu d'un campus ou d'être vraiment intégré au centre-ville ? BK : Quand je suis arrivé à l'Université d'Ottawa, c'est une façon détournée de répondre à la question. J'avais fait une année de cégep à Montréal. J'étais au collège Marianopolis et mon père était dans l'armée, il a donc été transféré de la base de Saint-Hubert au quartier général national, au quartier général de la Défense, et j'aurais pu rester à Montréal et terminer mon programme à Marianopolis et ensuite je serais probablement allé à McGill parce que c'était juste de l'autre côté de la rue. Et, vous savez, cela aurait été un chemin complètement différent. Mais j'étais un peu intimidée à l'idée de vivre seule à Montréal, alors j'avais 17 ans et j'allais avoir 18 ans. Marianopolis n'avait pas de dortoirs, alors je suis venu à Ottawa et je suis allé sur le campus de Carleton et sur le campus de l'Université d'Ottawa. Et j'ai trouvé que Carleton était horrible. Je me disais : " Oh mon Dieu, il n'y a personne ici. Il y a tous ces tunnels. Où sommes-nous ? C'est comme, ouais, c'est froid. Je n'avais pas une bonne impression de Carleton, mais à l'Université d'Ottawa, je me suis dit : " Oh oui, cet endroit est cool, c'est vivant. Il y a beaucoup de monde. Il y a de l'anglais et du français. Ça sonne juste. Et je me suis dit, non, c'est là que je veux aller. Rebecca : Wow. C'est très, très intéressant. Je vois ce que vous voulez dire au sujet de la différence entre Carleton et l'Université d'Ottawa, c'est certain. C'est définitivement une attraction. Euh, dans le même ordre d'idées, pour revenir au bilinguisme, je dirais que la plupart des étudiants anglophones ne sont pas bilingues, alors que la plupart des francophones sont bilingues. Diriez-vous que c'était la même chose dans les années soixante-dix ? BK : Euh, oui. Probablement. Mais, vous savez, c'était un endroit plus petit et je ne sais pas si les lignes étaient aussi bien tracées. Encore une fois, je comparerais l'expérience artistique à celle de l'école de droit. Je pense qu'à l'époque comme aujourd'hui, vous pouviez suivre le même cours dans l'une ou l'autre langue et vous pouviez écrire dans votre propre langue. Rebecca : D'accord. BK : Donc vous ne seriez pas... donc l'idée était que vous ne seriez pas pénalisé. Mais je me sentais comme, Oh, je ne sais pas. Est-ce que j'ai vraiment confiance ? Et si le professeur se contentait de dire que j'écris en anglais et qu'il n'a peut-être pas de préjugés à mon égard et que je n'obtiendrais peut-être pas une aussi bonne note parce que je voulais aller à l'école de droit et que mes notes étaient donc importantes pour moi. Mais je pense qu'étant donné que les gens avec qui je traînais étaient bilingues, je ne sais pas si je l'ai remarqué. Mais je sais que certains de mes camarades de classe n'ont pas obtenu leur diplôme parce qu'il fallait passer un examen dans l'autre langue. C'était donc obligatoire. Et donc il y avait... tout le monde devait... que vous soyez francophone ou anglophone, vous deviez prouver votre bilinguisme avant d'obtenir votre diplôme. Ce n'est peut-être pas ce qui s'est passé à la faculté de droit. Mon expérience à la faculté de droit a été la suivante : non, j'ai perdu une grande partie de mon français, tout était en anglais. C'était beaucoup plus cloisonné. Les étudiants en droit civil et en common law ne se mélangeaient pas. Il n'y avait pas de programme de common law en français, qui a commencé l'année après que j'ai obtenu mon diplôme. C'est donc, mais je pense que c'était une très bonne façon de faire respecter le fait que nous sommes un campus bilingue. Et ce qu'ils ont fait - ce que vous avez fait, c'est que vous avez passé un test d'aptitude - comme vous avez passé un test et vous avez été orienté. Vous deviez donc suivre un cours dans votre deuxième langue et vous deviez le réussir. Quand j'ai passé le test, je venais d'arriver de Montréal, j'étais bilingue et on m'a mis dans cette classe et je me suis dit : " Oh mon Dieu, ces gens ne savent rien. Ils n'ont aucune idée. C'est de la folie. Je suis donc allée me plaindre au Bureau des langues secondes et j'ai dit, vous savez, et je parlais à la dame en français, et elle m'a dit, mais vous êtes bilingue. J'ai dit, oui, mais regardez la classe dans laquelle on m'a mis. Et elle a regardé mon score au test de placement, le test de compétence, il était assez mauvais. Et j'ai dit, eh bien, cela ne reflète pas mes capacités, alors mettez-moi dans une meilleure classe. Et c'était... et je me souviens très bien de cette classe, c'était vraiment... notre professeur venait de France. C'était un petit groupe et vous savez, c'était bien. Et vous- c'était la seule exigence dans cette classe, on passait cette classe et c'était un euh, ce que je c'était un essentiel pour obtenir leur diplôme, si je me souviens bien. C'était comme ça. Mais je sais, je sais que c'était comme ça. Rebecca : Oui, wow. J'aimerais que ce soit encore le cas, parce que je pense qu'il y a un fossé entre l'anglais et le français, et c'est vraiment malheureux. Oui, nous avons une institution tellement incroyable, mais il y a une telle séparation à bien des égards. BK : Oui. Et, et peut-être que mon expérience aurait été différente en tant qu'anglophone unilingue. Rebecca : Mm hmm. C'est vrai. BK : Je n'aurais peut-être pas traîné avec les gens avec lesquels je traînais, donc, vous savez, mon expérience est peut-être unique, mais... Rebecca : Oui. Dans le même ordre d'idées, y avait-il une culture des rencontres entre les anglophones et les francophones ? BK : Je ne sais pas s'il y avait une culture des rencontres dans les années soixante-dix. Rebecca : D'accord, d'accord. BK : Nous ne sommes pas sortis ensemble. Rebecca : Tu n'es pas sorti avec quelqu'un. BK : J'allais dans des clubs et nous dansions. Et à partir de là, vous pouviez rencontrer quelqu'un avec qui vous sortiez. Mais oui, je ne sais pas ce qu'est une culture de la rencontre. Rebecca : D'accord. Mais est-ce que les Français et les Anglais s'intéresseraient l'un à l'autre ? Il n'y avait pas vraiment de frontière à franchir ? BK : Pas dans mon monde. Rebecca : C'est vrai. D'accord. Parce que vous avez commencé en étant bilingue et en côtoyant des gens bilingues... BK : Oui. Rebecca : C'était donc la même chose. BK : Oui Rebecca : D'accord. Hum, donc je suppose qu'en fait, vous avez un peu abordé ce sujet. Aujourd'hui, nous utilisons l'expression " culture de la fête " pour désigner tout ce qui se passe en dehors de la salle de classe. Comment décririez-vous la culture de la fête dans les années soixante-dix quand vous y étiez ? BK : Euh, oh, je, je veux dire, à part le jeu Panda, je ne pense pas qu'il y ait quoi que ce soit qui soit comme, qu'est-ce qui se passe maintenant ? Oui. Rebecca : D'accord. Comme des fêtes à la maison ou des choses comme ça. BK : Eh bien, il y avait des fêtes à la maison, c'est sûr, et... mais elles ne débordaient pas dans la rue et ne provoquaient pas d'émeutes et ce genre de choses. Non, il n'y avait rien de tel à part le jeu du Panda. Et je pense que c'était plutôt, si je me souviens bien, limité au jeu du Panda. Et dans les environs. Mais nous organisions des fêtes, nous sortions, ce genre de choses. Rebecca : Mais y avait-il un sentiment de rivalité entre l'Université d'Ottawa et Carlton à l'époque ? BK : Oui. Oui, oui. Rebecca : Cela a duré. Oui. Jusqu'à aujourd'hui. Donc, en prenant peut-être un ton un peu plus lourd, nous parlons beaucoup dans notre classe de la façon dont les étudiants des années soixante-dix ressentaient la guerre du Viêt Nam. Dans notre classe, nous parlons beaucoup de la façon dont les étudiants des années soixante-dix ressentaient la guerre du Vietnam et nous émettons des hypothèses à ce sujet. Comment décririez-vous ce que les étudiants pensaient de la guerre lorsque vous y étiez ? BK : Euh, je ne sais pas si la guerre du Vietnam a beaucoup été évoquée... Quand ils... quand j'étais là. Je ne sais pas, mais je dirais qu'à la fin des années soixante, il y avait beaucoup plus de culture de protestation et les choses avaient - il y avait une grande différence. Et si je me souviens bien, il y a une grande différence entre ce qui s'est passé dans les années soixante et ce qui s'est passé dans les années soixante-dix. Et je me souviens d'un professeur qui disait, non, vous savez, nous étions tellement plus complaisants et pas assez activistes pour... Rebecca : Vous parler en tant qu'étudiants ? BK : En tant qu'étudiants, oui, que vous n'étiez pas - que nous n'étions pas, vous savez, nous sommes plus intéressés par le type d'emploi que nous allons obtenir dans ce genre de choses. Un professeur des années soixante a été déçu par ses étudiants des années soixante-dix. La guerre du Viêt Nam a définitivement marqué mon enfance, l'armée de mon père, et il avait des collègues qui avaient combattu, qui... vous savez, des homologues américains qui avaient combattu pendant la guerre. Ils étaient, euh, terriblement traités à leur retour parce que la guerre était si impopulaire. C'était donc un aspect. Il y a eu des choses terribles, mais, vous savez, c'était une guerre brutale et le bien ou le mal de cette guerre est une chose, mais c'était une guerre brutale et ce n'était pas, euh, -mais je pense que les protestations, la race, la guerre du Vietnam, euh, je dirais dans les années soixante-dix, les préoccupations environnementales étaient vraiment quelque chose qui m'intéressait. Et à certains égards, la situation s'est améliorée et à d'autres, elle a empiré. Rebecca : Oui. En parlant des années 60, les artistes de rock and roll de l'époque encourageaient diverses formes de protestation. Avez-vous l'impression que le rock and roll, tel que vous l'avez connu dans les années 70 en tant qu'étudiante, était toujours lié à cette sorte de lutte contre le système, ou était-ce plutôt de la musique que vous consommiez ? BK : La musique que vous aimiez. Rebecca : D'accord. D'accord. C'est intéressant. Avez-vous l'impression que la génération de vos parents considérait le rock and roll des années 70 de la même façon, ou est-ce que cela les touchait davantage ? BK : La plupart du temps, ils me disaient simplement de refuser. Je ne pense pas qu'ils aient eu le temps d'y réfléchir. Rebecca : C'est très juste. Oui, je pense que mes parents m'ont aussi fait subir cela. Je suppose que c'est une longue histoire. Euh, ça devient un peu plus tabou peut-être. Vous pouvez donc répondre ou non en fonction de ce que vous ressentez. Mais certaines voix de la culture des jeunes dans les années soixante-dix encourageaient la prise de drogues récréatives. À votre connaissance, dans quelle mesure les drogues étaient-elles disponibles ou accessibles sur les campus ? BK : Ils étaient très disponibles. Très accessibles. Et très utilisés. Rebecca : Beaucoup ? Est-ce que c'était pendant les cours que les gens se droguaient ou est-ce que ça faisait plutôt partie des activités après l'école ? BK : Je pense qu'il s'agirait plutôt d'une activité extrascolaire. Je veux dire qu'il y a peut-être eu, je le sais, des gens qui ont des problèmes de toxicomanie. Hum, cela a eu un impact sur leur scolarité. Et donc oui, je suis sûr qu'il y avait des enfants qui étaient défoncés en classe et, et j'ai eu des camarades de classe qui ont vu les secousses quand les bars n'ouvraient pas jusqu'à 11 heures. Donc, oui. Rebecca : D'accord. Y a-t-il eu une discussion sur le danger, sur les drogues à l'époque ? BK : Euh, oui. C'est certain. Rebecca : Il y avait donc des gens qui avaient des inquiétudes et d'autres qui n'en avaient pas autant ou qui n'en avaient pas du tout. BK : Je ne pense pas que nous étions très différents. Rebecca : D'accord. J'ai compris. BK : Je ne pense pas que les jeunes y pensent nécessairement, mais en termes de, vous savez, dites simplement non aux drogues, tout le... Oui. Rebecca : Oui. D'accord. Oui. Aujourd'hui, beaucoup de gens de ma génération pensent aux années 70, c'est une sorte d'espace-temps groovy et tripant. Les drogues psychédéliques faisaient-elles partie de la culture du campus ? BK : Eh bien, le LSD, voici les drogues, le LSD, la cocaïne et la marijuana. C'est à peu près tout. Rebecca : D'accord. Et quand vous dites que c'était accessible sur le campus, est-ce que c'était par le biais d'un lien que les gens connaissaient et que les étudiants connaissaient, ou comment est-ce que ça s'est intégré... ? BK : Il n'y avait pas de magasin de cannabis comme aujourd'hui. Rebecca : Absolument. D'accord. D'accord. Voilà donc tout ce que j'avais à dire sur cette partie. Passons maintenant à notre deuxième thème, qui est l'expérience féminine sur le campus. Les historiens de la culture ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent la deuxième vague du féminisme et sur le fait que, dans le cadre du mouvement de la contre-culture, les femmes du début des années soixante-dix ont cherché à briser certaines barrières entre les sexes. Est-ce que cela correspond à votre expérience à l'Université d'Ottawa ? BK : Mm hmm. C'est le cas. Rebecca : Oui. Vous étiez une femme à la faculté de droit. Vous êtes-vous sentie isolée ou... ? BK : Non, nous représentions précisément un tiers de la classe, donc si nous étions 180, il y avait, euh, 60 femmes la première année. Et à la fin de la troisième année, nous avions perdu quelques femmes et quelques hommes, mais plus, je pense, peut-être plus de femmes que d'hommes. Il est donc certain que le fait d'être, euh, d'aller à l'école de droit en tant que femme n'était pas un parcours standardisé. Et quand j'ai quitté l'école de droit et que j'ai exercé, je dirais que j'ai vu plus de, euh, vous savez, mais il y avait des femmes dans les groupes de droit. Il y avait des liens entre elles. Mais honnêtement, j'aimais sortir avec des femmes. Je ne sors pas avec des femmes. Donc c'était plus comme ça, c'était vraiment comme, hey, il y a beaucoup d'hommes célibataires ici. Rebecca : C'est donc un peu excitant d'être assis au milieu de cette mer. BK : Eh bien, oui, c'était amusant là-bas. Je peux dire qu'il y avait toujours... Rebecca : Vous avez donc eu l'embarras du choix. Avez-vous eu l'impression qu'il y avait des programmes, des clubs ou des activités où les femmes étaient moins présentes ou moins bien accueillies ? BK : Oh, le hockey bien sûr. Oui, c'est vrai. Et c'était un obstacle. Et je pense que c'est l'une des choses comme cette idée que, vous savez, il y avait un hockey intra-muros et que c'était quelque chose qui excluait les femmes. Et puis, il y avait quelques femmes qui jouaient au hockey. Et ce n'est pas comme aujourd'hui. Je pense que c'était l'un des obstacles. Cela n'a pas été pris en compte dans les discussions sur les vestiaires ou sur le golf, ce genre de choses. Et c'est là que le golf, pas quand nous étions étudiants, mais plus tard, c'était, je dirais que ça persiste encore aujourd'hui, mon diplôme ou le jour où j'ai été appelé au barreau était le 13 avril 1981, et il y a un groupe de camarades de classe, tous des hommes, qui se réunissent tous les 13 avril au Prest- au Prescott, où nous avions l'habitude d'aller après le bar et, vous savez, parfois je suis invité, parfois non. Je me dis : "Les gars, allez, ça fait 50 ans. Commençons... Rebecca : Aujourd'hui encore, vous n'avez pas été invité. Ou vous l'êtes ou vous ne l'êtes pas. BK : Ah, oui. Je veux dire, je pouvais toujours me rappeler, vous savez, envoyer un courriel à Henry et lui dire à quelle heure je serai là. Lors de notre 25e anniversaire, j'étais la seule femme à être venue, je suis allée aux toilettes et j'ai appelé mes camarades de classe. Allez, venez ici. Rebecca : Wow. Ouah ! Je suis presque choquée de voir que cela persiste encore aujourd'hui. BK : Je ne pense pas que ce soit le cas et je ne pense pas que ce soit une chose consciente. Rebecca : Bien sûr. C'est vrai. BK : Ce n'est pas une chose consciente, mais oui. Rebecca : Wow. BK : Ces gars-là formaient un groupe soudé, c'est vrai. Ils traînaient encore, vous savez, ils partaient en voyage de pêche et ce genre de choses. Mais personnellement, je n'aurais pas envie d'aller pêcher, alors ce n'est peut-être pas une si mauvaise chose. Mais, vous savez, il y a peut-être des groupes de femmes. Je fais partie d'un club de lecture depuis 40 ans, en dehors de mes camarades de classe de l'école de droit. Et quand nous avons obtenu notre diplôme, nous nous sommes dit qu'il fallait... Et honnêtement, si un homme essayait de se joindre à nous... Non, non, non, non... Rebecca : Vous avez donc créé votre propre espace, en tant que femmes, pour être ensemble. BK : Eh bien, oui. C'est vrai. Et même si beaucoup d'entre nous ont fait leurs études de droit ensemble et que certains maris veulent s'asseoir et discuter, oui non, et nous savons toutes que nous avons fait nos études ensemble, mais c'est un espace réservé aux femmes. Rebecca : Oui. Wow. Que pensez-vous de cette sorte de - avez-vous ressenti cette sorte de lien avec les femmes pendant que vous faisiez vos études là-bas ? Et est-ce que vous comptiez sur la présence de l'autre ou est-ce que vous faisiez vraiment votre travail ? BK : Je faisais ce que je voulais. Rebecca : Oui. J'adore ça. BK : Eh bien, que je me mette au travail. C'est vrai. Rebecca : Avez-vous eu l'impression, lorsque vous étiez dans les salles de classe, qu'en tant que femme ou en regardant d'autres femmes, elles étaient moins susceptibles de lever la main ou d'être sollicitées, ou des choses comme ça ? BK : Euh, non, je ne pense pas que nous tolérerions cela. Mais nous avons eu, à la faculté de droit en particulier, un professeur de droit pénal qui était tout simplement ignoble. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Vers les femmes. BK : Oui. Rebecca : Comme dans, dans son traitement ou dans ses pensées ? BK : C'était son traitement, ses exemples, vous savez, parler du viol et du fait que les agressions sexuelles représentent une grande partie de la charge de travail ici, c'est étonnant, c'est décourageant. Le nombre de cas est déprimant. J'ai entendu quelqu'un dire qu'il s'agissait d'une guerre contre les femmes et les enfants dont les gens ne sont même pas conscients. Parler de violence domestique et, vous savez bien, vous savez, les femmes frappent les hommes, vous savez, ce n'est pas ce que nous voyons. Ce n'est pas ce que l'on voit. Rebecca : C'est intéressant. Avez-vous eu un moment dans vos études de droit où c'était trop dur, ou est-ce que vous avez toujours décidé que vous alliez faire du droit ? Vous deviendriez avocat, vous le feriez. Vous vous y tiendriez. BK : Oui. Rebecca : D'accord. Qu'est-ce qui a fait que l'école de droit a été la voie à suivre ? BK : Euh, quand j'étais adolescent, vous savez, on faisait - je crois qu'à Winnipeg, on faisait des tests d'aptitude. Que voulez-vous faire ? Il fallait donc commencer à choisir ses cours. Vous saviez dans quelle filière vous alliez vous orienter et il y avait un tas de carrières potentielles. J'ai choisi l'enseignement, le travail social. Et puis j'ai pensé que le droit serait, euh, que vous auriez plus de pouvoir pour vraiment changer les choses ou aider les gens ou, vous savez, résoudre les difficultés. Et je pense que cela s'est avéré vrai. Rebecca : Oui. Est-ce que cela a été plus difficile que vous ne le pensiez ? BK : J'avais 19 ans lorsque j'ai obtenu ma licence et 22 ans lorsque j'ai obtenu ma licence en droit. C'était difficile, c'est certain. C'était difficile à l'université parce que je suivais six cours à la fois. Nous parlons donc de temps libre. Je n'en avais pas beaucoup. Et oui. Rebecca : Avez-vous eu l'impression qu'en étant si absorbée par vos études, vous aviez manqué certains aspects sociaux ? BK : Probablement. Oh, je le savais. Rebecca : Cela ne vous a pas affecté. BK : Eh bien, je suis quelqu'un d'assez sociable. Vous l'avez probablement compris maintenant. Rebecca : Oui. BK : Je veux dire une famille nombreuse. Et je sortais pratiquement tous les soirs. Alors non, je ne pense pas que cela ait fait une grande différence. Mais je travaillais aussi beaucoup. Mais je travaillais aussi beaucoup. Rebecca : Comment avez-vous réussi à maintenir l'équilibre entre l'école et la vie privée ? Etiez-vous fatiguée ? BK : Je suppose. Mais j'étais aussi jeune. Rebecca : Oui. BK : Oui. Non, je pense que les périodes d'examens étaient très, très intenses. En général, à la fin d'une période d'examen, la seule chose que je pouvais manger sans être malade, c'était des œufs brouillés. C'est vrai. Rebecca : C'est vrai. Est-ce que vous viviez à la maison pendant que vous étiez là-bas ? BK : J'ai vécu à la maison pendant mes études de premier cycle, puis mes parents... et ma première année d'études de droit. Et puis mes parents - mon père a été muté à l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard, alors j'ai pris un appartement sur Cumberland Street. Rebecca : Comment cela a-t-il eu un effet sur la façon dont vous avez vécu l'université ? BK : Oh, bien sûr. Lorsque j'habitais sur Cumberland Street, nous ne pouvions pas être plus près que l'année suivante. J'ai déménagé à Somerset, alors c'était un peu plus loin. Je suppose que c'était plus rapide pour se rendre aux cours et ce genre de choses. Rebecca : Avez-vous eu l'impression que le fait d'être seule et de vivre plus près du campus vous a permis de mieux vous intégrer à la culture de l'université ? BK : Je ne pense pas que cela ait fait une différence. Rebecca : Vous étiez au travail, tête baissée. Je vais donc passer à un sujet un peu différent. Les historiens ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent la révolution de la contre-culture, c'est-à-dire que votre génération s'est rebellée contre beaucoup de valeurs de la génération de vos parents. Trouvez-vous que c'est vrai ? BK : Eh bien, je pense qu'il y avait, vous savez, certainement si quelqu'un vivait ensemble, vous savez, si un couple décidait de vivre ensemble, généralement c'était le code que vous ne pouviez pas dire à leurs parents et leurs parents savaient très rarement qu'ils étaient en concubinage. C'était un terme que nous utilisions, et je ne pense pas que ce soit encore le cas aujourd'hui. Mais je pense que c'était le cas. Et cela - mais je pense que d'autres formes de rébellion, probablement plus sur le plan sexuel qu'autre chose, les drogues sont peut-être plus accessibles, je pense. Mais qu'il s'agisse de drogues ou de l'alcool de la génération de mes parents, il s'agissait toujours d'une substance, d'une substance altérant l'esprit. Est-il donc plus rebelle de se droguer que de boire ? Boire aurait été plus en accord avec eux, mais d'une manière ou d'une autre, il faut voir les choses comme ça. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : C'est vrai. Alors est-ce que... est-ce que c'était des sujets dont les enfants devaient parler à leurs parents ou est-ce que c'était... BK : Je n'aurais jamais parlé de cela à mes parents. Non. Rebecca : D'accord. Pensez-vous que c'était parce qu'ils étaient vos parents ou à cause des pensées qu'ils avaient eues ? BK : Nous n'aurions jamais parlé de cela à nos parents. On ne s'y attendait pas. Je pouvais appeler mon père n'importe quand et il venait me chercher. Et il n'aurait jamais fait de commentaire sur l'état dans lequel je me trouvais. Vous savez, si j'étais en état d'ébriété ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. Mais quand j'ai eu 18 ans, j'ai arrêté de prendre de la drogue parce que je pouvais boire et être à peu près la même que maintenant, même si j'étais plus bavarde. Mais les drogues ont un effet sur vous et vous vous dites : non, je ne suis pas qui je suis, alors je ne vais pas faire ça. Rebecca : Votre expérience n'était donc pas qu'elle vous aidait à atteindre un niveau plus élevé de quelque chose. Il vous empêchait d'être vous-même. BK : Moi. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Avez-vous l'impression que vos pairs ressentaient la même chose à ce sujet ? BK : Eh bien, je n'en ai jamais parlé. Rebecca : D'accord, c'est intéressant. Dans quelle mesure les gens de votre cercle social considéraient-ils qu'ils devaient se mobiliser pour une société plus juste ou pour un changement social, ou bien n'était-ce pas vraiment un sujet à l'ordre du jour ? BK : Eh bien, vous savez, je pense qu'il y avait vraiment des problèmes. Je veux dire, l'avortement était un problème, l'accès à un avortement sûr était un problème. Et j'avais des amis, vous savez, nous sommes allés aux États-Unis, nous sommes revenus en bus de New York, en sang, dans la douleur et la souffrance. Je pense donc qu'il y avait plus d'agitation à ce sujet. Je pense que c'était vraiment une cause. C'était une préoccupation. Rebecca : Et donc, y avait-il des manifestations ou des protestations, ou y avait-il une culture à l'université qui consistait à parler de choses et d'autres ? BK : Je pense que nous avons parlé de certaines choses, mais je ne me souviens pas des manifestations. Honnêtement, je ne pense pas qu'il y ait eu beaucoup de manifestations dans les années soixante-dix. Rebecca : C'est vrai. D'accord. BK : Oui. Rebecca : Hum, nous en avons déjà parlé un peu, mais nous pourrions peut-être élaborer un peu plus. Dans quelle mesure votre génération pensait-elle que les notions et les valeurs de vos parents étaient dépassées ? BK : Eh bien, je pense que, comme je l'ai dit, j'y ai peut-être fait allusion en ce qui concerne, vous savez, la relation sexuelle, ce genre de relation. Mais je ne sais pas... oui, je ne sais pas. Je suppose que l'on peut regarder des émissions télévisées des années 70 comme All in the Family, mais ce n'est pas... ce n'est pas l'expérience que j'ai eue avec ma famille. Ma mère était politiquement active et si vous lui parliez, elle était née dans les années 30, elle était plus politiquement active que moi. J'ai des photos d'elle à des manifestations et ce genre de choses. Mais je n'avais pas le temps pour ça, parce que j'étudiais. Rebecca : Pensez-vous que si vous n'aviez pas participé à un programme aussi intensif, cela aurait changé votre façon de voir la dynamique sociale sur le campus ? BK : Non, non. Rebecca : Euh, avez-vous l'impression que les opinions de votre génération sur le mariage et sur ce que signifie construire une famille ont changé par rapport aux générations précédentes ? BK : Peut-être. Lorsque j'étais mariée et que j'élevais mes enfants, j'estimais qu'il était important que mon mari passe autant de temps que moi, qu'il puisse emmener les enfants chez le médecin aussi bien que moi. Ce n'est pas le cas de tout le monde. J'observe aujourd'hui une évolution très différente. Je trouve que les jeunes femmes sont... Je trouve cela décourageant. J'embauche une femme, puis elle vient et a peur de dire qu'elle est enceinte. Et je me dis que ce n'est pas pour cela que nous nous sommes battues. Nous avions de très mauvaises allocations de maternité. J'ai perdu un emploi parce que ma famille m'a dit que j'étais plus dévouée à mes enfants qu'à mon travail. De quoi parlez-vous ? Mes factures sont excellentes. Tout cela... vous savez, c'est tout simplement faux. Donc, vous savez, je pense que c'est... et ma carrière n'en a pas souffert. Mais oui, j'ai l'impression qu'il y a plus de choses maintenant. J'ai l'impression qu'il y a un retour en arrière et que les gens ne se battent plus autant pour avoir une bonne carrière et une bonne famille. Rebecca : Oui. Avez-vous l'espoir que le pendule revienne vers les causes pour lesquelles vous vous êtes tant investis ? BK : Eh bien, je pense qu'il reviendra lorsque les femmes se rendront compte qu'elles sont à nouveau soumises. Rebecca : Parce que les choses se passent plus calmement qu'auparavant. BK : Et avec une participation plus volontaire. Vous savez, c'est bien de dire, vous savez, mon but dans la vie est de construire une belle maison, d'élever des enfants et d'avoir tout le temps de conduire les enfants à un match de football ou autre. C'est tout autre chose que de se retrouver seul et sans les moyens de subvenir à ses besoins et à ceux de ses enfants. Et quand vos enfants quittent la maison, cela signifie-t-il que vous êtes, vous savez, ce que vous... si c'est votre seul objectif. Oui, c'est vrai. J'ai l'impression que c'est très important. Je sais qu'il a été important pour moi d'apporter une contribution, et le travail que je fais, je peux en voir l'impact sur les Canadiens. Je peux en voir l'impact sur le fonctionnement du tribunal. Et mes enfants sont formidables. Rebecca : Cela a donc fonctionné. BK : Cela a donc fonctionné ! Mais c'est beaucoup de travail. C'est vraiment difficile et il faut être conscient et intentionnel tout le temps, et il faut réfléchir. Et vous savez, il y a eu des moments où, lorsque les garçons étaient petits, j'allais me coucher et je me sentais mal à l'estomac. J'étais tellement fatiguée. Et, euh. Rebecca : Avez-vous l'impression que votre partenaire a ressenti la même chose ? BK : Oh, probablement pas. Rebecca : Oui, d'accord. C'était donc aussi équilibré que possible, mais il y avait encore... BK : Oui. Rebecca : Il y a encore des rôles. Il y avait encore des rôles. Mais cela existe probablement, et je sais que cela existe encore aujourd'hui. BK : Oui. Rebecca : Euh, y avait-il, et si oui, quel aspect de la société canadienne considérait-on comme le plus détraqué et qui avait besoin d'être corrigé ? BK : Eh bien, je pense que c'était les droits des femmes et, et mon moi de 20 ans est surpris d'entendre mon moi de 67 ans dire cela. Mais, vous savez, en y repensant, le harcèlement sexuel que nous avons supporté, vous savez, de la part de professeurs de l'université d'Ottawa. Le harcèlement sexuel que nous subissions de la part des professeurs que j'ai eus, c'était effrayant et dégoûtant. Et je pense que, vous savez, j'espère que c'est mieux. Rebecca : Oui, je l'espère. Je l'espère. Je l'espère. Avez-vous l'impression que lorsque vous regardez les hommes autour de vous, ils voient les mêmes choses que vous en tant que femme ? BK : Oh, probablement pas. Oui, mais, vous savez, j'avais de bons amis qui étaient des hommes et, vous savez, nous... mais c'était instructif... Mais l'un des... et cela varie des années soixante-dix, mais de nombreux produits. Lorsque je pratiquais le droit et que je représentais des clients, les hommes qui étaient, et c'étaient tous des hommes, des ouvriers du bâtiment et l'entreprise pour laquelle ils travaillaient avait fait faillite. Il existe donc ce que l'on appelle les prêts à la construction, et il s'agit d'un système qui permet de s'assurer que les gens sont payés. Les premiers à être payés sont donc les ouvriers. Ensuite, vous savez, c'est entre les banques et les différents prêteurs et les gens. Il s'agissait donc d'un projet de construction. Dans le cadre de ce règlement, on se retrouve devant un juge, avec tous les avocats et les clients, et il s'agit de grandes tables, d'un processus formel et de la répartition des actifs. J'étais enceinte de mon deuxième enfant et en regardant autour de moi, je me suis dit que j'étais la seule femme ici, à cette époque, et je me suis dit : "Vous". Puis je me suis dit : "Wow ! Et mes clients sont les seuls à recevoir de l'argent. Alors je me suis dit, oui ! L'un de mes camarades de classe était présent dans la salle et nous nous sommes retrouvés par la suite, lors d'une rencontre sociale. Il m'a dit : "Oui, j'ai regardé la salle et je me suis dit qu'elle était la seule, la seule femme dans cette salle. Je me demande si elle se sent mal à l'aise. Et j'ai répondu que j'avais remarqué que j'étais la seule femme. J'espère que c'est mieux ainsi. Et, vous savez, je me souviens de 1990, lorsque le juge en chef Dixon a pris sa retraite et que je me suis rendue dans cette grande salle de bal au Château Laurier, où il n'y avait qu'une mer d'hommes blancs, d'âge moyen. Je me demande si je verrai une différence. Puis, lorsque le juge en chef McLaughlin a pris sa retraite en 2017, il y a eu un événement similaire dans une grande salle de bal, et la foule était beaucoup plus diversifiée. Et donc quand nous avons parlé de cela et puis vous savez que les femmes et les hommes, je pense que cela a été une grande chose pour moi. Mais nous n'avons pas du tout parlé de l'aspect racial. Mais je dirais que c'était une autre caractéristique de la diversité. Rebecca : À ce propos, quand vous avez regardé le campus, y avait-il beaucoup de diversité raciale à l'époque ? BK : Dans une certaine mesure, mais je dirais qu'il y avait surtout beaucoup d'étudiants originaires d'Afrique, des pays francophones Rebecca : Oh, d'accord, c'est vrai. Cela me paraît logique. D'accord. Avez-vous vu des discriminations à leur encontre ou est-ce que vous faisiez tellement votre truc que ça ne faisait pas vraiment partie de ce que vous avez vu. BK : Ce n'est probablement pas ce dont j'ai été témoin, et je pense que mes interactions se sont surtout produites lors de soirées dansantes. Parce que j'aime danser. Rebecca : Est-ce que vos danses... c'est ma propre curiosité. Est-ce qu'il y avait des mouvements de danse ? BK : Oui, vous savez, dans les années 1970, il y avait toute une musique appelée disco. Rebecca : Oui. BK : Et il y avait des danses, le hustle, le bump. Il y avait toutes sortes de... Oui. Rebecca : Vous feriez donc de l'agitation ? BK : Oui. Rebecca : Oh, c'est incroyable. BK : Je sais. Et c'était génial. Et c'est comme si, si vous voulez revenir à mon école et que vous commenciez dans les années soixante en cours de gym, nous faisions - apprenions des danses et, à Winnipeg, je me souviens que nous devions apprendre la polka et c'était essentiel pour aller à des soirées sociales. Il fallait savoir danser la polka. C'était donc intégré dans les programmes scolaires. Mais dans toutes les écoles que j'ai fréquentées, vous savez, une fois que vous êtes arrivé à la sixième ou à la septième année, je suppose, nous avions le vendredi, une fois par mois, peut-être plus souvent, des bals de chaussettes après l'école, et vous enleviez vos chaussures et vous dansiez, des bals de chaussettes, et ensuite, lorsque vous arriviez au lycée, il y avait des bals réguliers. Et je me souviens que maman, euh, une fois, ma bonne amie est venue et maman nous a cousu dans nos robes pour que nos bretelles de soutien-gorge ne se voient pas. Rebecca : Wow. BK : Ou peut-être avait-elle d'autres raisons de nous coudre dans nos robes, mais... Rebecca : Excellente remarque ! Oh, mon Dieu. C'est incroyable d'entendre ça, parce que les danses que j'ai connues, ce sont surtout des gens qui se tiennent debout dans le gymnase et qui parlent entre eux. Et il n'y a pas... il n'y a pas de danse. BK : Eh bien, et nous avions l'habitude, comme à l'école secondaire de Winnipeg, ils - j'y suis allé à cause de la carrière de mon père, j'ai vécu un peu partout, mais c'était vraiment régimenté. Si vous n'aviez pas de partenaire de danse, ça n'avait pas d'importance. On se mettait en rang pour danser en face de quelqu'un. Si vous vous teniez contre le mur, nous les appelions les "wallflowers", c'était parce que vous le vouliez. Mais il n'y avait aucune raison de ne pas danser. Et c'était juste, quand c'était les danses lentes. Et puis, bien sûr, il fallait se mettre en couple avec quelqu'un. Mais cela pouvait être un peu plus gênant si vous ne trouviez personne, mais non, c'était vraiment le cas. Et j'ai remarqué que mes fils n'étaient jamais, [nom du fils] était un peu plus impliqué dans la culture étudiante et au lycée, mais les bals étaient plutôt rares. Et c'était vraiment amusant parce que c'était juste un peu inoffensif et innocent et, vous savez, Ouais. Mais moi et mes amis, on est toujours dans un groupe d'amis où on libère un espace, on met de la musique et on danse. Rebecca : Oh, mon Dieu. Vous écoutez de la musique en ce moment ou ? BK : Plus d'Abba. Et... Rebecca : Oui ! Et qui, qui étaient les qui étaient les qui étaient les de l'époque pour vous ? BK : Les groupes que j'aimais. J'aimais les Who, les Rolling Stones, les Beatles, ABBA était toujours très divertissant. Um, Doobie Brothers. Je ne sais pas. Il y en a beaucoup. Rebecca : Excellent. BK : Oui. Les Bee Gees étaient géniaux. Oh, alors vous avez commencé à danser. Rebecca : Je sais ! Je sais. BK : Et comment allez-vous faire ? Rebecca : Comment vais-je faire ? BK : Oui. Rebecca : Je vais trouver une solution. BK : D'accord. Rebecca : Trouve une solution. J'organiserai un saut de chaussettes. Je suis triste de quitter cette conversation, mais je dois revenir à la politique. Lorsque vous étiez à l'université et que vous regardiez le gouvernement, aviez-vous l'impression qu'il était juste et qu'il répondait aux besoins des citoyens ? Avez-vous eu l'impression d'être entendu, même si des mesures n'ont pas nécessairement été prises ? BK : Honnêtement, je ne pense pas y avoir jamais réfléchi. Rebecca : Pas de problème. BK : Je veux dire qu'il y a eu de grandes négociations constitutionnelles qui ont abouti à la loi constitutionnelle de 1982. Donc, vous savez, c'est certain. C'est vrai. Rebecca : D'accord. J'aimerais aborder un autre sujet que nous avons un peu abordé. Les historiens de la culture ont affirmé que l'introduction de la pilule contraceptive, la légalisation de l'avortement et la diffusion de l'idéologie de l'amour libre ont modifié les relations entre les sexes et les pratiques de drague dans les années soixante-dix. Êtes-vous d'accord avec cette affirmation ? BK : Oui. Rebecca : D'accord. Pouvez-vous nous en dire un peu plus sur ce que cela signifie ? BK : Eh bien, si vous n'aviez pas à vous soucier d'être enceinte, c'était un effet libérateur. Et l'avortement, bien que, je veux dire, je pense que cela aurait pu être plus tard, comme je ne pense pas que l'accès à l'avortement était particulièrement répandu. En y repensant aujourd'hui, je pense que les hommes l'ont pris - nous parlons des relations hommes-femmes. Et je sais qu'il existe de nombreuses formes différentes, mais nous parlons uniquement de la relation hétérosexuelle normative. Je pense que cela a conduit les femmes à être moins bien traitées. Rebecca : D'accord. BK : Oui, je pense qu'au début, c'était un peu plus égalitaire. Et j'observe maintenant que c'est comme si c'était le cas. Rebecca : Pourquoi pensez-vous que c'est le cas ? BK : Je ne sais pas. Pourquoi les femmes se laissent-elles abuser ? Rebecca : C'est vrai. C'est un élément important. BK : Je pense que c'est le cas. Rebecca : Je suis d'accord. Je suis d'accord. Hum... BK : Parce que c'est difficile. Rebecca : Oui, c'est difficile d'être celui qui doit toujours rester puissant. BK : Oui. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Vous ne pouvez pas vous détendre dans votre être parce que vous devez être forte. Avez-vous ressenti cela au cours de votre carrière ou bien avez-vous toujours eu la volonté d'être forte et d'assumer votre pouvoir ? BK : Oh, non, je ne dirais pas que cela a toujours été facile pour moi. Mais la confiance vient avec l'expérience et l'âge. Rebecca : Voilà. C'est vrai. BK : J'en ai beaucoup maintenant. Les deux, l'expérience et l'âge. Oui, l'expérience et l'âge. Rebecca : J'aimerais aborder un sujet que vous avez un peu abordé, mais si vous ne voulez pas répondre ou si cela vous met mal à l'aise, nous sauterons la section. Mais il s'agit de parler un peu plus de la sexualité et du harcèlement. Si vous êtes à l'aise, je vous poserai quelques questions à ce sujet. BK : Bien sûr. Rebecca : Aujourd'hui, de nombreuses universités ont des politiques, des règles et des règlements sur le harcèlement sexuel. Dans quelle mesure avez-vous trouvé que l'université surveillait les événements sociaux, les soirées mixtes ou les expériences sur le campus, en particulier pour les femmes ? BK : Oh, euh, complètement inexistant. Si je me souviens bien. Rebecca : Est-ce que... est-ce que vous étiez fâchée qu'il n'y ait pas plus de surveillance ? BK : J'ai eu un incident où un professeur, euh, a failli me violer et je n'avais nulle part où aller. Et j'en suis furieuse. À l'époque, tout ce que nous pouvions faire, c'était de dire à mes amies ce qui s'était passé, et, vous savez, j'avais - le seul recours que j'avais, c'était, eh bien, si je devais le rencontrer, j'emmenais une amie et nous le regardions fixement, et c'était tout. Mais j'espère que maintenant... Rebecca : D'après mon expérience, c'est différent, oui. BK : Vous pourriez dire, d'accord... Rebecca : Il s'est passé quelque chose ici. BK : Il s'est passé quelque chose ici. Et vous savez. Rebecca : Alors, est-ce que c'est quelque chose auquel vous pensez encore ? BK : Eh bien, c'est évident, oui, parce que j'en parle. Mais c'est le cas. Et c'est l'une des raisons pour lesquelles j'ai voulu en parler, et même faire cette interview, pour me dire que c'est peut-être quelque chose qui a été réduit au silence à l'époque et que... Rebecca : Il n'est pas nécessaire que ce soit maintenant. BK : Oui, oui. Rebecca : Quand vous... dans votre... je ne sais pas, professionnellement. Est-ce que vous voyez beaucoup de ces expériences se produire maintenant ou est-ce que ce n'est pas du tout quelque chose qui vous vient à l'esprit ? BK : Eh bien, dans ma position, oui. Je veux dire que c'était très... Je suis cadre supérieur ici et le harcèlement sexuel est nettement moins fréquent qu'avant. Et je pense que nous avons mis en place de meilleurs systèmes pour traiter tout ce qui - les comportements qui posent problème. Et ce n'est pas une grande partie de ce qui se passe. C'est pourquoi. Rebecca : D'accord. Notre génération est très intéressée par le mouvement de l'amour libre. Hum, quelle était la perception des relations sexuelles avant le mariage à l'Université d'Ottawa dans les années soixante-dix ? BK : Eh bien, beaucoup de gens le faisaient, alors oui. Rebecca : C'était normal. C'était juste ce qui se passait et est-ce que c'était juste une sorte de hasard ? Y avait-il un encouragement à la rébellion ou ? BK : Je ne pense pas que les gens aient eu besoin de beaucoup d'encouragement. Rebecca : C'était donc la liberté. Avez-vous l'impression que c'était différent de la génération de vos parents ? BK : Probablement. Mais je pense que cela revient au contrôle des naissances parce que je sais que j'en ai parlé à ma mère et qu'elle m'a simplement dit : "Oh, tu sais, chaque mois, tout le monde s'inquiète. Et si vous tombiez enceinte, vous devriez vous marier, vous savez, comme, ouais, pour avoir un bébé hors mariage, ce qui est comme, eh bien, la chose la plus horrible et... Rebecca : C'est vrai. Et c'est une conversation que vous avez eue avec votre mère. Et c'est une conversation que vous avez eue avec votre mère. C'était donc plutôt un sujet dont vous étiez libre de parler ? BK : J'étais libre de parler de tout à mes parents, mais nous n'aurions jamais eu l'idée de leur parler de... Oui. C'était différent. Je parle à mes enfants de plus de choses et je leur dis : "Pourquoi me dites-vous cela ? Je ne veux pas savoir. Rebecca : Avez-vous l'impression d'avoir déjà fait cela avec vos parents ? BK : Vous leur avez dit des choses qu'ils ne voulaient pas savoir ? Non, parce qu'ils le garderaient pour moi ! Rebecca : C'est vrai. Et vous n'avez pas l'impression que c'est le cas aujourd'hui. BK : Non. Oui. Pourquoi me demandes-tu de t'aider à réviser cette dissertation ? J'ai déjà été à l'école. Rebecca et BK : Je n'ai pas besoin de le refaire. Rebecca : C'est tout à fait vrai. C'est ce que je dis à ma sœur quand elle veut que je l'aide. Quoi qu'il en soit, euh, oui. Je suppose que nous en avons un peu parlé, mais avez-vous l'impression que la génération de vos parents s'est inquiétée de vos relations prémaritales ou qu'ils n'ont pas su que cela se produisait ? BK : Ou ils n'étaient pas aussi informés. Non, non, je pense que oui. Non, je ne sais pas. Rebecca : D'accord. BK : Je ne pense pas que ce soit un problème. Rebecca : Cela répond à toutes les questions que je me pose. BK : Génial. Rebecca : Avez-vous quelque chose d'autre à mentionner pendant que vous avez le micro ? BK : Pendant que j'ai le micro, vous savez, c'était deux expériences très différentes sur le campus et dans les années soixante-dix et deux programmes différents. Et, euh, mais je pense toujours que ce premier réflexe que j'ai eu d'aller à l'Université d'Ottawa était le bon. Oui, c'est vrai. Rebecca : Génial. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource K, B (Interview) Description An account of the resource Testimonial from University of Ottawa Alumna about campus life and beyond in the 1970s, with a heavy focus on the bilingual and female experience. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-24 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MPEG Audio File, 56 minutes, 12 seconds Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Abortion Academics Arts Bilingualism Dating Drugs Feminism Gender Law School Marriage Popular Music Sexual Violence Sports Student Life The Pill Vietnam Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Major, Elizabeth Location The location of the interview Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 0:00 EM: The date is October 25th, 2023. This is an oral interview with MP, the interviewer is Elizabeth Major and the topic is life on campus 0:14 EM: Cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music, and a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. There were less electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s. How was your leisure time structured; or what did UOttawa students do for fun in the 1970s? 0:38 PM: In the 1970s, um…I think it was pretty much a reflection of what the American culture was. It was not that restricted, it was pretty liberal. So we went to dances. There were a lot of clubs that opened, discotechs, and, of course we all had cars, or at least we aspired to have cars. We had motorcycles and, so we went out a lot and socialized a lot but also there were drive thrus for, new drive thrus for places like McDonalds which had just opened recently and A&W, so we did a lot of socializing that way. There were a lot of uh school dances still and so we went to school dances and that was about the just of it. 1:42 EM: And um what were the most popular hang out spots on and off campus? 1:47 PM: On campus uh it was usually… let me think of it now, in high school you mean? 1:59 EM: At uOttawa. 2:00 PM: Oh at Ottawa U. Um the most popular places were probably the cafeteria where people would sit down and do their work, and of course for social, or not much for socializing but the library, we spent a lot of time in the library. And then on the weekends well there were dances at the community center in the hub and stuff at Ottawa U. And uh yeah it was a good social life. 2:29 EM: And did you live on campus? 2:32 PM: No I did not. 2:34 EM: And did the student body generally live on campus or with their parents? 2:36 PM: uh most of them lived independently and had apartments in the area around Ottawa U, the people that I knew anyways a lot of them were international students and uh they lived in the Sandy Hill area, there were a lot of rooms available then, small apartments and it was pretty well crammed with students 3:05 EM: And what countries were the international students mainly from? 3:11 PM: uh mostly from..well my friends were from Ethiopia, two very good friends from Ethiopia. Other ones were from uh Norway, and uh and England uh…I can't think of anything else. Not a lot of other cultures…oh there was some on the fringe I suppose a few Indian students but not very many at that point. 3: 41 EM: Did you attend any live music events during your university years? 3:46 PM: Yes, I did. I applied, I applied uh to concerts in Ottawa. Bob Dylan concert and what else was there, there was some lots of live bands in the clubs, we used to go to the live bands in the clubs a lot, different types of music, Blues bands, Rock and Roll, a lot of Jazz singers so we tried everything we just went everywhere. 4:20 EM: uOttawa was a bilingual institution. How linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s; did francophones and anglophones enroll in the same university courses and participate in the same clubs? 4:34 PM: I don’t know because personally I took a lot of classes in French and so I knew a lot of French students and uh we all got along and there wasn’t any problems and of course I took a lot of English classes too so I met a lot of English kids but there were not a lot of cross references so a lot of the French kids stuck to the French courses and the English kids stuck to the English courses. I was perhaps an exception because I enjoyed the uh French grammar and French literature so I took a lot of those courses 5:12 EM: And did anglophones and francophones date each other during the 1970s? 5:17 PM: Uh yes they did. Some friends of mine who were mixed French and English dated each other and also international students dated Francophone students and international students also dated, the ones that I knew, English students. 5:39 EM: We use the term “party culture” to refer to social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the party culture on the University of Ottawa campus during the 1970s? 5:49 PM: The 70s were well pretty well a reflection of the general public as I said people were going out to clubs a lot and listened to live music a lot, and although there were a lot of events on campus too on Saturday nights in the cafeteria, especially they had bands in there too so we went there as well. So party culture was not…it was mostly limited to weekends and stuff because we were all busy during the week. I would say there was not a great deal of carousing during the the week we were pretty serious. 6:36 EM: And what did the student body think about the Vietnam War? 6:38 PM: There was a lot of division about Vietnam uh throughout North America as a reflection of and on the university there were mostly protests which were against the war and I personally had a connection with a couple of guys who had gone over there and I never heard from again. They were Americans at that point I was hitchhiking across Canada and I got a ride with a guy in a VW and he was anyways, he never came back he was an American. And also um people that were avoiding the draft that I knew about that I talked to a couple times. And they were adamant that they were not going to go over there and kill everybody because it was just wrong. 7:38 EM: And so, Rock and Roll artists in the 1960s had promoted various forms of protest. Did your parents see Rock and Roll as rebellious or just a form of popular music? 7: 50 PM: Uh my father thought that the Rock and Roll was stupid and crazy and that everybody that was rebelling they were all morons and that had no idea of what reality is in terms of society so he was not very sympathetic to any protest…but he was also mysogynistic. 8:18 EM: Some youth culture voices of the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent were recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s? 8: 29 PM: Recreational drugs were available if you wanted them. They were fairly easy to get; just ask a friend who knew a friend and uh you’d get some. There was never a lot of money involved. It was not a big sale thing I knew people would give them away, give marijuana to other people to you know, just have a good time. And it was not as it is today a big uh business. It was just free for everybody and everybody helped everybody else out if they wanted some drugs they could have some. But there was mostly marijuana anyway, no hard drugs in those days. 9: 10 EM: So um to follow up on that, people from the 1970s speak about “tripping” and taking psychedelics to reach a higher state of consciousness. To what extent did students on campus use hallucinogens? 9:25 PM: Uh some did some because possibly following Timothy Leary who was a professor at uh in the states who advocated the use of LSD for enlightenment to change your ideas and your perceptions. And so some students did and uh and uh it was not a general usage, it was isolated i’d say to a few students but it was also driven by curiosity rather than by habits or any thrills or anything like that . 10: 11 EM: Um Cultural historians have written a lot about what they call second wave feminism, that as part of the counterculture movement, women during the early 1970s sought to break down gender barriers. Does this argument resonate with your experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the early 1970s? 10: 31 PM: The women in the 1970s were smart, really intelligent, they were assertive, and they knew that they were going through uh a phase where they would become more assertive - that they were no longer just baby machines, and they wanted to have their own place in society and uh we respected that. 11:04 EM: And In your own words, what did “feminism” signify in Canada during the early 1970s? 11: 11 PM: As I said, women were coming to terms with the fact that the roles were not restricted by their biology and that they had an opportunity, although it was probably not well defined at that point, exactly what they were gonna do and what they wanted to do. They knew that they had to do something different and that they were going to be reasonably happy and as I say, not restricted anymore from school and just raising children. 11: 42 EM: Gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today. How did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classrooms or at social events compared to male students? 11: 56 PM: I’d say the classrooms…the classrooms I was in anyway, was not much different they were pretty liberal. And in terms of social events, there were, there was still discrimination in terms of women, in terms of what was expected of them and what people could perceive them as. And, however, there was also a lot of other people that stood up for them when they were being, they thought that there was some injustice, the males that is. So there was a transition, there was something happening socially. 12: 43 EM: In the 1970s were there UOttawa programs, departments or clubs where women were less present and accepted? 12: 51 PM: Programs and clubs? I don’t know that that’s true. I don’t think they were less accepted than anyone else in the classroom, they were all treated the same and we listened as well on an equal basis. We were there to learn and we were all learning from each other - males and females. 13: 19 EM: Historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents’ generation. To what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize for a more just society and better world? So, To what extent did your generation believe that your parents’ notions about gender, family and dating were outdated? 13: 44 PM: Well we knew that intrinsically because our parents, our parents were just caught up in an ideology that was just untenable because we saw basically all our friends and people that I hung around with and stuff they were all…their parents were just miserable all the time. They were unhappy their marriages, the women didn’t seem very happy and general feeling of unease and not feeling to reproduce the same things. We all felt that we had to change something, both the men and the women and our perception of we were gonna do it, we had to do it ourselves and it was difficult at times because there was a lot of arguing around the kitchen table but it had to happen. And we set forth and consciously tried to do that. 14:44 EM: And Looking back to the 1970s, what aspect of Canadian society did you see as most out of whack and in need of fixing? 14: 56 PM: What aspects of society? Well I think, I think that overall it was the ideology that men and women were set in their own roles and women had particular roles in society and they were expected to fulfill those roles as mothers and caregivers and the men were to go out and work all day and bring home the money and give the money to the woman to run the household. And basically the men had a lot more freedom and could go off in the evening whereas the women were still stuck at home with their children and doing homework and so on and so forth so. 15:55 EM: What were the principal forms of injustice in Canadian society during the 1970s? 16: 03 PM: Injustice. I don’t know that you could term it injustice if Everybody believed that it was just its just the way things ought to be . That men should go out and work, that women should stay home and that was just the way everybody thought about it and that’s what was accepted at the time until of course the kids decided to say well no that’s not the way it should be, it's just not fair and nobodys happy. Everybody was just miserable. 16:38 EM: And did you feel that the political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens’ needs? 16:46 PM: Whose needs? 16:47 EM: citizens’ needs. 16:48 PM: Yes, of course. Politics is always a reflection of what the trends in society and it was still fairly democratic in terms of the citizens overall given the ideology at the time and the customs. 17:08 EM: Um Cultural historians have argued that introduction of the birth control pill, legalization of abortion and dissemination of the ‘free love’ ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s. Do you agree with that statement? 17: 25 PM: Yes, absolutely. Getting the pill and uh access to abortion was a key element in the changes that we all sought and the women sought for sure because it allowed them the freedom to be a part of the workforce and be more than what their mothers and grandmothers were. 17: 51 EM: And what did dating look like at the University of Ottawa during the early 1970s? 17:58 PM: Dating? 17:58EM: yes 18:00 PM: Dating was pretty regular, they were all very young of course. They girls were young, the boys were young, we were all feeling our way along and we were all pretty tolerant of each other. 18: 17 EM: And how did your generation look at family and marriage? 18: 23 PM: our generation rejected marriage and we thought that family had to change because it just didn’t work the way it was. All my friends were not happy with the way their parents were. 18:45 EM: So was marriage part of your long-term relationship plans for you and your peers? 18: 49 PM: No, not necessarily, in fact, many of us lived common law. Girls accepted it, we accepted it and we just lived together freely. As we were supposed to be free from all conventions and from all the deterioration of marriage and the commitment we were experimenting. It was frowned upon by our elders and it was not really accepted, not like it is today. Transcription Translation 0:00 EM : La date est le 25 octobre 2023. Il s'agit d'un entretien oral avec MP, l'intervieweuse est Elizabeth Major et le sujet est la vie sur le campus. 0:14 EM : Les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et une culture de consommation axée sur l'automobile ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. une culture de consommation axée sur l'automobile ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. Il y avait moins d'électronique dans la société canadienne des années 1970. Comment vos loisirs étaient-ils structurés, ou que faisaient les étudiants de l'Université d'Ottawa pour s'amuser dans les années 1970 ? 0:38 PM : Dans les années 1970, euh... je pense que c'était un peu le reflet de ce qu'était la culture américaine. Elle n'était pas si restreinte, elle était plutôt libérale. Nous allions donc danser. Il y avait beaucoup de clubs qui s'ouvraient, des discothèques, et, bien sûr, nous avions tous des voitures, ou du moins nous aspirions à en avoir. Nous avions des motos et, donc nous sortions beaucoup et nous socialisions beaucoup, mais il y avait aussi des drive thrus pour, de nouveaux drive thrus pour des endroits comme McDonalds qui venait d'ouvrir récemment et A&W, donc nous socialisions beaucoup de cette façon. Il y avait encore beaucoup de bals d'école et nous allions aux bals d'école, et c'était à peu près tout. 1:42 EM : Et quels étaient les endroits les plus populaires sur le campus et en dehors ? 1:47 PM : Sur le campus, c'était généralement... laissez-moi y penser maintenant, au lycée, vous voulez dire ? 1:59 EM : À l'Université d'Ottawa. 2:00 PM : OH, À L'UNIVERSITÉ D'OTTAWA : Les endroits les plus populaires étaient probablement la cafétéria où les gens s'asseyaient et travaillaient, et bien sûr pour les activités sociales, ou pas vraiment pour les activités sociales, mais la bibliothèque, nous passions beaucoup de temps à la bibliothèque. Et puis le week-end, il y avait des soirées dansantes au centre communautaire dans le hub et d'autres choses à Ottawa U. Et euh oui, c'était une bonne vie sociale. 2:29 EM : Et vous viviez sur le campus ? 2:32 PM : NON : Non, je ne vivais pas sur le campus. 2:34 EM : Et les étudiants vivaient-ils généralement sur le campus ou avec leurs parents ? 2:36 PM : Euh, la plupart d'entre eux vivaient indépendamment et avaient des appartements dans les environs de l'Université d'Ottawa, les gens que je connaissais en tout cas, beaucoup d'entre eux étaient des étudiants internationaux et euh, ils vivaient dans le quartier de Sandy Hill, il y avait beaucoup de chambres disponibles à l'époque, de petits appartements et c'était assez bien rempli d'étudiants. 3:05 EM : Et de quels pays venaient principalement les étudiants étrangers ? 3:11 PM : Euh, principalement de... eh bien, mes amis venaient d'Éthiopie, deux très bons amis d'Éthiopie. D'autres venaient de Norvège, et d'Angleterre... Je ne me souviens de rien d'autre. Il n'y avait pas beaucoup d'autres cultures... Oh, il y en avait un peu en marge, je suppose, quelques étudiants indiens, mais pas beaucoup à ce moment-là. 3:41 EM : Avez-vous assisté à des concerts pendant vos années d'université ? 3:46 PM : Oui, j'y ai assisté. J'ai postulé, j'ai postulé euh à des concerts à Ottawa. Il y avait beaucoup de groupes de musique dans les clubs, nous allions souvent voir des groupes de musique dans les clubs, différents types de musique, des groupes de blues, de rock and roll, beaucoup de chanteurs de jazz, alors nous avons tout essayé, nous sommes allés partout. 4:20 EM : L'Université d'Ottawa était une institution bilingue. Les francophones et les anglophones s'inscrivaient-ils aux mêmes cours universitaires et participaient-ils aux mêmes clubs ? 4:34 PM : Je ne sais pas parce que personnellement, j'ai pris beaucoup de cours en français et j'ai donc connu beaucoup d'étudiants français et nous nous sommes tous entendus et il n'y a pas eu de problèmes. Bien sûr, j'ai pris beaucoup de cours en anglais aussi et j'ai donc rencontré beaucoup d'étudiants anglais mais il n'y avait pas beaucoup de références croisées et beaucoup d'étudiants français s'en tenaient aux cours de français et les étudiants anglais aux cours d'anglais. J'étais peut-être une exception parce que j'aimais la grammaire française et la littérature française, alors j'ai suivi beaucoup de ces cours. 5:12 EM : Et est-ce que les anglophones et les francophones se fréquentaient pendant les années 70 ? 5:17 PM : Euh, oui. Certains de mes amis qui étaient à la fois français et anglais sortaient ensemble et les étudiants internationaux sortaient avec des étudiants francophones et les étudiants internationaux sortaient aussi, ceux que je connaissais, avec des étudiants anglais. 5:39 EM : Nous utilisons le terme "culture de la fête" pour faire référence aux activités sociales en dehors de la salle de classe. Comment décririez-vous la culture de la fête sur le campus de l'Université d'Ottawa dans les années 1970 ? 5:49 PM : Les années 70 reflétaient assez bien le grand public, comme je l'ai dit, les gens sortaient beaucoup en boîte et écoutaient beaucoup de musique live, et bien qu'il y ait eu beaucoup d'événements sur le campus le samedi soir à la cafétéria, il y avait aussi des groupes de musique, alors nous y allions aussi. La culture de la fête n'était donc pas... elle était surtout limitée aux week-ends et à d'autres choses parce que nous étions tous occupés pendant la semaine. Je dirais qu'il n'y avait pas beaucoup de fêtes pendant la semaine, nous étions plutôt sérieux. 6:36 EM : Et que pensait le corps étudiant de la guerre du Vietnam ? 6:38 PM : Il y avait beaucoup de divisions au sujet du Vietnam, dans toute l'Amérique du Nord, comme un reflet de l'université, il y avait surtout des protestations contre la guerre et j'étais personnellement en contact avec deux gars qui étaient allés là-bas et dont je n'ai plus jamais entendu parler. Ils étaient américains à l'époque, je faisais de l'auto-stop à travers le Canada et j'ai été pris en stop par un gars dans une VW et il était de toute façon, il n'est jamais revenu, c'était un Américain. Et aussi des gens qui évitaient l'appel sous les drapeaux et dont je connaissais l'existence, à qui j'ai parlé plusieurs fois. Et ils étaient catégoriques sur le fait qu'ils n'allaient pas aller là-bas et tuer tout le monde parce que ce n'était pas bien. 7:38 EM : Dans les années 60, les artistes du Rock and Roll ont encouragé diverses formes de protestation. Vos parents considéraient-ils le Rock and Roll comme une forme de rébellion ou simplement comme une forme de musique populaire ? 7:50 PM : Mon père pensait que le Rock and Roll était stupide et fou et que tous ceux qui se rebellaient étaient des crétins qui n'avaient aucune idée de ce qu'est la réalité en termes de société, donc il n'était pas très favorable aux protestations... mais il était aussi mysogyne. 8:18 EM : Certaines voix de la culture des jeunes des années 1970 ont encouragé la prise de drogues récréatives. Dans quelle mesure les drogues récréatives étaient-elles disponibles sur les campus au cours des années 1970 ? 8:29 PM : Les drogues récréatives étaient disponibles si vous en vouliez. Elles étaient assez faciles à obtenir ; il suffisait de demander à un ami qui connaissait un ami et, euh, on en obtenait. Il n'y avait pas beaucoup d'argent en jeu. Je savais que les gens les donnaient, donnaient de la marijuana à d'autres personnes pour, vous savez, passer un bon moment. Et ce n'était pas comme aujourd'hui un gros commerce. C'était gratuit pour tout le monde et tout le monde aidait les autres, s'ils voulaient de la drogue, ils pouvaient en avoir. Mais il y avait surtout de la marijuana, pas de drogues plus dures. 9;10 EM : Pour poursuivre, les gens des années 70 parlent de "tripping" et de prendre des psychédéliques pour atteindre un état de conscience plus élevé. Dans quelle mesure les étudiants du campus consommaient-ils des hallucinogènes ? 9:25 PM : Certains l'ont fait parce qu'ils suivaient peut-être Timothy Leary, un professeur aux États-Unis qui prônait l'utilisation du LSD pour s'éclairer et changer ses idées et ses perceptions. Certains étudiants l'ont fait et ce n'était pas un usage général, c'était isolé, je dirais, pour quelques étudiants, mais c'était aussi motivé par la curiosité plutôt que par des habitudes ou des sensations fortes ou quoi que ce soit de ce genre. 10:11 EM : Les historiens de la culture ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent le féminisme de la deuxième vague, selon lequel, dans le cadre du mouvement de la contre-culture, les femmes du début des années 1970 ont cherché à briser les barrières entre les sexes. Cet argument résonne-t-il avec votre expérience sur le campus de l'Université d'Ottawa au début des années 1970 ? 10:31 PM : Les femmes des années 1970 étaient intelligentes, vraiment intelligentes, elles s'affirmaient, et elles savaient qu'elles traversaient une phase où elles s'affirmeraient davantage - qu'elles n'étaient plus de simples bébés-machines, et qu'elles voulaient avoir leur propre place dans la société, et euh, nous respections cela. 11:04 EM : Et selon vos propres termes, que signifiait le " féminisme " au Canada au début des années 1970 ? 11:11 PM : Comme je l'ai dit, les femmes acceptaient le fait que les rôles n'étaient pas limités par leur biologie et qu'elles avaient la possibilité, même si ce n'était probablement pas bien défini à ce moment-là, de savoir exactement ce qu'elles allaient faire et ce qu'elles voulaient faire. Elles savaient qu'elles devaient faire quelque chose de différent et qu'elles allaient être raisonnablement heureuses et, comme je l'ai dit, qu'elles n'étaient plus limitées à l'école et à l'éducation des enfants. 11:42 EM : Les distinctions entre les sexes étaient plus prononcées dans les années 70 qu'aujourd'hui. En quoi le fait d'être une femme se traduisait-il par un traitement et des attentes différents de ceux des étudiants masculins dans les salles de classe ou lors d'événements sociaux ? 11:56 PM : Je dirais que les salles de classe... les salles de classe dans lesquelles j'étais en tout cas, n'étaient pas très différentes, elles étaient plutôt libérales. Et en termes d'événements sociaux, il y avait, il y avait encore de la discrimination à l'égard des femmes, en termes de ce que l'on attendait d'elles et de ce que les gens pouvaient percevoir d'elles. Mais il y avait aussi beaucoup d'autres personnes qui les défendaient lorsqu'elles pensaient qu'il y avait une injustice, c'est-à-dire les hommes. Il y a donc eu une transition, il s'est passé quelque chose sur le plan social. 12:43 EM : Dans les années 1970, y avait-il des programmes, des départements ou des clubs de l'Université d'Ottawa où les femmes étaient moins présentes et moins acceptées ? 12:51 PM : Des programmes et des clubs ? Je ne sais pas si c'est vrai. Je ne pense pas qu'elles étaient moins acceptées que n'importe qui d'autre dans la salle de classe, elles étaient toutes traitées de la même façon et nous écoutions aussi sur un pied d'égalité. Nous étions là pour apprendre et nous apprenions tous les uns des autres - hommes et femmes. 13:19 EM : Les historiens ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent la révolution de la contre-culture, c'est-à-dire que votre génération s'est rebellée contre les valeurs de la génération de vos parents. Dans quelle mesure les membres de votre cercle social considéraient-ils qu'ils devaient se mobiliser pour une société plus juste et un monde meilleur ? Dans quelle mesure votre génération pensait-elle que les notions de vos parents sur le genre, la famille et les relations amoureuses étaient dépassées ? 13:44 PM : Nous le savions intrinsèquement parce que nos parents, nos parents étaient pris dans une idéologie qui était tout simplement intenable parce que nous avons vu tous nos amis et les gens avec qui je traînais, ils étaient tous... leurs parents étaient tout simplement malheureux tout le temps. Ils étaient malheureux dans leur mariage, les femmes ne semblaient pas très heureuses, et il y avait un sentiment général de malaise et de ne pas avoir envie de reproduire les mêmes choses. Nous avions tous le sentiment qu'il fallait changer quelque chose, les hommes comme les femmes, et notre perception de ce que nous allions faire, nous devions le faire nous-mêmes, et c'était parfois difficile parce qu'il y avait beaucoup de disputes autour de la table de la cuisine, mais il fallait le faire. Nous nous sommes mis en route et avons consciemment essayé de le faire. 14:44 EM : Et si l'on se réfère aux années 1970, quel aspect de la société canadienne considérait-on comme le plus détraqué et le plus à corriger ? 14:56 PM : Quels aspects de la société ? Eh bien, je pense que dans l'ensemble, c'était l'idéologie selon laquelle les hommes et les femmes avaient leurs propres rôles et les femmes avaient des rôles particuliers dans la société et on attendait d'elles qu'elles remplissent ces rôles en tant que mères et soignantes et les hommes devaient sortir et travailler toute la journée et ramener l'argent à la maison et donner l'argent à la femme pour qu'elle s'occupe du ménage. En fait, les hommes avaient beaucoup plus de liberté et pouvaient sortir le soir, tandis que les femmes restaient à la maison avec leurs enfants, à faire leurs devoirs, etc. 15:55 EM : Quelles étaient les principales formes d'injustice dans la société canadienne au cours des années 1970 ? 16:03 PM : L'injustice. Je ne sais pas si on peut parler d'injustice si tout le monde croit que c'est juste, que c'est comme ça que les choses devraient être. Les hommes devaient sortir et travailler, les femmes devaient rester à la maison et c'était la façon dont tout le monde pensait et c'était ce qui était accepté à l'époque jusqu'à ce que les enfants décident de dire que non, ce n'est pas comme ça que ça devrait être, que ce n'est pas juste et que personne n'est heureux. Tout le monde était malheureux. 16:38 EM : Et avez-vous eu le sentiment que le système politique était démocratique, juste et qu'il répondait aux besoins des citoyens ? 16:46 PM : Les besoins de qui ? 16:47 EM : Les besoins des citoyens. 16:48 PM : Oui, bien sûr. La politique est toujours le reflet des tendances de la société et c'était encore assez démocratique en termes de citoyens dans l'ensemble, étant donné l'idéologie de l'époque et les coutumes. 17:08 EM : Les historiens de la culture ont affirmé que l'introduction de la pilule contraceptive, la légalisation de l'avortement et la diffusion de l'idéologie de "l'amour libre" ont modifié les relations entre les hommes et les femmes et les pratiques amoureuses au début des années 1970. Êtes-vous d'accord avec cette affirmation ? 17:25 PM : Oui, absolument. L'obtention de la pilule et l'accès à l'avortement étaient un élément clé des changements que nous recherchions tous et que les femmes recherchaient certainement parce que cela leur donnait la liberté de faire partie de la main-d'œuvre et d'être plus que ce qu'étaient leurs mères et leurs grands-mères. 17:51 EM : Et à quoi ressemblaient les rencontres à l'Université d'Ottawa au début des années 1970 ? 17:58 PM : Des rencontres ? 17:58 EM : Oui. 18:00 PM : Les rencontres étaient assez régulières, ils étaient tous très jeunes bien sûr. Les filles étaient jeunes, les garçons étaient jeunes, nous tâtonnions tous et nous étions tous assez tolérants les uns envers les autres. 18:17 EM : Et comment votre génération considérait-elle la famille et le mariage ? 18:23 PM : Notre génération rejetait le mariage et nous pensions que la famille devait changer parce qu'elle ne fonctionnait pas comme avant. Tous mes amis n'étaient pas satisfaits de la façon dont leurs parents vivaient. 18: 45 EM : Le mariage faisait-il partie de vos projets de relations à long terme, pour vous et vos pairs ? 18: 49 PM : Non, pas nécessairement, en fait, beaucoup d'entre nous vivaient en union libre. Les filles l'acceptaient, nous l'acceptions et nous vivions ensemble librement. Comme nous étions censés être libres de toutes les conventions et de toute la détérioration du mariage et de l'engagement, nous faisions des expériences. C'était mal vu par nos aînés et ce n'était pas vraiment accepté, pas comme c'est le cas aujourd'hui. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource M, P (Interview) Subject The topic of the resource Testimonial about the University of Ottawa in Ottawa, Ontario during the early 1970s, including counterculture movement. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-25 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, 19 minutes, 19 seconds Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history 1970s Bilingualism Campus Hangouts Campus Life Dances Drugs Feminism Gender Gender Discrimination Generational Differences Marriage Popular Music University of Ottawa Vietnam Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Trepanier, Kaelan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Voisard, Yvette Location The location of the interview Gatineau, Quebec, Canada Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 00:00:03 - KT: So, uh cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music and consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. KT: Um You didn't grow up in Ottawa but you grew up in Verdun, um was, was Verdun bilingual? YV: Yes KT: Um, at the time. YV: Yeah, yeah. KT: Um So we want to understand better how anglophones and francophones kind of related to each other. YV: Well, they didn't. As far as I can remember, we didn't participate in anything with the, with the French uh community. YV: Um As a like a student, it was completely separate, the school systems were completely separate. If we participated in sports in school, Uh we played English schools, we didn't play French schools. KT: OK. YV: Okay, um What was integrated, it was hockey. Like my brother would play and he always had, there were always French players on the team as well. Okay, so maybe with the boys section or maybe because of the type of sport there was more interaction. YV: Um My mom and dad uh neighbors were all English. Okay. YV: Uh are the big gang that we were in? Like we were about 12 kids in there okay, most of them were all English. The parents might have been French, okay, but the kids, all, we all grew up, they became English. We didn't become French. KT: Yup. YV: Okay? They became English. YV: And so we’d join our gang. So there wasn't a lot of like sharing, KT: Yup. YV: And that was probably part of the problem that led to the quote revolution. KT: Yep. YV: Okay, yeah. KT: Do you think they became English because their parents saw English as a good way to kind of, uh? 00:02:00 - YV: I, I'm, I'm not too sure. YV: Um I do know that I once applied for a job at a bank and I had written my application letter in French and I was phoned up immediately for the job. Okay? KT: Hm. YV: But I didn't have a good linguistic background, oral. KT: Okay. YV: So I had to tell the guy that, okay, but he was looking for people who were bilingual who could speak French to work in the bank as a clerk, KT: Yep. YV: and he couldn't find them. KT: So, YV: couldn't find them. YV: You wanna go out? YV: You know. So there was a problem with the, the friendship. I mean, there was a divide, there was, it was there. YV: Come on, you wanna go out? Come on. YV: Sorry about that. I didn't expect to have KT: um uh huh. Yeah. YV: Even when I worked as a waitress, everything was in English. The menus were in English. I served in English. Uh people ordered in English even though they may have been French. Okay. KT: When did that change? YV: Well, we, you know, they started talking about uh using the proper French words for, for like,so I started using Guimauve for marshmallow and the French people didn't understand what I'm talking about. KT: Yep, [giggles] YV: So, you know, so there was so much English involved, I think in their language that they were using our words far more than we were using any French terms. KT: Yep. 00:03:57 - YV: Okay. But obviously it started to change then because that's in, uh, 19 Duplessis was out. Okay. Bourrassa was in so they probably started at that point, you know, thinking about the French culture and stuff like that. KT: Um So I grew up with, I grew up in Point Clare, which is in the West Island. And the way that I've grown up is um basically everything like West of Dorval is English, right? KT: English and not rich. But you got, you got some money, you know. Um and then everything East of that is much more French and they don't have as much money. KT: Would you say it's kind of the same thing or similar? YV: Yeah, yeah yeah. In Verdun, It was divided up in such a way that um there was a place called Crawford Park down at this end, and that was very English and had much more money than where I was living. Okay? YV: I was living where the the there were three floors in the apartment block. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay? And so the tenements are both French or English. So you could be living um on the first floor, for example, we lived in one place on the first floor and we were English but the people upstairs were French. Okay. That kind of thing. YV: So there was a mixed bank and then further down that way, towards the East of Montreal. You're talking Pointe Saint Charles. KT: Yep. YV: More French. KT: Okay. YV: So it went from very, very English, a mix and then very, very French. KT: Interesting. KT: Did you notice any um, economic differences? Like where the English people, did they have more money or? YV: they had, they had, they would have a car. KT: Okay. YV: Like my mom, my mom and dad didn't have a car. The kids would be better dressed. Okay, than us. Okay. 00:05:54 - YV: Um, they would be going to, uh, things like, uh, the auditorium or the movies or something like that far more frequently than we would. YV: They didn't participate in the, the park situation. Okay, the playground situation. YV: Verdun had a very, very active playground situation for kids. You could go to the playground and be there from 9 to 9 and there was, there were monitors. YV: I was a monitor, there were monitors there all day who did eight hour shifts and then every hour there was a scheduled activity. Could have been art, dance, take the kids for a baseball game, you know, a shag bet game, take them swimming, all, all kinds of stuff. Okay. YV: Where I worked it was 100% crowded. At the other end, not so. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay, because they were able to, they might have had a cottage and were able to go away on the weekend and stuff like that. KT: Yep. YV: Okay KT: Um, so obvious, obviously there was a lot less electronics in society back when you were in university. Um, how was your leisure time structured or, did you have any? YV: Well, well, high school or university? KT: Uh, uh university. YV: University? Oh, that one’s a toughie, because I didn't have much leisure time. Okay. 00:07:39 - YV: Classes, like, sometimes because of labs, like Abby, finish long. Didn't have night classes, but when I used to get home, okay ,then I would have to do whatever homework and assignments I had to do. So I did not have a lot of leisure time. Okay and then when I started working that was even less because I worked Friday nights, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday and then started. YV: So it was no, I didn't have much leisure time. YV: I managed to go to the odd hockey game with Morris, the movie. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay, but apart from that, not a lot. And of course, like maybe a Tuesday night have basketball games. KT: Okay. YV: Okay, and then in the spring and in the fall, you know, baseball, KT: Yep. YV: but that was very often on an afternoon because not all the parks had lights to work in the evening. KT: Wow. YV: Okay, so you had to have your games during the, KT: Yeah. YV: the afternoon. Yeah. KT: Um. YV: I did a lot of reading. KT: Okay. YV: Okay, I did a lot of reading on my own. Um, KT: Was that books from the library or? YV: some of them were from the, a lot of them were from the library. My mom for my birthday and Christmas would buy me books, but I would tell her which ones to go. And there was only one English bookstore that you sort of went to, and that was the classics. YV: Okay. Which was taken over by Indigo later on. Okay, but that was a long time ago. YV: It's up on Saint Catherine Street near Bishops. Okay. Yeah, so. KT: When, when you were talking about the, um, hockey games, that was the Habs? YV: Yeah, I was a Boston fan though. KT: Ohh. YV: I still am. I've always been, always, always, always, yeah, Morris was a, uh, Montreal Canadians and my, my father was an avid Montreal Canadian fan. My mother could care less, and my sisters. KT: No. YV: No. Okay. And then the two boys got into hockey and once they were finished hockey, Paul and I never went back to another game. KT: Hm. YV: That was it. 00:09:52 - KT: Was, it, um, was, it as big as it is now? like the Habs? YV: Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. KT: Those were the years. YV: Yeah, those were the years and there were few rules on the ice. Okay, I mean, uh, helmets, players didn't wear helmets. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. So, completely different. Although kids wore helmets, I'm pretty sure that Marcel had a helmet when he played, you know, but pick up hockey, KT: Mhm. YV: nobody wore a helmet. KT: Yep. YV: No, KT: Hm. YV: no. KT: Um, so transitioning to, um, campus, um, where, what were the most popular hangout spots on campus and then off campus as well? YV: Well, of course there was a Union building at McGill Okay. Um, you have to remember you weren't allowed in bars. So, you know, that was, uh, you were checked, KT: Yep. YV: you were checked all the time. Okay. KT: Mhm. YV: If you went in. Okay. So that was a hard, a hard one to go to. So it would have had to have been a, something like a, a restaurant place where, you know, a local restaurant. You wouldn't be allowed in, uh, downtown Montreal into a place. Okay, yeah, one of the, KT: Mhm. YV: you couldn't get into the contiki, for example, that was a bar and dinner place you had to show your, KT: ID. YV: ID to get KT: Yep. YV: into them, you know. So, so, uh, so, uh, hangouts would have been local areas where, like I said, the boardwalk KT: Yep. YV: and the movie theater and, you know, places around the, a baseball field or where people skated and played hockey during the winter time, you know. YV: So, um, even, even in university, I mean, I was 20 when I graduated from university, I wasn't allowed in the, I mean, I did go, you know, KT: Yep. YV: but, you know, if I was carded, that was, that was it, goodbye! You know, KT: Yep. YV: hold the lead. KT: Were there any hangout spots on campus? Um. 00:11:56 - YV: No, not at our place. Um, M McGill. I can't remember at McGill, I can't remember. Um, there was nothing at the medical building and there was nothing at Loyola that I can remember. YV: Okay, so it would have been just the Union Building. KT: Is that I know, uh, campuses now have spots built to, to hang out, you know? Did they back then? YV: No, KT: No YV: no, I think that came as a KT: Later. YV: Yeah. KT: Yeah, okay. YV: Yeah. KT: Um, how linguistically integrated was Marianopolis? YV: Wasn’t. KT: at all? YV: Right. No, it was English. KT: Yeah. Um, YV: It was English. KT: um, were there any French, um, people that, that tried to go there? YV: Oh, I wouldn’t know that. KT: Okay. YV: That I wouldn't know. And I don't, like, I never had a French student, uh, classmate. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay, in my science classes? KT: Yep. YV: Okay. There might have been some in the, uh, b A programs. KT: Mhm. YV: I wouldn't know. I didn't hang around with them. We were too busy. You didn't have time enough to hang around with them, you know? So, I don't know. I don't know. KT: Um, the whole party culture that we refer to now, uh, referring to social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe that? It doesn't have to be parties but like you mentioned the boardwalk, um, and how that was popular? YV: Well, that was, that was a hangout for, um, you know, from the spring through to the fall. Okay because it closed down, the building, the boardwalk building KT: Mhm. YV: closed down over the winter time. But when you went there, they always had the beau the beauty of it. Uh, even if you didn't, you couldn't drink inside. I mean, I'm not saying that there wasn't any booze on the but there was a whole grass park all the way around it. 00:14:03 - KT: Mhm. So you could, you know, join in the, the music, participate in any music that was coming from there because a lot of it was a DJ or um, a popular band in the area. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay. So it was one of those places where you, you know, you, you see in a movie where the girls are all dressed up and hanging out and dancing on the grass or whatever that ki that kind of association. Nothing more, more formal than that. And a lot of times it was just groups of kids. So, so in my gang, we were, good lord, I'm trying to think. We must have been 15, 15 people. YV: We were boys and girls, KT: Mhm. YV: but we didn't pair up as boys and girls. Everybody just met, KT: Yeah. YV: went and did something, then went home and then the next day we re-meet again sometimes it was just a pickup football game or we'd all go to the pool or we'd all go to the movies but it was not so and so was with somebody else and KT: Yeah. YV: so no, it was none of that. YV: Okay? But that was, you know, when I was 18 years old, you know, kind of thing. KT: Mhm YV: There wasn't any uh pairing up and I, I would imagine that a lot of that continued at the boardwalk, okay? YV: Until, you know, I mean, people got married when they were quite young, you know, a lot of my friends were married by the time they were 20 you know. KT: Wow. YV: So, yeah, KT: very different, very different than today. YV: Yeah, very different than today because at the time that's what you did, KT: Yeah. YV: you got married and then you had children and you started with the cycle all over again, KT: Yeah. YV: you know. KT: Um, was there any, like, parties like you would think about today, um, when you're in university that you can think of or was it more like at the bar? Right? There was no house parties. There was 00:15:57 - YV: No, no, there were no house. I, I have never been to any of my associates in class, KT: Mhm. to their, their places. And um never, no, not one KT: Hm. YV: not to Dana's not to Christine. Not, no, no, never. KT: So all the, all the, the hangout spots were outside of, YV: outside of the school and in your own neighborhood. Not, not uh you didn't have a common place where you would get together. KT: So, did you have different friends from school and different friends from where you grew up? YV: Yeah. KT: Did they ever mix? YV: No. KT: Was there anyone where you grew up with them? And they went to the same school? YV: Uh, Gail, I grew up with Gail and she went to Marianapolis as well, but she went in the arts program. KT: Okay. YV: So I didn't see her. KT: Yep. YV: Alright, Christine went into the arts program. Joyce went into the arts program. YV: There weren't a lot of people who went into the science program. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay, so once we got there and said hello and whatever in the morning or for a cup of coffee or whatever, then there was, you never saw them? Okay? KT: Yep. YV: And, and we always had a lab, we always had labs. Okay. So you, you would be walking into the, the caf area at four o'clock in the afternoon and there were nobody there, KT: [giggles] YV: just the science people would be there. KT: Yep. YV: You know, we're all doing lab work KT: [giggles] YV: or we're all doing lab reports or we're doing freaking math. Did so much math, KT: Yeah. YV: you know. YV: So, no, it, it's really, really interesting when I think about it because, uh, when you, okay, you come in the door and there's a locker area and then you went up the stairs, there was a washrooms and then they had coffee machines and, you know, like a vending machine, KT: Mhm. YV: not food, coffee, maybe soft drinks. 00:17:57 - YV: Okay, And then you went into what was quote the cafeteria That side was the art side and this side was the science side. KT: Was that on purpose or just? YV: No, it's just the way it happened. Okay., and I think it's because we walked around in our white lab coats the whole day because we were, and we smelled because every single lab produced something that would stink up the place, KT: Yeah. YV: you know, and you just. My, even my mother would say the same thing. KT: [giggles] YV: She pointed to the back and say, take your stuff out there, KT: Yeah. YV: you know, we were that, that bad, you know. YV: So I think that's, and then it just got worse in the sense that you got more involved in your science classes and your lab cla and they got more involved in their thing and you saw less and less and less of,of the friends that you had in high school. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay, but you didn't make social friends at university too many like me, KT: Mhm. YV: I, you know, I would leave Friday afternoon and I go to work, you know, so there wasn't much time for socializing and that kind of thing, KT: Yep. YV: you know. KT: Um, I know the Vietnam War came a little bit later. Um, and, you know, Canada, we weren't participating. Um, but what did the, the, what did you guys think about the Vietnam War? Did you know anything about that? YV: Well, I knew about it in the sense that my boyfriend went, was enlisted in there. There were three guys from my area who hung around together who enlisted in the same time. Okay. YV: Morris was killed. The other two were not. YV: Um, but so I did know, uh, about the war in that time but you didn't get anything on TV, until later. Okay, with Walter Conkright and Tom Brokaw and a couple of those guys from CBS. Alright. YV: Don't forget we didn't have the internet. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. 00:19:57 - YV: And if I was lucky I saw news on TV, because I either had to rely on a radio or, or I'd get home at seven o'clock at night and the news would be over because news was from 6 to 7 on TV. Okay. YV: It wasn't, uh, you didn't have CNN that had news all day. KT: Yep. YV: That didn't happen. Okay. News wasn't from 6 to 7 and from 11 to 12. KT: Was there anything in the magazines that you said you were reading? YV: Yes. And Time Magazine, Time would write up stuff on Vietnam, but they wrote what they had to write, you know, like, so you didn't hear a lot about what was going on. You didn't hear about the body count. You didn't hear about the Napalm that was being dropped. KT: Yep. YV: Okay? A lot of that only came out when Nixon came around and, and started to invade Cambodia to try to get to Vietnam. Okay. That's when a lot of the garbage started to show up and the body bags started to come home KT: Yeah. YV: and that was on TV, where they would have the coffins coming off the airplane. And that's when I think people started to realize that this was a war that the Americans were not going to win. KT: Yep. KT: Was there any, um were there any Vietnamese or Asian people where you grew up or you went to school with? YV: No, KT: So, YV: no. Um um there was a Chinatown? Okay. But, and, ok, do you know Montreal? KT: Yeah. YV: You know, Atwater? KT: Yeah. YV: Ok. That whole area was a black area. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay, and Chinatown was further East and South. Um, I don't think I even had a black student in class. My school. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay, and certainly not an Asian. I don't remember we had Polish, KT: Mhm. 00:22:00 - YV: Hungarian, Czechs, Germans, certainly a lot of English. No French. KT: No. YV: no, there might have been people who spoke French but they weren't French. KT: Yep. YV: French. Okay. So, no. Alright. KT: Um, so there is uh, rock and roll artists YV: Hm. KT: in the, in the sixties, right? YV: Hm. KT: Um Looking back on it, people say that it promoted various forms of protest and that was a way of rebelling against their parents YV: Oh yeah Joan Baez and, and all of these guys, yeah KT: what did, YV: Um KT: what did you guys think about that? YV: Liked the music I don't know if we thought it was personally, I don't think I found that it encouraged me to, you know, fight against anything or, KT: Yep. YV: or nothing like that. You know, KT: Mhm. YV: I think a lot of, a lot of people like me thought that was an American problem, KT: Okay. YV: not a Canadian problem because, well, Canada might have supported verbally. They didn't do anything. I mean, they, you know, in that sense, ok. And the people who volunteered to go into the American army, they did it as, as a choice on their part, there was no problem of uh going across the border and signing up at the army posting or whatever, KT: Mhm. YV: you know, and nobody questioned you, you wanted to go, you went, that was it you know, KT: Yep. YV: you didn't have to go through customs or anything. There was nothing. KT: Wow. YV: Okay. So, it, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't an issue. Okay. That, that was an American problem. That was not a Canadian problem. KT: Interesting. Um. YV: Well, we were very staid. We, we don't forget, Canadians are very staid. Very conservative. Like a lot of stuff behind closed doors. KT: Yep. True. YV: Still do. Kt: Yeah. Like, we're like the Americans. But, very different. 00:24:01 - YV: Not like the Americans. KT: Yeah. Um, some youth culture, voices of the seventies promoted recreational drugs. YV: Yeah. KT: Um, you went to a Catholic University, I assume those weren't present. YV: No. KT: Yeah. YV: No, and even the amount of recreational drugs that were in the schools was minimum. Even, even in the, in the seventies at, at my high school. KT: Mhm. YV: Okay. I mean, it, when I left, no, maybe in the eighties and the early nineties we could, every teacher knew every drug seller in the school, KT: Mhm. YV: and the leader of the pack was one of the most, was one of the most intelligent kids in the school. Very gregarious. Very polite. Hello, Miss. And how are you and everything, KT: Interesting how that works YV: And he made a fortune, KT: Wow. Um, What about where you grew up in Verdun? YV: Yeah. KT: Did you notice, did you notice anything about drugs there? YV: No, I can't say as I did. Even in. No, no, I think it was something that if it was done it was done quietly among friends. KT: Yeah. YV: It wasn't a, uh, you know, the whole park lighting up. Okay. It wasn't, uh, you know, uh, Woodstock or anything like that. Okay. KT: Mhm. YV: No, everything was done quietly. You know, your friends, if you, if your, if it were your friends and you smoked a joint, okay. It was your friends. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay. It wasn't, you know, the whole 200 people who are there KT: Yep. YV: with your friends, you know. KT: Um, so I'd like to transition to the female experience. YV: Oh my, okay. KT: Um, in, yeah, in your own words. What did feminism signify, um to you when you were in university? You, you said you went to an all, all girls university, right? Was that um present at all or it was kind of just whatever? 00:26:02 - YV: I don't, I don't think it was a major concern. Okay? I don't think feminism comes into play while you're in university with a bunch of females. Okay? It's only if you step out into a career or something, There's a lot of that shows up because you didn't get that kind of attitude. The men who are professors never had any of that. Okay. KT: Mhm. YV: And we had a lot of women professors and they were like models for you. You know, KT: Yep. YV: uh one of my physics teacher uh was nine months pregnant, went and had the baby and was teaching back in two days. KT: Wow. YV: Okay. Like everybody said, was she really pregnant, you know, KT: [giggles] YV: kind of thing. KT: Yep. Yep. YV: But she was, you know, but on the other hand, Doctor Tasik, who was my biology professor, uh she was a very, very feminine you know, like to the point where, you know, she, she wouldn't give me an, she wouldn't raise, she wouldn't allow a person to pass. A course bacteriology because it would give me a 90 and she wouldn't allow that. YV: Now, why would you do that? You know? Is it because she's against high marks? I mean what's, what was the problem of, about her having a 90 you know, KT: Yeah. YV: and could never get an answer out of her, you know. KT: Mhm. YV: So, so it might have been very subtle. Okay. But it wasn't something that was promoted and it was so it wasn't something that, that we,we had to have uh other than that situation at Biochem and McGill with this guy KT: Yep. YV: until I finally said no way. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay. And he backed off. KT: Yeah, what about, um, when you became a teacher? Uh Did you notice any of that with your, um, did you have any other colleagues that were women? Um And did you guys ever talk about things like that? 00:28:02 - YV: Um No, you got to remember. I'm 21 years old and I'm low man on the totem pole, KT: Yeah YV: you know, so somebody who's been there for 20 years, you don't, KT: Yeah. YV: you know, start up a lot of stuff. No, it, it was only when we, when, when Paul and I went to our, uh, Richmond regional. Okay. And I got involved in union stuff and got on what they call the school council. It was the equivalent of a student council only it's uh it's at the teacher level. Okay? And, or administrative level. And then, and then you would, you would take what you were learning through the union and then apply it to situations in the school. Okay. But you had to do it very, very carefully because a lot of there were men who thought that, as I said, I should have stayed home and, and raised more English kids for the English community. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay. Which I, you know, if I, my husband and I said, if my husband and my father have no problem with my working, what do you? You know, KT: Yep. YV: you have no right to tell me what to do, you know. So it wasn't, it, it might have been like a lot of male teachers who were there who had wives who stayed at home and raised their kids. So it was a generational thing I, I would think KT: Mhm. YV: and as, as younger teachers came in, as the older teachers retired. Well, we didn't all think that way. You know, we all had, I remember there was a teacher in our school who did not have a checkbook, did not have a credit card. KT: Wow. YV: Okay. And this was, she came the year before Shane graduated, 86. Okay. And I remember myself and another female teacher said to her, you're going to apply for a credit card and then you're gonna go to the store and then you're gonna buy something and you're gonna charge it and then when the bill comes in, you're gonna pay for it. And now your credit line is established, Your 00:30:15 - KT: Yep. YV: credit history is established. And only then did she start to realize that Hey, I'm making money and I've got to take care of myself in that sense. And it's a good thing because her husband did some work on the roof and fell, he was tied, but he fell and his back hit the, the balcony railing and paralyzed him. Okay. KT: Oh wow. YV: So for two years, he was in on sick leave and he went back to work. He was a math teacher and there was an elevator in the school so he could drive and wheel himself into the elevator and up, he goes to his classroom. Okay. But it put a lot of burden on her and she had her financial stability because of what we had told her to do. KT: Yep. YV: So there were, this is the late eighties. So there were a lot of people who had really old fashioned ideas and then there were, you know, a couple of us in the staff room, we said no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that, KT: Yep. YV: you know, and how to save money and where to tax shelter it and all kinds of stuff like that. Okay. But we did it quietly. We didn't do it with men around. KT: So do you think it was more about just helping each other rather than kind of saying a big F U to the men? And like YV: I think it was more of a question of helping each other rather than, you know, you know, the thing is with a lot of, a lot of men, some of them would never have said a word, but there were others who would have poopooed the idea. Why do you want to do that? Why doesn't your husband do that? You know, KT: Yep. YV: Paul and I were married the second year. He, he went and got, went money, got money from the bank. And two days later, he could not tell me where he had spent the 200 bucks. Now, $200 way back in the early seventies is a lot of money. 00:32:04 - KT: Yeah. YV: And he looked at me and he said, I want you to take over the finances KT: Smart. YV: and he wasn't on allowance or anything. But whenever he wanted money, he could go at the bank. But I'd say to him, okay. What did you do? You put gas in the car? Did you buy your cigarettes? KT: Yep. YV: Did you go buy beer? Did you? Oh, okay, and he slowly learned. Okay. So this is where, where my involvement got into it KT: Yep. YV: because before that I didn't do a lot. Okay. And it's still my father who was illiterate, signed the checks, not my mother who was literate who could do math, who could do things like that? I couldn't get a loan. Uh, I had to have my husband sign for a loan. Okay. KT: Wow. That's not that long ago. YV: No, it wasn't that long ago. You know. Anyway. KT: Um. YV: So, feminism. Well, I think we just quietly worked away KT: Yep. YV: at what we could do. KT: Yep. YV: Okay, because it didn't rock the boat for anybody, you know? KT: So all the, all the protests would you say are more American? And YV: yeah. Well, maybe big city. KT: Okay. YV: Okay. KT: Yep. YV: As opposed to just being American, I think big city kind of thing because their ideas would have been more individual because you don't get that community kind of thing. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. And because uh in a small town, I mean, everybody knew everybody, everybody knew Paul and I, KT: Yep. YV: yeah, there goes Mr and Mrs Voisard you know, we didn't know who, who they were. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay, but they knew who we were, KT: Yep. YV: you know, so there's a lot of circumspect that you had to pay attention to in a small community as opposed to. So if you wanted to, you know, throw your bra around, it's much easier to do it in the city than to go down to the local cenotaph 00:34:09 - KT: yeah. YV: and, you know, swirl your bra because that was a square in, in Richmond and it was a cenotaph, you know, so, KT: um so we, we spoke about how being woman resulted in different treatment and expectations in classrooms. Um When you had those, those uh was it biochem YV: Hm KT: with um the YV: McGill students? KT: McGill students, um Did you notice any different treatment from the professors? Um, no? YV: No. Um, you don't do labs, do you? KT: No. YV: What happens is ok. In a lab? I, I'm going to assume it's the same thing for Abby. I don't know. But in a lab, um, you might have a 20 minute or 30 minute, uh, um, session, a teaching session before and then you give in the lab. KT: And then its just go do it YV: Go do it. KT: Okay. YV: Okay. So you had to read through the lab. You sort of knew what you were supposed to be working on KT: Mhm YV: because you just had a lecture on it. Okay. KT: Yep. YV: Um, but you, all, you had was a technician walking around to make sure that the sinks didn't clog or that you could get a particular chemical or whatever. KT: Mhm. YV: You just worked for three hours on this assignment and away you went, you know. KT: Mhm. Um. YV: So there was no, he didn't, like, I don't think I saw the professor at all in a lab. KT: Okay YV: Okay. YV: It would have been his fourth-year student or something who was a techie for the, for the day, KT: Yeah. Uh, when you were a teacher, YV: Mhm. KT: when you just started teaching. Did you? I know you taught high school kids. YV: Yeah. KT: So they're a little bit more, I guess, rebellious than, uh, than university. Um, but did you notice any difference from a treatment from the kids versus like, uh, how they would treat male, male teachers? Or? 00:36:10 - YV: I wouldn’t know, I wouldn’t know because, uh, your classroom is your classroom? You don't, you don't know what's KT: Yeah. YV: going on in, in the other classrooms, you know, you don't, and you don't see a lot of, uh, stuff in the hallway. KT: Okay. YV: Okay at the time. Okay. I mean, you weren't supposed to be in a hallway, period, you know, uh, you were walking down a hallway, somebody could stop you and say, what are you doing here? KT: Yeah. YV: You know, kind of thing. Okay. KT: Mhm YV: So, no, I, I'm gonna say no, I'm not aware of any, any differences from student to teacher. No. KT: Okay. Um Were there any, going back to when you were in university, YV: Right KT: um Were there any programs? Um You mentioned that there was not many of you in the science YV: Hm. KT: programs? Um Was there any like, were there any clubs going on at the time? Um YV: Hm. KT: I can't even think of an example of a club. YV: Yeah, I know. I know you're thinking of like a drama club, KT: Yeah stuff like that YV: choir, stuff like that. I don't know actually. There weren't, there weren't any for science. KT: Okay. YV: Okay. No, there aren't any for science. There might have been some in the art section in the B A section. KT: Yeah. YV: I don't, I don't know, but it wasn't a drama thing because I don't remember going to any drama productions. Okay. KT: Yep. YV: So my clubs would have been outside with my sports, KT: Yep. YV: with my town sports. KT: Okay. YV: Okay. 00:37:51 - KT: Um So historians have written a lot about the, what they call the counterculture revolution. Uh Meaning that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents' generation. To what extent did people in your social circle, both uh at university and back home in, in Verdun? Um where did you like? Did you see yourselves as needing to do anything to, to create a more just society and a better world like uh for me growing up as, as an example, um the whole climate change thing is, is, you know, big like a lot of people my age like, oh you gotta recycle, recycle, recycle climate change, you know, was there anything like that when you were? YV: I'm gonna say no, no, I think, I think a lot of it was uh educational reform at the time KT: Okay. YV: Okay and only those people who were in education or who had kids in the school system, were aware of it. Okay. Um the, the French and English divide was coming into the fore, you know, um um where the French sector, you became a doctor or a lawyer or you worked KT: Mhm YV: Okay. So, you know, in many respects, it was exactly the same as the English sector. If you had like, I have a niece who has three Children, all of them went to private college, private high school KT: Mhm. YV: and then went to private CEGEPs in the French sector. KT: Yeah. YV: And are now, you know, either at uh actually two of them studied in the university in the States. Now, the fact that they went to a French private place. KT: Yeah. YV: Got them the English. KT: Interesting. YV: Okay, because you don't get the amount of English in the public system, in the French system as you do in the private sector. KT: Yeah. 00:39:59 - YV: Okay. So that's why, and I mean, private, I mean, $35,000 a year, KT: Yeah. YV: I don't mean the three or $4000 place where you can go to quote what they call a private French high school. KT: Yeah YV: Uh uh. I mean, the really okay, there was a lot of money that was spent and a lot of education. KT: Hm. YV: Okay. So, so there was not a lot of, I mean, climate change was not even an issue. Okay. Uh, not even, uh, food pricing was not an issue. Uh, even cars and, and smog or anything like that was not an issue. Half the population of Quebec didn't have a car. We used public transportation KT: Yep. YV: to get everywhere in the city. Okay. KT: Mhm. YV: Yeah. So, no, I don't, I don't think there was like one major issue that people were aware of. Like, I mean, Quebec started their own income tax form in 60 67 68 72. And I don't even remember a buzz about it. KT: Hm. YV: Okay. They, they had their own QPP set up KT: Yep. YV: and their own income tax set up KT: Interesting YV: and I don't remember anybody making a fuss about it. I think, I think a lot of it has to do with the very patriarchal society like, uh, today the CAQ, um, you know, it's Legault, who decides everything. It isn't his cabinet, bullshit. KT: Yeah. YV: He's the one who's saying yes. No, or whatever it is. KT: Mhm. Did you notice anything, um, like today there's a lot of, um, social justice for, uh, gay people YV: Yeah, no. KT: and black people and all that stuff. YV: No. KT: Was there any? None of that at all? YV: No. No. In fact, a lot of it was probably frowned on. KT: Yeah. 00:41:58 - YV: Okay, far more. I mean, uh, um, I don't know how many blacks were allowed in to quote the contiki. I like using the contiki because it was such an English bar KT: Mhm. YV: kind of thing. Okay. You know, they had their own establishments, you know, for going out for all kinds of different things, you know, and as I say, I don't even remember blacks living in my neighborhood in Verdun. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. And the same thing applies to Richmond. It wasn't until many years later that we actually had a colored person at the, at the school, attending the school. Okay. So Shane and Jason never grew up. They were aware because we'd bring them everywhere we went. Okay. So every time we came to Montreal and went out to a movie or stayed at a hotel over the weekend for swimming and hockey tournament, that's when they would see another okay, culture. KT: Mhm. YV: But it was, you know, in hockey or whatever. Okay. KT: Yeah. YV: There wasn't anything in, in Richmond and there was very little in Sherbrooke KT: And none of that was on purpose, right? It was just, YV: No, it was just the way it was. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay. Now, I can remember, um, remember when the riots were held in the late sixties in the States, L A blew up, KT: Yep. YV: okay. Chicago blew up. KT: Yep. YV: New Jersey. Okay. We would have, we had a lot of visitors that came from the States and a lot of them were black and, uh, I mean, they must have had money to come to Canada and stay for whatever it was. But they were the only ones that we saw in our restaurants. We didn't normally have black people who actually came to the restaurant to the A&W. KT: Hm. YV: Okay. But A&W is a chain in the States and they're familiar with it. Okay. KT: Yep. 00:44:00 - YV: So they, because there was no Burger King. Burger King didn't come to Canada. Oh. Oh, Jason was born in 74 75. Okay. Burger King was still in the States, didn’t come to Canada KT: Yep. YV: and mcdonald's. I don't even know if mcdonald's was around at the time. So A&W was okay.And that was a familiar chain KT: Mhm YV: and I think that's why we got, you know, KT: Yep, interesting. YV: so, no, no, there wasn't. We, we, we just didn't have, KT: Yep. YV: we just didn't meet, we didn't get together for anything. KT: Hm. Um, to what extent did your generation believe that your parents notions about gender, family and dating were outdated? Like YV: I have no idea. KT: Yeah, YV: no idea about that. Like, um, I don't think mom and dad ever had anything concrete to say about any of that, you know, when Lilian started going out or when Marcel started going or I was going out, there was no, you know, KT: There was no trying to control? YV: No, no, no, no, no. I think we were raised to the point where we knew, KT: Mhm. YV: you know, that there were limits, KT: Yep. YV: kind of thing KT: Yep. YV: that, okay, and we just absorb the limits and use the limits. Uh, you know, without even thinking. KT: Yeah. YV: Okay. KT: Um, were you in tune with the political system at all? YV: I'm gonna say, no, I was not. I mean, I might have known who was the prime minister at the time and stuff like that. But apart from that, no, and it only, you know, at Saint Joe's when I did my Bachelor of Education when the parent report came in and that was only because we had to take a history of education program. Okay. Of course,there's something like along that line KT: Mhm. YV: apart from that. No. No, 00:45:57 - KT: Interesting YV: it was not. Um, no, KT: it wasn't big. YV: It wasn't big. Like, I didn't even know there was like who the mayor of Verdun was like, and we lived across the street from the city hall. KT: Yeah. YV: no, politics was not, KT: not as big as it is. YV: No. KT: Do you think that has to do with the connectedness of today's society? Um, YV: Well, I think, I think, yes, I think the fact that so much can happen and within two minutes everybody knows what's going on. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. Um, and I'm sure that a lot of that had to do with the, uh, Vietnam and the reporting of Vietnam and then, and then Nixon getting into the troubles that he, and, and then, you know, like all of a sudden there's a trial on TV, like, I mean, the judge was right there and they were, you know, you know, questioning John Dean and all of the, the people who worked for, for Nixon, you know, like that never happened anywhere at any time. And then all of a sudden,you know, KT: Boom. YV: boom, all of this stuff started coming out, you know, and it may have raised some questions about what was going on in the Quebec thing or, you know, you know, Renee Levesque coming up as, uh, you know, the PQ and, and that kind of thing. But, uh, in the early seventies, no. KT: Did you, um, what was the first time you voted if you voted at all? YV: Oh, yeah, I, I voted when I was, had the right to vote. KT: Okay. YV: I voted all the time.I've always voted. KT: And was it more, um, you're voting for the specific party or you, were you voting for the person? YV: It depended. KT: Okay. YV: Okay, um, but for the most part it was in the federal, it was for the party in the provincial. It, it varied because we didn't have a PQ involved in this. Okay. KT: Mhm. 00:47:57 - YV: So you could, uh, you know, legitimately, you know, vote for an individual. KT: Yep. YV: And then later on, uh in Richmond, for example, uh even in municipal politics, it was for the individual. Okay? And then for the provincial, it was, that was political, that was the party. But at the federal, it was what was on the slate, not the people, KT: Mhm YV: but what the things were on the slate. Okay. So it, it changed. Ok. From doing, it's something in a very specific way to making more, uh, decisive decisions and knowing that if you went one way, your vote wouldn't count for anything, but it would at least show that there was a dissenting, there were dissenting voices. KT: Yep. YV: Yeah. KT: Um, so you said that you weren't really aware of or in tune with the political system? Did you know at all if, um, like for me growing up, I've always, uh, the West Island has always been very liberal, right? Like I voted when I was 18. Um, it didn't matter who I voted for. Liberals are going to win. Did you kind of have the same attitude in Verdun? Um, or was it kind of changing, you know? YV: No, I didn't vote in Verdun. I don't think, I, I don't remember voting in Verdun. KT: Okay. YV: Okay. And I don't think it's because I didn't vote. I think it was because there was no election. Okay. KT: Interesting. YV: Yeah, I don't think, okay, because then I moved KT: Yeah. YV: to Richmond. KT: Yeah. YV: And that's where the voting took place. Okay. And that's where you voted? Okay. Well, a lot of it was politics. A lot of it was, uh, French versus English. A lot of it was Bill 101. you know, there was a lot of stuff that was going on at the time and that sort of decided how you were going to vote. 00:50:12 - KT: Interesting. Um, historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill legalization of abortion and dissemination of the free love ideology, changed gender relations and dating practices. Um do you agree with that statement? YV: It probably did at a philosophical level. I don't know if it did, like at a KT: Practically YV: practical, you know, KT: Yeah YV: I used birth control pills just like, you know, KT: Mhm. YV: everybody else, you know, kind of thing. And, and then I almost got, I thought I was pregnant the third time and I wasn't OK. But then that's when we decided that I couldn't. That was, that's an interesting point. I could not have my tubes tied because I was not 30 KT: Mhm. YV: and I didn't have three Children. And I was told that categorically by the doctor. KT: Hm. YV: So when I, when I went home and told Paul, I said, I can't have my tubes tied or whatever. He said, all right, then he'll have a vasectomy. And now both, both of the boys have had vasectomies. Okay? Two kids. And that was that was it KT: Hm. YV: no more. Okay? KT: Interesting. YV: Yeah, it was a really, you know, like, I mean, I think that was a real shocker KT: Yeah. YV: to me to have a doctor. Tell me that I couldn't decide that there was some autocrat someplace in the health department who said I couldn't do this? KT: Wow. YV: Yeah. KT: Um, you said dating was much more formal. YV: Mhm. KT: Um, was that the same in university as it was? So, when you went to Richmond, were you already with 00:52:00 - YV: Paul KT: Paul? YV: Yeah KT: Okay. So where, where did you meet him? YV: at my at Bachelor of Education at Saint Joe's? KT: Okay. YV: Okay. He had done a four year program at Saint Mary's in Halifax KT: Mhm. YV: and didn't know what he was going to do afterwards. So he did, did the education program. Meantime, he decided he wanted to go to Oxford or Cambridge and do a year of study there. KT: Mhm. YV: And he got his professor from Saint Mary's to contact Cambridge or, or what you do is you apply and one of them will take you not both. So almost like the CEGEP system, KT: Yeah YV: you know, in Quebec KT: Yep. YV: you send out the form and then they tell you kind of thing. Okay. Well, the same thing. So he got accepted at Oxford. KT: Wow. YV: And so after we graduated, I went to work and he went to Oxford for a year and studied anthropology. He did anthropology. KT: That's interesting. YV: And then, and then when he came back, we both uh looked for jobs and he had a sister who, who had a friend who was a psychologist at the Eastern Townships regional school board at the time it was called and they were opening up Richmond Regional high school and were looking for teachers KT: Hm. YV: and so we applied and we got the job. I got a science and he got history. KT: Wow. Um, how did your generation look at family and marriage? Was it like a, a necessity? Um, that it was like, or, or, or sorry. Was it like that's just what you did? That's just what you were going to do. YV: That's what you did. Yeah, at the time. Although, um, I had a lot of people at the school who didn't get married but lived together. 00:54:00 - KT: Mhm. YV: Okay. Um, I remember a secretary, you know, one day just said out of the blue to me and I'm not having any Children, Yvette and I looked at her and I said, I don't give a shit KT: [giggles] YV: that you're not gonna have children I thought not my problem. KT: Yeah. YV: Well, everybody thinks I should. Well, if you don't want any, please don't have any, KT: Yep. YV: you know? KT: Yep. YV: Oh, you don't mind? why the hell should I not? I could not get over that because this was a, a strong minded woman. KT: Mhm. YV: Obviously, her family had been at her to have children and she didn't want any. KT: Mhm. YV: So I think, I think, I think expectations started out where you follow the, the same old rule, you know, you got married you had children, you bla bla bla bla and then I think that slowly began to loosen. Okay. So, so people lived together and they had Children but they didn't get married KT: Mhm. YV: or they lived together, they didn't have any children. Okay. Um, the other thing is in teaching, you come across so many bad situations that it, you know, opens your eyes to a lot of different situations that, you know, you really makes you question some of the things that you might want to decide to do, you know. KT: Yeah. YV: Um Yeah. KT: Um, moving on to the whole um sexuality and harassment thing. YV: Hm. KT: So, like, like I said, if you don't feel comfortable answering any of these, just, YV: I don't, I don't remember being involved in any, anything like that that I would call. KT: Yep. YV: Okay. KT: Um, YV: Patriarchal. Yes. OK. In the sense that uh I'm the boss and it's always a male 00:56:00 - KT: Yep. YV: and this is what you're going to do, but I wouldn't attribute that to being uh sexual harassment. I didn't get that kind of thing even in the restaurant. I never got that KT: interesting. Um So now nowadays there's uh a lot uh being done to police uh sexual harassment. There was none of that going on back then? YV: Not that I know of. KT: Yeah. YV: you know, I mean, I never encountered the police for, for anything, you know, like they were there or they weren't there, KT: Yeah. YV: you know, KT: Um, YV: they were the good guys anyway, we all, you know, the police were good guys. Fire people were good guys. The ambulance people were good guys. You know, you didn't have to question everything, KT: Yeah YV: you know, you didn't, that wasn't, you know, KT: So its changed. YV: Yeah. You know, anybody, like, like, you know, Jason had a very bad accident, uh, when he was out with his friends, KT: Mhm. YV: you know, and the friends didn't know what to do with it. So they stopped a car on the highway and they put him in the car and, and they phoned us and told us the guy drove him to the hospital. Do you know what which hospital? No. KT: [giggles] YV: Paul and I damn near Anyway, we found him KT: Yep. YV: at a hospital and somebody had dropped him off at the hospital. Okay. And we have no idea who that good Samaritan was, KT: Yeah. YV: but he was 12 years old. Okay. So that would have been in 86. I tell you every bad idea went through KT: Yeah YV: our heads until we found him, KT: Yeah. YV: you know, and, and they were, you know, see the kids were perfectly okay because they trusted this adult in the car KT: Yeah YV: and you, you know, like we, we never said anything wrong. We never, you know, gave them a hard time or, or anything like that. We just kept our fingers crossed, you know, and 00:58:04 - KT: it's, uh, very different from today. YV: Yes. 00:58:06 - KT: Um, I don't, I think we're running out of time. Yeah, we've basically run out of time. So, um, okay, thank you. And Transcription Translation KT : Donc, euh, les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et la culture de consommation construite autour des automobiles ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. KT : Euh, vous n'avez pas grandi à Ottawa mais à Verdun, euh, est-ce que Verdun était bilingue ? YV : Oui KT : Euh, à l'époque. YV : Oui, oui. KT : Hum. Nous voulons donc mieux comprendre comment les anglophones et les francophones étaient en quelque sorte liés les uns aux autres. YV : Eh bien, ce n'était pas le cas. Autant que je me souvienne, nous n'avons pas participé à quoi que ce soit avec la communauté française. YV : Um En tant qu'étudiant, c'était complètement séparé, les systèmes scolaires étaient complètement séparés. Si nous faisions du sport à l'école, nous jouions contre les écoles anglaises, nous ne jouions pas contre les écoles françaises. KT : D'ACCORD. YV : D'accord, ce qui était intégré, c'était le hockey. Mon frère jouait et il y avait toujours des joueurs français dans l'équipe. D'accord, donc peut-être avec la section des garçons ou peut-être à cause du type de sport, il y avait plus d'interaction. YV : Euh, ma mère et mon père, euh, les voisins étaient tous anglais. D'accord. YV : Euh, c'est la grande bande dont nous faisions partie ? Nous étions environ 12 enfants, la plupart d'entre eux étaient anglais. Les parents étaient peut-être français, d'accord, mais les enfants, tous, nous avons tous grandi, ils sont devenus anglais. Nous ne sommes pas devenus français. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord ? Ils sont devenus anglais. YV : Et nous rejoignions notre gang. Il n'y avait donc pas beaucoup de partage, KT : Oui. YV : Et c'est probablement une partie du problème qui a mené à la révolution des citations. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, oui. KT : Pensez-vous qu'ils sont devenus anglais parce que leurs parents considéraient l'anglais comme un bon moyen de, euh ? YV : Je, je, je ne suis pas très sûr. YV : Je sais qu'une fois, j'ai postulé pour un emploi dans une banque et j'avais écrit ma lettre de candidature en français et on m'a téléphoné immédiatement pour m'embaucher. Et on m'a téléphoné immédiatement pour m'embaucher. KT : Hm. YV : Mais je n'avais pas un bon bagage linguistique, oral. KT : D'accord. YV : J'ai donc dû dire au gars que, d'accord, mais il cherchait des personnes bilingues qui pouvaient parler français pour travailler dans la banque en tant qu'employé de bureau, KT : Oui. YV : et il ne les trouvait pas. KT : Donc, YV : Il ne les trouvait pas. YV : Tu veux sortir ? YV : Vous savez. Il y avait donc un problème avec l'amitié. Je veux dire, il y avait un fossé, il y en avait un. YV : Allez, tu veux sortir ? Allez, viens. YV : Désolé. Je ne m'attendais pas à avoir KT : um uh huh. Oui, c'est vrai. YV : Même quand je travaillais comme serveuse, tout était en anglais. Les menus étaient en anglais. Je servais en anglais. Les gens commandaient en anglais même s'ils étaient français. D'accord. KT : Quand cela a-t-il changé ? YV : Eh bien, nous, vous savez, ils ont commencé à parler de l'utilisation des mots français appropriés pour, comme, alors j'ai commencé à utiliser Guimauve pour guimauve et les Français ne comprenaient pas de quoi je parlais. KT : Oui, [rires] YV : Donc, vous savez, il y avait tellement d'anglais, je pense, dans leur langue qu'ils utilisaient nos mots bien plus que nous n'utilisions de termes français. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Mais évidemment, ça a commencé à changer à ce moment-là parce que c'est en, euh, 19 Duplessis n'était plus là. Bourrassa était là, alors ils ont probablement commencé à ce moment-là, vous savez, à penser à la culture française et à des choses comme ça. KT : J'ai grandi à Point Clare, dans l'ouest de l'île. Et la façon dont j'ai grandi, c'est que tout ce qui est à l'ouest de Dorval est anglais, n'est-ce pas ? KT : Anglais et pas riches. Mais vous avez, vous avez de l'argent, vous savez. Um et tout ce qui est à l'est est beaucoup plus français et ils n'ont pas autant d'argent. KT : Diriez-vous que c'est un peu la même chose ou que c'est similaire ? YV : Oui, oui, oui. A Verdun, c'était divisé de telle façon que euh il y avait un endroit appelé Crawford Park à cette extrémité, et c'était très anglais et il y avait beaucoup plus d'argent que là où je vivais. D'accord ? YV : Je vivais là où il y avait trois étages dans l'immeuble. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord ? Et donc les immeubles sont à la fois français et anglais. Par exemple, nous vivions au premier étage et nous étions anglais, mais les gens à l'étage étaient français. Nous étions anglais, mais les gens à l'étage étaient français. Ce genre de choses. YV : Il y avait donc une banque mixte et plus loin, vers l'est de Montréal. Vous parlez de Pointe Saint Charles. KT : Oui. YV : Plus français. KT : D'accord. YV : Donc, c'est passé de très, très anglais, à un mélange, puis à très, très français. KT : Intéressant. KT : Avez-vous remarqué des différences économiques ? Par exemple, les Anglais avaient-ils plus d'argent ou ? YV : Ils avaient, ils avaient, ils avaient une voiture. KT : D'accord. YV : Ma mère, mon père et ma mère n'avaient pas de voiture. Les enfants étaient mieux habillés. Ok, que nous. D'accord. YV : Euh, ils allaient, euh, à des choses comme, euh, l'auditorium ou le cinéma ou quelque chose comme ça beaucoup plus souvent que nous. YV : Ils ne participaient pas à la, à la situation du parc. D'accord, le terrain de jeu. YV : Verdun avait un terrain de jeu très, très actif pour les enfants. Vous pouviez aller au terrain de jeu et y rester de 9 h à 9 h et il y avait, il y avait des surveillants. YV : J'étais surveillant, il y avait des surveillants toute la journée qui faisaient des quarts de huit heures et toutes les heures, il y avait une activité prévue. Il pouvait s'agir d'art, de danse, d'emmener les enfants à un match de baseball, vous savez, un match de shag bet, de les emmener nager, toutes sortes de choses. D'accord. YV : Là où je travaillais, il y avait 100% de monde. A l'autre bout, ce n'était pas le cas. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, parce qu'ils pouvaient, ils avaient peut-être un chalet et pouvaient partir le week-end et des choses comme ça. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord KT : Euh, il est évident qu'il y avait beaucoup moins d'électronique dans la société à l'époque où vous étiez à l'université. Hum, comment était structuré votre temps libre ou en aviez-vous ? YV : Eh bien, au lycée ou à l'université ? KT : Euh, euh, l'université. YV : L'université ? Oh, celle-là est difficile, parce que je n'avais pas beaucoup de temps libre. D'accord. YV : Les cours, parfois à cause des laboratoires, comme Abby, duraient longtemps. Je n'avais pas de cours du soir, mais quand je rentrais à la maison, je devais faire mes devoirs et mes travaux. Je n'avais donc pas beaucoup de temps libre. Et quand j'ai commencé à travailler, c'était encore moins parce que je travaillais le vendredi soir, toute la journée du samedi et toute la journée du dimanche, puis j'ai commencé. YV : Je n'avais donc pas beaucoup de temps libre. YV : Je me débrouillais pour aller au match de hockey avec Morris, au cinéma. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord, mais à part ça, pas grand-chose. Et bien sûr, peut-être le mardi soir, il y avait des matchs de basket. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord, et puis au printemps et à l'automne, vous savez, le base-ball, KT : Oui. YV : Mais c'était très souvent l'après-midi parce que tous les parcs n'avaient pas d'éclairage pour travailler le soir. KT : Wow. YV : D'accord, donc vous deviez jouer pendant le.., KT : Oui. YV : L'après-midi. Oui, l'après-midi. KT : Hum. YV : Je lisais beaucoup. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord, j'ai beaucoup lu de mon côté. Hum, KT : C'était des livres de la bibliothèque ou ? YV : Certains venaient de la, beaucoup venaient de la bibliothèque. Pour mon anniversaire et pour Noël, ma mère m'achetait des livres, mais je lui disais où aller. Et il n'y avait qu'une seule librairie anglaise que l'on fréquentait, et c'était celle des classiques. YV : D'accord. Qui a été reprise par Indigo plus tard. D'accord, mais c'était il y a longtemps. YV : C'est dans la rue Sainte-Catherine, près de Bishops. D'accord. KT : Quand vous parliez des matchs de hockey, c'était les Habs ? YV : Oui, mais j'étais un fan de Boston. KT : Ohh. YV : Je le suis toujours. J'ai toujours été, toujours, toujours, toujours, ouais, Morris était un, euh, Canadien de Montréal et mon, mon père était un fervent fan du Canadien de Montréal. Ma mère s'en fichait, et mes soeurs aussi. KT : Non. YV : Non. D'accord. Et puis les deux garçons se sont mis au hockey et une fois qu'ils en ont eu fini avec le hockey, Paul et moi ne sommes jamais retournés voir un autre match. KT : Hm. YV : C'est tout. KT : Était-ce aussi important qu'aujourd'hui ? comme les Habs ? YV : Oh, oui. Oh, oui. KT : C'était l'époque. YV : Oui, c'était les années où il y avait peu de règles sur la glace. Ok, je veux dire, euh, les casques, les joueurs ne portaient pas de casque. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, c'est complètement différent. Même si les enfants portaient des casques, je suis presque sûr que Marcel avait un casque quand il jouait, vous savez, au hockey improvisé, KT : Mhm. YV : Personne ne portait de casque. KT : Oui. YV : Non, KT : Hum. YV : Non. KT : Euh, donc pour passer au campus, euh, où, quels étaient les endroits les plus populaires sur le campus et aussi en dehors du campus ? YV : Bien sûr, il y avait le bâtiment de l'Union à McGill Okay. Il faut se rappeler qu'on n'avait pas le droit d'entrer dans les bars. Donc, vous savez, c'était, euh, vous étiez contrôlé, KT : Oui. YV : On était contrôlé tout le temps. YV : On vous contrôlait tout le temps. KT : Mhm. YV : Si vous entriez. Ok. Donc c'était difficile, difficile d'y aller. Il aurait fallu que ce soit, quelque chose comme un restaurant où, vous savez, un restaurant local. Vous n'auriez pas été autorisé à entrer dans un restaurant au centre-ville de Montréal. D'accord, oui, l'un des, KT : Mhm. YV : Vous ne pouviez pas entrer dans le contiki, par exemple, qui était un bar et un restaurant, vous deviez montrer votre, KT : UNE PIÈCE D'IDENTITÉ. YV : Une pièce d'identité pour entrer KT : Oui. YV : Pour y entrer, vous savez. Donc, donc, euh, donc, euh, les lieux de rencontre auraient été des zones locales où, comme je l'ai dit, la promenade KT : Oui. YV : et le cinéma et, vous savez, les endroits autour du, d'un terrain de baseball ou où les gens patinaient et jouaient au hockey pendant l'hiver, vous savez. YV : Donc, hum, même, même à l'université, je veux dire, j'avais 20 ans quand j'ai obtenu mon diplôme universitaire, je n'avais pas le droit d'entrer dans le, je veux dire, j'y suis allé, vous savez, KT : Oui. YV : mais, vous savez, si on me donnait une carte, c'était, c'était fini, au revoir ! Vous voyez, KT : Yep. YV : Je tenais le haut du pavé. KT : Y avait-il des endroits où l'on pouvait se retrouver sur le campus ? Euh... YV : Non, pas chez nous. Euh, à McGill. Je ne me souviens pas à McGill, je ne me souviens pas. Hum, il n'y avait rien au bâtiment médical et il n'y avait rien à Loyola dont je me souvienne. YV : D'accord, donc il n'y avait que l'Union Building. KT : C'est que je sais, euh, les campus ont maintenant des endroits construits pour, pour traîner, vous savez ? Est-ce que c'était le cas à l'époque ? YV : Non, KT : Non YV : Non, je pense que c'est venu comme un KT : Plus tard. YV : Oui. KT : Oui, d'accord. YV : Oui. KT : Hum, à quel point Marianopolis était-elle intégrée sur le plan linguistique ? YV : Pas du tout. KT : Pas du tout ? YV : Oui. Non, c'était l'anglais. KT : Oui. Hum, YV : C'était anglais. KT : Euh, est-ce qu'il y avait des Français, euh, des gens qui, qui ont essayé d'aller là-bas ? YV : Oh, je ne sais pas. KT : D'accord. YV : Je ne le sais pas. Et je n'ai pas, comme, je n'ai jamais eu d'étudiant français, euh, de camarade de classe. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord, dans mes cours de sciences ? KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Il y en avait peut-être dans les programmes b A. KT : Mhm. YV : Je ne sais pas. Je n'ai pas traîné avec eux. Nous étions trop occupés. On n'avait pas assez de temps pour les fréquenter, vous savez ? Alors, je ne sais pas. Je ne sais pas. KT : Euh, la culture de la fête à laquelle nous faisons référence aujourd'hui, euh, se réfère aux activités sociales en dehors de la salle de classe. Comment décrirais-tu cela ? Il ne s'agit pas forcément de fêtes, mais comme vous avez mentionné la promenade, euh, et à quel point c'était populaire ? YV : Eh bien, c'était, c'était un lieu de rendez-vous pour, euh, vous savez, du printemps à l'automne. Ok, parce qu'il a fermé, le bâtiment, le bâtiment de la promenade... KT : Mhm. YV : Il a fermé pendant l'hiver. Mais quand vous y alliez, il y avait toujours le beau, la beauté. Euh, même si vous ne pouviez pas, vous ne pouviez pas boire à l'intérieur. Je veux dire, je ne dis pas qu'il n'y avait pas d'alcool à l'intérieur, mais il y avait un parc tout autour. KT : Mhm. Donc vous pouviez, vous savez, participer à la musique, participer à la musique qui venait de là parce que c'était souvent un DJ ou un groupe populaire dans la région. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord. C'était donc un de ces endroits où vous, vous savez, vous, vous voyez dans un film où les filles sont toutes habillées et traînent et dansent sur l'herbe ou quoi que ce soit d'autre qui ki ce genre d'association. Rien de plus, de plus formel que cela. Et bien souvent, il s'agissait simplement de groupes d'enfants. Donc, dans ma bande, nous étions, bon Dieu, j'essaie de réfléchir. Nous devions être 15, 15 personnes. YV : Nous étions des garçons et des filles, KT : Mhm. YV : Mais on ne se mettait pas par deux, garçons et filles. Tout le monde se rencontrait, KT : Oui. YV : On allait faire quelque chose, puis on rentrait à la maison et le lendemain, on se rencontrait à nouveau. Parfois, c'était juste un match de football ou on allait tous à la piscine ou au cinéma, mais ce n'était pas untel ou untel qui était avec quelqu'un d'autre et... KT : Oui. YV : Donc non, ce n'était rien de tout cela. YV : D'accord ? Mais c'était, vous savez, quand j'avais 18 ans, vous savez, ce genre de choses. KT : Mhm YV : Il n'y avait pas d'appariement et j'imagine que cela s'est poursuivi sur la promenade, d'accord ? YV : Jusqu'à ce que, vous savez, je veux dire, les gens se marient quand ils sont assez jeunes, vous savez, beaucoup de mes amis étaient mariés avant d'avoir 20 ans, vous savez. KT : Wow. YV : Donc, oui, KT : Très différent, très différent d'aujourd'hui. YV : Oui, très différent d'aujourd'hui parce qu'à l'époque, c'est ce que vous faisiez, KT : Oui. YV : On se mariait, puis on avait des enfants et on recommençait le cycle, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez. KT : Euh, y avait-il des fêtes comme celles auxquelles on pense aujourd'hui, euh, quand on est à l'université, ou était-ce plutôt au bar ? C'est ça ? Il n'y avait pas de fêtes à la maison. Il y avait YV : Non, non, il n'y en avait pas. Je n'ai jamais été chez l'un de mes camarades de classe, KT : Mhm. chez eux. Et je n'ai jamais, non, pas un seul KT : Hm. YV : pas chez Dana, pas chez Christine. Non, non, non, jamais. KT : Donc tous les, tous les, les lieux de rencontre étaient à l'extérieur de, YV : En dehors de l'école et dans votre propre quartier. Pas, pas euh vous n'aviez pas de lieu commun où vous vous retrouviez. KT : Alors, vous aviez des amis différents à l'école et des amis différents là où vous avez grandi ? YV : Oui. KT : Est-ce qu'ils se mélangeaient ? YV : Non. KT : Y avait-il quelqu'un avec qui vous aviez grandi ? Et ils allaient à la même école ? YV : Euh, Gail, j'ai grandi avec Gail et elle est allée à Marianapolis aussi, mais dans le programme artistique. KT : D'accord. YV : Je ne l'ai donc pas vue. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, Christine a suivi le programme artistique. Joyce est allée dans le programme artistique. YV : Il n'y avait pas beaucoup de gens qui allaient dans le programme scientifique. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord, donc une fois qu'on est arrivé et qu'on s'est dit bonjour le matin ou qu'on a pris une tasse de café ou quoi que ce soit d'autre, on ne les a jamais vus ? Vous ne les avez jamais vus ? KT : Oui. YV : Et, et nous avions toujours un laboratoire, nous avions toujours des laboratoires. Alors vous, vous entriez dans le café à quatre heures de l'après-midi et il n'y avait personne, KT : [rires] YV : Il n'y avait que les scientifiques. KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, nous sommes tous en train de faire du travail de laboratoire KT : [rires] YV : ou on fait tous des rapports de laboratoire ou on fait des putains de maths. On faisait tellement de maths, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez. YV : Alors, non, c'est vraiment, vraiment intéressant quand j'y pense parce que, euh, quand vous, ok, vous entrez par la porte et il y a un vestiaire et puis vous montez les escaliers, il y a des toilettes et puis ils ont des machines à café et, vous savez, comme un distributeur automatique, KT : Mhm. YV : Pas de la nourriture, du café, peut-être des boissons non alcoolisées. YV : D'accord, et puis vous alliez dans ce qu'on appelait la cafétéria. Ce côté était le côté art et ce côté était le côté science. KT : C'était fait exprès ou juste ? YV : Non, c'est juste la façon dont ça s'est passé. Je pense que c'est parce qu'on se promenait en blouse blanche toute la journée parce qu'on était, et on sentait parce que chaque laboratoire produisait quelque chose qui empestait l'endroit, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, et vous. Ma, même ma mère dirait la même chose. KT : [rires] YV : Elle montrait l'arrière et disait, prenez vos affaires là-bas, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, nous étions si, si mauvais, vous savez. YV : Je pense que c'est, et puis ça a empiré dans le sens où tu t'impliquais davantage dans tes cours de sciences et ton laboratoire, et eux s'impliquaient davantage dans leur truc, et tu voyais de moins en moins les amis que tu avais au lycée. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, mais vous ne vous êtes pas fait beaucoup d'amis sociaux à l'université, comme moi, KT : Mhm. YV : Je, vous savez, je partais le vendredi après-midi et j'allais travailler, vous savez, donc il n'y avait pas beaucoup de temps pour les relations sociales et ce genre de choses, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez. KT : Euh, je sais que la guerre du Vietnam est arrivée un peu plus tard. Hum, et, vous savez, le Canada, nous n'y participions pas. Mais que pensiez-vous de la guerre du Vietnam ? Saviez-vous quelque chose à ce sujet ? YV : Eh bien, j'en savais quelque chose dans le sens où mon petit ami est allé, a été enrôlé là-bas. Il y avait trois gars de ma région qui traînaient ensemble et qui se sont enrôlés en même temps. D'accord. YV : Morris a été tué. Les deux autres ne l'ont pas été. YV : Euh, mais j'étais au courant, euh, de la guerre à cette époque, mais il n'y avait rien à la télévision, jusqu'à plus tard. D'accord, avec Walter Conkright et Tom Brokaw et quelques-uns de ces gars de CBS. D'accord. YV : N'oubliez pas que nous n'avions pas Internet. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. YV : Et si j'avais de la chance, je voyais les nouvelles à la télévision, parce que je devais compter sur la radio ou, ou je rentrais à la maison à sept heures du soir et les nouvelles étaient terminées parce que les nouvelles étaient diffusées de 18 h à 19 h à la télévision. D'accord. YV : Ce n'était pas, euh, vous n'aviez pas CNN qui présentait les nouvelles toute la journée. KT : Oui. YV : Cela n'arrivait pas. D'accord. Les nouvelles n'étaient pas diffusées de 6 à 7 et de 11 à 12. KT : Y avait-il quelque chose dans les magazines que vous disiez lire ? YV : Oui. Et Time Magazine, Time écrivait des choses sur le Vietnam, mais ils écrivaient ce qu'ils avaient à écrire, vous savez, donc on n'entendait pas beaucoup parler de ce qui se passait. On n'entendait pas parler du nombre de morts. On n'entendait pas parler du napalm qui était largué. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord ? Beaucoup de choses ne sont apparues que lorsque Nixon est arrivé et a commencé à envahir le Cambodge pour essayer d'atteindre le Vietnam. D'accord. C'est à ce moment-là que les ordures ont commencé à apparaître et que les sacs mortuaires ont commencé à être ramenés à la maison KT : Oui. YV : Et c'était à la télévision, où l'on voyait les cercueils descendre de l'avion. Je pense que c'est à ce moment-là que les gens ont commencé à comprendre que les Américains n'allaient pas gagner cette guerre. KT : Oui. KT : Y avait-il des Vietnamiens ou des Asiatiques avec qui vous avez grandi ou avec qui vous êtes allé à l'école ? YV : Non, KT : Donc, YV : Non. Il y avait un quartier chinois ? D'accord. Mais, et, d'accord, connaissez-vous Montréal ? KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, Atwater ? KT : Oui. YV : Ok. Tout ce quartier était un quartier noir. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord, et Chinatown était plus à l'est et au sud. Je ne pense pas avoir eu un seul élève noir en classe. Mon école. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord, et certainement pas un Asiatique. Je ne me souviens pas que nous ayons eu des Polonais, KT : Mhm. YV : Des Hongrois, des Tchèques, des Allemands, certainement beaucoup d'Anglais. Pas de Français. KT : Non. YV : Non, il y avait peut-être des gens qui parlaient français mais ils n'étaient pas français. KT : Oui. YV : Français. Ok. Donc, non. D'accord. KT : Euh, donc il y a eu euh, des artistes de rock and roll. YV : Hm. KT : dans les années 60, n'est-ce pas ? YV : Hm. KT : En y repensant, les gens disent qu'ils ont encouragé diverses formes de protestation et que c'était une façon de se rebeller contre leurs parents. YV : Oh oui Joan Baez et, et tous ces types, oui KT : qui l'ont fait, YV : Um KT : Qu'est-ce que vous en avez pensé ? YV : On aimait la musique, mais je ne sais pas si on pensait que c'était personnel, je ne pense pas que ça m'encourageait à, vous savez, à me battre contre quoi que ce soit, KT : Oui. YV : ou rien de ce genre. Vous savez, KT : Mhm. YV : Je pense que beaucoup de gens comme moi pensaient que c'était un problème américain, KT : D'accord. YV : Pas un problème canadien parce que, eh bien, le Canada a peut-être soutenu verbalement. Ils n'ont rien fait. Je veux dire, ils, vous savez, dans ce sens, ok. Et les gens qui se sont portés volontaires pour aller dans l'armée américaine, ils l'ont fait comme, comme un choix de leur part, il n'y avait pas de problème de euh traverser la frontière et de s'inscrire au poste de l'armée ou quoi que ce soit, KT : Mhm. YV : Vous savez, personne ne vous posait de questions, vous vouliez y aller, vous y alliez, c'est tout, vous savez, KT : Oui. YV : Vous n'aviez pas à passer par la douane ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. Il n'y avait rien. KT : Wow. YV : Ok. Donc, ce n'était pas, vous savez, ce n'était pas un problème. C'était un problème américain. C'était un problème américain. Ce n'était pas un problème canadien. KT : Intéressant. Hum. YV : Eh bien, nous étions très statiques. Nous, nous n'oublions pas que les Canadiens sont très statiques. Très conservateurs. Ils aiment beaucoup de choses derrière des portes closes. KT : Oui. C'est vrai. YV : C'est toujours le cas. Kt : Oui. Nous sommes comme les Américains. Mais très différents. YV : Pas comme les Américains. KT : Oui. Hum, une partie de la culture des jeunes, les voix des années soixante-dix ont fait la promotion des drogues récréatives. YV : Oui. KT : Hum, vous êtes allé dans une université catholique, je suppose que ces drogues n'étaient pas présentes. YV : Non. KT : Oui. YV : Non, et même la quantité de drogues récréatives dans les écoles était minimale. Même, même dans les années 70, dans mon lycée. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord. Je veux dire, quand je suis parti, non, peut-être dans les années 80 et au début des années 90, on pouvait, chaque professeur connaissait tous les vendeurs de drogue de l'école, KT : Mhm. YV : et le chef de meute était l'un des enfants les plus intelligents de l'école. Très sociable. Très poli. Bonjour, mademoiselle. Comment allez-vous et tout le reste ? KT : C'est intéressant de voir comment ça marche YV : Et il a fait fortune, KT : Wow. Euh, et l'endroit où vous avez grandi, à Verdun ? YV : Oui. KT : Avez-vous remarqué, avez-vous remarqué quelque chose à propos de la drogue là-bas ? YV : Non, je ne peux pas dire que c'était le cas. Même en. Non, non, je pense que c'était quelque chose qui se faisait discrètement entre amis. KT : Oui. YV : Ce n'était pas, euh, vous savez, tout le parc qui s'illuminait. D'accord. Ce n'était pas, euh, vous savez, euh, Woodstock ou quelque chose comme ça. D'accord. KT : Mhm. YV : Non, tout se faisait discrètement. Vous savez, vos amis, si vous, si vos, si c'était vos amis et que vous fumiez un joint, d'accord. C'était vos amis. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Ce n'était pas, vous savez, l'ensemble des 200 personnes qui sont là KT : Oui. YV : Avec vos amis, vous savez. KT : J'aimerais passer à l'expérience féminine. YV : Oh mon, ok. KT : Euh, en, oui, avec vos propres mots. Qu'est-ce que le féminisme signifiait, euh, pour vous quand vous étiez à l'université ? Vous, vous avez dit que vous étiez dans une université de filles, n'est-ce pas ? Est-ce que c'était présent ou est-ce que c'était un peu n'importe quoi ? YV : Je ne pense pas que c'était une préoccupation majeure. Je ne pense pas que ce soit une préoccupation majeure. Je ne pense pas que le féminisme entre en jeu lorsque vous êtes à l'université avec un groupe de femmes. Je ne pense pas que le féminisme entre en jeu lorsque vous êtes à l'université avec un groupe de femmes. Ce n'est que si vous vous lancez dans une carrière ou quelque chose du genre, que cela se manifeste parce que vous n'avez pas eu ce genre d'attitude. Les hommes qui sont professeurs n'ont jamais eu ça. Les hommes qui sont professeurs n'ont jamais eu ce genre d'attitude. KT : Mhm. YV : Et nous avions beaucoup de femmes professeurs et elles étaient comme des modèles pour vous. Vous voyez, KT : Oui. YV : Euh, une de mes professeures de physique était enceinte de neuf mois, elle est allée accoucher et a repris ses cours en deux jours. KT : Wow. YV : D'accord. Comme tout le monde l'a dit, était-elle vraiment enceinte ? KT : [rires] YV : Ce genre de choses. KT : Oui. Yep. YV : Mais elle l'était, vous savez, mais d'un autre côté, le docteur Tasik, qui était mon professeur de biologie, euh, elle était très, très féminine, vous savez, au point où, vous savez, elle, elle ne me donnerait pas un, elle ne relèverait pas, elle ne permettrait pas à une personne de passer. Un cours de bactériologie parce que cela me donnerait un 90 et elle ne le permettrait pas. YV : Maintenant, pourquoi feriez-vous cela ? Vous comprenez ? Est-ce parce qu'elle est contre les bonnes notes ? Je veux dire, quel était le problème avec le fait qu'elle ait eu 90, vous savez, KT : Oui. YV : Et je n'arrivais jamais à obtenir une réponse d'elle, vous savez. KT : Mhm. YV : Donc, c'était peut-être très subtil. D'accord. Mais ce n'était pas quelque chose qui était promu et ce n'était donc pas quelque chose que, que nous, nous devions avoir euh autre que cette situation à Biochem et à McGill avec ce type. KT : Oui. YV : Jusqu'à ce que je dise finalement non. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Et il a reculé. KT : Oui, et quand vous êtes devenue enseignante ? Avez-vous remarqué quelque chose de ce genre avec vos, euh, avez-vous eu d'autres collègues qui étaient des femmes ? Et est-ce que vous avez déjà parlé de ce genre de choses ? YV : Non, il faut se souvenir. J'ai 21 ans et je suis l'homme le plus bas du totem, KT : Oui YV : Vous savez, alors quelqu'un qui est là depuis 20 ans, ce n'est pas le cas, KT : Oui. YV : vous savez, on ne lance pas beaucoup de choses. Non, c'était seulement quand nous, quand, quand Paul et moi sommes allés à notre, euh, régional de Richmond. D'accord. Et je me suis impliqué dans les affaires syndicales et j'ai fait partie de ce qu'on appelle le conseil d'école. C'était l'équivalent d'un conseil étudiant, sauf que c'est au niveau de l'enseignant. D'accord ? Et, ou au niveau administratif. Et puis, on prenait ce qu'on apprenait au syndicat et on l'appliquait aux situations de l'école. Mais il fallait faire très, très attention parce que beaucoup d'hommes pensaient que, comme je l'ai dit, j'aurais dû rester à la maison et élever plus d'enfants anglais pour la communauté anglaise. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Ce que je, vous savez, si je, mon mari et je disais, si mon mari et mon père n'ont aucun problème avec le fait que je travaille, qu'est-ce que vous faites ? Vous voyez, KT : Oui. YV : Vous n'avez pas le droit de me dire ce que je dois faire, vous savez. Donc ce n'était pas, c'était peut-être comme beaucoup d'enseignants masculins qui étaient là et dont les femmes restaient à la maison et élevaient leurs enfants. C'était donc une question de génération. KT : Mhm. YV : Et au fur et à mesure que les jeunes enseignants arrivaient, que les plus âgés prenaient leur retraite. Eh bien, nous ne pensions pas tous de cette façon. Vous savez, nous avions tous, je me souviens qu'il y avait un professeur dans notre école qui n'avait pas de chéquier, pas de carte de crédit. KT : Wow. YV : D'accord. Et c'était, elle est arrivée l'année avant que Shane n'obtienne son diplôme, en 86. D'accord. Je me souviens qu'une autre enseignante et moi-même lui avons dit : tu vas demander une carte de crédit, puis tu iras au magasin, tu achèteras quelque chose, tu le chargeras et quand la facture arrivera, tu la paieras. Et maintenant, votre ligne de crédit est établie, votre KT : Oui. YV : votre historique de crédit est établi. Ce n'est qu'à ce moment-là qu'elle a commencé à se rendre compte qu'elle gagnait de l'argent et qu'il fallait qu'elle prenne soin d'elle. Et c'est une bonne chose parce que son mari travaillait sur le toit et il est tombé, il était attaché, mais il est tombé et son dos a heurté la balustrade du balcon et l'a paralysé. Il est tombé et son dos a heurté la balustrade du balcon et l'a paralysé. KT : Oh wow. YV : Pendant deux ans, il a été en congé de maladie, puis il est retourné au travail. Il était professeur de mathématiques et il y avait un ascenseur dans l'école, alors il pouvait conduire et se déplacer dans l'ascenseur et monter jusqu'à sa salle de classe. D'accord, mais cela lui a imposé un lourd fardeau et elle a retrouvé sa stabilité financière grâce à ce que nous lui avions dit de faire. KT : Oui. YV : Il y avait donc, nous sommes à la fin des années quatre-vingt. Il y avait donc beaucoup de gens qui avaient des idées vraiment démodées et puis il y avait, vous savez, quelques uns d'entre nous dans la salle du personnel, nous avons dit non, non, non, non, non, nous ne ferons pas ça, KT : Yep. YV : vous savez, et comment économiser de l'argent et où le mettre à l'abri de l'impôt et toutes sortes de choses comme ça. D'accord, mais nous l'avons fait discrètement. Nous ne le faisions pas avec des hommes autour de nous. KT : Pensez-vous qu'il s'agissait davantage de s'entraider que de dire un grand " F U " aux hommes ? Et comme YV : Je pense que c'était plus une question d'entraide que de, vous savez, vous savez, le truc c'est qu'avec beaucoup, beaucoup d'hommes, certains n'auraient jamais dit un mot, mais il y en avait d'autres qui auraient rejeté l'idée. Pourquoi voulez-vous faire ça ? Pourquoi votre mari ne le fait-il pas ? Vous voyez, KT : Oui. YV : Paul et moi nous sommes mariés la deuxième année. Il est allé chercher de l'argent à la banque. Et deux jours plus tard, il ne pouvait pas me dire où il avait dépensé les 200 dollars. Au début des années soixante-dix, 200 dollars, c'était beaucoup d'argent. KT : Oui. YV : Il m'a regardé et m'a dit : " Je veux que tu prennes en charge les finances KT : Intelligent. YV : Et il n'avait pas d'argent de poche ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. Mais quand il voulait de l'argent, il pouvait aller à la banque. Mais je lui disais, d'accord. Qu'est-ce que tu as fait ? Tu as mis de l'essence dans la voiture ? Tu as acheté tes cigarettes ? KT : Oui. YV : Tu as acheté de la bière ? Vous avez acheté de la bière ? Oh, d'accord, et il a appris petit à petit. D'accord. C'est donc là que mon implication est intervenue KT : Oui. YV : Parce qu'avant cela, je ne faisais pas grand-chose. D'accord. Et c'est toujours mon père, qui était analphabète, qui signait les chèques, et non ma mère qui était alphabétisée, qui pouvait faire des maths, qui pouvait faire des choses comme ça ? Je n'ai pas pu obtenir de prêt. Euh, je devais faire signer mon mari pour un prêt. D'accord. KT : Wow. Ce n'est pas si loin. YV : Non, il n'y a pas si longtemps. Vous savez, c'était il n'y a pas si longtemps. Quoi qu'il en soit. KT : Hum. YV : Donc, le féminisme. Eh bien, je pense que nous avons travaillé tranquillement... KT : Oui. YV : à ce que nous pouvions faire. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, parce que ça ne faisait pas de vagues pour qui que ce soit, vous voyez ? KT : Donc, toutes les protestations sont plus américaines, selon vous ? Et YV : Oui. Eh bien, peut-être dans les grandes villes. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord. KT : Oui. YV : Par opposition au fait d'être américain, je pense que c'est le genre de grande ville, parce que leurs idées auraient été plus individuelles, parce qu'il n'y a pas ce genre de communauté. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Et parce que dans une petite ville, tout le monde connaissait tout le monde, tout le monde connaissait Paul et moi, KT : Yep. YV : Ouais, il y a M. et Mme Voisard, vous savez, nous ne savions pas qui, qui ils étaient. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, mais ils savaient qui nous étions, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, il y a donc beaucoup de circonspection à laquelle il faut faire attention dans une petite communauté. Si vous voulez, vous savez, jeter votre soutien-gorge, c'est beaucoup plus facile de le faire en ville que d'aller au cénotaphe local... KT : Oui. YV : et, vous savez, faire tournoyer votre soutien-gorge parce que c'était une place à, à Richmond et c'était un cénotaphe, vous savez, donc, KT : Euh, nous avons parlé de la façon dont le fait d'être une femme entraînait un traitement différent et des attentes différentes dans les salles de classe. Quand vous avez eu ces, ces euh était-ce de la biochimie ? YV : Hm KT : avec euh les YV : Les étudiants de McGill ? KT : Avec les étudiants de McGill, avez-vous remarqué une différence de traitement de la part des professeurs ? Euh, non ? YV : Non. Euh, vous ne faites pas de laboratoires, n'est-ce pas ? KT : Non. YV : Ce qui se passe est ok. Dans un laboratoire ? Je vais supposer que c'est la même chose pour Abby. Je ne sais pas. Mais dans un laboratoire, euh, vous pouvez avoir une session de 20 ou 30 minutes, euh, euh, une session d'enseignement avant et ensuite vous donnez dans le laboratoire. KT : Et ensuite, il suffit de le faire YV : Allez-y. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord. Vous deviez donc lire le laboratoire. Vous saviez en quelque sorte sur quoi vous étiez censé travailler. KT : Mhm YV : Parce que vous venez d'avoir un cours sur le sujet. D'accord. KT : Oui. YV : Hum, mais vous, tout ce que vous aviez, c'était un technicien qui se promenait pour s'assurer que les éviers ne se bouchaient pas ou que vous pouviez obtenir un produit chimique particulier ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. KT : Mhm. YV : Vous avez juste travaillé pendant trois heures sur cette mission et vous êtes parti, vous savez. KT : Mhm. Hum. YV : Donc il n'y avait pas, il n'y avait pas, comme, je ne pense pas que j'ai vu le professeur du tout dans un laboratoire. KT : D'accord YV : D'accord. YV : C'était son étudiant de quatrième année ou quelque chose comme ça qui était technicien pour la journée, KT : Oui. Euh, quand vous étiez professeur, YV : Mhm. KT : Quand vous avez commencé à enseigner. Vous l'avez fait ? Je sais que vous avez enseigné à des lycéens. YV : Oui. KT : Ils sont donc un peu plus, je suppose, rebelles que, euh, que l'université. Mais avez-vous remarqué une différence de traitement entre les enfants et les enseignants masculins ? Ou ? YV : Je ne sais pas, je ne sais pas parce que, euh, votre classe est votre classe ? Vous ne savez pas, vous ne savez pas ce qui est... KT : Oui. YV : Ce qui se passe dans les autres classes, vous savez, vous ne voyez pas, et vous ne voyez pas beaucoup de choses dans le couloir. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord, à l'époque. Je veux dire, vous n'étiez pas censé être dans un couloir, point, vous savez, euh, vous marchiez dans un couloir, quelqu'un pouvait vous arrêter et vous dire, qu'est-ce que vous faites ici ? KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, ce genre de choses. D'accord. KT : Mhm YV : Donc, non, je, je vais dire non, je ne suis pas au courant d'une quelconque, d'une quelconque différence entre les étudiants et les enseignants. Non. KT : D'accord. Euh... Est-ce qu'il y a eu des différences quand vous étiez à l'université ? YV : Oui, c'est vrai KT : Euh, y avait-il des programmes ? Hum. Vous avez mentionné que vous n'étiez pas nombreux dans le domaine des sciences. YV : Hm. KT : Des programmes ? Y avait-il des clubs à l'époque ? Hum YV : Hm. KT : Je ne peux même pas penser à un exemple de club. YV : Oui, je sais. Je sais que vous pensez à un club de théâtre, KT : Oui, des choses comme ça YV : Une chorale, des choses comme ça. En fait, je ne sais pas. Il n'y en avait pas, il n'y en avait pas pour les sciences. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord. Non, il n'y en a pas pour les sciences. Il y en avait peut-être dans la section art, dans la section B A. KT : Oui. YV : Je ne sais pas, je ne sais pas, mais ce n'était pas un truc de théâtre parce que je ne me souviens pas d'avoir assisté à des productions de théâtre. D'accord. KT : Oui. YV : Mes clubs étaient donc à l'extérieur, avec mes activités sportives, KT : Oui. YV : Avec les sports de ma ville. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord. KT : Les historiens ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent la révolution de la contre-culture. Ce qui signifie que votre génération s'est rebellée contre les valeurs de la génération de vos parents. Dans quelle mesure les gens de votre cercle social, à la fois à l'université et chez vous à Verdun ? Où aimiez-vous ? Vous considérez-vous comme devant faire quelque chose pour créer une société plus juste et un monde meilleur, comme, par exemple, pour moi qui ai grandi, toute cette histoire de changement climatique est, vous savez, énorme, comme beaucoup de gens de mon âge, oh vous devez recycler, recycler, recycler le changement climatique, vous savez, y avait-il quelque chose de ce genre quand vous étiez ? YV : Je vais dire non, non, je pense, je pense que c'était en grande partie une réforme de l'éducation à l'époque. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord, et seules les personnes qui travaillaient dans l'éducation ou qui avaient des enfants dans le système scolaire étaient au courant. D'accord. Euh, le fossé entre les Français et les Anglais était en train de se creuser, vous savez, euh, euh, où le secteur français, vous deveniez médecin ou avocat ou vous travailliez... KT : Mhm YV : Ok. Donc, vous savez, à bien des égards, c'était exactement la même chose que le secteur anglais. J'ai une nièce qui a trois enfants, tous sont allés dans un collège ou un lycée privé. KT : Mhm. YV : Et puis ils sont allés dans des CEGEP privés dans le secteur français. KT : Oui. YV : Et ils sont maintenant, vous savez, soit à euh en fait deux d'entre eux ont étudié à l'université aux États-Unis. Le fait qu'ils soient allés dans un établissement privé français. KT : Oui. YV : Ils ont appris l'anglais. KT : Intéressant. YV : D'accord, parce qu'on n'apprend pas autant l'anglais dans le système public, dans le système français, que dans le secteur privé. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. C'est pourquoi, et je veux dire, dans le privé, je veux dire, 35 000 $ par an, Oui. YV : Je ne parle pas des trois ou quatre mille dollars où l'on peut aller pour citer ce qu'ils appellent un lycée privé français. KT : Oui YV : Euh, euh. Je veux dire, le vrai bon, il y avait beaucoup d'argent qui a été dépensé et beaucoup d'éducation. KT : Hm. YV : Ok. Donc, il n'y avait pas beaucoup de, je veux dire, le changement climatique n'était même pas un problème. D'accord. Euh, même pas, euh, le prix des aliments n'était pas un problème. Euh, même les voitures et, et le smog ou quoi que ce soit de ce genre n'était pas un problème. La moitié de la population du Québec n'avait pas de voiture. Nous utilisions les transports en commun KT : Oui. YV : pour aller partout dans la ville. D'accord. KT : Mhm. YV : Oui. Donc, non, je ne pense pas, je ne pense pas qu'il y ait eu un problème majeur dont les gens étaient conscients. Par exemple, je veux dire, le Québec a commencé à établir son propre formulaire d'impôt sur le revenu en 60 67 68 72. Et je ne me souviens même pas d'avoir entendu parler de ça. KT : Hm. YV : D'accord. Ils, ils ont mis en place leur propre RRQ KT : Oui. YV : et leur propre régime d'impôt sur le revenu. KT : Intéressant YV : et je ne me souviens pas que quelqu'un ait fait des histoires à ce sujet. Je pense, je pense que ça a beaucoup à voir avec la société très patriarcale comme, euh, aujourd'hui la CAQ, euh, vous savez, c'est Legault, qui décide de tout. C'est pas son cabinet, c'est des conneries. KT : Ouais. YV : C'est lui qui dit oui. Non, ou quoi que ce soit. KT : Mhm. Avez-vous remarqué quelque chose, euh, comme aujourd'hui il y a beaucoup de, euh, de justice sociale pour, euh, les homosexuels YV : Oui, non. KT : Et les Noirs, et tout ça. YV : Non. KT : Y en avait-il ? Rien de tout cela ? YV : Non. Non. En fait, beaucoup de choses étaient probablement mal vues. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord, beaucoup plus. Je veux dire, euh, euh, je ne sais pas combien de Noirs étaient autorisés à entrer pour citer le contiki. J'aime utiliser le contiki parce que c'était un bar anglais. KT : Mhm. YV : Ce genre de choses. Vous savez, ils avaient leurs propres établissements, vous savez, pour sortir pour toutes sortes de choses différentes, vous savez, et comme je l'ai dit, je ne me souviens même pas que des Noirs vivaient dans mon quartier à Verdun. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Et la même chose s'applique à Richmond. Ce n'est que bien des années plus tard que nous avons eu une personne de couleur à l'école, à l'école, à l'école. Shane et Jason n'ont donc jamais grandi. Ils étaient au courant parce que nous les amenions partout où nous allions. Chaque fois que nous venions à Montréal et que nous allions au cinéma ou que nous restions à l'hôtel pendant le week-end pour un tournoi de natation ou de hockey, c'est là qu'ils voyaient une autre culture. KT : Mhm. YV : Mais c'était, vous savez, au hockey ou ailleurs. D'accord. KT : Oui. YV : Il n'y avait rien à, à Richmond et il y avait très peu à Sherbrooke KT : Et rien de tout cela n'était voulu, n'est-ce pas ? C'était juste, YV : Non, c'était comme ça. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Maintenant, je me souviens, hum, je me souviens quand les émeutes ont eu lieu à la fin des années 60 aux États-Unis, L.A. a explosé, KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Chicago a explosé. KT : Oui. YV : New Jersey. D'accord. Nous aurions, nous avions beaucoup de visiteurs qui venaient des États-Unis et beaucoup d'entre eux étaient noirs et, euh, je veux dire, ils devaient avoir de l'argent pour venir au Canada et y rester pour quelque raison que ce soit. Mais c'étaient les seuls que nous voyions dans nos restaurants. Normalement, nous n'avions pas de Noirs qui venaient au restaurant A&W. KT : Hm. YV : D'accord. Mais A&W est une chaîne aux États-Unis et ils la connaissent bien. D'accord. KT : Oui. YV : Alors ils, parce qu'il n'y avait pas de Burger King. Burger King n'est pas venu au Canada. Oh. Oh, Jason est né en 74-75. Burger King était encore aux États-Unis, il n'est pas venu au Canada KT : Oui. YV : Et McDonald's. Je ne sais même pas si McDonald's existait à l'époque. A&W était donc bien, et c'était une chaîne familière. KT : Mhm YV : Et je pense que c'est la raison pour laquelle nous avons, vous savez, KT : Oui, intéressant. YV : Donc, non, non, il n'y en avait pas. Nous, nous, nous n'avions tout simplement pas, KT : Oui. YV : On ne se rencontrait pas, on ne se réunissait pas pour quoi que ce soit. KT : Hm. Dans quelle mesure votre génération pensait-elle que les idées de vos parents sur le genre, la famille et les relations amoureuses étaient dépassées ? Comme YV : Je n'en ai aucune idée. KT : Oui, YV : Aucune idée à ce sujet. Je ne pense pas que papa et maman aient jamais eu quoi que ce soit de concret à dire à ce sujet, vous savez, quand Lilian a commencé à sortir ou quand Marcel a commencé à sortir ou quand j'ai commencé à sortir, il n'y avait pas de, vous savez, KT : On n'essayait pas de contrôler ? YV : Non, non, non, non, non, non. Je pense que nous avons été élevés à un point tel que nous savions, KT : Mhm. YV : vous savez, qu'il y avait des limites, KT : Oui. YV : Ce genre de choses KT : Oui. YV : que, ok, et nous absorbons simplement les limites et utilisons les limites. Euh, vous savez, sans même y penser. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. KT : Euh, étiez-vous en phase avec le système politique ? YV : Je vais dire que non, je ne l'étais pas. Je veux dire que je savais peut-être qui était le premier ministre à l'époque et des choses comme ça. Mais à part ça, non, et c'est seulement, vous savez, à Saint Joe's quand j'ai fait mon Bachelor of Education quand le rapport des parents est arrivé et c'était seulement parce que nous devions suivre un programme d'histoire de l'éducation. C'était uniquement parce que nous devions suivre un programme d'histoire de l'éducation. Bien sûr, il y a quelque chose qui va dans ce sens. KT : Mhm. YV : A part ça. Non. Non, KT : Intéressant YV : Ce n'était pas le cas. Hum, non, KT : ce n'était pas grand. YV : Ce n'était pas important. Je ne savais même pas qu'il y avait un maire de Verdun, et nous habitions en face de l'hôtel de ville. KT : Oui. YV : Non, la politique n'était pas, KT : pas aussi importante qu'elle l'est. YV : Non. KT : Pensez-vous que cela ait un rapport avec la connectivité de la société d'aujourd'hui ? Hum, YV : Eh bien, je pense, je pense, oui, je pense que le fait que tant de choses peuvent se produire et qu'en deux minutes, tout le monde sait ce qui se passe. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. Hum, et je suis sûr que cela a beaucoup à voir avec le, euh, le Vietnam et les reportages sur le Vietnam et puis, et puis Nixon qui s'est retrouvé dans les problèmes qu'il, et, et puis, vous savez, comme si tout d'un coup il y avait un procès à la télévision, comme, je veux dire, le juge était juste là et ils, vous savez, vous savez, ils interrogeaient John Dean et tous les, les gens qui travaillaient pour, pour Nixon, vous savez, comme si cela n'était jamais arrivé nulle part à aucun moment. Et puis tout d'un coup, vous savez, KT : Boom. YV : Boom, toutes ces choses ont commencé à sortir, vous savez, et ça a pu soulever quelques questions sur ce qui se passait au Québec ou, vous savez, vous savez, Renée Lévesque se présentant comme, euh, vous savez, le PQ et, et ce genre de choses. Mais au début des années 70, non. KT : Avez-vous, euh, quelle a été la première fois que vous avez voté, si vous avez voté ? YV : Oh, oui, j'ai voté quand j'ai eu le droit de voter. KT : D'accord. YV : J'ai voté tout le temps, j'ai toujours voté. KT : Et c'était plus, euh, vous votiez pour un parti spécifique ou vous, vous votiez pour la personne ? YV : Cela dépendait. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord, mais la plupart du temps, c'était au niveau fédéral, c'était pour le parti au niveau provincial. Ça variait parce qu'il n'y avait pas de PQ impliqué là-dedans. D'accord. KT : Mhm. YV : Vous pouviez donc, euh, vous savez, légitimement, vous savez, voter pour un individu. KT : Oui. YV : Et plus tard, euh, à Richmond, par exemple, euh, même dans la politique municipale, c'était pour l'individu. D'accord ? Et puis pour le provincial, c'était, c'était politique, c'était le parti. Mais au niveau fédéral, c'était ce qu'il y avait sur la liste, pas les gens, KT : Mhm YV : mais ce qu'il y avait sur la liste. Ok. Donc ça, ça a changé. D'accord. De faire, c'est quelque chose de très spécifique à prendre des décisions plus, euh, décisives et de savoir que si vous alliez dans un sens, votre vote ne compterait pour rien, mais il montrerait au moins qu'il y avait une dissidence, qu'il y avait des voix dissidentes. KT : Oui. YV : Oui. KT : Hum, donc vous avez dit que vous n'étiez pas vraiment au courant ou en phase avec le système politique ? Saviez-vous si, euh, comme pour moi qui ai grandi, j'ai toujours, euh, l'Ouest de l'île a toujours été très libéral, n'est-ce pas ? J'ai voté quand j'avais 18 ans. Peu importe pour qui je votais. Les libéraux allaient gagner. Aviez-vous la même attitude à Verdun ? Hum, ou est-ce que ça changeait, vous savez ? YV : Non, je n'ai pas voté à Verdun. Je ne pense pas, je, je ne me souviens pas avoir voté à Verdun. KT : D'accord. YV : D'accord. Et je ne pense pas que ce soit parce que je n'ai pas voté. Je pense que c'est parce qu'il n'y avait pas d'élection. Je pense que c'est parce qu'il n'y a pas eu d'élections. KT : Intéressant. YV : Oui, je ne pense pas, d'accord, parce qu'ensuite j'ai déménagé KT : Oui. YV : A Richmond. KT : Oui. YV : Et c'est là que le vote a eu lieu. C'est là que le vote a eu lieu. Et c'est là que vous avez voté ? D'accord. Eh bien, il s'agissait en grande partie de politique. C'était en grande partie, euh, le français contre l'anglais. Il y avait beaucoup de choses qui se passaient à l'époque et c'est ce qui décidait de la façon dont vous alliez voter. KT : Intéressant. Les historiens ont affirmé que l'introduction de la pilule contraceptive, la légalisation de l'avortement et la diffusion de l'idéologie de l'amour libre ont modifié les relations entre les hommes et les femmes et les pratiques de drague. Êtes-vous d'accord avec cette affirmation ? YV : Probablement à un niveau philosophique. Je ne sais pas si c'est le cas à un niveau philosophique. KT : Pratiquement YV : Pratiquement, vous savez, KT : Oui YV : J'ai utilisé des pilules contraceptives, comme, vous savez, KT : Mhm. YV : tout le monde, vous savez, ce genre de choses. Et, et puis j'ai failli, j'ai cru que j'étais enceinte la troisième fois et ça n'allait pas. Mais c'est à ce moment-là que nous avons décidé que je ne pouvais pas. C'est un point intéressant. Je ne pouvais pas me faire ligaturer les trompes parce que je n'avais pas 30 ans. KT : Mhm. YV : et je n'avais pas trois enfants. Et le médecin me l'a dit catégoriquement. KT : Hm. YV : Alors quand je suis rentrée chez moi et que je l'ai dit à Paul, je lui ai dit que je ne pouvais pas me faire ligaturer les trompes ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. Il a dit, d'accord, alors il va subir une vasectomie. Et maintenant, les deux, les deux garçons ont subi une vasectomie. D'accord ? Deux enfants. Et c'était ça KT : Hm. YV : plus rien. D'accord ? KT : Intéressant. YV : Oui, c'était vraiment, vous savez, comme, je veux dire, je pense que c'était un vrai choc KT : Oui. YV : Pour moi, avoir un médecin. Dites-moi que je ne pouvais pas décider qu'il y avait un autocrate quelque part dans le département de la santé qui disait que je ne pouvais pas faire ça ? KT : Wow. YV : Oui. KT : Hum, vous avez dit que les rendez-vous étaient beaucoup plus formels. YV : Mhm. KT : Euh, est-ce que c'était la même chose à l'université ? Quand vous êtes allée à Richmond, étiez-vous déjà avec YV : Paul KT : Paul ? YV : Oui KT : D'accord. Alors où, où l'avez-vous rencontré ? YV : à mon baccalauréat en éducation à Saint Joe's ? KT : D'accord. Il avait suivi un programme de quatre ans à Saint Mary's, à Halifax. KT : Mhm. YV : Et il ne savait pas ce qu'il allait faire après. Il a donc suivi le programme d'éducation. Entre-temps, il a décidé d'aller à Oxford ou à Cambridge et d'y faire une année d'études. KT : Mhm. YV : Et il a demandé à son professeur de Saint Mary's de contacter Cambridge ou, ou ce que vous faites, c'est que vous postulez et l'un d'entre eux vous prendra, pas les deux. C'est un peu comme le système des CEGEP, KT : Oui YV : vous savez, au Québec KT : Oui. YV : Vous envoyez le formulaire et ils vous disent ce qu'ils veulent. D'accord. Eh bien, c'est la même chose. Il a donc été accepté à Oxford. KT : Wow. YV : Après avoir obtenu notre diplôme, je suis allée travailler et il est allé à Oxford pendant un an pour étudier l'anthropologie. Il a fait de l'anthropologie. KT : C'est intéressant. YV : Et puis, et puis quand il est revenu, on a tous les deux euh cherché des emplois et il avait une soeur qui, qui avait un ami qui était psychologue à la commission scolaire régionale des Cantons de l'Est à l'époque où ça s'appelait et ils ouvraient l'école secondaire régionale de Richmond et ils cherchaient des enseignants KT : Hm. YV : Nous avons donc posé notre candidature et nous avons obtenu le poste. J'ai obtenu un poste en sciences et il a obtenu un poste en histoire. KT : Wow. Hum, comment votre génération considérait-elle la famille et le mariage ? Était-ce une nécessité ? Hum, c'était comme, ou, ou, ou désolé. Est-ce que c'était comme si c'était juste ce que vous faisiez ? C'est juste ce que vous alliez faire. YV : C'est ce que vous avez fait. Oui, à l'époque. Bien que, euh, j'avais beaucoup de gens à l'école qui ne s'étaient pas mariés mais qui vivaient ensemble. KT : Mhm. YV : D'accord. Je me souviens d'une secrétaire qui m'a dit un jour, sans crier gare, que je n'avais pas d'enfants, Yvette, et je l'ai regardée et j'ai dit : " Je m'en fous ". KT : [rires] YV : Que tu n'aies pas d'enfants, je pensais que ce n'était pas mon problème. KT : Oui. YV : Eh bien, tout le monde pense que je devrais en avoir. Eh bien, si vous n'en voulez pas, s'il vous plaît, n'en ayez pas, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez ? KT : Oui. YV : Oh, ça ne vous dérange pas ? pourquoi diable ne le ferais-je pas ? Je n'arrivais pas à m'en remettre parce que c'était une femme à l'esprit fort. KT : Mhm. YV : De toute évidence, sa famille l'avait poussée à avoir des enfants et elle n'en voulait pas. KT : Mhm. YV : Je pense donc que les attentes ont commencé par suivre la même vieille règle, vous savez, vous vous mariez, vous avez des enfants, vous bla bla bla, et puis je pense que cela a lentement commencé à se relâcher. Les gens vivaient ensemble et avaient des enfants, mais ne se mariaient pas. KT : Mhm. YV : Ou ils vivaient ensemble, mais n'avaient pas d'enfants. D'accord. Hum, l'autre chose, c'est que dans l'enseignement, vous rencontrez tellement de mauvaises situations que cela, vous savez, vous ouvre les yeux sur beaucoup de situations différentes qui, vous savez, vous font vraiment remettre en question certaines des choses que vous pourriez décider de faire, vous savez. KT : Oui. YV : Euh, oui. KT : Hum, pour en venir à la sexualité et au harcèlement. YV : Hm. KT : Donc, comme je l'ai dit, si vous ne vous sentez pas à l'aise pour répondre à l'une ou l'autre de ces questions, vous n'avez qu'à le faire, YV : Je ne me souviens pas d'avoir été impliqué dans quelque chose de ce genre que j'appellerais. KT : Oui. YV : D'accord. KT : Hum, YV : Patriarcale. Oui. D'ACCORD. Dans le sens où je suis le patron et que c'est toujours un homme... KT : Oui. YV : et c'est ce que vous allez faire, mais je ne dirais pas que c'est du harcèlement sexuel. Je n'ai pas eu droit à ce genre de choses, même au restaurant. Je n'ai jamais eu ça KT : intéressant. Aujourd'hui, on fait beaucoup pour lutter contre le harcèlement sexuel. Il n'y avait rien de tout cela à l'époque ? YV : Pas que je sache. KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, je veux dire, je n'ai jamais rencontré la police pour, pour quoi que ce soit, vous savez, comme s'ils étaient là ou pas là, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, KT : Hum, YV : Ils étaient les gentils de toute façon, nous étions tous, vous savez, la police était gentille. Les pompiers étaient de bons gars. Les ambulanciers étaient de bons gars. Vous savez, vous n'aviez pas à remettre tout en question, KT : Oui YV : Vous savez, vous n'aviez pas, ce n'était pas, vous savez, KT : Donc ça a changé. YV : Oui. Tu sais, n'importe qui, comme, comme, tu sais, Jason a eu un très mauvais accident, euh, quand il était dehors avec ses amis, KT : Mhm. YV : Vous savez, et les amis ne savaient pas quoi faire. Alors ils ont arrêté une voiture sur l'autoroute et ils l'ont mis dans la voiture et, et ils nous ont téléphoné et nous ont dit que le gars l'avait conduit à l'hôpital. Savez-vous de quel hôpital il s'agit ? Non. KT : [rires] YV : Paul et moi avons failli Bref, nous l'avons trouvé KT : Oui. YV : à l'hôpital et quelqu'un l'avait déposé à l'hôpital. Et nous n'avons aucune idée de l'identité de ce brave homme. Et nous n'avons aucune idée de l'identité de ce bon samaritain, KT : Oui. YV : mais il avait 12 ans. C'était donc en 86. Je vous le dis, toutes les mauvaises idées nous sont passées par la tête KT : Ouais YV : jusqu'à ce qu'on le trouve, KT : Oui. YV : Vous savez, et, et ils étaient, vous savez, vous voyez, les enfants allaient parfaitement bien parce qu'ils faisaient confiance à cet adulte dans la voiture. KT : Oui YV : et vous, vous savez, comme nous, nous n'avons jamais rien dit de mal. Nous n'avons jamais, vous savez, passé un mauvais quart d'heure ou quoi que ce soit de ce genre. On a juste croisé les doigts, vous savez, et KT : C'est, euh, très différent d'aujourd'hui. YV : Oui. KT : Euh, je ne pense pas, je pense que nous manquons de temps. Oui, nous n'avons pratiquement plus de temps. Donc, euh, ok, merci. Et Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Voisard, Yvette (interview) Description An account of the resource Oral history about Mrs. Voisard's university experience in the mid 1960s, as well as her teaching experience in the 1970s. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-25 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MPEG-4 Audio (.m4a), 58 minutes, 16 seconds Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history 1960s 1970s Bachelor of Education Bachelor of Science Bilingualism Campus Life Dating Drugs Feminism Gender Marianopolis College Marriage Popular Music Protest Race Richmond, Quebec Social life Sports Verdun, Quebec Vietnam Vietnam War Person An individual. Birth Date 1949 Birthplace Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Schools Attended University of Ottawa, 1970-1974 Degree BA Career administrative Ethnicity French Religious Culture chose not to respond Devotional Life chose not to respond Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource M, P.