1 10 55 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Boogaart, Thomas Jr Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Boogaart, Thomas Sr Location The location of the interview Holland, Michigan, United States (via Zoom) Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) Leave blank Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Tom JR: “OK so uh the date is July 17, 2023. The time is 11 25. This is an oral interview with Tom Boogaart senior. The interviewer is Tom Boogaart Jr and the topic is life on campus.” Tom JR: “Now, Tom you went to Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. What years were you at Calvin College? Tom SR: “ I was uh there from 1968 to 1972.” Tom JR; “OK, so those were the years kind of the tail end and also the high point of the Vietnam War. Now every University was a little bit different in terms of the anti-war movement. Do you have any memories about how that played out on Calvin's campus?” Tom SR: “I have a few memories. (2:00) I think that generally, Calvin's campus was fairly quiet at least in my first year in 1968. There was some student activism. There's two memories that I have are pretty clear from that year from 1968, and one was that I commuted so I lived in town and then drove to campus every morning- and one morning- and I don't know it must have been in the spring,- maybe of 1969, there was a science building that had a about a six story brick face with no windows in it that kind of faced the main Highway, and somebody that night- in huge letters covering six stories- had END the war. Each one three letters E-N-D was in the top two stories, and “the” in the second two stories, and “War” was on the third, and now how they did it and who did it? Obviously I knew nothing about it, but, obviously, there was a group of students who had been active and who were protesting. So then I parked the car, took a class, and then at about 11 o'clock there was a huge canvas hanging over to hide the sign. And then the next day they hired people with these steam cleaners and they were they were steaming it (paint) off the bricks the next day, and it made the whole thing pretty effective; and that got the whole campus a buzz, of course, so why? What was the college worried about that? Why did they have to hide the message? Why did they have to? Now think of the symbolism. You hide the message, you have to try to erase it as if it never happened, and so that that got everybody, in other words; their attempt to kind of suppress the message got the message out even more. Even more so “End the War,” it had a very short shelf life, “end the war” it maybe lasted about two or three hours, so that was one memory and um the other memory I have is the conversation about the war {that} came up in a history class that I was taking. And this must, well, I'm confused whether it was the first or second year; either 68 or 69. And um the professor, Ron Wells, was his name, was very active and very vocal about his opposition to the war, and he was telling the class that that weekend he had gone with a friend to a pub where there were singers and they were singing you know pop songs; rock and roll songs; and when they got done they asked the audience with did you have any requests? And he {Wells} said so I raised my hand and he said to the singer why don't you sing a song of social significance, and, uh, the singer was just befuddled. And then he was telling the story as an example of how life is just kind of going on and nobody's paying attention, but when you ask a question like that; sing a song of social significance, all of a sudden the singer didn't know what to sing or what to say, and it isn't like there weren't some songs; that I mean we had all kinds of songs of social significance- Bob Dylan being- you know- the main one that we all knew, and I don't remember after that what happened but I do remember that. Tom Jr: “That it came up in the classroom.” TOM Sr: “It came up in the class and the other thing that came up in the class that again; like you said; you know this is years ago, and my memory's uncertain a little bit- I mean certain things; I know I remember certain things; I just don't remember in what context exactly but the um we um in one of our classes they talked about the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and that it was fake and they were seeking some justification for the war, and so they they created it, and we as students- I remember I didn't disbelieve it- what we were hearing because; you know; it was a history class and we were going over and looking at the stuff, but I remember being somewhat surprised by it, because I had been raised basically to think that Authority was benign, or it was well-meaning generally. I mean there was possibly a pressure, and I didn't figure this out until years later; my dad was in the Coast Guard during the war {World War II}, and so he wasn't on the frontlines, or anything, but he was protecting boats from German subs, which is dangerous enough in itself, of course, and then- um- Eisenhower was the main General of D-Day. It was a really big thing, and Eisenhower was a respected rational; compassionate leader, and then he became President immediately after in those post-war years, and my dad; because of Eisenhower I think, basically trusted government, and basically thought everybody was a version of Eisenhower, and so when trouble started with Nixon in those years, and we were also studying uh the fact that we weren't getting the data- the right data from the government, so we in class were; it wasn't radicalized or anything- but we were being exposed; we were being asked to be critical, I mean, that was the good thing about Calvin College; now at University is that they wanted us to critically engage the world, I mean just don't accept everything you hear, it might be true, but probe it to see what's there, and don't be afraid to- you know- look at evidence that's being suppressed, and things like that. So we were we being engaged to be critical, and, of course, all of a sudden, with the Gulf of Tonkin, with the inflated message {that} we're winning the war basically, all we need is a few more men, a little more equipment, that was escalating; and we knew that wasn’t true, and I was still living at home at the time. It created real trouble at Sunday meals because my dad would hear nothing of it, and then we were suspicious that not only had Johnson lied to us, but that Nixon was lying to us, and my dad just wouldn't hear it. When I look back, I realized that he was very slow, given his experience to trust government, and when I look back, it's largely because of his- Eisenhower, in fact, he had all these buttons he kept from Eisenhower's campaigns. We like Ike, I remember, that little button that even he even gave us those little buttons that we had in our bedroom for a while; “We like Ike,” and so and so, he wouldn't hear it, and he was stubborn, and it created-yeah it created real tension- around the table, and that, and then I wasn't alone in that. Pete- you know Pete is my brother who's a year older he's getting the same education at Calvin that I'm getting, and is not buying into it either, and so, anyway. Tom Jr; “It was the Counter Culture Revolution and a generational struggle between the Boomers and you know their kids. So what you're describing seems to fit that mold a little bit that there was a divide between you and your siblings and your parents. Was this true in other households as well or was this particular to your household?” Tom Sr: “No, no, I think that was generally true, but my parents had a high view of Education. They were not unhappy with our education. In fact, they were really happy. I mean, my dad was a graduate of Calvin, and he taught in a Christian school. So we were really embedded in that system, and it wasn't like he was questioning some of the things that there were. Yeah, they're just so it's there's a conflict there for him, and I kind of wondered how he ever resolved it because he really did believe in education. He wanted us to be, so in one sense he wanted us to be critical, but he was not gonna; he just would not accept-specially when it came to a head over Nixon, and then later Watergate came up, and things like that are you saying then that from your perception he believed that your anti-war views were something that came from leaving the home, and being exposed to this at Calvin, yeah, and I think it's something that he valued. I don't think he wanted- he did not want us to be uneducated, and he understood- I think- that education meant critical reflection, but when it came down to that, it's in the abstract, but when it came down to the concrete, what about Richard Nixon, all of a sudden he would not budge on that. I don't think he ever budged on it. I think even though knowing everything in 72, he voted for Nixon, where and I don't think my mother did, but she never said, she was closed-lipped about that. Tom Jr: “So you went to Calvin in 68. I guess that would be September and uh what you seem to be alluding to is in 1968 before you went to Calvin College. You didn't have a sense that the Vietnam War was incorrect driven by lies and misinformation; that was something of an appreciation that you acquired by going to campus and talking to other people there?” Tom Sr: “Yeah I think so. If- again my memory's a little vague- but High School in this system did not invite us to be critical. High school was we're right about everything -you know-you’re being inculcated in some fundamental Christian values, and I remember when Martin Luther King was assassinated; I was sitting in a another history class in high school, and I think what they did; they were worried I think- they suspended school that day, and then sent us home- if I remember correctly. But there was never any discussion about that, and we didn't talk about the Civil Rights Movement much, but we were aware of it. Then, of course, when he's assassinated, I remember my memory is that I had seen enough of racism that I never doubted that some of these fundamental institutions were racist in our country, and that the African-Americans had reasons- I think- I was sympathetic to it, but we never talked about it. It wasn't analyzed. What we weren't invited to be critical about, I think it was largely ignored, was the Vietnam War- was almost largely ignored in high schools. I remember it, I just don't remember any class where that ever came up. So college for us was a real shocker in a way, and college that Calvin College (University now), had a very different ethos than the ethos of that high school, so there was a pretty radical break for people like me who have been nurtured through that system for all those years Tom Jr, but I believe that many people in the in the Christian schools that you went to in East Grand Rapids actually went to Calvin, so you were still in in a cohort that was very similar to you. Tom Sr: “Oh yeah, I would think that at those years all of the Calvin students streamed from the various Christian high schools around the country. And, of course, Grand Rapids was a main Center, and was the big feeder of students to Calvin. All, virtually half the ones who went on to college, probably half of my {High School} graduating class went to Calvin, so I was in class again in college with people I've been in class with in high school, and, of course, a lot of new people too, coming from- you know- some schools out from the state of Washington. A lot of Iowa students were coming at that time, and a lot of Canadian students were coming. Tom Jr: “So what you're saying is the college experience was really important in terms of shaping your views?” Tom Sr. “Yeah looking on politics; looking back, there was a required course at the time called hristian perspectives on learning, cpol, that we have our first year, and that course was designed to help us understand culture itself, and how cults are formed and shaped. Again it wasn't explicitly ideological. It wasn't anti-war. It wasn't taking a position on the war. It wasn't taking position on the Civil Rights Movement, but it was inviting us to the whole idea of a kind of critical engagement with your world, and that you had to develop a Christian world and lifeview, but you had to do it critically. You couldn't just absorb everything that was happening around you. In fact, they had a class, they had a speaker. They played a Richard De Vos, it was just starting to take off with Amway, and he was a huge donor to Calvin, even in those early years, when I was there. They gave a speech that he had given to the Chamber of Commerce or something, and the speech was America's the greatest country in the world because we have 90 percent of the world's refrigerators, we have 65 percent of the world's washing machines, we have you know blah blah blah, and then we broke up into our small groups. There were like 300 new students there, or more than that. There must have been like 500 students. We'd break up into groups of 15, led by a professor, and they just started critiquing that does that. What makes you great; is that really what you want? I think- and I remember thinking- it's ridiculous! What was this? What's this guy saying? What about Christian values? What about you know, so they were so- we were being (indecipherable), and then they dropped that lecture, because DeVos heard about it, and he threatened to take the money away, so my class got that, or maybe some classes before me, but as soon as the boss heard about it, they didn't really give us that lecture anymore. They got it that the same idea in other ways, but they did use him as a foil. Tom Jr: “ It seems interesting because she had that story earlier about the anti-war message that had had to be covered up, and how quickly that was covered up, and you know this was a conservative School treatments, but also teaching critical thought. Tom Jr: “Was there any tension in the University between the professors and the administration and the donors, or is there something larger going on in society that just kind of it was absorbed in Calvin's campus, so that the students and the faculty were starting to question was a larger movement you think?” Tom Sr: “Well I I think it was a larger movement in a way, because Calvin wasn't our only life. We were- you know- I was working at Hendricks at the time, a sheet metal company, I worked on a paint crew one summer. We were in a larger world, and we watched the news at night and things like that. And so we were aware of the Civil Rights, and what fascinated me most now that you're asking me about it- I'd forgotten about this- it was also the beginning of the environment; a raising of environmental awareness, Rachel Carson. We read Silent Spring in that CPO class as I remember. That was my first exposure to environmental degradation; the way that the economic system was just spoiling the environment, and so the one movement that I was somewhat involved in college was the environmental movement. I wasn't actively involved in the anti-war movement, or in the Civil Rights Movement, but I was involved in the environmental movement. Well when you thought about the environmental movement, and something needed to be done. Tom Jr: “Who did you see as the cause for these environmental problems? Was it the system itself? Was it greedy corporations? Was it rich people? Who was causing these environmental problems? What was the threat to your generation? Would you believe that you could change the world?” Tom Sr: “I think it focused largely on industry. I think I remember the DDT thing was- I mean- so the bald eagle was threatened with extinction, and the information came out that the DDT weakened their eggs, and they weren't having their little eaglets. You know growing up, and things like that, and then Dupont, of course, I think it was Dupont was the biggest seller of DDT, and we also knew that Agent Orange was degrading the environment of Vietnam; that was very clear, and so we saw the bad boys as greedy industry. I don't know if we- I don't think at that point- I was mature enough to see that I was greedy; that I was participating and I wanted all the goods of the that the modern economy was offering, but I didn't see my desire for the goods and services as part of the greedy system. I think that we focused largely on greedy CEOs, greedy corporations and you know that's partly true, but, of course, that's a system, and everybody's in the system, and that was that didn't come until that, that didn't come until I don't think I was old, or mature enough, so when you start thinking about these things, you start at- you know- kind of growing awareness class 101. And then graduate, you go to second year 201, and then eventually you get to 401 and you slowly begin to see the problem more deeply, or more clearly, but that wasn't I don't think at that stage, I didn't see myself so much as a participant. I saw myself as a somehow strangely outside of it. Tom Jr: “You mentioned Dupont; their slogan was Better Living Through Chemistry right? You would unlock the science; you'd make better products and it would make life easier, but you were talking about these pollutants, killing the bald eagle. So in your environmental activism these greedy corporations what you want to do so that they won't be hurting the environment? I mean what was your activism focused on doing? Tom Sr: “It was focused on legislation. We were- we wanted to create enough buzz around these issues that you would force Congress then to pass protections for- I think that there were some clean water, there were some major I think around 1970, there were some major legislation passed about clean water and the Endangered Species Act. I don't know if it was called that exactly, it was, yeah it was in those years, or very close to those years that we were, that was all, it took a while to get that but we were agitating, or I as I remember it for those bills to be passed, so we were largely thinking democratically using the system; making corrections, forcing, so reforming capitalism essentially. Tom Jr “ You didn't think about in those terms, but you were going to use government to make the corporations be more responsible right? Tom Sr: “yeah I think that's right. I think that's kind of Tom Jr: “When you were you were mobilizing through the democratic system; how were you doing that? You were having meetings, you were writing Congress people? How were you making change happen?” Tom Sr.: “ Well, it was largely. . . how did we make change happen? Yeah, that's a good question, because I remember one night we were, yeah it was it was scattered, it was a little Helter Skelter, those of us- I don't even know that we were even organized into a group- but um a group of us got together one night and said well how can we make Calvin more aware of the environmental problems? And this must have been like in 69, no it must have been um maybe yeah again like you said I don't I don't know the years now. They had a Commons bookstore Café, kind of area and they every morning when I would come to school early I would see there'd be a lot of black smoke coming out of the main chimney, and they were burning whatever refuse they weren't recycling; they were burning it, and the black smoke would just be. They wouldn't do it during the day, they would do it early in the morning, so no one could see it, so then our group got together. We said to others, yeah, you see that? Yeah, they all saw that. So then- I remember this- I worked at a sheet metal shop at the time, so I would make the different parts for you know anything that goes from your furnace to your register, all the metal work that gets the air, hot air ducts, and pipe, and elbows, and things like that, so um I there was a low, it was a low wind, there was a low ceiling, there was a place where you could climb up, and then come up on the roof. So one night I climbed up on the roof of that Commons and I took a measurement of that chimney, and I was going to make a metal box, and I was gonna drop it over the top of the chimney, so that when they tried to burn, it would, of course, it wouldn't release. And it was as a protest, well that I have that memory, so I remember going up. I remember getting the measurements, but I think that someone in the group at that point said you know um you don't want anyone to get hurt because of this, and you don't want to start a fire do you? This could go wrong; this is not such a good idea exactly- something like that. So, we ended up not doing it, but it shows you that we were aware, we were Helter Skelter. We had a few little plants, but we weren't going . . . . Tom Jr: “I have to stop you there a minute because historians have argued that there's a link between the Civil Rights Movement which was largely black students and activists during the 50s and early 60s and the subsequent counterculture Revolution that became more mainstream. It went to White campuses, but one of their techniques was activism and confronting injustice. So, Martin Luther King jr. would propose this and they'd have sit-ins and so your idea, which came spontaneously, you know, it's essentially a type of terrorism or vandalism; it's not something you would normally do. Was this an idea that was inspired, you think by the environment?” Tom Sr: “It was anger, yeah, that people were irresponsible; this was unnecessary. You didn't have to do this. There are other ways to do all of this. It's been Tom Jr: “Your action was for justice?” Tom Sr. “What you're doing is I would I think so yeah it wasn't it wasn't too in this case it was Justice for the environment I mean but partly you know we're part of the environment, it was Justice for us too, and, yeah, we felt I guess we felt- was Tom JR: “That incinerator in a way {was} a symbol of the establishment, the system that was not responding to justice that needed to be sent a message. How did you how did you view it did you see Calvin's authorities as connected somehow to decision makers, the corporations, the government?” Tom Sr: “Well, I think so I think that's I think it was a microcosm it is in a way I mean you know it's just a small you know go down to Gary, Indiana at the time, our Aaron, when I was that age, we breathed the worst air in the United States, because we were downwind from Gary Indiana. We thought we learned about those things too; air quality was a huge issue that we talked about, so we felt personally we had a personal stake in it, but it wasn’t really consciousness like you said. It wasn't, it wasn't wanting to hurt anybody, but to find almost like King did- find non-violent ways to protest, and then raise awareness, and so we thought- gosh- you know- think you know like that in the war thing, how effective that was. We thought well, we'll put that little lid on that thing.” Tom Jr. “And this is why you didn't act, because you, someone in your group said this kind of goes across the boundary to potentially being a violent act, that could cause harm right? Someone could get hurt, or maybe it starts a fire, or you know?” Tom Sr: “I don't know and then we kind of backed off on it, it didn't, you know, someone did propose rather than well I don't know something like don't close it off, leave a little opening you know, but we in the end, we didn't do it. We didn't do it so Tom Jr: “You talked earlier about the Martin Luther King assassination. This wasn't a major event. I mean this period for historians is interesting, because it's really at the turning between you know the height of the anti-war movement the transition to the 70s when there's a lot of you know liberal legislation to protect environment and everything else, you said that they closed down your high school and sent you home. Do you remember why they closed your school down? What were they afraid of? Tom Sr. “No, I think I'm accurate with that memory, but again you have to this is oral history right yeah you'd have to double check, but I they were um we had had um we had had riots in Detroit before this as I remember, so we were aware of that I guess. We were aware of that, too, I think they were afraid because we- our high school- was located in the quote “black neighborhood” of town. It was the corner of Madison and Fulton, or no full Fuller, no Franklin Madison and Franklin's no wait, not Franklin gosh, yeah isn't that funny I can't remember Madison and something, but anyway we were you know, just a few blocks from South High, which was an all-black high school, pretty much all-black high school, and I think they were afraid of riots; that's what I think. No one said that or anything. . .” Tom Jr: “Because you were talking earlier that- you know- about the Civil Rights Movement had a kind of a hard time making sense of it, but I think to what extent did you see racial injustice in in the community that you live in, like how many African or black students were there in your Christian High School?” Tom Sr: “Um, I don't think there was a single one. If I'm thinking about it now, later when adoption agencies started to be more active, there would be more families within our white largely Dutch communities that would be adapting Asian children, and maybe African children. I don't, so their Church Tom Jr: “Did you have any African or black African-Americans in Church?” Tom Sr: “No, not a single one. In fact, you know, because I you know I wrote about this when my dad died, and Phil is my younger, for those who are going to be reading this e found the original deed to my boyhood home that was they built. My parents built my house when I was born in 1950, and they lived there you know like 55 years before, maybe 60 years, before they went to a retirement home. The original deed was Caucasians only. That the new neighborhoods in the post-world War II were segregated and so I was guaranteed to grow up in a neighborhood that would not have any African-Americans in fact there was a provision that you could have black um people serving you in your home as domestic servants so there's a clause about that but there was something about they couldn't live there or something like that I don't know.” Tom Jr: “So Caucasians really means white, so it means not just Asians in America, but Hispanic s Asians too would be excluded from your neighborhood.” Tom Sr: “It just said Caucasians only and I think it was directed at black African-Americans and so um, yeah, I was guaranteed not to have any contact. There was not in our churches, not in our schools. In fact when I was a wrestler in high school, I've written about this too, uh, we, the first time we had to wrestle South High, I was in 10th Grade- must have been, yeah- I don't know my 1968 or no, no, 65 or something like that, also and I realized that I was gonna most likely be wrestling an African-American young man, and I was just I was I couldn't even think about the match, all I could think about he's going to be African-American. I'm gonna have to wrestle in African-American, and think of the symbolism here, we had never been in contact before, ever even touched before, and now we're gonna wrestle. Tom Jr: “ Talk about touch. Did they make you afraid or uncomfortable, or it is strange?” Tom Sr: “It just it just was a violation of the structures of my world. It made me, I don't, I wouldn't say afraid, but I was just I was confused basically, I didn't know what to make of it, and then I thought- I kind of thought to myself what in the heck, what do you, why are you going on about this this- you know- like you know, so my mind was just churning. Journey churning, and then the interest and here's the fascinating thing Tom is that so I'm all nervous, and sure enough you know, I don't know you've never gone to arresting me, but you all you line up by weights, and then before the meet starts the two wrestlers they stand on the side, and then weight by weight they go out, and they acknowledge each other. And I said, well, sure enough. I'm going to be wrestling a black guy, but then as soon as the match started, I was terribly nervous. I was kind of, I wouldn't even know what to do. He went in for a double Leg Takedown, which is a wrestling move, and I threw what we used to call a wizard to protect myself. Flat I pancaked, and threw a wizard, and as soon as we touched all of that anxiety was gone, and I thought, he's just a guy, like any other guy, like I don't know what the world you know- and so the rest of the wrestling match we're going back and forth. I'm not, I'm just wrestling a guy, and then I thought later years later, when I thought about that, the touch, that my society was so afraid of, was the very touch that I needed to overcome my fear. Isn't that ironic? It was, it was literally the touch that made you nervous because wrestling is very- I mean, yeah I think, yeah there's. Tom Jr.: “You've been so segregated your entire life.” Tom Sr. “Absolutely,” Tom Jr. “So this was really first Contact.” Tom Sr: “First Contact, first ever in my life, yeah, some of the race structures at least innocently by watching television and the Civil Rights well you could see there was Injustice, yeah, but it was still something else to be confronted right in this way, so we had no social interactions with African Americans before, nothing but my mother, and she had no interactions either, but my mother was very compassionate. She made it clear to us that every person was a person, and so we grew up in a home, I mean so it's ironic because all the social structures are racist, in a sense. . .” Tom Jr: “There’s institutionalized separation of peoples.” Tom Sr: “Call that whatever you want, but that's not the way, at least we were talking about our values as a family, and so that laid the groundwork, when I later would you know come to greater consciousness of what's going on, I had already my Mom had laid the ground, more than my dad- I think- my Mom had laid the groundwork, that every person was a person. Tom Jr: “ What would it happen if you had an African-American girlfriend. Would that have changed her view? Would she have accepted that? Would your father have accepted that or not?” Tom Sr: “Um, yeah I have no idea. I mean it wasn't. . .” Tom Jr: “Do you remember any interracial couples when you were growing up in high school or college?” Tom Sr: “Oh no, that was just that was a line that was simply not crossed. Yeah, no, no,” Tom Jr: “go ahead” Tom Sr: “No, no, never, not that I know, not that I could, certainly not a church not at school, um, no I don't think so.” Tom Jr: “What about other White ethnic groups like Poles or Roman Catholics with those other were those also completely?” Tom Sr: “Well interestingly in the neighborhood that I grew up in was a kind of Levittown neighborhood, a little tiny Levittown house, many tiny rooms, yeah so, that our tiny little house had four bedrooms, but you could hardly put a bed in the bedroom, the person across the street was Paul, the neighbor on the -what side would that be?- on the West Side, I guess, was Polish, and the family across the street was Jewish, and so we were we were with the Polish a lot of us were, but we weren't in an exclusive. . . There were other neighborhoods that were exclusively Dutch, we were in a quote- mixed neighborhood, and the uh, my mom was very good friends.” Tom Jr: “it was white.” Tom Sr: “It was definitely white. My mom was good friends with a Jewish couple across the street, and we did not go there, there was an anti polish, they were catholic and there was quite a barrier there, we did not interact with them. I mean we, my mom, was civil, they engaged each other as Neighbors, and he drank beer, he would sit on his porch at night and drink beer, and, uh and then after he'd had a few beers, he'd start singing songs, and we were all we were all a little suspicious that that was immoral. We weren't you know.” Tom Jr: “Those Catholics, you know, they don't have the same standards that we have?” Tom Sr: “Well no one said that, but that was kind of that was kind of what we were. Tom Jr: “still the idea of the Reformation going on?” Tom Sr: “Yeah, oh absolutely yeah that's that kind of anti-Catholic, in a way, you didn't associate, so anyway, so it was it was in that sense white index, which was unusual because a lot of my friends at school only lived in neighborhoods that were also entirely Dutch.” Tom Jr: “ It kind of reached the end of the hour, but I wanted to go back on a couple things you talked earlier about. You know there's an emerging conflict with your father about the war and politics, and your criticism of that I was wondering if that carried over to the environment as well, or if you're your father and your mother also felt that corporations had gone too far, and they needed to be reformed, to protect human health, air quality, protect our natural spaces, etc?” Tom Sr: “Well, I think, and I don't remember talking about it. Of course, my Dad, I never talked to my Dad about anything really. He was working all the time, yeah it the conflicts were largely political, and they were largely as I remember it- certainly around the war, but they weren't around the environment. My parents, when they were able, they didn't have a lot of money, but when they were able, and got a car that was good enough, we did extensive travel. And my parents loved nature. They loved getting out. We went to National Parks. We hiked, took thousands of slides of the Smoky Mountains, and the Tetons, and the Rockies, so I don't remember them saying anything explicit about it, but clearly nature had spiritual significance for them, I think. They wanted to share that with us, and we picked that up then when we were very young. So, I don't remember talking much about it, maybe the fact that I can't remember, we didn't fight about it. I think they probably agreed, they probably were sympathetic to that kind of thing. Tom Jr: “Just one last question. I didn't talk to you a lot about the hippies, and of course East Grand Rapids was not a big hippie Colony.” Tom Sr: “ East Grand Rapids, Tom is a separate town, so it's Grand Rapids. East Grand Rapids is where Jeremy lives now. Tom Jr: “Okay, so it's Grand Rapids, but the subculture influenced the wider culture in various ways like popular music, you know, Neil Young and John Lennon. Also the hippie uniform, so people were wearing clothes that were comfortable, they were not wearing the Brooks Brothers shirt, they were you know this was kind of a way of protesting the establishment in terms of your sartorial choices. Did you in any way adopt these types of fashions, consciously or unconsciously?” Tom Sr: “That's funny that you bring that up, because it I would have I wouldn't have thought of this, but, hair, was a big deal for my dad. And my dad was always at a buzz cut, a kind of a military buzz cut, and he would always cut our hair. And what he'd do is just take the thing, just shave you, so you had like a maybe an eighth of an inch left when he was done, all over your head. And then it would grow out. And then he'd shave it again. And he did that to save money. There's no way to know, I never sat in the seat of a barber, we would not pay, and probably couldn't afford to pay a barber, so he cut our hair, but then I started dating your Mom, Judy, in high school. And Judy hated that she didn't like that short hair. And so, grow it out, grow it out. And my dad did not like that. No, I finally, you know you're old enough, and you're dating, and you're like now a senior in high school. He can't. He's got no control over what you're going to do with your hair or anything like that. He did not. It's funny how that hippie culture for some came down to, I think for my dad it came down to hair. And if he saw that long hair, you know hanging all over, or covering your ears, he reacted to that. He didn't like it. Tom Jr: “ He took that as a rejection of him as a father, of the establishment, of his values?” Tom Sr: “What he tried to instill, I think, it was a symbol of loss of control, I mean that people who did that, didn't have restraint. So, I think he thought, well, you have to restrain yourself. You have to be disciplined. That, that's all, just seen that's just- you know- that's free love. You know if you can't control your hair, how are you going to control your sexual relationships? Tom Jr: “ So this was that kind of like what we call a gateway drug, if you begin with a longer hair, you're on the path to damnation, that you'd go into other things like you know maybe something?/” Tom Sr: “Like, yeah, you were being sucked into that uh Freedom closer yeah, yeah, the kind of hidden it he saw it as hedonistic. I think rather than it being disciplined. Tom Jr: “ And hedonistic would mean then anti-Christian values?” Tom Sr: “Yeah pleasure seeking, just you know you you're just life isn't to be you know actually life's not about pleasure, life's about work; that was my dad's view. Tom Jr: “What did you take from that kind of Calvinistic idea, like when you were growing your hair long, did you view this as Hedonism, rejecting the bad, or were just growing out your hair? I mean did you look at hippies, and also look down on them, that this was hedonistic?” Tom Sr: “No, no, no, I didn't I didn't think anything of it. I thought some of the outfits were ugly. I thought I'm not going to wear that, but it wasn't because I was opposed to it, or anything. I grew mine in now, when I went in the Seminary, my hair, I grew my hair pretty long.” Tom Jr: “And your dad's criticism was ridiculous then, you just didn't take that seriously? You saw that that as being kind of a limited immature?” Tom Sr: “Yeah, I mean I just um, that was just him. And I thought, yeah, I thought, and said I thought it was in a sense, that's ridiculous. So I said to him, even as a young boy, oh Dad, don't cut my hair. And he said, I have to. Your hair's is too thin. So he'd give me these awful excuses about it so I grew up thinking, oh I've always got to have short hair, because my hair is too thin, because that's what my dad told me. So I mean, he had a stake in that. I think with his friends, when he wanted his friends to see us as his boys, that that he was trying to send a message by that, to his world. You know, I don't know, but hair was a big deal. Tom Jr: “Did it include then shaving, or did you grow your hair long or not shave or was that any way a part of it?” Tom Sr: “Yeah, I would have included that, but you know sideburns, I didn't like sideburns. I think, yeah, I didn't , now my brother Pete, he always shaved in high school. I didn't shave until I hit later in college. I mean I had a little bit of facial hair, but not a lot until I kind of reached my mid-20s, really or early 20s, maybe, so shaving wasn't so much an issue, but yeah, it's interesting to say that now. you say, that as soon as I could, I had a mustache. My whole life, as soon as I could grow a mustache, I had one. That was also, actually, you're right, that was kind of a that was a little sign you know. Tom Jr: “That you're not going to be clean shaven, as the way he had taught you should be.” Tom Sr: “Um, yeah, yeah,” Tom Jr: “Well, we've gone a little bit over an hour. As there any other things you want to add, based on our conversation? We only kind of really scratched the surface. There's obviously a lot of things there?” Tom Sr: “Right, yeah, I was something I was gonna Flash. Now I forgot about I was going to tell you, but no, I think those are some of the memories. Tom Jr: “so I'm uh pausing the interview at 12 15.” Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Video recording (simple vocab) Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) Leave blank Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Leave blank Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Boogaart, Thomas Sr. (interview) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-07-17 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, 50 minutes, 06 seconds Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Relation A related resource <iframe width="100%" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8ckWFZGMYeE?si=b20xNciR9S3d_GUy" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe><br /><br /><span class="citationStyles_Gno2WRpf" aria-live="polite"><span class="citationStyles_Gno2WRpf" aria-live="polite">"</span></span>Boogaart, Thomas Sr, (interview) July 17, 2023<span id="formatted-citation-text" class="citationStyles_Gno2WRpf" aria-live="polite">." Life on Campus. July 17, 2023. Video, https://youtu.be/8ckWFZGMYeE?si=-_xLIxNPTgxBz-ZZ.</span> Description An account of the resource Testimonial about Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan during the 1970s, including the antiwar movement and the counterculture revolution. 1970s Antiwar Movement Calvin College Grand Rapids, Racism Vietnam War Person An individual. Birth Date 1950 Birthplace Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Occupation professor Biographical Text Lecturer, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen 1978-1981, 1984-1986 Replacement Professor, Central College 1981-1983, 1984-1986 Fellow, Exeter University, 1983-1984 Professor, Western Theological Seminary 1986-2019 Ethnicity Dutch Religious Culture Protestant Christian Devotional Life practicing Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Degree PhD MA BA Bibliography Leave blank Schools Attended Calvin College, 1968-1972 Western Theological Seminary, 1972-1975 Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, 1975-1981 Career education Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Boogaart, Thomas Type The nature or genre of the resource person Person An individual. Birth Date 1948 Birthplace Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Schools Attended Carleton University: ? - 1971 University of Ottawa, 1971 - 1974 Degree Professional degree BA Occupation Lawyer Author Religious Culture Orthodox Christian Devotional Life practicing Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tannis, Ernest Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource person Person An individual. Birth Date 1946 Birthplace Montreal, Quebec, Canada Schools Attended McGill University, 1963-1968 Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1968-1970 University of Ottawa, 1971-1974 Degree Professional degree MA BA Career professional Occupation Lawyer Ethnicity English Religious Culture Protestant Christian Reformed Judaism Devotional Life practicing Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Biographical Text Articling Student, Cassels 1974-1975 Student, Law Society of Upper Ontario 1975-1976 Lawyer, Barrigar & Oyen 1976-1980 Partner, Barrigar & Oyen 1980-1984 Associate Lawyer, Smart & Biggar 1984-1985, 1985-1986 Partner, Smart & Biggar 1986-2011 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource M., Jacob (Pseudonym) Type The nature or genre of the resource person Person An individual. Birth Date 1952 Birthplace Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Schools Attended University of British Columbia, 1970-1974 University of Ottawa, 1974-1976 Degree MA BA Career administrative Ethnicity English Irish Scottish Swedish Religious Culture Other Devotional Life agnostic Gender Identity woman Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource M., L. (pseudonym) Type The nature or genre of the resource person Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview El Hajj Hassan, Shaza Alain Paradis, Philippe Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Pierre-Paul, Brassard Location The location of the interview Teams Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Philippe Alain Paradis OK, let's start. 0:0:34.270 --> 0:0:34.730 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK. 0:0:39.740 --> 0:0:50.240 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Je dirai l'enquête principale, puis je poserai quelques questions. 0:0:51.100 --> 0:1:1.900 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et une culture de consommation axée sur l'automobile ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. Ottawa était une institution bilingue, et nous voulons mieux comprendre comment les anglophones et les francophones étaient liés les uns aux autres. 0:1:1.940 --> 0:1:3.980 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Il y avait moins d'appareil électronique dans la société canadienne des années 1970. Comment était structuré votre temps libre ou que faisaient les étudiants de l'Université d'Ottawa pour s'amuser dans les années 1970 ? 0:1:45.500 --> 0:1:46.430 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors qu'en 1970 je voulais parler à mon patron par le téléphone, je l'appelais. 0:3:15.364 --> 0:3:20.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y avait pas de répondeur téléphonique dans le temps, il y avait des secrétaires, la Secrétaire prenait le message. 0:3:21.734 --> 0:3:32.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh au département d'histoire par exemple, si on voulait parler à votre prof, Ben, il y avait quelqu'un qui prenait le message et qui lui envoyait un papier qui disait Ben rappelle un tel ou untel. 0:3:34.454 --> 0:3:52.424 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pour ce qui est des loisirs, c'était comme je l'ai dit, beaucoup plus simple, on suivait beaucoup le cinéma Ciné en France, entre autres, du cinéma américain aussi, les blockbusters l'expression n'existait pas à l'époque blockbuster, c'était les films en cinémascope et couleur. 0:3:54.294 --> 0:3:56.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était avant le IMAX. 0:3:56.594 --> 0:3:58.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard IMAX est arrivé dans les années. 0:4:0.174 --> 0:4:1.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard 90, je dirais. 0:4:3.834 --> 0:4:6.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais là cinémascope était là. 0:4:6.734 --> 0:4:14.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ben la grosse holà la défaite, c'était des écrans qui étaient plus larges, les couleurs étaient mieux définies. 0:4:14.764 --> 0:4:19.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le son était meilleur mais tout à l'époque, sans tomber dans les. 0:4:21.714 --> 0:4:23.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le détail technique, les les. 0:4:24.104 --> 0:4:26.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard La numérique n'existe pas. 0:4:26.874 --> 0:4:27.84 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc. 0:4:26.474 --> 0:4:29.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tout était enregistré en format analogique. 0:4:31.34 --> 0:4:33.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et les communications téléphoniques se faisaient où? 0:4:33.684 --> 0:4:36.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Télégraphiques par onde analogique OK. 0:4:36.694 --> 0:4:41.214 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc, donc ça pour le fun comme t'appelais tes amis, vous allez voir des films genre. 0:4:42.544 --> 0:4:42.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:4:44.534 --> 0:4:50.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard À l'époque de l'université, moi j'étais marié parce que j'avais pas pu faire ma maîtrise. 0:4:50.164 --> 0:4:51.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mon père était décédé. 0:4:51.164 --> 0:4:59.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'étais, j'avais 15 ans, on était 10 dans la famille, alors on allait tous au collège privé ou à l'université. 0:4:59.414 --> 0:5:9.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Quand il y a décédé, de sorte que j'ai fait un bac, fini le bac et surfaites le bac en pédagogie, j'ai commencé à travailler à Toronto pour apprendre l'anglais. 0:5:9.964 --> 0:5:22.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK je parle pas un mot d'anglais alors j'ai pris un job pour enseigner le français langue 2nde parce que les années 70 comme tu as mentionné tout à fait tout à l'heure, Sacha, c'était les années du bilinguisme. 0:5:22.44 --> 0:5:23.824 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pierre Trudeau était au pouvoir. 0:5:25.814 --> 0:5:41.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était à l'époque où on parlait de séparatisme au Québec, mais les francophones commencèrent à vouloir prendre plus de place dans le Canada et donc la réponse du Canada anglais. 0:5:43.484 --> 0:5:48.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard Qu'on appelait à l'époque le rock, le Rest of Canada, sign from Québec. 0:5:48.604 --> 0:5:54.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, la réponse du rock c'était Ah, on va se mettre à apprendre le français. 0:5:56.244 --> 0:6:9.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard Particulièrement à Ottawa, le gouvernement s'est bilinguisme, c'est à dire qu'il y a des centaines et des centaines de fonctionnaires de tous les niveaux de la hiérarchie qui ont commencé à apprendre la langue. 0:6:11.554 --> 0:6:19.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Comme dans tout changement majeur parce que c'est un changement majeur à l'époque pour l'Ontario, pour qu'il y avait une tradition. 0:6:21.74 --> 0:6:25.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah, c'est bien ancré de d'apprendre le français pour les gens très éduqués. 0:6:25.544 --> 0:6:43.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'ailleurs, à Toronto, à Ottawa, dans le reste du Canada, quand des jeunes faisaient un niveau universitaire de Bach et de maîtrise, il venait généralement faire un an, soit à Québec, l'université Laval ou à Montréal. 0:6:46.664 --> 0:6:56.714 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était un peu la même tradition du côté du Canada français et moi, j'ai été apprendre l'anglais parce que mon père nous disait très jeune, pour apprendre l'anglais dans la vie, pour pouvoir te pouvoir fonctionner. 0:6:56.954 --> 0:7:1.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors bien avant que le bilinguisme soit devenu une espèce de de de, de règles. 0:7:3.994 --> 0:7:14.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Vu de Montréal et vue de Québec même vue de d'Ottawa, il y a eu beaucoup de résistance, mais de façon passe. 0:7:14.124 --> 0:7:19.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oui, on on parlait jamais clairement que on voulait pas prendre de français. 0:7:19.274 --> 0:7:20.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Nous autres, on avait des expressions. 0:7:20.484 --> 0:7:22.534 Pierre-Paul Brassard Faites-vous en pas si vous avez le Français. 0:7:22.954 --> 0:7:26.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y a, comme je l'ai dit ça l'autre jour, il y a même des enfants de 3 ans. 0:7:26.94 --> 0:7:37.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tu parles français et les dents vont pas vous tomber parce que y en AY avait la résistance équivalente à celle du Québec qui ne veut pas apprendre l'anglais. 0:7:37.874 --> 0:7:42.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il y avait une assez grande résistance passive qui refusait carrément de le faire. 0:7:44.784 --> 0:7:48.344 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur le campus, il y avait tu des places comme populaires que vous? 0:7:48.354 --> 0:7:53.474 Philippe Alain Paradis Comme sur le campus de l'université d'Ottawa, y a des places populaires où ce que vous allez avec vos amis. 0:8:2.974 --> 0:8:3.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui. 0:7:55.274 --> 0:8:5.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moi, la vie universitaire que j'ai eue, c'était une, j'ai fait une maîtrise et on n'était pas sur le campus, c'était la faculté d'éducation à l'époque était sur Brown Street. 0:8:7.184 --> 0:8:8.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh. 0:8:9.284 --> 0:8:9.514 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui. 0:8:8.704 --> 0:8:9.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard En montant la côte. 0:8:9.604 --> 0:8:19.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard Là c'est une je sais pas si c'est encore là aujourd hui donc et j'ai fait la maîtrise ma par cours du soir et cours d'été. 0:8:21.724 --> 0:8:32.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors j'ai pas d'ailleurs quand j'ai terminé la maîtrise, mes profs fils doyen me dit brassard, tu devrais venir faire un doctorat chez nous, ayant je dis non merci. 0:8:33.154 --> 0:8:41.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un jeune avais un peu assez de d'étudier dans des avions, puis pendant mes vacances d'été et de Noël, parce que j'ai fait ma maîtrise le soir. 0:8:42.644 --> 0:8:46.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Soit séance 72 73. 0:8:46.534 --> 0:8:51.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'enseigne au collège algonquin le jour et je faisais mes cours. 0:8:51.904 --> 0:9:2.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard 45 crédits, 2 fois 3h pendant les les les, les soirées automne hiver, le, à mi-chemin en maîtrise. 0:9:2.274 --> 0:9:11.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je viens qu'on vient de crédit, là c'était quelque chose de ça prenait un an et demi à temps plein, à mi-chemin de la maîtrise, j'ai eu un offre d'emploi. 0:9:11.404 --> 0:9:27.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard TV Ontario à Toronto, à l'époque, ça s'appelait Ontario educational communication Theory qui est devenue TV à à et plus tard TFO, la télévision française de l'Ontario. Euh. 0:9:29.234 --> 0:9:37.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et mon patron me dit à l'époque, écoute, t'es à ton moi, j'ai dit, écoute, je veux finir ma maîtrise, donc il me faudra du temps. 0:9:37.794 --> 0:9:40.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard À un moment donné, soit pendant l'été, toute l'affaire. 0:9:41.274 --> 0:9:46.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il m'a répondu, Ah, écoute, on paye ta scolarité, tu t'en viens à l'université de Toronto. 0:9:48.294 --> 0:9:52.864 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc j'imagine t'as peut-être pas eu beaucoup de temps à ma sortir avec les cours de de soir puis tout. 0:9:53.104 --> 0:9:56.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ben non, on avait pas le temps de de de faire beaucoup de loisirs. 0:9:56.944 --> 0:10:4.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard À l'époque, on allait au cinéma Ben, lorsque je venais l'été pour compléter la 2e partie de la maîtrise. 0:10:4.764 --> 0:10:12.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors, étant à Toronto, j'avais 3 semaines de vacances par année et mon test montario me donnait les 3 autres semaines. 0:10:13.834 --> 0:10:20.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard Okay donc 6 semaines l'été à plein temps, ça m'a pris 3 étapes pour compléter, mais à ce moment-là, moi j'étais marié. 0:10:20.904 --> 0:10:28.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'avais une blonde et puis bon, on faisait du camping, les loisirs, c'était les médias étaient beaucoup moins importants qu'aujourd'hui. 0:10:28.704 --> 0:10:30.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard Aujourd'hui, vous vivez dans des écrans? 0:10:32.544 --> 0:10:32.994 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est. 0:10:34.964 --> 0:10:35.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Te donner une idée. 0:10:35.754 --> 0:10:40.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard La moyenne d'écoute de la télévision au Québec dans les années 70, c'était quand même assez élevé. 0:10:40.764 --> 0:10:51.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il y avait beaucoup de monde qui écoutaient beaucoup de télévision, genre 25, 20 6h par semaine pendant la saison d'automne, hiver et printemps, l'été, tout se fermait. 0:10:52.164 --> 0:10:56.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard Les gens aller à la pêche à la plage faisaient du camping, du canot. 0:10:57.244 --> 0:11:3.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Puis quand il faisait pas beau, Ben on a au cinéma ou on regardait s'il y avait pas un bon film à la télé, mais c'était c'était périphérique, là c'était pas. 0:11:5.324 --> 0:11:6.274 Philippe Alain Paradis Nous, sans que cela. 0:11:3.854 --> 0:11:8.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était pas ultra présent comme toujours comme comme maintenant. 0:11:8.244 --> 0:11:13.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard Donc, pour se rencontrer comme on fait maintenant, les gens se voyaient. 0:11:15.614 --> 0:11:21.104 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, nous aussi on a fait ça pas mal, comme comme j'étais petit, j'ai fait beaucoup de camping demain, puis la pêche, puis du du kayak. 0:11:21.114 --> 0:11:22.274 Philippe Alain Paradis Puis tout ouais. 0:11:22.324 --> 0:11:25.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et même adulte, mais même même. 0:11:25.444 --> 0:11:29.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Moins de nos jours, mais toute mon enfance, j'ai, j'ai fait ça. 0:11:29.834 --> 0:11:30.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:11:29.914 --> 0:11:32.564 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais les en. 0:11:34.554 --> 0:11:34.654 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc. 0:11:35.94 --> 0:11:35.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:11:36.644 --> 0:11:39.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Les anglophones et les francophones, ils? 0:11:41.224 --> 0:11:48.544 Philippe Alain Paradis Est-ce qu'il y a ce qu'il y a dans les mêmes courses, souvent, comme dans tes cours, est-ce que tu étais souvent avec des gens qui étaient comme bilingue où où anglophones aussi? 0:11:51.534 --> 0:11:52.84 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui. 0:11:49.744 --> 0:11:52.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sur le campus, tu veux dire non là là? 0:11:52.564 --> 0:11:59.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard À l'époque, la faculté de l'éducation que moi j'ai connue en 60 10 11 12 13, c'était français, c'est pas, c'était francophone. 0:12:0.134 --> 0:12:2.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'ailleurs, le terme francophone n'existait pas. 0:12:2.204 --> 0:12:6.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je déteste ce terme parce que c'est une manière des Français. 0:12:6.764 --> 0:12:11.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dire qu'on parle pas vraiment le Français, ça sonne comme du français francophone. 0:12:11.584 --> 0:12:12.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est ça que ça veut dire. 0:12:13.214 --> 0:12:13.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:12:13.214 --> 0:12:16.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Franco faune sont français. 0:12:17.44 --> 0:12:18.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ce n'est pas la langue française. 0:12:19.724 --> 0:12:19.964 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:12:20.424 --> 0:12:27.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'ailleurs, quand plus tard, quand j'ai travaillé en Europe, j'ai travaillé à Paris, je me gêne pas pour faire chier les Français de leur dire non, je suis pas un francophone, je suis un français d'Amérique. 0:12:29.404 --> 0:12:36.894 Philippe Alain Paradis Moi aussi je suis allé à Paris, puis moi aussi j'ai pogné des bizarres d'attitude quand j'essaie de leur parler en français, un. 0:12:35.374 --> 0:12:39.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais exactement d'ailleurs quand t'es, c'est leur manière un peu, comment dire. 0:12:41.794 --> 0:12:50.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est une manière un peu sournoise de dire, vous n'êtes pas français, vous êtes des francophones. 0:12:49.694 --> 0:12:52.154 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais ouais, ils veulent plus de valider genre. 0:12:50.554 --> 0:12:54.534 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, et ça, c'est les bagarres que j'ai eues moi à l'époque de TV 5. 0:12:54.544 --> 0:12:57.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais c'est après la période que vous voulez regarder dans vos. 0:12:57.954 --> 0:13:6.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dans les années 60 et 11121314 ou j'allais à Ottawa l'été, où j'avais enseigné auparavant Ottawa. 0:13:8.64 --> 0:13:18.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était les années du bilinguisme, c'était les années Pierre Trudeau, c'était le campus université de tramway était beaucoup plus francophone français que maintenant, je pense. 0:13:20.944 --> 0:13:32.714 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je vois que, par exemple, tout ce que vous envoyez tout en anglais, ce que j'ai regardé un peu votre projet là, au meka Oh by the way y avait des francophones dans le temps. 0:13:32.724 --> 0:13:33.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard Aujourd? 0:13:33.114 --> 0:13:37.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Hui, les anglophones se sont inscrits, puis Utopia, c'est c'est l'anglais qui mène. 0:13:38.214 --> 0:13:43.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je sais pas qu'est-ce qui est la proportion de d'étudiants francophones à Ottawa à votre université? 0:13:44.4 --> 0:13:48.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais à l'époque où j'étais comme je le dis éducation était tout en français. 0:13:48.664 --> 0:13:56.834 Pierre-Paul Brassard Médecine aussi, il y avait des cours en anglais ou, mais c'était à peu près 50 50, mais ça, je pourrais pas le le le le le le confirmer. 0:14:1.454 --> 0:14:1.814 Philippe Alain Paradis Certainement. 0:13:57.4 --> 0:14:13.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est peut-être une recherche intéressante que vous pourriez faire de vérifier ça, mais là proportion de français à l'université d'Ottawa qui avait été fondée par les Oblats OK dans les années 35, 40, pendant la guerre, je pense ou avant? 0:14:17.964 --> 0:14:18.94 Philippe Alain Paradis Un. 0:14:14.514 --> 0:14:26.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard Faisait que ça parlait français il y a encore des francophones là-bas, au niveau du des recteurs, des doyens et tout ça, mais moi j'ai pas eu un cours en anglais à l'université d'Ottawa, Okay? 0:14:26.254 --> 0:14:26.824 Philippe Alain Paradis Je vais juste. 0:14:29.294 --> 0:14:33.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Résumer un peu de ce que t'as dit jusqu'à date pour elle pour qu'elle soit un peu au courant. 0:14:38.534 --> 0:14:42.24 Philippe Alain Paradis Cinéma, imbécile, Dead Night, classes. 0:14:44.444 --> 0:14:48.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Four de éducation for teachers collège. 0:14:51.354 --> 0:14:53.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Campus movies. 0:14:58.174 --> 0:15:2.904 Philippe Alain Paradis But generally very busy work and especially my uncle. 0:15:2.914 --> 0:15:12.774 Philippe Alain Paradis The same thing is him it was School focus, un aster francophones anglophones exclusive in french. 0:15:14.374 --> 0:15:17.754 Philippe Alain Paradis The french sidè of you, un. 0:15:19.734 --> 0:15:21.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Et bien. 0:15:22.284 --> 0:15:24.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Euh est-ce que aussi? 0:15:23.384 --> 0:15:26.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ohh de cette de cette work Now you courses? 0:15:26.304 --> 0:15:28.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors une English voilà l'enfant. 0:15:28.634 --> 0:15:33.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Exemple yo Yo y est, tu donnes une faculté d'histoire. 0:15:34.344 --> 0:15:35.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y aura le English charlatan. 0:15:35.994 --> 0:15:38.434 Philippe Alain Paradis Non, tu t'inscris soit en anglais ou en français. 0:15:38.444 --> 0:15:44.704 Philippe Alain Paradis Puis chaque cours, il y a comme une version anglaise, une une version française que tu prends la salle là, celle que tu vas aller dedans. 0:15:45.4 --> 0:15:51.344 Philippe Alain Paradis Moi, je prends un mélange des 2 à coucher bilingue, je peux prendre n'importe quel cours, donc comme la moitié de mes courses en français à la moitié sont en anglais. 0:15:51.444 --> 0:15:52.504 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais c'était seulement. 0:15:51.604 --> 0:15:54.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une sachant de t école au Kosovo, English. 0:15:58.694 --> 0:15:59.624 Philippe Alain Paradis Alors you Dead? 0:16:0.974 --> 0:16:1.324 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oh. 0:16:2.774 --> 0:16:3.44 Philippe Alain Paradis AMD. 0:16:4.744 --> 0:16:5.204 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Il y a ces 2. 0:16:5.884 --> 0:16:8.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK date, c'est c'est important. 0:16:8.774 --> 0:16:12.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Because of you going back in Fifty years behind? 0:16:14.244 --> 0:16:15.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des. 0:16:18.24 --> 0:16:23.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Situation was not le Today for exemple au Québec was, euh. 0:16:23.924 --> 0:16:40.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard And french parking canadiens en Ontario and New Brunswick Whitby about twenty twenty Nine persons of the World population soul de Power base was the World More exchanges et was today. 0:16:40.664 --> 0:16:54.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard Go to you get the impression of Ontario that okay that's another country, puis Québec we don't want to match bordât we don't bother PAF, puis want to and the feeling the same on the sidè of the River. 0:16:56.254 --> 0:17:6.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non Dieu we will votre and contact and that with more and more, and that's what you Ve got the most is that? 0:17:9.144 --> 0:17:9.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard Amine. 0:17:10.994 --> 0:17:20.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Story of Canada, la lune Desberg and people Ontario Waligo West Or tout Vancouver wigo South. 0:17:21.24 --> 0:17:23.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moi, je m'en vais, yeux, viens de culture américaine, culturel. 0:17:24.294 --> 0:17:33.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Match, Ah bon **** de North **** de Media org totalement way from your questions and so. 0:17:36.14 --> 0:17:42.104 Philippe Alain Paradis Un autre question, c'est un peu différent, mais qu'est-ce que le corps d'étudiant penses de la guerre au Vietnam? 0:17:46.104 --> 0:17:46.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:17:44.134 --> 0:17:46.384 Philippe Alain Paradis Si, comment en général, comme l'opinion. 0:17:48.34 --> 0:17:55.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard La le le la guerre du Vietnam si tu veux l'opinion de de des francophones à l'époque. 0:17:57.264 --> 0:17:57.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah ouais? 0:17:54.614 --> 0:18:1.564 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais Ben des étudiants en général que t'as vu genre comme dans ton temps les gens de ton âge qui pensait la guerre? 0:18:1.344 --> 0:18:6.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bon Ben écoute, on avait, c'était les les années Flower Power. 0:18:6.234 --> 0:18:9.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, Euh, on avait on avait? 0:18:11.914 --> 0:18:18.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tiroir no concern about Vietnam we were sorry for the americans Origins à ****** of the World. 0:18:18.574 --> 0:18:24.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard Many draft dodgers comme your Heart, I'm mener. 0:18:24.94 --> 0:18:26.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une Toronto où you had so Montréal? 0:18:27.444 --> 0:18:43.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh, des idées Study Or come to work and euh underworld je croyait understanding that coming from the stage, the Kids that I want to Go to fight and yet Nam des Windows run after Day. 0:18:45.494 --> 0:18:45.924 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:18:46.74 --> 0:18:46.324 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Mais. 0:18:45.524 --> 0:18:47.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, Euh. 0:18:48.334 --> 0:18:49.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah enfin oui. 0:18:49.794 --> 0:18:57.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Work concern est it's a Bloody War Man with the point of fighting over and play. 0:18:59.724 --> 0:19:21.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et toi speed and me vois moi, voire de bad girlfriend and having fun and Android Life bâcler and soda, yamine des de World of Heart again, because of more Limited Access from the Media from outside and outside Canada. 0:19:22.224 --> 0:19:32.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard We were much more concentrated with hère with what was happening hère Park was important baseball left because we are surmonté TV. 0:19:32.684 --> 0:19:39.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard But, je n'ai dans le football Popular as American football, Wonderful still the case. 0:19:41.484 --> 0:20:1.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard De french Movies and English Canadian cinéma, wase Rising in the World, some interesting Project and télévision production voisin important CBCCTV à the time of corson et Montréal will and. 0:20:3.214 --> 0:20:9.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard That's Why I Want to à with à Background in éducation to Go and work at TV Ontario. 0:20:11.84 --> 0:20:24.864 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, Euh, t'as vu interio base One of the model TV Network in the World, at that time it was the first bilingual institution creator dentarium officially bilingual. 0:20:26.724 --> 0:20:43.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Que l'état de Nineteen Sixty, Eight Seven Seven, Eight others like that with the Ontario Institute for studies in éducation after OISI willy-cat UFTT. 0:20:45.154 --> 0:20:46.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sont dates. 0:20:46.234 --> 0:20:54.824 Pierre-Paul Brassard Why when I am teaching French and there but with à taste for. 0:20:56.364 --> 0:21:0.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Movie, cinéma and going à broder, what not? 0:21:0.714 --> 0:21:8.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Fin discovering the World Go, Let's Go and World and the job open and I had the first. 0:21:8.994 --> 0:21:9.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh. 0:21:10.564 --> 0:21:33.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard Consultant job french picking, fort de french picking School, vous et lantero to bring and télévision 12, somme t shirt training que Dior rage I was about you rage parti was you know I hate de de training for and the type that was very différent, Contexts and Today. 0:21:36.44 --> 0:21:36.284 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Alors? 0:21:36.124 --> 0:21:44.44 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans le location dans les années 60, les artistes du rock and roll encourage diverses formes de protestation. 0:21:44.204 --> 0:21:52.854 Philippe Alain Paradis Ce que vous c'était quoi comme l'opinion de vos parents sur le rock and Roll qui passait, c'était comme un mouvement rébellion ou juste un un de différents genres de musique. 0:22:3.764 --> 0:22:4.164 Philippe Alain Paradis Je l'ai. 0:22:14.524 --> 0:22:15.204 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:22:20.194 --> 0:22:22.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Oh OK Thomas, OK. 0:22:26.684 --> 0:22:27.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah OK? 0:22:28.324 --> 0:22:30.854 Philippe Alain Paradis Parce que t'as entendu ma dernière question, est-ce que ça a coupé avant? 0:22:31.784 --> 0:22:33.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais, tu parles là. 0:22:33.44 --> 0:22:35.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dans les années 60 ou les artistes? 0:22:35.464 --> 0:22:41.684 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, dans les années 60, le rock and Roll était à encouragé divers formes de protestation. 0:22:41.814 --> 0:22:45.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Est-ce que vous considérez le rock and roll comme un mouvement? 0:22:45.264 --> 0:22:48.94 Philippe Alain Paradis Rébellion comme un simplement forme de musique populaire? 0:22:51.264 --> 0:23:0.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était au Canada français, c'était quelque chose qui était la religion ne permettait pas, mais c'est la religion était en train de en chute libre quoi. 0:23:0.934 --> 0:23:5.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors on faisait un compromis à l'anglaise. 0:23:5.354 --> 0:23:7.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si tu veux, on on, on. 0:23:9.104 --> 0:23:15.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard On aime le rock'n'Roll, on quand on décide et qu'on faisait une partie, on faisait une partie pédagogique. 0:23:16.604 --> 0:23:18.994 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, sauter pareil, t'as pas bien correctement. 0:23:17.994 --> 0:23:20.324 Pierre-Paul Brassard On demande à quoi on demande pas la permission. 0:23:20.334 --> 0:23:22.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Puis nos parents s'organisent pour faire d'autres choses. 0:23:23.754 --> 0:23:27.674 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, ça y avait pas ça, mais il s'arrangeait, genre. 0:23:26.864 --> 0:23:32.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ben Ben je dois dire pour y avait probablement le feeling que j'ai maintenant quand j'entends du. 0:23:34.834 --> 0:23:38.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Du bruit qui qui est qui ressemble à de la musique? 0:23:38.664 --> 0:23:42.164 Pierre-Paul Brassard Aujourd'hui, c'était pas, c'était une autre époque, et toi? 0:23:42.174 --> 0:23:47.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je verrai, mais le, le rock and roll was very popular in Québec. 0:23:49.804 --> 0:23:51.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un prof avait that? 0:23:51.124 --> 0:24:1.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard Many many musicians start-up vers écouter tout by the de Redmond and right to Song in french show show that. 0:24:4.34 --> 0:24:13.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sans modem bento, R and Broad, rock and roll to Friends and the French washing, why do the only One who will rock? 0:24:14.634 --> 0:24:20.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard L'industrie doit the more ta, ta ta, ta mort organisé french touch non you? 0:24:20.654 --> 0:24:22.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard À la question sharia. 0:24:22.874 --> 0:24:27.434 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Certains voient de la culture des jeunes des années 1970, on corrigeait la plus Rise de drogues récréatives. 0:24:36.464 --> 0:24:44.214 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Dans quelle mesure les drogues récréatives était elle disponible sur le campus dans les années 1970? 0:24:46.814 --> 0:24:50.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard Excuse magasin get what was available on a campus in the seventies. 0:24:50.444 --> 0:24:57.594 Philippe Alain Paradis Des des drogues récréatives comme est-ce que est-ce que t'as vu beaucoup de drogues, pas de toi comme toi même, mais comme as-tu vu d'autres gens? 0:24:57.604 --> 0:24:58.884 Philippe Alain Paradis Beaucoup non plus. 0:24:58.144 --> 0:25:1.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors non, t'as choisi la marijuana? 0:25:1.164 --> 0:25:3.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais, pas pleur in Toronto. 0:25:7.294 --> 0:25:16.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une endroit I don't remember One maybe two couple of parties but it was a very much undercover et twas criminal. 0:25:17.564 --> 0:25:28.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et Twas Dan and Université Kids with students that with à work taking chances litterary to be high kick out. 0:25:29.864 --> 0:25:34.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh off campus Or Simply. 0:25:36.274 --> 0:25:40.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard By de parents et 3 expenses. 0:25:43.214 --> 0:25:46.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard I never both myself I had à couple of joint joint. 0:25:48.774 --> 0:25:51.144 Pierre-Paul Brassard Voilà, Roger tu rentres en Bretagne? 0:25:51.184 --> 0:25:52.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Marijuana, rose something that. 0:25:55.514 --> 0:25:58.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'ai 3 note accepté d'y être accepté Ford. 0:26:0.994 --> 0:26:6.264 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur star stable présent, mais c'était pas accepté, vraiment, c'était, c'était illégal. 0:26:6.274 --> 0:26:7.504 Philippe Alain Paradis Puis il fallait garder ça comme. 0:26:9.714 --> 0:26:10.84 Philippe Alain Paradis Bien. 0:26:8.214 --> 0:26:18.14 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je t'écris minel ouais Ouais carrément, c'était le, c'était de la, c'était de de, c'était de la, de la de sous couvert sous match, de débrouiller, hein? 0:26:18.54 --> 0:26:18.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un destin? 0:26:18.674 --> 0:26:22.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, une September late octobre, septembre. 0:26:23.4 --> 0:26:31.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard R you have rage from the OPP and Québec police into corn Fields. 0:26:32.734 --> 0:26:36.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Where des des. 0:26:41.84 --> 0:26:41.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Ou. 0:26:37.644 --> 0:26:51.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bike bike **** with growth and to confine it because it was allowed and the cornfield and Unknown laisse paraître with à White à helicopter plan. 0:26:52.724 --> 0:26:52.994 Philippe Alain Paradis Pour. 0:26:54.34 --> 0:26:57.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Au revoir et le bouquin very Quick les Verts ouais non? 0:26:57.214 --> 0:27:0.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Also in the US that we had very good quality. 0:27:6.474 --> 0:27:18.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sont dans une des seventies, airy of course **** drugs, the World vers Little first time of season, une église voisine, BC, une Vancouver. 0:27:19.294 --> 0:27:19.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Voilà. 0:27:19.884 --> 0:27:21.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Vers 3h comme il faut agir of course. 0:27:24.934 --> 0:27:32.954 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans les 70, il parlait beaucoup du TRIP et les prises des 5 à Dax pour atteindre un état de conscience supérieur. 0:27:34.434 --> 0:27:38.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans quelle mesure les étudiants du campus consommaient des hallucinogènes? 0:27:39.654 --> 0:27:40.154 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est, c'est. 0:27:41.64 --> 0:27:42.764 Pierre-Paul Brassard To my horloger, never say nothing. 0:27:43.34 --> 0:27:44.274 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, c'était pas aussi populaire. 0:27:46.14 --> 0:27:47.164 Philippe Alain Paradis Non, sauf. 0:27:45.34 --> 0:27:49.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, la note est en éducation in Wall Street, Hein? 0:27:49.424 --> 0:27:54.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Maybe and I don't know and low médecine Or Engineering. 0:27:55.554 --> 0:27:55.874 Philippe Alain Paradis Bien. 0:27:56.14 --> 0:27:57.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard Explorer département I don't know. 0:28:0.634 --> 0:28:5.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, dans l'Oise, vert et vert et les méthodes de taille. 0:28:8.164 --> 0:28:8.344 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:28:8.994 --> 0:28:9.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non mais oui. 0:28:12.134 --> 0:28:17.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mon peuple World drinking un courageusement et une fashion. 0:28:19.764 --> 0:28:25.24 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK, merci, on nous allons passer à la section 2 de de l'interview. 0:28:27.94 --> 0:28:51.404 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Question principale numéro un, les les historiens de la culture ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'il appelle le féminisme, de la 2e vague, à savoir que dans le cadre du mouvement de la Contreculture, les thèmes de de début des années 1970, on cherchait à à briser des barrières entre le ****. 0:28:51.644 --> 0:28:52.794 Shaza El Hajj Hassan C'est argument raisonné. 0:28:52.804 --> 0:28:59.544 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Utile avec votre expérience sur le campus de l'université d'Ottawa au début des années 1970. 0:29:4.894 --> 0:29:8.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Comme je te dis, nous, on n'était plus au niveau de la maîtrise. 0:29:8.794 --> 0:29:10.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Les étudiants étaient plus âgés, hein? 0:29:11.424 --> 0:29:14.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il y en avait plusieurs mois de mes confrères à à la maîtrise. 0:29:14.894 --> 0:29:19.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard En tout cas, l'été ou les les, les, les cours de soirée qui étaient mariés. 0:29:20.794 --> 0:29:23.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Plusieurs avait une petite famille, un, 2 enfants. 0:29:24.434 --> 0:29:38.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moi, je me suis marié à la fin de ma maîtrise, je vais une girl friend tout le long des études, de sorte que on avait moins de de vie sur le campus, comme vous autres, par exemple Aujourd hui? 0:29:39.344 --> 0:29:41.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Parce que vous êtes plus jeunes, OK? 0:29:42.984 --> 0:29:48.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard À l'époque, on terminait un bac à l'âge de 19 20, vingt-et-un ans. 0:29:49.994 --> 0:29:52.94 Pierre-Paul Brassard Niveau maîtrise, on s'y rendait. 0:29:52.104 --> 0:29:54.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard 25 26 30 30 35. 0:29:54.534 --> 0:30:8.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Certains le faisaient plus tard, alors comme on disait au début, la vie était beaucoup plus dure à gagner, on était moins riche, y avait beaucoup moins d'argent circulation. 0:30:8.224 --> 0:30:15.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Maintenant, vous autres, présentement, vous avez tous des cartes de crédit, probablement y a un de car pour les une radio car. 0:30:17.724 --> 0:30:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et you have surfonds another shit and your University cost, à fortune to your parents sur to yourself. 0:30:27.114 --> 0:30:32.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, because durant Londres débordera help? 0:30:32.564 --> 0:30:33.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Est-ce que c'est un watt? 0:30:33.594 --> 0:30:43.404 Pierre-Paul Brassard North date de note existe, un One was going to University 3 mois sur le time money that you had worked very **** to to Heart. 0:30:44.624 --> 0:30:52.724 Philippe Alain Paradis Sao c'était trop comme occupé pour, comme pour sa préoccuper avec des mouvements comme le féminisme. 0:30:52.734 --> 0:30:53.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Genre, c'est tout ça que. 0:31:1.814 --> 0:31:2.174 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:30:54.684 --> 0:31:2.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bon, ça ça wow, ça, c'était quelque chose qui était nouveau le féminisme. 0:31:2.294 --> 0:31:4.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais dans les années 70, attends une minute. 0:31:9.804 --> 0:31:10.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:31:6.624 --> 0:31:15.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est plus les années 4 vingts 85 90 ou c'est venu mainstream y avait je pense hein? 0:31:15.484 --> 0:31:17.4 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y avait quand même quelques. 0:31:19.934 --> 0:31:22.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Jeune sur le campus, qui était féministe, mais. 0:31:25.114 --> 0:31:28.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était pas quelque chose qui se discutait ou qui faisait partie. 0:31:28.934 --> 0:31:34.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si tu veux des préoccupations, là par exemple dans les médias, dans les journaux de temps en temps. 0:31:34.534 --> 0:31:39.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et puis il pouvait y avoir un article mais mais en tout cas, peut-être que j'ai manqué des bouts. 0:31:40.744 --> 0:31:45.324 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, c'est juste un sujet très populaire de mon expérience alors OK. 0:31:40.804 --> 0:31:50.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard On a absolument pas, absolument pas, c'est les les, les les années 70, c'était les années ou les femmes découvrent la pilule. 0:31:52.84 --> 0:31:52.484 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:31:52.584 --> 0:32:5.994 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, donc l'émancipation ******** était beaucoup une nouvelle pratique, par exemple vivre en couple sans mariée, c'était quelque chose qui arrivait. 0:32:6.4 --> 0:32:7.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était nouveau, wow. 0:32:7.124 --> 0:32:9.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était intéressant parce que y en a qui en ont profité longtemps. 0:32:11.364 --> 0:32:11.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais. 0:32:13.384 --> 0:32:22.684 Pierre-Paul Brassard La la LA, le le, les questions du féminisme sont venues plus tard parce que justement, ce que ce que la la pilule à fait, c'est que ça a donné beaucoup plus de dépendance aux femmes. 0:32:23.994 --> 0:32:28.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y a eu tout d'un coup beaucoup plus de femmes sur les campus universitaires. 0:32:28.54 --> 0:32:42.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Avant ça, c'était très très mal, hein, c'était pour toutes les raisons qu'on dit pour, à cause des coûts à cause des rôles à cause de de parce que les femmes étaient moins indépendantes tout soudainement, ils sont devenus beaucoup plus indépendantes. 0:32:43.654 --> 0:32:52.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK et en éducation, c'est intéressant parce que justement à la faculté y avait toujours eu beaucoup de femmes. 0:32:54.614 --> 0:32:55.794 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, ça fait du sens. 0:32:53.904 --> 0:32:56.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK donc. 0:32:58.114 --> 0:33:0.14 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ça, les honneurs de pas trop, le féminisme. 0:33:0.774 --> 0:33:8.624 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais donc il me semble que peut-être t'as vu beaucoup des effets genre comme t'as vu la pilule, commencer des coups comme non mariés. 0:33:8.634 --> 0:33:9.844 Philippe Alain Paradis T'as vu certaines? 0:33:9.854 --> 0:33:13.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Certaines des effets du mouvement du féminisme, peut-être que ça a pas été autant parlé, mais. 0:33:13.864 --> 0:33:19.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oui, on a vu arriver les quais aussi, c'était la la, les commençait à sortir des placards. 0:33:19.334 --> 0:33:30.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le, les homosexuels commencent à c'était pas un scandale que de savoir que, surtout dans le dans le domaine où je travaillais, contrario des des des homosexuels, y en avait beaucoup. 0:33:31.374 --> 0:33:40.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh, on trouvait ça pénible par bout de travailler avec les autres quand on fait bouger, mais en tout cas il y a, il y a la diversité commençait à émerger. 0:33:40.594 --> 0:33:45.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Effectivement, et c'est quelque chose qui qui était accepté de plus en plus. 0:33:45.374 --> 0:33:55.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais encore une fois, dans les milieux universitaires, dans les milieux des médias, mais dans le en général, c'était pas quelque chose qui était très, très, très. 0:33:55.894 --> 0:34:0.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ma mère était quand elle entendait les histoires comme ça. 0:34:1.934 --> 0:34:2.934 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur l'étape handboard. 0:34:3.834 --> 0:34:4.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non non, non non. 0:34:4.904 --> 0:34:9.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et c'est normal, c'est normal parce que leur univers était était complètement changé. 0:34:11.874 --> 0:34:13.494 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais euh. 0:34:16.114 --> 0:34:16.634 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Et Ah OK. 0:34:19.174 --> 0:34:30.424 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Dans un année 1970, il y avait il des programmes, des départements ou des clubs de l'université d'Ottawa ou les femmes est étaient moins présentes et moins acceptées? 0:34:33.374 --> 0:34:35.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moins présente tu veux dire comme étudiante ou comme prof? 0:34:36.994 --> 0:34:46.924 Philippe Alain Paradis En général, vraiment, comme il y avait tu des places, soit comme dans des situations sociales où professionnelles où over ou ce que t'as vu que les femmes étaient comme étaient moins là ou moins acceptées. 0:34:49.474 --> 0:34:49.754 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:34:47.884 --> 0:34:51.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pas en éducation, en éducation, t'avais du monde de partout. 0:34:52.754 --> 0:35:2.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Parce que finalement, c'était une une, une des professions avec les sciences infirmières et la médecine ou les femmes ont toujours été présentes depuis toujours. 0:35:3.424 --> 0:35:26.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard Même avant les années 70, dans les années 1900, c'était au Québec, au Canada français, puis au beaucoup en Ontario aussi, d'installer les communautés religieuses, alors, les hôpitaux et les, les écoles, c'était beaucoup les communautés religieuses que les sœurs qui s'en occupaient ou les curés. 0:35:29.174 --> 0:35:36.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ou à l'extrême que je Sacha, when you rascal, you got secondary School, parler a good time. 0:35:37.214 --> 0:35:43.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Nineteen seventy was the first year I was The Last Group of graduate at the Bachelor of arts. 0:35:44.954 --> 0:36:2.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Teach in collège classique in à Cross Québec and Ontario you had in sodefor exemple Laurentian University with choisissez affiliated tout l'avalée University with by the way se dit all the University North America. 0:36:3.34 --> 0:36:3.274 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Wow. 0:36:4.174 --> 0:36:11.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK and un des un, un date, time? 0:36:14.694 --> 0:36:24.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ilm the nineteen sixty five to seventys the éducation system in french Canada became public à. 0:36:25.314 --> 0:36:34.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard De cégep ou à créer ton junior collège, un université du Québec was created that was Seven New University campus. 0:36:36.104 --> 0:36:37.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Created une. 0:36:37.904 --> 0:36:54.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gatineau, 3 juin hors de time One in abitibi, où on est une travers, Trois-Rivières, rimouski, chicoutimi and you had thousands of use to do and going to the University level other. 0:36:56.574 --> 0:36:56.844 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah. 0:36:59.844 --> 0:37:2.34 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Okay merci, euh. 0:37:1.714 --> 0:37:3.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est de la révolution tranquille. 0:37:4.274 --> 0:37:5.794 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui, oui. 0:37:5.564 --> 0:37:6.14 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oui. 0:37:5.294 --> 0:37:15.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK dans what happen and to Go further behind that to understand what it had what happened that. 0:37:15.714 --> 0:37:16.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard In Ontario? 0:37:18.244 --> 0:37:35.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Éducation de tout élément the School Gréât Seven was made Mandatory, une eighteen seventy One centimeter un only in nineteen thirty date. 0:37:44.474 --> 0:37:44.704 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Non? 0:37:35.584 --> 0:37:51.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une Québec de Gréât 6 School, was made Mandatory before that you don't want to Go to School and Go, OK underwater, and the reason for that is not because people what interests that the. 0:37:53.364 --> 0:37:59.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Old de quand on dit et ou un fond de contre-réaction divers? 0:38:2.124 --> 0:38:3.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Or de french. 0:38:4.964 --> 0:38:14.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bourgeoisie upper class purger traders and politicians One back to France after the conquest? 0:38:16.374 --> 0:38:36.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sur dates, Wild Lord of you know de de d'y aller vite clash lors de notre agréable people ou encore hein ça we were left with a long time to learn to and keep contact that's How and in the sixties and seventies. 0:38:37.404 --> 0:38:41.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pouf en it all came back the money coming and the schools and. 0:38:43.334 --> 0:38:43.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard Route of. 0:38:45.494 --> 0:38:47.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Richesse was created dans la balade. 0:38:48.694 --> 0:38:50.504 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Hum, Ah. 0:38:50.344 --> 0:38:57.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Son macho dating 30 years Tony five years de level of Éducation and Québec is comparable to Ontario. 0:39:1.784 --> 0:39:8.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Bon je me chemin, moi tu peux commencer 3 questions principales numéro 3, écoute. 0:39:10.494 --> 0:39:10.874 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah OK? 0:39:13.564 --> 0:39:22.444 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Il YAOK les les historiens de la culture en affirme que l'introduction de la pilule comme contraceptif. 0:39:22.514 --> 0:39:24.124 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Active la légalité. 0:39:25.734 --> 0:39:26.414 Philippe Alain Paradis L'inflation? 0:39:24.484 --> 0:39:27.894 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Légalisation, il vois. 0:39:29.164 --> 0:39:29.664 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Miam. 0:39:28.844 --> 0:39:31.124 Philippe Alain Paradis La législation et l'avortement. 0:39:31.844 --> 0:39:33.384 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Alors, Ah OK? 0:39:33.64 --> 0:39:34.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh Oh dans 3 abbés. 0:39:34.914 --> 0:39:42.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard One, l'avortement, c'était la loi qui était écrite par le gouvernement Trudeau. 0:39:43.684 --> 0:39:49.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard L'égalisation et qui a fait couler beaucoup d'encre, ça a été des longs débats. 0:39:49.524 --> 0:39:53.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était en fait les pros et les antis. 0:39:54.594 --> 0:39:54.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK. 0:39:55.44 --> 0:39:57.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais plus plus de côté social. 0:39:57.534 --> 0:40:0.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Entre vous, vos amis et juste des pères en général. 0:40:2.934 --> 0:40:7.644 Philippe Alain Paradis Ben la question c'est plus ça, on on prend, nous, on pense que ça l'a vraiment beaucoup modifié. 0:40:7.654 --> 0:40:14.874 Philippe Alain Paradis La relation entre les hommes et les femmes dans ce temps là est ce que vous ce que vous êtes en accord avec ça, ça a vraiment beaucoup changé. 0:40:14.884 --> 0:40:16.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Comment les relations spatiales dans ce temps-là? 0:40:18.944 --> 0:40:19.184 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:40:17.174 --> 0:40:22.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ça non, on parlait pas de ça, on le faisait. 0:40:24.224 --> 0:40:24.534 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:40:27.294 --> 0:40:30.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard On ne c'est comme l'amour, on en parlait pas, on le faisait. 0:40:31.614 --> 0:40:33.224 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc c'est un peu comme tabou genre. 0:40:31.684 --> 0:40:33.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était pas surtout des écrans. 0:40:33.354 --> 0:40:35.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était, c'était, c'était privé. 0:40:36.814 --> 0:40:37.34 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:40:43.534 --> 0:40:43.924 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oui. 0:40:36.654 --> 0:40:46.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh, c'était y et le débat social se faisait autour de ceux qui en faisaient la promotion, comme le docteur Morgan. 0:40:46.664 --> 0:40:48.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tall par exemple, et World. 0:40:50.214 --> 0:40:53.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Où practicing une différence? 0:40:53.984 --> 0:41:2.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Cities in Québec un dernier One to court and the justice system point Doctor him hé, was Jail Dan Uno. 0:41:2.134 --> 0:41:7.324 Pierre-Paul Brassard Twenty years later, when out and it started again in New Brunswick countdown. 0:41:8.204 --> 0:41:10.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et finally cross. 0:41:13.234 --> 0:41:22.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et Hère you want à différent, very différent attitude culturali speak in between the US à and Canada that that. 0:41:24.864 --> 0:41:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des bêtes as Bean. 0:41:28.534 --> 0:41:38.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard Notre Falls roll-out road True legislator not One point and people understood in Canada. 0:41:38.294 --> 0:41:42.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le législation sert OK et c'est personal affair. 0:41:43.804 --> 0:41:44.134 Philippe Alain Paradis So. 0:41:43.864 --> 0:41:46.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Like drugs like. 0:41:48.534 --> 0:42:1.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard Homosexualité un an l'optique questions, ouais, on a public places Word et Beatles Creed, the Lord of you, now, back and forth and not too much confusion. 0:42:1.504 --> 0:42:8.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard You are against Or you are pro and then at One point the Lord camin, and that's it. 0:42:8.164 --> 0:42:18.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard I mean country to the US, à where everything years, the old thing comme job again and the pro and cons, and because there was never really. 0:42:19.244 --> 0:42:23.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et consensus et ont date d'autres questions. 0:42:23.884 --> 0:42:25.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard Do not have to. 0:42:26.764 --> 0:42:29.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard **** to be in à public place and that's famous. 0:42:31.774 --> 0:42:39.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard Answer from Pierre Elliott Trudeau a le time, the War not going to les Jeffrey the bedrooms of the kenyans. 0:42:41.474 --> 0:42:50.814 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une de ses ventes dates One at One point qui cède, OK we have a lot about that and non c'est your business, you and it. 0:42:51.434 --> 0:42:51.764 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Regarde. 0:42:52.964 --> 0:43:1.684 Philippe Alain Paradis Et un autre question, comme pour aller par le souci, à quoi ressemblaient les fréquentations à l'université d'Ottawa dans les années 70? 0:43:2.174 --> 0:43:2.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh. 0:43:6.784 --> 0:43:9.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais les filles nord-est that was the place to be. 0:43:14.664 --> 0:43:23.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah was gréât now elle est healthy and 3h et was like today. 0:43:23.274 --> 0:43:33.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et avec cette data again when de de Somerset Spender, I was married so just Music. 0:43:36.424 --> 0:43:37.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais, je. 0:43:39.244 --> 0:43:40.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Life Évent. 0:43:42.114 --> 0:43:47.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh during academic years agacé et 3 live it again. 0:43:47.354 --> 0:44:11.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard ATT, l'éducation des adultes because that's what we were at the éducation faculty à the master level, remember you have the Choice and the master level to aider do à tissus for the grease Or Go to an exam that will last full Day with two three of your professors? OK. 0:44:13.444 --> 0:44:23.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'a 3 je Serious exam normal exemple where you had to demonstrate that was the Simulator, what was what we want? 0:44:23.284 --> 0:44:26.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Two sécologie management, déconnection and. 0:44:28.574 --> 0:44:29.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des. 0:44:31.64 --> 0:44:44.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard Question, il the time because I have The Voice Dean in in in the Group and the iasmi 100 what what you do differently et you starting your master again and roses. 0:44:44.624 --> 0:44:56.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard I did regret that not what the net full time to take advantage of the Life on the campus, the very Nice part of your study its. 0:45:0.174 --> 0:45:12.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, et avec ce comment votre génération considérait elle, la famille mariage, genre en vous les étudiants sur le campus, ils fréquentent souvent. 0:45:14.574 --> 0:45:18.144 Philippe Alain Paradis Est-ce que c'est, c'était toi, tu l'as comme touche un peu plus? 0:45:18.184 --> 0:45:22.864 Philippe Alain Paradis Un peu plus tôt, mais c'était plus acceptable de juste sortir ensemble et pas être marié, right? 0:45:23.664 --> 0:45:40.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ohh prochain compte yuko devanlay water woman and then you know moi tous, ouais Men at the time with the Pearl et twas the pries HI years. 0:45:40.584 --> 0:45:42.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard So, non. 0:45:44.114 --> 0:45:45.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard Robert Now. 0:45:47.14 --> 0:45:47.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une relation? 0:45:49.374 --> 0:46:7.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard And non femme, elle est One of the various data evolved since then was still Strong institution and if today, but à social How to say that. 0:46:9.824 --> 0:46:20.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Social Life was not âge développa with OS présent because One again because of the Media de prêcher Wass. 0:46:20.884 --> 0:46:28.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard People were Doing things, the World there was last time of hall so for leisure. 0:46:29.464 --> 0:46:38.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Remember in the seventh pays normal, work we will be sur les Fifty Fifty five hours à week non Workington ify. 0:46:40.684 --> 0:46:40.894 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:46:40.334 --> 0:46:47.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK when I say that we work ****** to and the money with Gold? 0:46:49.24 --> 0:46:49.294 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:46:49.764 --> 0:46:59.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y yoga résident réalisé which we came à when we Watch the News and so and sea of all things of the four. 0:47:2.364 --> 0:47:15.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, y a y a une dernière action qui est facultative complètement et je m'excuse, il faut vraiment que je Lise à partie à cause de professeurs dit que c'est c'est il faut qu'on le fasse un, ça va être la course. 0:47:15.294 --> 0:47:21.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Cette section, la section suivante est facultative et concerne la sexualité et l'harcèlement. 0:47:21.394 --> 0:47:33.974 Philippe Alain Paradis Nous sommes conscients que tout le monde ne se sentira pas à l'aise avec ces questions et nous tenons à rappeler que votre participation entièrement volontaire, vous pouvez choisir de ne pas répondre aux questions qui vous mettent à l'aise ou de sauter entièrement à cette section. 0:47:34.914 --> 0:47:35.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK. 0:47:38.154 --> 0:47:38.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Chaude? 0:47:36.84 --> 0:47:39.454 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est que c'est correct avec OK. 0:47:41.474 --> 0:47:47.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Aujourd'hui, nombreuses universités, ont été contraintes de contrôler la recèlement ******. 0:47:47.444 --> 0:47:54.864 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans quelle mesure les autorités universitaires ont, elles, surveille les soirées et les événements sociaux pour assurer la sécurité des femmes? 0:47:57.184 --> 0:47:57.594 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK. 0:48:3.104 --> 0:48:8.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais bah dans quelle mesure règles dont hum, thinking parties and things, Big ones. 0:48:9.674 --> 0:48:19.864 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dewar some strongs Student, associations and a time that was in charge of Agathe est sur la caisse today. 0:48:20.364 --> 0:48:22.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Elle devient une charge, tu vas faire? 0:48:24.214 --> 0:48:38.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ils t'ont activités aux sports and what not on the campus with the présence in the Wind like a Ah board level from University Or collège okay. 0:48:40.594 --> 0:48:46.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Date, Bing One, something happen, we were Adolf Young Adult and there was. 0:48:48.444 --> 0:48:51.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard Normal behavior that Works est vraiment gay. 0:48:51.624 --> 0:48:52.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh so respect. 0:48:52.894 --> 0:49:7.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sometimes people die more Girls of guys some time some web sites on va dire was no surveillance, c'est SMS to be today because there was bon. 0:49:7.54 --> 0:49:10.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Attention donc au retour to the script that. 0:49:12.874 --> 0:49:20.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le majority of the Soudan on campus of the time with Wood be have will not a grâce à woman to be clear. 0:49:22.244 --> 0:49:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard We you will not see to Girls dancing to better to guides dancing to better. 0:49:28.634 --> 0:49:31.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard De temps, une blague, non? 0:49:28.674 --> 0:49:41.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc, c'était plus les étudiants qui ont c'était plus les étudiants qui ont qui ont organisé les événements de façon que ça serait plus sécuritaire à la place d'avoir besoin de la sécurité qui vient surveiller genre. 0:49:42.544 --> 0:49:44.94 Pierre-Paul Brassard Avec d'autres membres dans. 0:49:44.484 --> 0:49:46.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais OK et? 0:49:46.174 --> 0:49:50.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Très bien aiden Live full School year on the campus. 0:49:52.534 --> 0:49:55.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bot Yvan in Company. 0:49:57.854 --> 0:50:14.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bah tant que telle par exemple pour people Drunk Love, we have fun dancing now, let your hair down as you will, c'est the time but nothing that to be Wood. Non? 0:50:15.104 --> 0:50:31.384 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, et notre génération est intéressée par un mouvement de l'amour libre qu'elle était la perception des relations ********* avant le mariage sur le campus de l'université d'Ottawa dans les années 70 était telle vue, négativement, accepté ou même encouragé. 0:50:34.904 --> 0:50:36.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard 23 personnes d'affaires. 0:50:37.554 --> 0:50:37.774 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:50:37.454 --> 0:50:39.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Forme beauté Girls and guys. 0:50:41.184 --> 0:50:48.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'un some of them with talk about it and we are the say that when you talk about you you you are not to be at. 0:50:53.154 --> 0:50:53.944 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, pas mal. 0:50:57.224 --> 0:51:5.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un de remember many years later you know in adult Life et danger much. 0:51:7.254 --> 0:51:10.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un garage où temps dans mon ça parlait où je l'ai, un autre. 0:51:10.594 --> 0:51:11.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, t'as raison. 0:51:15.854 --> 0:51:22.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Et le membre de la génération de vos parents 5 5AT il des relations ********* avant le mariage? 0:51:24.304 --> 0:51:27.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh date quoi secret? 0:51:27.874 --> 0:51:31.504 Pierre-Paul Brassard Est fait apprend Bing, My Family. 0:51:34.954 --> 0:51:37.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard We had comment t'appelles ça? 0:51:37.294 --> 0:51:40.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une domestique qui s'occupait des enfants parce que on était une grosse famille. 0:51:41.434 --> 0:51:42.484 Philippe Alain Paradis Une gardienne, genre. 0:51:42.914 --> 0:51:44.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gardez, c'est ça. 0:51:44.714 --> 0:51:45.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais qui vivait à la maison? 0:51:46.674 --> 0:51:47.964 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc OK je comprends ouais. 0:51:46.104 --> 0:52:0.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, et mais parents généralement, quand ils engageaient une jeune fille 1819 ans, nous on savait pas, mais c'était une fille mère, c'est une fille qui était tombée enceinte et dont personne ne voulait parler. 0:52:1.794 --> 0:52:2.634 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc on dit. 0:52:1.854 --> 0:52:11.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors, il a gardait jusqu'à temps que ça devienne le temps d'avoir le bébé et là on l'a envoyé à Montréal pour faire un accouchement, parce qu'à l'époque, c'était t'étais. 0:52:11.884 --> 0:52:13.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une très mauvaise femme. 0:52:13.454 --> 0:52:14.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si t'avais un enfant hors mariage. 0:52:15.894 --> 0:52:19.644 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc t'es dans la génération, tes parents, c'était comme donc? 0:52:19.164 --> 0:52:28.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dans ton we will not people with Act in description and under thé of course. 0:52:28.144 --> 0:52:35.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Religion the présence of the religion, my parents génération OK you talking nineteen thirties and forties and fifties. 0:52:38.84 --> 0:52:45.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Where do you will hère Horror stories of woman that we have a borshan with in? 0:52:46.894 --> 0:52:58.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Là j'ai conditions and One un Guess that with the families that bit more Word bit more affluent Or more. 0:52:58.814 --> 0:53:8.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une forme de de scène de de Young Women à way ider you and Québec City should Go Montréal in chicoutimi. 0:53:8.134 --> 0:53:13.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Chez Hugo Québec seul et nobody was no way she Oh ça donnera who Montréal? 0:53:13.644 --> 0:53:15.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je prends le thé accueillante. 0:53:15.874 --> 0:53:22.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard And Read hear What Now two years later with à baby and put into Financial given away. 0:53:23.914 --> 0:53:26.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh *****, où est de Guy and. 0:53:28.904 --> 0:53:29.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une autre? 0:53:29.264 --> 0:53:29.564 Philippe Alain Paradis Et oui. 0:53:31.264 --> 0:53:31.594 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:53:31.154 --> 0:53:35.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bien index surtout, il y a une the old Canadian History. 0:53:37.204 --> 0:53:41.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et une french Canada where you are de voyageurs et de coureur des bois. 0:53:41.864 --> 0:53:42.724 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il veut le portable? 0:53:44.154 --> 0:53:45.24 Philippe Alain Paradis Je crois peut-être? 0:53:44.874 --> 0:53:45.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il va? 0:53:47.974 --> 0:53:52.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'ai coureurs de bois ou the people to do the trapping and the third Trade OK. 0:53:51.374 --> 0:53:54.114 Philippe Alain Paradis Le oui, oui, oui, je suis dit, ça. Ouais. 0:53:54.644 --> 0:54:4.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bon et puis on the good Reading to, il est un peu feeling of the Story of lower Canada with Québec. 0:54:5.924 --> 0:54:8.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Read le rêve de Champlain. 0:54:9.464 --> 0:54:11.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Ah OK, Ouais ouais. 0:54:10.454 --> 0:54:13.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK c'est break, c'est about that thick and. 0:54:13.504 --> 0:54:14.204 Philippe Alain Paradis On regarde. 0:54:15.824 --> 0:54:20.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard 381 by et instruit Professor at University of. 0:54:25.384 --> 0:54:25.874 Philippe Alain Paradis Mince. 0:54:23.284 --> 0:54:33.764 Pierre-Paul Brassard ****, une Boston d'un work with One of the greatest Orion in Québec City le trudel, le Louis Trudel. 0:54:35.704 --> 0:54:41.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Hip publish de what école de Dream of champlain ou à the time was. 0:54:43.74 --> 0:54:43.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gare Emirates. 0:54:51.534 --> 0:54:51.714 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:54:46.874 --> 0:54:57.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard One hundred years Wars in France and came to Canada to to Québec to create à New nation and I was. 0:55:0.114 --> 0:55:21.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et une Fever of de des communes de de Colomb, communion de de New habitant to mix with indians, non dans des Wood the Indian woman with Wood Lake, Europeans and the Man with Trade Arthur and the Witch Exchange, Bows and. 0:55:22.864 --> 0:55:29.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors ça, c'est good and Wonder baby what happen from Indian woman, but. 0:55:31.614 --> 0:55:37.144 Pierre-Paul Brassard Created by à french collant, voyageur, Or trappeur. 0:55:39.54 --> 0:55:53.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard Démo the baby des Wood Kid de format Or two and during the Winter the Wind bring back to his home and put it in à fer rap and leave it to the door and not on the door and Go away. 0:55:55.24 --> 0:55:55.514 Philippe Alain Paradis Ou. 0:55:58.684 --> 0:55:59.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais j'imagine. 0:55:56.544 --> 0:56:5.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un des Splinter stories like that the baby you know and the Family with keep the baby and not taken by beauty was was différent. 0:56:6.614 --> 0:56:12.824 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais ouais, j'ai entendu des histoires de même à travers l'histoire, mais c'est les questions. 0:56:12.864 --> 0:56:14.24 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est des questions qu'on a. 0:56:13.454 --> 0:56:14.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le voisin? 0:56:14.84 --> 0:56:15.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard Troisièmement, je vais leur de la bouchon. 0:56:16.814 --> 0:56:17.854 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui, oui, je. 0:56:19.154 --> 0:56:19.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non? 0:56:20.684 --> 0:56:20.944 Philippe Alain Paradis On. 0:56:26.674 --> 0:56:26.984 Philippe Alain Paradis Parle. 0:56:21.784 --> 0:56:42.4 Pierre-Paul Brassard Saute 12 traditions ou un sort of capte True, de générations and Matters of of à Button of Sexual activities, Or youngo, leur mari d'or not Wood somewhat gain in my. 0:56:42.504 --> 0:56:54.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard À toi habite éducation, notre propre populaire de de prise sur Saint Olive and religion will impose the roots votre et ne Fifty 106. 0:56:54.484 --> 0:56:56.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Les stats what started to change. 0:56:56.214 --> 0:56:58.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard People started to trouble people. 0:56:58.314 --> 0:57:3.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard There was a Big évent in Montréal and Nineteen Sixty Seven World Expo. 0:57:4.314 --> 0:57:5.814 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh, Oh là Ben ça n'aime. 0:57:5.824 --> 0:57:7.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Groupe Hole, Walking to Montréal. 0:57:10.794 --> 0:57:12.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Quoi ton impact culturel? 0:57:12.364 --> 0:57:12.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard Speaking. 0:57:13.284 --> 0:57:33.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Evan anowa, TEN ten years later we have the olympics du Montréal de journal Nineteen Seventy Three on Wikipédia and Let's Phone n'est pas, je crois pas là va interviews with Pierre Trudeau de de Dan Prime Minister et suggère d'étudier que le cadavre, euh. 0:57:33.644 --> 0:57:41.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard One of the New Washing, Oh Trudeau Refuses n subsidies to de Montréal Olympics, notre sainte. 0:57:45.514 --> 0:57:45.914 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:57:42.954 --> 0:57:51.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard Because Montréal Or because we know, but the first thing that Calgary got Or Vancouver for War Games. 0:57:51.344 --> 0:57:57.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ou avec mon Info Mawa so Wild we paid for it and what the Hell with you guys. 0:58:0.474 --> 0:58:2.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard La soirée collé, les 2 solitudes. 0:58:3.464 --> 0:58:3.934 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:58:7.924 --> 0:58:8.724 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une équation. 0:58:8.54 --> 0:58:10.174 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur non dormir? 0:58:15.344 --> 0:58:15.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:58:15.724 --> 0:58:17.204 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah Ah oui, je sais, merci. 0:58:18.774 --> 0:58:20.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK Bonjour. 0:58:20.434 --> 0:58:21.634 Philippe Alain Paradis Voilà, ouais. 0:58:22.184 --> 0:58:25.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais ma boîte, donc bye à Nice. 0:58:28.64 --> 0:58:29.54 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ouais, y a. 0:58:25.254 --> 0:58:30.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Stories, without checking out, c'est, c'est bien, non? 0:58:30.394 --> 0:58:30.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ce que j'ai? 0:58:30.934 --> 0:58:42.684 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah ouais, je Love les amène you got à Breaking and the muséums you got the University you can Access just about and voilà. 0:58:47.814 --> 0:58:48.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Okay? 0:58:49.454 --> 0:58:49.694 Philippe Alain Paradis Bien. 0:58:48.994 --> 0:58:50.294 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK, merci beaucoup. 0:58:50.864 --> 0:58:53.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oui, à moins encore, il te lâche bye. 0:58:53.544 --> 0:58:53.794 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Merci 0:58:53.384 --> 0:58:53.994 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais ouais. 0:58:59.104 --> 0:58:59.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Course. 0:59:1.814 --> 0:59:2.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard aurevior. 0:58:59.94 --> 0:59:3.294 Transcription Translation Philippe Alain Paradis OK, let's start. 0:0:34.270 --> 0:0:34.730 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK. 0:0:39.740 --> 0:0:50.240 Shaza El Hajj Hassan I'll say the main survey, and then I'll ask a few questions. 0:0:51.100 --> 0:1:1.900 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music and an automobile-driven consumer culture created a more integrated North American popular culture. Ottawa was a bilingual institution, and we want to better understand how Anglophones and Francophones related to each other. 0:1:1.940 --> 0:1:3.980 Shaza El Hajj Hassan There were fewer electronic devices in Canadian society in the 1970s. How was your free time structured, or what did students at the University of Ottawa do for fun in the 1970s? 0:1:45.500 --> 0:1:46.430 Pierre-Paul Brassard In 1970, when I wanted to talk to my boss on the phone, I called him. 0:3:15.364 --> 0:3:20.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard There were no answering machines in those days, there were secretaries, the secretary took the message. 0:3:21.734 --> 0:3:32.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Uh, in the history department, for example, if you wanted to talk to your teacher, Ben, there was someone who took the message and sent him a paper that said Ben call so-and-so back. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) 0:3:34.454 --> 0:3:52.424 Pierre-Paul Brassard As for leisure activities, it was, as I said, much simpler. We followed a lot of Ciné cinema in France, among others, American cinema as well, blockbusters - the expression didn't exist at the time - cinemascope and color films. 0:3:54.294 --> 0:3:56.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard That was before IMAX. 0:3:56.594 --> 0:3:58.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard IMAX came along in the years. 0:4:0.174 --> 0:4:1.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard 90, I'd say. 0:4:3.834 --> 0:4:6.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard But cinemascope was there. 0:4:6.734 --> 0:4:14.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Well, the big hullabaloo was defeat. The screens were wider, the colors were better defined. 0:4:14.764 --> 0:4:19.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard The sound was better, but everything at the time, without falling into the. 0:4:21.714 --> 0:4:23.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard The technical details, the. 0:4:24.104 --> 0:4:26.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Digital doesn't exist. 0:4:26.874 --> 0:4:27.84 Philippe Alain Paradis So. 0:4:26.474 --> 0:4:29.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Everything was recorded in analog format. 0:4:31.34 --> 0:4:33.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard And telephone communications were made where? 0:4:33.684 --> 0:4:36.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Telegraph by analog wave OK. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) 0:4:36.694 --> 0:4:41.214 Philippe Alain Paradis So, just for fun, as your friends used to call it, you're going to see some movies. 0:4:42.544 --> 0:4:42.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah. 0:4:44.534 --> 0:4:50.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard When I was in university, I was married because I hadn't been able to do my master's degree. 0:4:50.164 --> 0:4:51.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard My father had died. 0:4:51.164 --> 0:4:59.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard I was, I was 15, there were 10 of us in the family, so we all went to private college or university. 0:4:59.414 --> 0:5:9.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard When he passed away, so I did a bachelor's degree, finished the bachelor's degree and overdid the bachelor's degree in pedagogy, I started working in Toronto to learn English. 0:5:9.964 --> 0:5:22.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK I don't speak a word of English so I took a job teaching French as a 2nd language because the 70's as you mentioned earlier, Sacha, were the years of bilingualism. 0:5:22.44 --> 0:5:23.824 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pierre Trudeau was in power. 0:5:25.814 --> 0:5:41.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard It was a time when there was talk of separatism in Quebec, but Francophones began to want to take up more room in Canada, and so English Canada's response. 0:5:43.484 --> 0:5:48.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard What was then called rock, the Rest of Canada, sign from Québec. 0:5:43.484 --> 0:5:48.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard What we used to call rock, Rest of Canada, sign from Québec. 0:5:48.604 --> 0:5:54.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, rock's answer was Ah, we're going to start learning French. 0:5:56.244 --> 0:6:9.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard Particularly in Ottawa, the government is bilingual, meaning that there are hundreds and hundreds of public servants at all levels of the hierarchy who have started to learn the language. 0:6:11.554 --> 0:6:19.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard As with any major change, because it was a major change at the time for Ontario, so there was a tradition. 0:6:21.74 --> 0:6:25.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah, it's well established to learn French for highly educated people. 0:6:25.544 --> 0:6:43.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard As a matter of fact, in Toronto, in Ottawa, in the rest of Canada, when young people were doing a university level Bach and Master's, they usually came to do a year, either in Quebec City, Laval University or in Montreal. 0:6:46.664 --> 0:6:56.714 Pierre-Paul Brassard It was more or less the same tradition in French Canada, and I went to learn English because my father told us, at a very young age, to learn English for life, to be able to function. 0:6:56.954 --> 0:7:1.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard So long before bilingualism became a kind of de de, of rules. 0:7:3.994 --> 0:7:14.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Seen from Montreal and Quebec City, even seen from Ottawa, there was a lot of resistance, but in a passing way. 0:7:14.124 --> 0:7:19.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yes, we never made it clear that we didn't want to take French. 0:7:19.274 --> 0:7:20.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard We had expressions. 0:7:20.484 --> 0:7:22.534 Pierre-Paul Brassard Don't worry about it if you have French. 0:7:22.954 --> 0:7:26.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard There are, as I said the other day, there are even 3-year-olds. 0:7:26.94 --> 0:7:37.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard You speak French and your teeth won't fall out because y en AY had resistance equivalent to that of Quebec, which doesn't want to learn English. 0:7:37.874 --> 0:7:42.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard There was quite a lot of passive resistance, refusing to do it at all. 0:7:44.784 --> 0:7:48.344 Philippe Alain Paradis On campus, were there places as popular as you? 0:7:48.354 --> 0:7:53.474 Philippe Alain Paradis Like on the University of Ottawa campus, there are popular places where you go with your friends. 0:8:2.974 --> 0:8:3.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Yes. 0:7:55.274 --> 0:8:5.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard I did a master's degree and we weren't on campus. The Faculty of Education at the time was on Brown Street. 0:8:7.184 --> 0:8:8.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Uh. 0:8:9.284 --> 0:8:9.514 Philippe Alain Paradis Yes. 0:8:8.704 --> 0:8:9.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard Going up the hill. 0:8:9.604 --> 0:8:19.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard There's one I don't know if it's still there today, so I did the master's in night school and summer school. 0:8:21.724 --> 0:8:32.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard When I finished my master's degree, my teachers, the dean's son, told me Brassard, you should come and do a doctorate with us, and I said no thanks. 0:8:33.154 --> 0:8:41.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard A young man had had enough of studying on airplanes, then during my summer and Christmas vacations, because I did my master's in the evening. 0:8:42.644 --> 0:8:46.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Session 72 73. 0:8:46.534 --> 0:8:51.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard I teach at Algonquin College during the day and I was doing my classes. 0:8:51.904 --> 0:9:2.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard 45 credits, 2 times 3h during the the, fall winter evenings, the, midway through master's degree. 0:9:2.274 --> 0:9:11.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard It took a year and a half full-time, halfway through the master's program, I got a job offer. 0:9:11.404 --> 0:9:27.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard TV Ontario in Toronto, at the time, it was called Ontario educational communication Theory which became TV à à and later TFO, the French television of Ontario. Err. 0:9:29.234 --> 0:9:37.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard And my boss said to me at the time, listen, you're on your own, I said, listen, I want to finish my master's, so I'll need some time. 0:9:37.794 --> 0:9:40.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard At some point, during the summer, the whole thing. 0:9:41.274 --> 0:9:46.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard He said, Ah, listen, we're paying your tuition, you're going to the University of Toronto. 0:9:48.294 --> 0:9:52.864 Philippe Alain Paradis So I guess you didn't have much time to get me out with night classes and all. 0:9:53.104 --> 0:9:56.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Well, no, we didn't have time to do a lot of leisure activities. 0:9:56.944 --> 0:10:4.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard Back then, we used to go to the movies, Ben, when I came in the summer to complete the 2nd part of my master's degree. 0:10:4.764 --> 0:10:12.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard So, being in Toronto, I had 3 weeks of vacation per year and my montario test gave me the other 3 weeks. 0:10:13.834 --> 0:10:20.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard Okay so 6 weeks in the summer full time, it took me 3 steps to complete, but at the time, I was married. 0:10:20.904 --> 0:10:28.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard I had a girlfriend and, well, we went camping, leisure activities were much less important than they are today. 0:10:28.704 --> 0:10:30.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard Today, you live on screens? 0:10:32.544 --> 0:10:32.994 Pierre-Paul Brassard That's it. 0:10:34.964 --> 0:10:35.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard To give you an idea. 0:10:35.754 --> 0:10:40.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Average television viewing in Quebec in the '70s was pretty high. 0:10:40.764 --> 0:10:51.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard There were a lot of people who listened to a lot of television, like 25, 20 6 hours a week during the fall, winter and spring seasons. In the summer, everything shut down. 0:10:52.164 --> 0:10:56.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard People went fishing at the beach, camping, canoeing. 0:10:57.244 --> 0:11:3.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Then when the weather wasn't good, well, we'd go to the movies or see if there wasn't a good movie on TV, but it was it was peripheral, it wasn't there. 0:11:5.324 --> 0:11:6.274 Philippe Alain Paradis We, without that. 0:11:3.854 --> 0:11:8.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard It wasn't ultra present like always like now. 0:11:8.244 --> 0:11:13.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard So, to meet like we do now, people would see each other. 0:11:15.614 --> 0:11:21.104 Philippe Alain Paradis Yeah, we did a lot of that too, like when I was a kid, I did a lot of camping tomorrow, then fishing, then kayaking. 0:11:21.114 --> 0:11:22.274 Philippe Alain Paradis Then everything, yeah. 0:11:22.324 --> 0:11:25.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard And even adult, but even even. 0:11:25.444 --> 0:11:29.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Less these days, but all my childhood, I, I did that. 0:11:29.834 --> 0:11:30.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah. 0:11:29.914 --> 0:11:32.564 Philippe Alain Paradis But the in. 0:11:34.554 --> 0:11:34.654 Philippe Alain Paradis So. 0:11:35.94 --> 0:11:35.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah. 0:11:36.644 --> 0:11:39.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Anglophones and francophones, they? 0:11:41.224 --> 0:11:48.544 Philippe Alain Paradis Is there what there is in the same races, often, like in your courses, were you often with people who were like bilingual or or Anglophones too? 0:11:51.534 --> 0:11:52.84 Philippe Alain Paradis Yes. 0:11:49.744 --> 0:11:52.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard On campus, you mean no là là? 0:11:52.564 --> 0:11:59.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard At the time, the faculty of education that I knew in 60 10 11 12 13, it was French, it's not, it was francophone. 0:12:0.134 --> 0:12:2.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard By the way, the term francophone didn't exist. 0:12:2.204 --> 0:12:6.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard I hate that term because it's a way of the French. 0:12:6.764 --> 0:12:11.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard To say that we don't really speak French, it sounds like French-speaking French. 0:12:11.584 --> 0:12:12.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard That's what it means. 0:12:13.214 --> 0:12:13.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:12:13.214 --> 0:12:16.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Franco faune are French. 0:12:17.44 --> 0:12:18.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard It's not the French language. 0:12:19.724 --> 0:12:19.964 Philippe Alain Paradis No? 0:12:20.424 --> 0:12:27.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard By the way, when I worked in Europe later on, I worked in Paris, I don't mind pissing off the French and telling them no, I'm not a francophone, I'm a French American. 0:12:29.404 --> 0:12:36.894 Philippe Alain Paradis I've been to Paris, too, and I've gotten some weird attitudes when I try to speak to them in French, one. 0:12:35.374 --> 0:12:39.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah, exactly, when you're, it's their way, you know. 0:12:41.794 --> 0:12:50.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard It's a sneaky way of saying, you're not French, you're Francophones. 0:12:49.694 --> 0:12:52.154 Philippe Alain Paradis Yeah yeah, they want more validation like that. 0:12:50.554 --> 0:12:54.534 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, and these are the fights I had when I was on TV 5. 0:12:54.544 --> 0:12:57.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard But that's after the period you want to look at in your. 0:12:57.954 --> 0:13:6.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard In the '60s and 11121314 where I used to go to Ottawa in the summer, where I used to teach Ottawa. 0:13:8.64 --> 0:13:18.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard It was the years of bilingualism, it was the Pierre Trudeau years, it was the tramway university campus was much more French francophone than it is now, I think. 0:13:20.944 --> 0:13:32.714 Pierre-Paul Brassard I see that, for example, everything you send out is in English, which I looked at a little bit in your project there, at the meka Oh by the way y avait des francophones dans le temps. 0:13:32.724 --> 0:13:33.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard Today? 0:13:33.114 --> 0:13:37.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Hui, the English speakers have signed up, then Utopia, it's English that's in the lead. 0:13:38.214 --> 0:13:43.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard I don't know what is the proportion of francophone students in Ottawa at your university? 0:13:44.4 --> 0:13:48.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard But when I was there, as I say, education was all in French. 0:13:48.664 --> 0:13:56.834 Pierre-Paul Brassard Medicine too, there were courses in English or, but it was about 50 50, but that, I couldn't confirm. 0:14:1.454 --> 0:14:1.814 Philippe Alain Paradis Certainly. 0:13:57.4 --> 0:14:13.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard It might be interesting research for you to check that out, but the proportion of French at the University of Ottawa, which was founded by the Oblates, was OK in the '35s, '40s, during the war, I think, or before? 0:14:17.964 --> 0:14:18.94 Philippe Alain Paradis One. 0:14:14.514 --> 0:14:26.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard Made that it spoke French there are still francophones there, at the level of rectors, deans and all that, but I didn't have a course in English at the University of Ottawa, Okay? 0:14:26.254 --> 0:14:26.824 Philippe Alain Paradis I'll just. 0:14:29.294 --> 0:14:33.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Summarize a bit of what you've said so far for her, so she'll know a bit. 0:14:38.534 --> 0:14:42.24 Philippe Alain Paradis Cinema, imbecile, Dead Night, classes. 0:14:44.444 --> 0:14:48.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Four de éducation for teachers collège. 0:14:51.354 --> 0:14:53.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Campus movies. 0:14:58.174 --> 0:15:2.904 Philippe Alain Paradis But generally very busy work and especially my uncle. 0:15:2.914 --> 0:15:12.774 Philippe Alain Paradis The same thing is him it was School focus, un aster francophones anglophones exclusive in french. 0:15:14.374 --> 0:15:17.754 Philippe Alain Paradis The french sidè of you, un. 0:15:19.734 --> 0:15:21.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Well. 0:15:22.284 --> 0:15:24.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Uh is that too? 0:15:23.384 --> 0:15:26.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ohh de cette de cette work Now you courses? 0:15:26.304 --> 0:15:28.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard So one English here's the kid. 0:15:28.634 --> 0:15:33.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Example yo Yo y est, you're giving a history faculty. 0:15:34.344 --> 0:15:35.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y aura le English charlatan. 0:15:35.994 --> 0:15:38.434 Philippe Alain Paradis No, you register in either English or French. 0:15:38.444 --> 0:15:44.704 Philippe Alain Paradis Then each course, there's like an English version, a French version that you take the room there, the one you're going to go in. 0:15:45.4 --> 0:15:51.344 Philippe Alain Paradis Me, I take a mix of the 2 with bilingual sleeping arrangements, I can take any course, so like half my courses are in French and half are in English. 0:15:51.444 --> 0:15:52.504 Philippe Alain Paradis But that's all it was. 0:15:51.604 --> 0:15:54.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Knowing t school in Kosovo, English. 0:15:58.694 --> 0:15:59.624 Philippe Alain Paradis Alors you Dead? 0:16:0.974 --> 0:16:1.324 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oh. 0:16:2.774 --> 0:16:3.44 Philippe Alain Paradis AMD. 0:16:4.744 --> 0:16:5.204 Shaza El Hajj Hassan There are these 2. 0:16:5.884 --> 0:16:8.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK date, it's important. 0:16:8.774 --> 0:16:12.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Because of you going back in Fifty years behind? 0:16:14.244 --> 0:16:15.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des. 0:16:18.24 --> 0:16:23.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Situation was not the Today for example in Quebec was, uh. 0:16:23.924 --> 0:16:40.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard And French parking canadiens en Ontario and New Brunswick Whitby about twenty twenty Nine persons of the World population soul de Power base was the World More exchanges and was today. 0:16:40.664 --> 0:16:54.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard Go to you get the impression of Ontario that okay that's another country, then Québec we don't want to match bordât we don't bother PAF, puis want to and the feeling the same on the sidè of the River. 0:16:56.254 --> 0:17:6.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non Dieu we will your and contact and that with more and more, and that's what you Ve got the most is that? 0:17:9.144 --> 0:17:9.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard Amine. 0:17:10.994 --> 0:17:20.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Story of Canada, la lune Desberg and people Ontario Waligo West Or tout Vancouver wigo South. 0:17:21.24 --> 0:17:23.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Me, I'm going, eyes, come from American culture, cultural. 0:17:24.294 --> 0:17:33.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Match, Ah bon **** from North **** from Media org totally way from your questions and so. 0:17:36.14 --> 0:17:42.104 Philippe Alain Paradis Another question, it's a little different, but what does the student body think of the war in Vietnam? 0:17:46.104 --> 0:17:46.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah. 0:17:44.134 --> 0:17:46.384 Philippe Alain Paradis Yes, how in general, like opinion. 0:17:48.34 --> 0:17:55.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard La le le la guerre du Vietnam if you want the opinion of francophones at the time. 0:17:57.264 --> 0:17:57.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh yeah? 0:17:54.614 --> 0:18:1.564 Philippe Alain Paradis Yeah, well, students in general that you've seen, like in your day, people your age thinking about war? 0:18:1.344 --> 0:18:6.194 Pierre-Paul Brassard Well, listen, we had, it was the Flower Power years. 0:18:6.234 --> 0:18:9.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, Uh, we had we had? 0:18:11.914 --> 0:18:18.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tiroir no concern about Vietnam we were sorry for the americans Origins at ****** of the World. 0:18:18.574 --> 0:18:24.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard Many draft dodgers like your Heart, I'm leading. 0:18:24.94 --> 0:18:26.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard A Toronto where you had so Montréal? 0:18:27.444 --> 0:18:43.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Uh, ideas Study Or come to work and uh underworld I believed understanding that coming from the stage, the Kids that I want to Go to fight and yet Nam des Windows run after Day. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) 0:18:45.494 --> 0:18:45.924 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:18:46.74 --> 0:18:46.324 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Mais. 0:18:45.524 --> 0:18:47.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, Euh. 0:18:48.334 --> 0:18:49.784 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah enfin oui. 0:18:49.794 --> 0:18:57.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Work concern est c'est un Bloody War Man avec le point de combat over and play. 0:18:59.724 --> 0:19:21.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et toi speed et me vois moi, voire de bad girlfriend et having fun et Android Life bâcler et soda, yamine des de World of Heart again, because of more Limited Access from the Media from outside and outside Canada. 0:19:22.224 --> 0:19:32.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Nous étions beaucoup plus concentrés avec hère avec ce qui se passait hère Park was important baseball left because we are surmonté TV. 0:19:32.684 --> 0:19:39.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais, je n'ai dans le football Popular as American football, Wonderful still the case. 0:19:41.484 --> 0:20:1.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard De french Movies and English Canadian cinéma, wase Rising in the World, some interesting Project and télévision production voisin important CBCCTV à l'époque de corson et Montréal will and. 0:20:3.214 --> 0:20:9.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est pourquoi je veux à avec à Background in education aller travailler à TV Ontario. Traduit avec www.DeepL.com/Translator (version gratuite) 0:20:11.84 --> 0:20:24.864 Pierre-Paul Brassard No, uh, you've seen interio base One of the world's model television networks, at the time it was the first officially bilingual dentarium creator institution. 0:20:26.724 --> 0:20:43.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard That the state of Nineteen Sixty, Eight Seven Seven, Eight others like that with the Ontario Institute for studies in education after OISI willy-cat UFTT. 0:20:45.154 --> 0:20:46.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard Are dates. 0:20:46.234 --> 0:20:54.824 Pierre-Paul Brassard Why when I teach French and there but with a taste for. 0:20:56.364 --> 0:21:0.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Movie, cinema and go to embroidery, what not? 0:21:0.714 --> 0:21:8.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard End of discovering the world Go, Let's Go and World and the open post and I got the first one. 0:21:8.994 --> 0:21:9.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Err. 0:21:10.564 --> 0:21:33.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard Consultant job french picking, fort de french picking School, you and lantero to bring and television 12, somme t shirt training que Dior rage I was about you rage parti was you know I hate de de training for and the type that was very different, Contexts and Today. 0:21:36.44 --> 0:21:36.284 Shaza El Hajj Hassan What's up? 0:21:36.124 --> 0:21:44.44 Philippe Alain Paradis In the '60s, rock and roll artists encouraged various forms of protest. 0:21:44.204 --> 0:21:52.854 Philippe Alain Paradis What was your parents' opinion of rock and roll? Was it like a rebellion movement or just one of different kinds of music? 0:22:3.764 --> 0:22:4.164 Philippe Alain Paradis I've got it. 0:22:14.524 --> 0:22:15.204 Philippe Alain Paradis No? 0:22:20.194 --> 0:22:22.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Oh OK Thomas, OK. 0:22:26.684 --> 0:22:27.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah OK? 0:22:28.324 --> 0:22:30.854 Philippe Alain Paradis Because you heard my last question, did it cut out before? 0:22:31.784 --> 0:22:33.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard Yeah, you're talking. 0:22:33.44 --> 0:22:35.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard In the '60s or artists? 0:22:35.464 --> 0:22:41.684 Philippe Alain Paradis Yeah, in the '60s, rock and roll was encouraging various forms of protest. 0:22:41.814 --> 0:22:45.254 Philippe Alain Paradis Do you consider rock and roll to be a movement? 0:22:45.264 --> 0:22:48.94 Philippe Alain Paradis Rebellion as simply a form of popular music? 0:22:51.264 --> 0:23:0.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard It was in French Canada, it was something that religion didn't allow, but religion was going downhill. 0:23:0.934 --> 0:23:5.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard So we made an English compromise. 0:23:5.354 --> 0:23:7.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si tu veux, on on, on. 0:23:9.104 --> 0:23:15.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard On aime le rock'n'Roll, on quand on décide et qu'on faisait une partie, on faisait une partie pédagogique. 0:23:16.604 --> 0:23:18.994 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, sauter pareil, t'as pas bien correctement. 0:23:17.994 --> 0:23:20.324 Pierre-Paul Brassard On demande à quoi on demande pas la permission. 0:23:20.334 --> 0:23:22.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Puis nos parents s'organisent pour faire d'autres choses. 0:23:23.754 --> 0:23:27.674 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, ça y avait pas ça, mais il s'arrangeait, genre. 0:23:26.864 --> 0:23:32.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ben Ben je dois dire pour y avait probablement le feeling que j'ai maintenant quand j'entends du. 0:23:34.834 --> 0:23:38.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Du bruit qui qui est qui ressemble à de la musique? 0:23:38.664 --> 0:23:42.164 Pierre-Paul Brassard Aujourd'hui, c'était pas, c'était une autre époque, et toi? 0:23:42.174 --> 0:23:47.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je verrai, mais le, le rock and roll was very popular in Québec. 0:23:49.804 --> 0:23:51.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un prof avait that? 0:23:51.124 --> 0:24:1.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard Many many musicians start-up vers écouter tout by the de Redmond and right to Song in french show show that. 0:24:4.34 --> 0:24:13.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sans modem bento, R and Broad, rock and roll to Friends and the French washing, why do the only One who will rock? 0:24:14.634 --> 0:24:20.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard L'industrie doit the more ta, ta ta, ta mort organisé french touch non you? 0:24:20.654 --> 0:24:22.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard À la question sharia. 0:24:22.874 --> 0:24:27.434 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Certains voient de la culture des jeunes des années 1970, on corrigeait la plus Rise de drogues récréatives. 0:24:36.464 --> 0:24:44.214 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Dans quelle mesure les drogues récréatives était elle disponible sur le campus dans les années 1970? 0:24:46.814 --> 0:24:50.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard Excuse magasin get what was available on a campus in the seventies. 0:24:50.444 --> 0:24:57.594 Philippe Alain Paradis Des des drogues récréatives comme est-ce que est-ce que t'as vu beaucoup de drogues, pas de toi comme toi même, mais comme as-tu vu d'autres gens? 0:24:57.604 --> 0:24:58.884 Philippe Alain Paradis Beaucoup non plus. 0:24:58.144 --> 0:25:1.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors non, t'as choisi la marijuana? 0:25:1.164 --> 0:25:3.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais, pas pleur in Toronto. 0:25:7.294 --> 0:25:16.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une endroit I don't remember One maybe two couple of parties but it was a very much undercover et twas criminal. 0:25:17.564 --> 0:25:28.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et Twas Dan and Université Kids with students that with à work taking chances litterary to be high kick out. 0:25:29.864 --> 0:25:34.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh off campus Or Simply. 0:25:36.274 --> 0:25:40.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard By de parents et 3 expenses. 0:25:43.214 --> 0:25:46.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard I never both myself I had à couple of joint joint. 0:25:48.774 --> 0:25:51.144 Pierre-Paul Brassard Voilà, Roger tu rentres en Bretagne? 0:25:51.184 --> 0:25:52.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Marijuana, rose something that. 0:25:55.514 --> 0:25:58.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'ai 3 note accepté d'y être accepté Ford. 0:26:0.994 --> 0:26:6.264 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur star stable présent, mais c'était pas accepté, vraiment, c'était, c'était illégal. 0:26:6.274 --> 0:26:7.504 Philippe Alain Paradis Puis il fallait garder ça comme. 0:26:9.714 --> 0:26:10.84 Philippe Alain Paradis Bien. 0:26:8.214 --> 0:26:18.14 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je t'écris minel ouais Ouais carrément, c'était le, c'était de la, c'était de de, c'était de la, de la de sous couvert sous match, de débrouiller, hein? 0:26:18.54 --> 0:26:18.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un destin? 0:26:18.674 --> 0:26:22.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, une September late octobre, septembre. 0:26:23.4 --> 0:26:31.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard R you have rage from the OPP and Québec police into corn Fields. 0:26:32.734 --> 0:26:36.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Where des des. 0:26:41.84 --> 0:26:41.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Ou. 0:26:37.644 --> 0:26:51.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bike bike **** with growth and to confine it because it was allowed and the cornfield and Unknown laisse paraître with à White à helicopter plan. 0:26:52.724 --> 0:26:52.994 Philippe Alain Paradis Pour. 0:26:54.34 --> 0:26:57.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Au revoir et le bouquin very Quick les Verts ouais non? 0:26:57.214 --> 0:27:0.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Also in the US that we had very good quality. 0:27:6.474 --> 0:27:18.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sont dans une des seventies, airy of course **** drugs, the World vers Little first time of season, une église voisine, BC, une Vancouver. 0:27:19.294 --> 0:27:19.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Voilà. 0:27:19.884 --> 0:27:21.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Vers 3h comme il faut agir of course. 0:27:24.934 --> 0:27:32.954 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans les 70, il parlait beaucoup du TRIP et les prises des 5 à Dax pour atteindre un état de conscience supérieur. 0:27:34.434 --> 0:27:38.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans quelle mesure les étudiants du campus consommaient des hallucinogènes? 0:27:39.654 --> 0:27:40.154 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est, c'est. 0:27:41.64 --> 0:27:42.764 Pierre-Paul Brassard To my horloger, never say nothing. 0:27:43.34 --> 0:27:44.274 Philippe Alain Paradis OK, c'était pas aussi populaire. 0:27:46.14 --> 0:27:47.164 Philippe Alain Paradis Non, sauf. 0:27:45.34 --> 0:27:49.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, la note est en éducation in Wall Street, Hein? 0:27:49.424 --> 0:27:54.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Maybe and I don't know and low médecine Or Engineering. 0:27:55.554 --> 0:27:55.874 Philippe Alain Paradis Bien. 0:27:56.14 --> 0:27:57.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard Explorer département I don't know. 0:28:0.634 --> 0:28:5.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non, dans l'Oise, vert et vert et les méthodes de taille. 0:28:8.164 --> 0:28:8.344 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:28:8.994 --> 0:28:9.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non mais oui. 0:28:12.134 --> 0:28:17.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mon peuple World drinking un courageusement et une fashion. 0:28:19.764 --> 0:28:25.24 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK, merci, on nous allons passer à la section 2 de de l'interview. 0:28:27.94 --> 0:28:51.404 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Question principale numéro un, les les historiens de la culture ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'il appelle le féminisme, de la 2e vague, à savoir que dans le cadre du mouvement de la Contreculture, les thèmes de de début des années 1970, on cherchait à à briser des barrières entre le ****. 0:28:51.644 --> 0:28:52.794 Shaza El Hajj Hassan C'est argument raisonné. 0:28:52.804 --> 0:28:59.544 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Utile avec votre expérience sur le campus de l'université d'Ottawa au début des années 1970. 0:29:4.894 --> 0:29:8.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Comme je te dis, nous, on n'était plus au niveau de la maîtrise. 0:29:8.794 --> 0:29:10.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Les étudiants étaient plus âgés, hein? 0:29:11.424 --> 0:29:14.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il y en avait plusieurs mois de mes confrères à à la maîtrise. 0:29:14.894 --> 0:29:19.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard En tout cas, l'été ou les les, les, les cours de soirée qui étaient mariés. 0:29:20.794 --> 0:29:23.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Plusieurs avait une petite famille, un, 2 enfants. 0:29:24.434 --> 0:29:38.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moi, je me suis marié à la fin de ma maîtrise, je vais une girl friend tout le long des études, de sorte que on avait moins de de vie sur le campus, comme vous autres, par exemple Aujourd hui? 0:29:39.344 --> 0:29:41.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Parce que vous êtes plus jeunes, OK? 0:29:42.984 --> 0:29:48.944 Pierre-Paul Brassard À l'époque, on terminait un bac à l'âge de 19 20, vingt-et-un ans. 0:29:49.994 --> 0:29:52.94 Pierre-Paul Brassard Niveau maîtrise, on s'y rendait. 0:29:52.104 --> 0:29:54.484 Pierre-Paul Brassard 25 26 30 30 35. 0:29:54.534 --> 0:30:8.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Certains le faisaient plus tard, alors comme on disait au début, la vie était beaucoup plus dure à gagner, on était moins riche, y avait beaucoup moins d'argent circulation. 0:30:8.224 --> 0:30:15.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Maintenant, vous autres, présentement, vous avez tous des cartes de crédit, probablement y a un de car pour les une radio car. 0:30:17.724 --> 0:30:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et you have surfonds another shit and your University cost, à fortune to your parents sur to yourself. 0:30:27.114 --> 0:30:32.554 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, because durant Londres débordera help? 0:30:32.564 --> 0:30:33.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Est-ce que c'est un watt? 0:30:33.594 --> 0:30:43.404 Pierre-Paul Brassard North date de note existe, un One was going to University 3 mois sur le time money that you had worked very **** to to Heart. 0:30:44.624 --> 0:30:52.724 Philippe Alain Paradis Sao c'était trop comme occupé pour, comme pour sa préoccuper avec des mouvements comme le féminisme. 0:30:52.734 --> 0:30:53.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Genre, c'est tout ça que. 0:31:1.814 --> 0:31:2.174 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:30:54.684 --> 0:31:2.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bon, ça ça wow, ça, c'était quelque chose qui était nouveau le féminisme. 0:31:2.294 --> 0:31:4.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais dans les années 70, attends une minute. 0:31:9.804 --> 0:31:10.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:31:6.624 --> 0:31:15.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est plus les années 4 vingts 85 90 ou c'est venu mainstream y avait je pense hein? 0:31:15.484 --> 0:31:17.4 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y avait quand même quelques. 0:31:19.934 --> 0:31:22.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Jeune sur le campus, qui était féministe, mais. 0:31:25.114 --> 0:31:28.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était pas quelque chose qui se discutait ou qui faisait partie. 0:31:28.934 --> 0:31:34.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si tu veux des préoccupations, là par exemple dans les médias, dans les journaux de temps en temps. 0:31:34.534 --> 0:31:39.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et puis il pouvait y avoir un article mais mais en tout cas, peut-être que j'ai manqué des bouts. 0:31:40.744 --> 0:31:45.324 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, c'est juste un sujet très populaire de mon expérience alors OK. 0:31:40.804 --> 0:31:50.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard On a absolument pas, absolument pas, c'est les les, les les années 70, c'était les années ou les femmes découvrent la pilule. 0:31:52.84 --> 0:31:52.484 Philippe Alain Paradis Hum. 0:31:52.584 --> 0:32:5.994 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, donc l'émancipation ******** était beaucoup une nouvelle pratique, par exemple vivre en couple sans mariée, c'était quelque chose qui arrivait. 0:32:6.4 --> 0:32:7.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était nouveau, wow. 0:32:7.124 --> 0:32:9.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était intéressant parce que y en a qui en ont profité longtemps. 0:32:11.364 --> 0:32:11.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais. 0:32:13.384 --> 0:32:22.684 Pierre-Paul Brassard La la LA, le le, les questions du féminisme sont venues plus tard parce que justement, ce que ce que la la pilule à fait, c'est que ça a donné beaucoup plus de dépendance aux femmes. 0:32:23.994 --> 0:32:28.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y a eu tout d'un coup beaucoup plus de femmes sur les campus universitaires. 0:32:28.54 --> 0:32:42.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Avant ça, c'était très très mal, hein, c'était pour toutes les raisons qu'on dit pour, à cause des coûts à cause des rôles à cause de de parce que les femmes étaient moins indépendantes tout soudainement, ils sont devenus beaucoup plus indépendantes. 0:32:43.654 --> 0:32:52.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK et en éducation, c'est intéressant parce que justement à la faculté y avait toujours eu beaucoup de femmes. 0:32:54.614 --> 0:32:55.794 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, ça fait du sens. 0:32:53.904 --> 0:32:56.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK donc. 0:32:58.114 --> 0:33:0.14 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ça, les honneurs de pas trop, le féminisme. 0:33:0.774 --> 0:33:8.624 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais donc il me semble que peut-être t'as vu beaucoup des effets genre comme t'as vu la pilule, commencer des coups comme non mariés. 0:33:8.634 --> 0:33:9.844 Philippe Alain Paradis T'as vu certaines? 0:33:9.854 --> 0:33:13.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Certaines des effets du mouvement du féminisme, peut-être que ça a pas été autant parlé, mais. 0:33:13.864 --> 0:33:19.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oui, on a vu arriver les quais aussi, c'était la la, les commençait à sortir des placards. 0:33:19.334 --> 0:33:30.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le, les homosexuels commencent à c'était pas un scandale que de savoir que, surtout dans le dans le domaine où je travaillais, contrario des des des homosexuels, y en avait beaucoup. 0:33:31.374 --> 0:33:40.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh, on trouvait ça pénible par bout de travailler avec les autres quand on fait bouger, mais en tout cas il y a, il y a la diversité commençait à émerger. 0:33:40.594 --> 0:33:45.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Effectivement, et c'est quelque chose qui qui était accepté de plus en plus. 0:33:45.374 --> 0:33:55.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais encore une fois, dans les milieux universitaires, dans les milieux des médias, mais dans le en général, c'était pas quelque chose qui était très, très, très. 0:33:55.894 --> 0:34:0.234 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ma mère était quand elle entendait les histoires comme ça. 0:34:1.934 --> 0:34:2.934 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur l'étape handboard. 0:34:3.834 --> 0:34:4.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non non, non non. 0:34:4.904 --> 0:34:9.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et c'est normal, c'est normal parce que leur univers était était complètement changé. 0:34:11.874 --> 0:34:13.494 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais euh. 0:34:16.114 --> 0:34:16.634 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Et Ah OK. 0:34:19.174 --> 0:34:30.424 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Dans un année 1970, il y avait il des programmes, des départements ou des clubs de l'université d'Ottawa ou les femmes est étaient moins présentes et moins acceptées? 0:34:33.374 --> 0:34:35.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Moins présente tu veux dire comme étudiante ou comme prof? 0:34:36.994 --> 0:34:46.924 Philippe Alain Paradis En général, vraiment, comme il y avait tu des places, soit comme dans des situations sociales où professionnelles où over ou ce que t'as vu que les femmes étaient comme étaient moins là ou moins acceptées. 0:34:49.474 --> 0:34:49.754 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:34:47.884 --> 0:34:51.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pas en éducation, en éducation, t'avais du monde de partout. 0:34:52.754 --> 0:35:2.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Parce que finalement, c'était une une, une des professions avec les sciences infirmières et la médecine ou les femmes ont toujours été présentes depuis toujours. 0:35:3.424 --> 0:35:26.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard Même avant les années 70, dans les années 1900, c'était au Québec, au Canada français, puis au beaucoup en Ontario aussi, d'installer les communautés religieuses, alors, les hôpitaux et les, les écoles, c'était beaucoup les communautés religieuses que les sœurs qui s'en occupaient ou les curés. 0:35:29.174 --> 0:35:36.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ou à l'extrême que je Sacha, when you rascal, you got secondary School, parler a good time. 0:35:37.214 --> 0:35:43.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Nineteen seventy was the first year I was The Last Group of graduate at the Bachelor of arts. 0:35:44.954 --> 0:36:2.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Teach in collège classique in à Cross Québec and Ontario you had in sodefor exemple Laurentian University with choisissez affiliated tout l'avalée University with by the way se dit all the University North America. 0:36:3.34 --> 0:36:3.274 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Wow. 0:36:4.174 --> 0:36:11.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK and un des un, un date, time? 0:36:14.694 --> 0:36:24.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ilm the nineteen sixty five to seventys the éducation system in french Canada became public à. 0:36:25.314 --> 0:36:34.794 Pierre-Paul Brassard De cégep ou à créer ton junior collège, un université du Québec was created that was Seven New University campus. 0:36:36.104 --> 0:36:37.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard Created une. 0:36:37.904 --> 0:36:54.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gatineau, 3 juin hors de time One in abitibi, où on est une travers, Trois-Rivières, rimouski, chicoutimi and you had thousands of use to do and going to the University level other. 0:36:56.574 --> 0:36:56.844 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah. 0:36:59.844 --> 0:37:2.34 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Okay merci, euh. 0:37:1.714 --> 0:37:3.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'est de la révolution tranquille. 0:37:4.274 --> 0:37:5.794 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui, oui. 0:37:5.564 --> 0:37:6.14 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oui. 0:37:5.294 --> 0:37:15.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK dans what happen and to Go further behind that to understand what it had what happened that. 0:37:15.714 --> 0:37:16.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard In Ontario? 0:37:18.244 --> 0:37:35.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Éducation de tout élément the School Gréât Seven was made Mandatory, une eighteen seventy One centimeter un only in nineteen thirty date. 0:37:44.474 --> 0:37:44.704 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Non? 0:37:35.584 --> 0:37:51.394 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une Québec de Gréât 6 School, was made Mandatory before that you don't want to Go to School and Go, OK underwater, and the reason for that is not because people what interests that the. 0:37:53.364 --> 0:37:59.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Old de quand on dit et ou un fond de contre-réaction divers? 0:38:2.124 --> 0:38:3.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Or de french. 0:38:4.964 --> 0:38:14.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bourgeoisie upper class purger traders and politicians One back to France after the conquest? 0:38:16.374 --> 0:38:36.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sur dates, Wild Lord of you know de de d'y aller vite clash lors de notre agréable people ou encore hein ça we were left with a long time to learn to and keep contact that's How and in the sixties and seventies. 0:38:37.404 --> 0:38:41.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Pouf en it all came back the money coming and the schools and. 0:38:43.334 --> 0:38:43.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard Route of. 0:38:45.494 --> 0:38:47.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Richesse was created dans la balade. 0:38:48.694 --> 0:38:50.504 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Hum, Ah. 0:38:50.344 --> 0:38:57.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Son macho dating 30 years Tony five years de level of Éducation and Québec is comparable to Ontario. 0:39:1.784 --> 0:39:8.844 Philippe Alain Paradis Bon je me chemin, moi tu peux commencer 3 questions principales numéro 3, écoute. 0:39:10.494 --> 0:39:10.874 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah OK? 0:39:13.564 --> 0:39:22.444 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Il YAOK les les historiens de la culture en affirme que l'introduction de la pilule comme contraceptif. 0:39:22.514 --> 0:39:24.124 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Active la légalité. 0:39:25.734 --> 0:39:26.414 Philippe Alain Paradis L'inflation? 0:39:24.484 --> 0:39:27.894 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Légalisation, il vois. 0:39:29.164 --> 0:39:29.664 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Miam. 0:39:28.844 --> 0:39:31.124 Philippe Alain Paradis La législation et l'avortement. 0:39:31.844 --> 0:39:33.384 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Alors, Ah OK? 0:39:33.64 --> 0:39:34.904 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh Oh dans 3 abbés. 0:39:34.914 --> 0:39:42.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard One, l'avortement, c'était la loi qui était écrite par le gouvernement Trudeau. 0:39:43.684 --> 0:39:49.514 Pierre-Paul Brassard L'égalisation et qui a fait couler beaucoup d'encre, ça a été des longs débats. 0:39:49.524 --> 0:39:53.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était en fait les pros et les antis. 0:39:54.594 --> 0:39:54.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK. 0:39:55.44 --> 0:39:57.524 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais plus plus de côté social. 0:39:57.534 --> 0:40:0.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Entre vous, vos amis et juste des pères en général. 0:40:2.934 --> 0:40:7.644 Philippe Alain Paradis Ben la question c'est plus ça, on on prend, nous, on pense que ça l'a vraiment beaucoup modifié. 0:40:7.654 --> 0:40:14.874 Philippe Alain Paradis La relation entre les hommes et les femmes dans ce temps là est ce que vous ce que vous êtes en accord avec ça, ça a vraiment beaucoup changé. 0:40:14.884 --> 0:40:16.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Comment les relations spatiales dans ce temps-là? 0:40:18.944 --> 0:40:19.184 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:40:17.174 --> 0:40:22.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ça non, on parlait pas de ça, on le faisait. 0:40:24.224 --> 0:40:24.534 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:40:27.294 --> 0:40:30.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard On ne c'est comme l'amour, on en parlait pas, on le faisait. 0:40:31.614 --> 0:40:33.224 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc c'est un peu comme tabou genre. 0:40:31.684 --> 0:40:33.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était pas surtout des écrans. 0:40:33.354 --> 0:40:35.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard C'était, c'était, c'était privé. 0:40:36.814 --> 0:40:37.34 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:40:43.534 --> 0:40:43.924 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Oui. 0:40:36.654 --> 0:40:46.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh, c'était y et le débat social se faisait autour de ceux qui en faisaient la promotion, comme le docteur Morgan. 0:40:46.664 --> 0:40:48.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Tall par exemple, et World. 0:40:50.214 --> 0:40:53.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Où practicing une différence? 0:40:53.984 --> 0:41:2.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Cities in Québec un dernier One to court and the justice system point Doctor him hé, was Jail Dan Uno. 0:41:2.134 --> 0:41:7.324 Pierre-Paul Brassard Twenty years later, when out and it started again in New Brunswick countdown. 0:41:8.204 --> 0:41:10.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et finally cross. 0:41:13.234 --> 0:41:22.624 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et Hère you want à différent, very différent attitude culturali speak in between the US à and Canada that that. 0:41:24.864 --> 0:41:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des bêtes as Bean. 0:41:28.534 --> 0:41:38.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard Notre Falls roll-out road True legislator not One point and people understood in Canada. 0:41:38.294 --> 0:41:42.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le législation sert OK et c'est personal affair. 0:41:43.804 --> 0:41:44.134 Philippe Alain Paradis So. 0:41:43.864 --> 0:41:46.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Like drugs like. 0:41:48.534 --> 0:42:1.494 Pierre-Paul Brassard Homosexualité un an l'optique questions, ouais, on a public places Word et Beatles Creed, the Lord of you, now, back and forth and not too much confusion. 0:42:1.504 --> 0:42:8.154 Pierre-Paul Brassard You are against Or you are pro and then at One point the Lord camin, and that's it. 0:42:8.164 --> 0:42:18.804 Pierre-Paul Brassard I mean country to the US, à where everything years, the old thing comme job again and the pro and cons, and because there was never really. 0:42:19.244 --> 0:42:23.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et consensus et ont date d'autres questions. 0:42:23.884 --> 0:42:25.224 Pierre-Paul Brassard Do not have to. 0:42:26.764 --> 0:42:29.754 Pierre-Paul Brassard **** to be in à public place and that's famous. 0:42:31.774 --> 0:42:39.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard Answer from Pierre Elliott Trudeau a le time, the War not going to les Jeffrey the bedrooms of the kenyans. 0:42:41.474 --> 0:42:50.814 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une de ses ventes dates One at One point qui cède, OK we have a lot about that and non c'est your business, you and it. 0:42:51.434 --> 0:42:51.764 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Regarde. 0:42:52.964 --> 0:43:1.684 Philippe Alain Paradis Et un autre question, comme pour aller par le souci, à quoi ressemblaient les fréquentations à l'université d'Ottawa dans les années 70? 0:43:2.174 --> 0:43:2.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh. 0:43:6.784 --> 0:43:9.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais les filles nord-est that was the place to be. 0:43:14.664 --> 0:43:23.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah was gréât now elle est healthy and 3h et was like today. 0:43:23.274 --> 0:43:33.644 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et avec cette data again when de de Somerset Spender, I was married so just Music. 0:43:36.424 --> 0:43:37.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais, je. 0:43:39.244 --> 0:43:40.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Life Évent. 0:43:42.114 --> 0:43:47.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard Euh during academic years agacé et 3 live it again. 0:43:47.354 --> 0:44:11.434 Pierre-Paul Brassard ATT, l'éducation des adultes because that's what we were at the éducation faculty à the master level, remember you have the Choice and the master level to aider do à tissus for the grease Or Go to an exam that will last full Day with two three of your professors? OK. 0:44:13.444 --> 0:44:23.274 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'a 3 je Serious exam normal exemple where you had to demonstrate that was the Simulator, what was what we want? 0:44:23.284 --> 0:44:26.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Two sécologie management, déconnection and. 0:44:28.574 --> 0:44:29.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard Des. 0:44:31.64 --> 0:44:44.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard Question, il the time because I have The Voice Dean in in in the Group and the iasmi 100 what what you do differently et you starting your master again and roses. 0:44:44.624 --> 0:44:56.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard I did regret that not what the net full time to take advantage of the Life on the campus, the very Nice part of your study its. 0:45:0.174 --> 0:45:12.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, et avec ce comment votre génération considérait elle, la famille mariage, genre en vous les étudiants sur le campus, ils fréquentent souvent. 0:45:14.574 --> 0:45:18.144 Philippe Alain Paradis Est-ce que c'est, c'était toi, tu l'as comme touche un peu plus? 0:45:18.184 --> 0:45:22.864 Philippe Alain Paradis Un peu plus tôt, mais c'était plus acceptable de juste sortir ensemble et pas être marié, right? 0:45:23.664 --> 0:45:40.574 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ohh prochain compte yuko devanlay water woman and then you know moi tous, ouais Men at the time with the Pearl et twas the pries HI years. 0:45:40.584 --> 0:45:42.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard So, non. 0:45:44.114 --> 0:45:45.104 Pierre-Paul Brassard Robert Now. 0:45:47.14 --> 0:45:47.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une relation? 0:45:49.374 --> 0:46:7.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard And non femme, elle est One of the various data evolved since then was still Strong institution and if today, but à social How to say that. 0:46:9.824 --> 0:46:20.874 Pierre-Paul Brassard Social Life was not âge développa with OS présent because One again because of the Media de prêcher Wass. 0:46:20.884 --> 0:46:28.774 Pierre-Paul Brassard People were Doing things, the World there was last time of hall so for leisure. 0:46:29.464 --> 0:46:38.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Remember in the seventh pays normal, work we will be sur les Fifty Fifty five hours à week non Workington ify. 0:46:40.684 --> 0:46:40.894 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:46:40.334 --> 0:46:47.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK when I say that we work ****** to and the money with Gold? 0:46:49.24 --> 0:46:49.294 Philippe Alain Paradis Non? 0:46:49.764 --> 0:46:59.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard Y yoga résident réalisé which we came à when we Watch the News and so and sea of all things of the four. 0:47:2.364 --> 0:47:15.284 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, y a y a une dernière action qui est facultative complètement et je m'excuse, il faut vraiment que je Lise à partie à cause de professeurs dit que c'est c'est il faut qu'on le fasse un, ça va être la course. 0:47:15.294 --> 0:47:21.64 Philippe Alain Paradis Cette section, la section suivante est facultative et concerne la sexualité et l'harcèlement. 0:47:21.394 --> 0:47:33.974 Philippe Alain Paradis Nous sommes conscients que tout le monde ne se sentira pas à l'aise avec ces questions et nous tenons à rappeler que votre participation entièrement volontaire, vous pouvez choisir de ne pas répondre aux questions qui vous mettent à l'aise ou de sauter entièrement à cette section. 0:47:34.914 --> 0:47:35.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK. 0:47:38.154 --> 0:47:38.704 Pierre-Paul Brassard Chaude? 0:47:36.84 --> 0:47:39.454 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est que c'est correct avec OK. 0:47:41.474 --> 0:47:47.124 Philippe Alain Paradis Aujourd'hui, nombreuses universités, ont été contraintes de contrôler la recèlement ******. 0:47:47.444 --> 0:47:54.864 Philippe Alain Paradis Dans quelle mesure les autorités universitaires ont, elles, surveille les soirées et les événements sociaux pour assurer la sécurité des femmes? 0:47:57.184 --> 0:47:57.594 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK. 0:48:3.104 --> 0:48:8.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais bah dans quelle mesure règles dont hum, thinking parties and things, Big ones. 0:48:9.674 --> 0:48:19.864 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dewar some strongs Student, associations and a time that was in charge of Agathe est sur la caisse today. 0:48:20.364 --> 0:48:22.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Elle devient une charge, tu vas faire? 0:48:24.214 --> 0:48:38.184 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ils t'ont activités aux sports and what not on the campus with the présence in the Wind like a Ah board level from University Or collège okay. 0:48:40.594 --> 0:48:46.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Date, Bing One, something happen, we were Adolf Young Adult and there was. 0:48:48.444 --> 0:48:51.614 Pierre-Paul Brassard Normal behavior that Works est vraiment gay. 0:48:51.624 --> 0:48:52.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh so respect. 0:48:52.894 --> 0:49:7.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Sometimes people die more Girls of guys some time some web sites on va dire was no surveillance, c'est SMS to be today because there was bon. 0:49:7.54 --> 0:49:10.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Attention donc au retour to the script that. 0:49:12.874 --> 0:49:20.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le majority of the Soudan on campus of the time with Wood be have will not a grâce à woman to be clear. 0:49:22.244 --> 0:49:26.744 Pierre-Paul Brassard We you will not see to Girls dancing to better to guides dancing to better. 0:49:28.634 --> 0:49:31.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard De temps, une blague, non? 0:49:28.674 --> 0:49:41.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc, c'était plus les étudiants qui ont c'était plus les étudiants qui ont qui ont organisé les événements de façon que ça serait plus sécuritaire à la place d'avoir besoin de la sécurité qui vient surveiller genre. 0:49:42.544 --> 0:49:44.94 Pierre-Paul Brassard Avec d'autres membres dans. 0:49:44.484 --> 0:49:46.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais OK et? 0:49:46.174 --> 0:49:50.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Très bien aiden Live full School year on the campus. 0:49:52.534 --> 0:49:55.564 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bot Yvan in Company. 0:49:57.854 --> 0:50:14.24 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bah tant que telle par exemple pour people Drunk Love, we have fun dancing now, let your hair down as you will, c'est the time but nothing that to be Wood. Non? 0:50:15.104 --> 0:50:31.384 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, et notre génération est intéressée par un mouvement de l'amour libre qu'elle était la perception des relations ********* avant le mariage sur le campus de l'université d'Ottawa dans les années 70 était telle vue, négativement, accepté ou même encouragé. 0:50:34.904 --> 0:50:36.414 Pierre-Paul Brassard 23 personnes d'affaires. 0:50:37.554 --> 0:50:37.774 Philippe Alain Paradis OK. 0:50:37.454 --> 0:50:39.584 Pierre-Paul Brassard Forme beauté Girls and guys. 0:50:41.184 --> 0:50:48.954 Pierre-Paul Brassard D'un some of them with talk about it and we are the say that when you talk about you you you are not to be at. 0:50:53.154 --> 0:50:53.944 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, pas mal. 0:50:57.224 --> 0:51:5.544 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un de remember many years later you know in adult Life et danger much. 0:51:7.254 --> 0:51:10.734 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un garage où temps dans mon ça parlait où je l'ai, un autre. 0:51:10.594 --> 0:51:11.244 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais, t'as raison. 0:51:15.854 --> 0:51:22.554 Philippe Alain Paradis Et le membre de la génération de vos parents 5 5AT il des relations ********* avant le mariage? 0:51:24.304 --> 0:51:27.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh date quoi secret? 0:51:27.874 --> 0:51:31.504 Pierre-Paul Brassard Est fait apprend Bing, My Family. 0:51:34.954 --> 0:51:37.284 Pierre-Paul Brassard We had comment t'appelles ça? 0:51:37.294 --> 0:51:40.974 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une domestique qui s'occupait des enfants parce que on était une grosse famille. 0:51:41.434 --> 0:51:42.484 Philippe Alain Paradis Une gardienne, genre. 0:51:42.914 --> 0:51:44.454 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gardez, c'est ça. 0:51:44.714 --> 0:51:45.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Mais qui vivait à la maison? 0:51:46.674 --> 0:51:47.964 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc OK je comprends ouais. 0:51:46.104 --> 0:52:0.304 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK, et mais parents généralement, quand ils engageaient une jeune fille 1819 ans, nous on savait pas, mais c'était une fille mère, c'est une fille qui était tombée enceinte et dont personne ne voulait parler. 0:52:1.794 --> 0:52:2.634 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc on dit. 0:52:1.854 --> 0:52:11.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors, il a gardait jusqu'à temps que ça devienne le temps d'avoir le bébé et là on l'a envoyé à Montréal pour faire un accouchement, parce qu'à l'époque, c'était t'étais. 0:52:11.884 --> 0:52:13.444 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une très mauvaise femme. 0:52:13.454 --> 0:52:14.934 Pierre-Paul Brassard Si t'avais un enfant hors mariage. 0:52:15.894 --> 0:52:19.644 Philippe Alain Paradis Donc t'es dans la génération, tes parents, c'était comme donc? 0:52:19.164 --> 0:52:28.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Dans ton we will not people with Act in description and under thé of course. 0:52:28.144 --> 0:52:35.844 Pierre-Paul Brassard Religion the présence of the religion, my parents génération OK you talking nineteen thirties and forties and fifties. 0:52:38.84 --> 0:52:45.884 Pierre-Paul Brassard Where do you will hère Horror stories of woman that we have a borshan with in? 0:52:46.894 --> 0:52:58.44 Pierre-Paul Brassard Là j'ai conditions and One un Guess that with the families that bit more Word bit more affluent Or more. 0:52:58.814 --> 0:53:8.124 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une forme de de scène de de Young Women à way ider you and Québec City should Go Montréal in chicoutimi. 0:53:8.134 --> 0:53:13.634 Pierre-Paul Brassard Chez Hugo Québec seul et nobody was no way she Oh ça donnera who Montréal? 0:53:13.644 --> 0:53:15.344 Pierre-Paul Brassard Je prends le thé accueillante. 0:53:15.874 --> 0:53:22.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard And Read hear What Now two years later with à baby and put into Financial given away. 0:53:23.914 --> 0:53:26.964 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh *****, où est de Guy and. 0:53:28.904 --> 0:53:29.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une autre? 0:53:29.264 --> 0:53:29.564 Philippe Alain Paradis Et oui. 0:53:31.264 --> 0:53:31.594 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:53:31.154 --> 0:53:35.384 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bien index surtout, il y a une the old Canadian History. 0:53:37.204 --> 0:53:41.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et une french Canada where you are de voyageurs et de coureur des bois. 0:53:41.864 --> 0:53:42.724 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il veut le portable? 0:53:44.154 --> 0:53:45.24 Philippe Alain Paradis Je crois peut-être? 0:53:44.874 --> 0:53:45.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Il va? 0:53:47.974 --> 0:53:52.914 Pierre-Paul Brassard J'ai coureurs de bois ou the people to do the trapping and the third Trade OK. 0:53:51.374 --> 0:53:54.114 Philippe Alain Paradis Le oui, oui, oui, je suis dit, ça. Ouais. 0:53:54.644 --> 0:54:4.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Bon et puis on the good Reading to, il est un peu feeling of the Story of lower Canada with Québec. 0:54:5.924 --> 0:54:8.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Read le rêve de Champlain. 0:54:9.464 --> 0:54:11.4 Philippe Alain Paradis Ah OK, Ouais ouais. 0:54:10.454 --> 0:54:13.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK c'est break, c'est about that thick and. 0:54:13.504 --> 0:54:14.204 Philippe Alain Paradis On regarde. 0:54:15.824 --> 0:54:20.654 Pierre-Paul Brassard 381 by et instruit Professor at University of. 0:54:25.384 --> 0:54:25.874 Philippe Alain Paradis Mince. 0:54:23.284 --> 0:54:33.764 Pierre-Paul Brassard ****, une Boston d'un work with One of the greatest Orion in Québec City le trudel, le Louis Trudel. 0:54:35.704 --> 0:54:41.214 Pierre-Paul Brassard Hip publish de what école de Dream of champlain ou à the time was. 0:54:43.74 --> 0:54:43.674 Pierre-Paul Brassard Gare Emirates. 0:54:51.534 --> 0:54:51.714 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:54:46.874 --> 0:54:57.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard One hundred years Wars in France and came to Canada to to Québec to create à New nation and I was. 0:55:0.114 --> 0:55:21.174 Pierre-Paul Brassard Et une Fever of de des communes de de Colomb, communion de de New habitant to mix with indians, non dans des Wood the Indian woman with Wood Lake, Europeans and the Man with Trade Arthur and the Witch Exchange, Bows and. 0:55:22.864 --> 0:55:29.264 Pierre-Paul Brassard Alors ça, c'est good and Wonder baby what happen from Indian woman, but. 0:55:31.614 --> 0:55:37.144 Pierre-Paul Brassard Created by à french collant, voyageur, Or trappeur. 0:55:39.54 --> 0:55:53.374 Pierre-Paul Brassard Démo the baby des Wood Kid de format Or two and during the Winter the Wind bring back to his home and put it in à fer rap and leave it to the door and not on the door and Go away. 0:55:55.24 --> 0:55:55.514 Philippe Alain Paradis Ou. 0:55:58.684 --> 0:55:59.614 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais j'imagine. 0:55:56.544 --> 0:56:5.664 Pierre-Paul Brassard Un des Splinter stories like that the baby you know and the Family with keep the baby and not taken by beauty was was différent. 0:56:6.614 --> 0:56:12.824 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais ouais, j'ai entendu des histoires de même à travers l'histoire, mais c'est les questions. 0:56:12.864 --> 0:56:14.24 Philippe Alain Paradis C'est des questions qu'on a. 0:56:13.454 --> 0:56:14.74 Pierre-Paul Brassard Le voisin? 0:56:14.84 --> 0:56:15.694 Pierre-Paul Brassard Troisièmement, je vais leur de la bouchon. 0:56:16.814 --> 0:56:17.854 Philippe Alain Paradis Oui, oui, je. 0:56:19.154 --> 0:56:19.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard Non? 0:56:20.684 --> 0:56:20.944 Philippe Alain Paradis On. 0:56:26.674 --> 0:56:26.984 Philippe Alain Paradis Parle. 0:56:21.784 --> 0:56:42.4 Pierre-Paul Brassard Saute 12 traditions ou un sort of capte True, de générations and Matters of of à Button of Sexual activities, Or youngo, leur mari d'or not Wood somewhat gain in my. 0:56:42.504 --> 0:56:54.474 Pierre-Paul Brassard À toi habite éducation, notre propre populaire de de prise sur Saint Olive and religion will impose the roots votre et ne Fifty 106. 0:56:54.484 --> 0:56:56.204 Pierre-Paul Brassard Les stats what started to change. 0:56:56.214 --> 0:56:58.54 Pierre-Paul Brassard People started to trouble people. 0:56:58.314 --> 0:57:3.84 Pierre-Paul Brassard There was a Big évent in Montréal and Nineteen Sixty Seven World Expo. 0:57:4.314 --> 0:57:5.814 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oh, Oh là Ben ça n'aime. 0:57:5.824 --> 0:57:7.854 Pierre-Paul Brassard Groupe Hole, Walking to Montréal. 0:57:10.794 --> 0:57:12.354 Pierre-Paul Brassard Quoi ton impact culturel? 0:57:12.364 --> 0:57:12.894 Pierre-Paul Brassard Speaking. 0:57:13.284 --> 0:57:33.294 Pierre-Paul Brassard Evan anowa, TEN ten years later we have the olympics du Montréal de journal Nineteen Seventy Three on Wikipédia and Let's Phone n'est pas, je crois pas là va interviews with Pierre Trudeau de de Dan Prime Minister et suggère d'étudier que le cadavre, euh. 0:57:33.644 --> 0:57:41.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard One of the New Washing, Oh Trudeau Refuses n subsidies to de Montréal Olympics, notre sainte. 0:57:45.514 --> 0:57:45.914 Philippe Alain Paradis Une. 0:57:42.954 --> 0:57:51.334 Pierre-Paul Brassard Because Montréal Or because we know, but the first thing that Calgary got Or Vancouver for War Games. 0:58:0.474 --> 0:58:2.314 Pierre-Paul Brassard La soirée collé, les 2 solitudes. 0:58:3.464 --> 0:58:3.934 Philippe Alain Paradis Ouais. 0:58:7.924 --> 0:58:8.724 Pierre-Paul Brassard Une équation. 0:58:8.54 --> 0:58:10.174 Philippe Alain Paradis Sur non dormir? 0:58:15.344 --> 0:58:15.604 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais. 0:58:15.724 --> 0:58:17.204 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ah Ah oui, je sais, merci. 0:58:18.774 --> 0:58:20.594 Pierre-Paul Brassard OK Bonjour. 0:58:20.434 --> 0:58:21.634 Philippe Alain Paradis Voilà, ouais. 0:58:22.184 --> 0:58:25.244 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ouais ma boîte, donc bye à Nice. 0:58:28.64 --> 0:58:29.54 Shaza El Hajj Hassan Ouais, y a. 0:58:25.254 --> 0:58:30.134 Pierre-Paul Brassard Stories, without checking out, c'est, c'est bien, non? 0:58:30.394 --> 0:58:30.924 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ce que j'ai? 0:58:30.934 --> 0:58:42.684 Pierre-Paul Brassard Ah ouais, je Love les amène you got à Breaking and the muséums you got the University you can Access just about and voilà. 0:58:47.814 --> 0:58:48.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Okay? 0:58:49.454 --> 0:58:49.694 Philippe Alain Paradis good. 0:58:48.994 --> 0:58:50.294 Shaza El Hajj Hassan OK, thank you so much 0:58:50.864 --> 0:58:53.114 Pierre-Paul Brassard Oui, à moins encore, il te lâche bye. 0:58:53.544 --> 0:58:53.794 Shaza El Hajj Hassan bye 0:58:53.384 --> 0:58:53.994 Philippe Alain Paradis Mais ouais. 0:58:59.104 --> 0:58:59.524 Pierre-Paul Brassard Course. 0:59:1.814 --> 0:59:2.34 Pierre-Paul Brassard bye 0:58:59.94 --> 0:59:3.294 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brassard, Pierre-Paul (interview) Type The nature or genre of the resource person Description An account of the resource Testimonial about life at the University of Ottawa in Ottawa, Ontario as a student in the 1970s, including the Vietnam war and popular culture. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-27 Language A language of the resource French https://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/files/original/a7414c4454c79efbf6f16461f737f60c.docx a72d68baaffc9f691377a02536a223fc https://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/files/original/cb192c830e17af5674af91c8089c9603.docx 0a7f6f62fab81f34dad1a0ba37cec5f4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Birth Date Nov 10 1951 Birthplace Halifax Canada Schools Attended University of Ottawa (1974-1976) (MA) UVC Alliant International Degree MA BA Career business Ethnicity English Religious Culture Catholic Christian Devotional Life agnostic Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Occupation University Professor Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bhamjee, Matthew Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Charles, Roger Location The location of the interview Via Teams Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound THE FIRST ~5 MINUTES OF THE INTERVIEW WERE NOT RECORDED DUE TO TECHNICAL ISSUES. THE OPENING OF THE RECORDED TRANSCRIPT IS MR. ROGER CHARLES’ RESPONSE TO THE THIRD FOLLOW-UP QUESTION OF THE FIRST MAIN QUESTION: (Ottawa was a bilingual institution. How linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s; did francophones and anglophones enroll in the same university courses and participate in the same clubs?) Roger Charles: Many of the francophones that went to Ottawa U were actually franco-ontariens. If Quebec had separated [from Canada] they would have been a much smaller minority. Roger Charles: I think the French community versus the English community, they were two dynamics. One, I would say was the appeal or attractiveness of an independent Quebec. And I would probably say that for the bulk of the French speaking group (who were not conservative) would have supported the parti Quebecois and independence at the time. Roger Charles: Which of course never led to any physical conflict that I ever saw between English and French in Ottawa U, but it did make for a very difficult dynamic and experience compared to Carleton, which was very English. Matthew Bhamjee: Anglo-saxon almost? Roger Charles: Yeah, very white. because the international, the international students at that time were a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny minority. So it [Carleton] really was at that time an English university. Roger Charles: So it really was at that time an English university. Roger Charles: A lot of the professors were from the US. Roger Charles: And that was because, in the 60s, the universities exploded. You know, up until the 60s there was one university for BC and a University of Toronto and a University of Manitoba. Kind of like state, state universities in the states. And you know, all of the smaller universities like Brock and Concordia and uh and Carleton all exploded and there weren't enough professors in Canada to fill the spots. So there was a great deal of recruitment. Roger Charles: So, in my particular faculty, Yeah, I would say, yeah, certainly feel half the staff may have been American. Roger Charles: They all spoke French. That was a prerequisite, of course, in our course, you couldn't teach unless you spoke French and the French is very good if the accents were at a bit odd, but the French was very good. So in in our sector there, there were a lot of Americans, but bilingual American. Roger Charles: So, as far as a place to be in the 70s at all you, it was kind of interesting and in the sense that uh, Canada was going through much, much, much more, more severe stresses politically. Uh, resonated in the French and English Canada at that time. And that was reflected to considerable extent, In the challenges, I think both at the administrative level and in the student body level. Roger Charles: So you have you had essentially 3 universities all in all. So there was Carlton, which was the English university, the University of Quebec, all which is the French University and Ottawa U, which was the bilingual university, but with more biased towards French. Matthew Bhamjee: Ok, so what that everything you have to say on that? On to the next question. We use the term party culture to refer to social activities outside of the classroom, can you describe the party culture on campus during the 70s? Roger Charles: well again I was a graduate student. I did not live on campus. I had a bunch of roommates and we shared a house, you know, uh, downtown Ottawa at the time. So my party culture was limited. When I left campus, other than the occasional, I have a couple of friends who I remain friends with today from my University of Ottawa days. Roger Charles: but my social activities on campus were we're fairly minimal, but the big, big, big, big differences between today and yet and then was smoking was still common. It was still seen as sophisticated. Getting drunk was seen as something manly, uh, and to have sex with a girl you had to get the girl drunk, from a man’s perspective obviously. Roger Charles: but so the notion that drinking was bad for you, that smoking was bad for you, that and all that sort of stuff and getting drunk and then getting in a car and driving uh, all those things that are seen as either illegal uh or socially unacceptable today were not then. Roger Charles: So in one sense I suppose, when you talk about party culture, it wasn’t just uO, it was [all] universities in general that do it. Roger Charles: going out and drinking and smoking and having sex and all those things that that are, you know, Hollywood staple of universities, none of it was seen as bad, from a moral or health perspective at the time. So people didn’t think very much about the particular impacts Roger Charles: getting into a car and getting now all of the things, you know, the drinking and driving the anti smoking campaigns, the women's liberation movement, all of these things had started and all of these things were starting to have an impact on behaviors on campus but they hadn't got to the stage where they become either (as in the case of drinking and driving)g the laws were getting tighter and tighter but they weren't such that it was seen as a real criminal offense to get into car and be drunk. Roger Charles: Most people still smoked. The irony today is that, cigarette smoking is the worst offence, worse than dope. It was of course the reverse case back then. Roger Charles: So no, I think the constraint I mean I don't know what the university party culture, I teach at the University Vancouver now, but I don't socialize with my students where whereas in, in those days a university professors having sex with their students was not wasn't forbidden either. Matthew Bhamjee: Really? Would you say that it was, I don’t want to say common but, more prevalent then compared to how it is now? Roger Charles: Yes, because now, you sleep with one of your students you get fired. Whereas before it was more of a wink, wink say no more thing. So we certainly, I certainly knew professors, who always check the first year students and I'm talking about male professors and females. I’m talking first year, second year students. So it was not uncommon. Roger Charles: all of these things that that are now seen as bad, you know on campuses and smoking cigarettes, getting drunk, chasing women were seen as normal back then. So you could argue that that. If you define party culture as all of those things, then yes, there was a party culture, but it wasn't. thye were just the social norms of the day in terms of your behavior. Matthew: Wow. Ok. Alright so, we'll move on to the second section now I think you spoke about this very briefly, but this is about sort of the female experience and you know, gender norms. In your words, what would you say feminism signified in Canada in the 70s? Roger Charles: Certainly if you watch movies in the 60s, of Hollywood. But just, just generally the sexism, you know, watch the James Bond movies of the 60s and you watch the ones that have been made in the 2010s. The social norms are dramatically different. It’s normal if you look at a movie in the 60s, women are either mothers or sex objects. Roger Charles: As women went to university and became educated, and as society transitioned from rural society to an urban society, they started demanding, quite rightly in hindsight, greater respect and so there were quite a number of times where the feminist movement was perceived as a women who don't wear bras, and don’t shave their legs and don't shave their armpits and wear army boots. Roger Charles: And so that transition was certainly, very much an awareness of this shift in in attitudes towards women at the university and that, you know, included people, men like me. you know, you were still attracted to women and you still lusted after women, but women were because certainly becoming far more aware and conscious of their own rights as individuals rather than the old joke was, you know, a woman went to university to get a bachelor the bachelor. and that attitude of finding a husband who would provide was definitely shifting. Roger Charles: So the women I knew at the graduate level, you know we're pretty independent minded women. Who had saw their lives in terms of a career and not in terms of a husband or family. Roger Charles: I would say that the 70s Were the period when the feminist movement really started to embed its consciousness into the university. Roger Charles: Having said that, I think socially, most, most women and men still expected to get married are still expected to have children. But it was no longer automatic default to do so, and that nuanced shift was an outcome and a reflection of the feminist movement, which really got rolling in the late 60s and became even more pronounced in the following years. Matthew Bhamjee: so a lot of changes? Roger Charles: Yes but, you see that in hindsight, you know in 50 years time someone probably gonna contact you and say what the hell does auto you like then and when you're there you know you live within the experience that you experience and the social norms that you accept as the norms today and you know what I was there you didn't even have computers you know the only computers remain friends and you had. So things in that sense have changed dramatically have compared to today, but you're not when you know you're not, you don't wake up with a sort of Eureka moment. Life and social norms all change, don’t you just live with them? Roger Charles: And it's only in hindsight and where we are today and you look back at where you were 50 years ago and realized that there was a transition going on, but you weren't, you weren't completely complex. Roger Charles: Most men were very dismissive of the feminist movement and they kind of dismiss ed them as all ugly lesbian. But in actual fact, the work that most feminists did to change the mindset of men and society generally was being absorbed and the way that more than more women than men go to universities these days is the outcome of that, that transition. Matthew: Ok, so for the next question, would you say there were any programs at the university or departments or clubs where women were less present or accepted or represented? Roger Charles: Every Sports Club, I would think, certainly football, hockey, you know, and they were still male dominated sports. Women, were We're in sports, I think at that point time, we're still very umm kind of amateurish for the most part. Roger Charles: So, I think the Ottawa U GGs at the time were actually a powerhouse football team. And so they were quite successful, much better than Carleton at the time. And the ice hockey team. So, I think in sports teams most of the time, were still seen as you know, it was very much a male. I mean, I think that there were intercollegiate female sports, but I don’t think that played it anywhere near the role that the major sports teams did. Roger Charles: And again, at that time, , and even today, to a certain extent, I think you know they're trying to change the mindset that the women went into the softer sciences, so women were still expected to go into nursing. I had friends who were female and who were going into medicine. And so the number of women that were going into the medical professions, right across the board was growing very rapidly. Roger Charles: There was very little crossover, I think in both in terms of clubs and so I don't think there was a huge merger of those value systems at that time. Matthew Bhamjee: Ok. Just to assure you, we’re still much better then Carleton at football. Roger Charles: Ok, well I’m glad to hear that. Matthew Bhamjee: I think were at 5 panda games in a row or something. Roger Charles: You know, I know the guy that owns the Ottawa Red blacks, John Ruddy. He and I went to school together and he played [football] at Carleton. So I got to know the football teams a little bit because I knew him and he's gone on to be very successful developer. That's why I think he brought the football team at Carlton back because of his links back in the 70s to playing football there so. Roger Charles: one other thing that I should add. I was very good friends with Maureen McTeer who was Joe Clark’s wife, who became prime minister in 1980. And I remember this quite vividly, she was a very good example of how women were changing in the 70s. , she and I went to high school together at Saint Pat's, and then I did undergrad at UBC. But she and I linked back up at the University of Ottawa and by this time she was quite a determined and independent woman and She went to law school at Ottawa U. Roger Charles: And so she was a very good illustration of the new woman, the woman of my generation of boomer generation, during she was very determined. She had great have political ambitions. And she knew that she wanted to be a lawyer and she wasn't going to be a mother just because she was a woman. Roger Charles: And the last time I really remember sitting on campus with her chatting. And by this time, this was the late 70s, she had married Joe Clark. And she told me how they're that she he was going to become leader of the opposition to Justin Trudeau's father, at this point in time was still Prime Minister and he was running, they got it and she became the wife of the Prime Minister, Joe Clark. And a lot of people hated her precisely because she inserted her independence. she wasn't the back sitting in the back being quiet and humble, she went out and asserted her rights. Both books and all the rest of this stuff. So she was a very good illustration of how women we're taking charge of their lives and becoming professionals. Roger Charles: Instead of just marrying men and having children, but quite determined to have independent lives of their own. And so she and the women I knew who became medical doctors were the first wave, the big wave of women asserting an independent professional life was becoming much, much more widespread. Matthew Bhamjee: alright we’ll move onto the third section. historians have written a lot about what they call counterculture revolution, and that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents generation. To what extent in your social circle, did people see themselves as needing to mobilize for a more just society and better world, which you say? Roger Charles: I’m not sure, you know. I think every generation thinks itself is as a revolutionary and defiant. But you know the big thing about our generation, the boomers, is that we're at university was we were the first generation to really be lucky. And in the sense that, you know, my parents went to war, they grew up during the depression and then after the war, Was considered the glorious years from the 50s to the 70s. Roger Charles: Western economies, including Canadian economy, which at the time of the you know the in the late 60s and 70s, was still in the second richest country in the world. Now we're down about 15th or 20th. And so, we were blessed with a health system and all these sorts of things that made our lives actually pretty cool. Roger Charles: Now they, you know, the Vietnam War was going on in the United States, and there were Americans certainly going off to the to the war. But Canadians were not faced with that sort of trauma. And we didn’t have conscription. Roger Charles: If you were to ask me what was the biggest change in in or that made much of the sort of value system that were change happening, it's the pill. You know when women could have sex and not have to worry about getting pregnant. And then firstly, there was a sexual liberation and all the rest of it that made a huge, huge mental change, both for women and men. And so the default that you know if you had sex with a woman, you had to marry her because you might get pregnant no longer existed. Roger Charles: And then of course the drugs became fairly popular. So, but this is all premised on unemployment at 2 or 3% and the economy growing at two or three or 4% etcetera. But by the 70s, things were starting to change. You know, we had stagflation, You're the there wasn't any automatic right that you would get a job when you graduated from university. And so, when you were talking in your preamble about the 70s being a dull age to most people, , I think that's because of the excesses of the 60s and the revolutionary or the OR the reaction to the conservativism or and traditionalism of our parents had to consider with them expired because the economic models that had resulted in the growth of Western Economic Society for the previous 25 years were failing. And therefore, by definition, people became more reserved and more conservative. Roger Charles: And of course, in ultimately resulted in in a great disaster, in a sense, that starting in the 80s we have the conservative pushback. And what we see when the chaos done in the United States today and Pierre Poilievre of and the people’s party today is a reflection of all the things, umm, that we started as a reaction to the economic situation that was taking place in the 70s. Roger Charles: so I am not so sure that you could call our generation really that revolutionary, the Boomers governments are a embarrassment to you from your generation. I look at Trump and many of the people that are empowered, they, Xi Jinping in China and Modi in in India and Erdogan. They're all part of my generation and I think are awful people. Roger Charles: So yeah, I’m sure it’s a cultural reaction, not a revolution. Matthew Bhamjee: I mean I on that point, I think it's just people can sometimes get a little more conservative as they grow older. I’m sure it’ll happen to me, and on top of that, maybe these people in power were from more privileged standing when they were younger and so they didn’t get the same perspective. I mean, Donald Trump wouldn't have been necessarily affected by the effects of the Vietnam War because his dad made sure he got out of the draft or whatever. Roger Charles: Bill Clinton, for that matter, dodged the draft. So you went all American presidents and George W Bush, they all dodged the draft because they could. Anyway, that’s another story. Matthew Bhamjee: Ok. I think we have time for one more question. All give you the would you like to do the question about sexuality and harassment, or would you prefer to keep on the track of Sort of like protests and counterculture? Roger Charles: I think sexuality and harassment, I don’t know Matthew Bhamjee: It’s up to you, you don’t have to speak on anything you’re not comfortable with. Roger Charles: Well I’ll just say, it's a very fashionable subject today about sexual harassment and always, of course, you know, with the cases of Harvey Weinstein and all that sort of stuff. And yeah, all that stuff went on back then, and the professors were just as bad as everybody else will know. Not a lot, but some of the professors certainly chased the girls. So and you would be far better off talking to some of the females of my age about sexual harassment because I'm sure they got a lot of it. Roger Charles: Or not a lot of it, but certainly it was obvious and nobody though anything of it. The feminist movement was precisely targeted to that sort of thing as a pushback that women are not just sex objects and sex toys for forbidden pleasure. Roger Charles: So no doubt that stuff existed. But as a man, hey, did you think it was particularly bad? You know you went to see a James Bond movie and they were terribly sexist. In fact most movies were terribly sexist. If you look at the movies of the day, the idea of having sex with a 16 year-old was normal. Not today. But you weren’t a pariah for doing those sorts of things. So it's very difficult for me to talk about that stuff because it was an accepted norm that is no longer acceptable. Roger Charles: The other thing was you know what? (And I come back to it) The big dynamic in Ottawa, was whether Quebec was going to separate or not. Roger Charles: And the French to be fair you know, I had a lot to do with Quebec in throughout the 60s and 70s and no society in Canada changed more than Quebec did. So it used to be in Quebec the power of the Catholic church, but today you know, nobody goes to church in Quebec anymore. And then so the social revolution. and so that brought on partly by the desire for Quebec independence. Roger Charles: And the and the combination of the pill and urbanization and all these things had a far, far, far greater impact on uh, Quebec society and French society Than it did on English Canadian society, which was the dominant society and the conflict was primarily an in the French conflict. And the conflict is never over. Roger Charles: And so it was, I think a much more sensitive issue at all where you precisely because it was a bilingual university. , I certainly went out and I'm having a good relationship with French people that I knew girls and boys, uh, there, there, there was considerable, um, these two solitudes between the English and French. Roger Charles: Well, it’s still pretty substantive. In my view I'm certainly very glad I went to Ottawa U at the time, Ottawa U and Carlton were seeing roughly equal. Even Carlton seen a bit better. Now, It's clear that Ottawa is much, much, much, much better. I think great value added propositions precisely because it has been or is the biggest bilingual university in Canada, if not the world. Roger Charles: and it was a triumph of the administration that Ottawa U assume to keep that, that that dynamism and that, that intercultural engagement under some fairly tough times politically in Canada. So I think if there was, if there's a schematic underline or at Ottawa you during those that period it was the management of a university that had its feet in both camps, both French and English Canada, and where there was times Potential for a real physical conflict, you know? Roger Charles: But the FLQ, where we're blowing up post boxes and in 1970 of course there was the War Measures Act because a bunch of people got killed. And so U Ottawa would have in the thickness of the political dynamic, so I think its to the credit of the administration of the day I think, to manage the two, the dynamics at the university, again in hindsight, very well. And the university, I think is blessed and that said, benefited tremendously by being a bilingual university. Matthew Bhamjee: Alright. Thank you. I think that’s all I need. --END OF FORMAL INTERVIEW-- Transcription Translation LES 5 PREMIÈRES MINUTES DE L'ENTRETIEN N'ONT PAS ÉTÉ ENREGISTRÉES EN RAISON DE PROBLÈMES TECHNIQUES. LE DÉBUT DE LA TRANSCRIPTION ENREGISTRÉE EST LA RÉPONSE DE MR. ROGER CHARLES À LA TROISIÈME QUESTION DE SUIVI DE LA PREMIÈRE QUESTION PRINCIPALE : (Ottawa était une institution bilingue. Dans quelle mesure était-elle intégrée sur le plan linguistique au cours des années 1970 ; les francophones et les anglophones s'inscrivaient-ils aux mêmes cours universitaires et participaient-ils aux mêmes clubs ?) Roger Charles : Beaucoup de francophones qui ont étudié à l'Université d'OƩawa étaient en fait des Franco-ontariens. Si le Québec s'était séparé [du Canada], ils auraient consƟtué une minorité beaucoup moins importante. Roger Charles : Je pense que la communauté française par rapport à la communauté anglaise, il y avait deux dynamiques. La première, je dirais, était l'aƩrait ou l'aƩracƟvité d'un Québec indépendant. Et je dirais probablement que la majorité des francophones (qui n'étaient pas conservateurs) auraient appuyé le ParƟ québécois et l'indépendance à l'époque. Roger Charles : Ce qui, bien sûr, n'a jamais conduit à un conflit physique entre Anglais et Français à l'Université d'OƩawa, mais cela a créé une dynamique et une expérience très difficiles par rapport à Carleton, qui était très anglophone. MaƩhew Bhamjee : Anglo-saxon presque ? Roger Charles : Oui, très blanche, parce que les étudiants étrangers, les étudiants étrangers à l'époque étaient une minuscule, minuscule, minuscule, minuscule minorité. Donc [Carleton] était vraiment à l'époque une université anglaise. Roger Charles : Il s'agissait donc bien à l'époque d'une université anglaise. Roger Charles : Beaucoup de professeurs venaient des États-Unis. Abonnez-vous à DeepL Pro pour éditer ce document. Visitez www.DeepL.com/pro pour en savoir plus. Roger Charles : Et c'est parce que, dans les années 60, les universités ont explosé. Vous savez, jusqu'aux années 60, il y avait une université pour la Colombie-Britannique, une université de Toronto et une université du Manitoba. Un peu comme les universités d'État aux États-Unis. Et vous savez, toutes les petites universités comme Brock, Concordia, euh et Carleton ont toutes explosé et il n'y avait pas assez de professeurs au Canada pour combler les places. Il y a donc eu beaucoup de recrutement. Roger Charles : Donc, dans ma faculté en particulier, oui, je dirais, oui, je pense certainement que la moitié du personnel était américaine. Roger Charles : Ils parlaient tous français. C'était une condition préalable, bien sûr, dans notre cours, vous ne pouviez pas enseigner à moins de parler français et le français est très bon, même si les accents sont un peu bizarres, mais le français est très bon. Dans notre secteur, il y avait donc beaucoup d'Américains, mais des Américains bilingues. Roger Charles : Donc, pour ce qui est de l'endroit où se trouver dans les années 70, c'était assez intéressant et dans le sens où euh, le Canada traversait des tensions beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup plus graves sur le plan politique. Euh, cela résonnait dans le Canada français et anglais à l'époque. Et cela s'est reflété dans une large mesure dans les défis, je pense, tant au niveau administratif qu'au niveau du corps étudiant. Roger Charles : Il y avait donc essentiellement trois universités en tout et pour tout. Il y avait Carlton, l'université anglaise, l'Université du Québec, l'université française et l'Université d'Ottawa, l'université bilingue, mais plus orientée vers le français. Matthew Bhamjee : Ok, alors qu'est-ce que vous avez à dire à ce sujet ? Passons à la question suivante. Nous utilisons le terme "culture de la fête" pour désigner les activités sociales en dehors des cours. Pouvez-vous décrire la culture de la fête sur le campus dans les années 70 ? Roger Charles : Encore une fois, j'étais étudiant diplômé. Je ne vivais pas sur le campus. J'avais plusieurs colocataires et nous partagions une maison, vous savez, euh, au centre-ville d'Ottawa à l'époque. Ma culture de la fête était donc limitée. Quand j'ai quitté le campus, à part quelques amis occasionnels, j'ai quelques amis avec qui je suis toujours ami depuis l'époque où j'étais à l'Université d'Ottawa. Roger Charles : mais mes activités sociales sur le campus étaient assez minimes, mais la grande, grande, grande, grande différence entre aujourd'hui et maintenant et à l'époque, c'est que fumer était encore courant. C'était encore considéré comme sophistiqué. S'enivrer était considéré comme quelque chose de viril, euh, et pour avoir des relations sexuelles avec une fille, il fallait qu'elle soit ivre, du point de vue d'un homme évidemment. Roger Charles : Mais la notion que boire est mauvais pour la santé, que fumer est mauvais pour la santé, et tout ce genre de choses, se saouler et ensuite monter dans une voiture et conduire, toutes ces choses qui sont considérées comme illégales ou socialement inacceptables aujourd'hui ne l'étaient pas à l'époque. Roger Charles : Dans un sens, je suppose que lorsque vous parlez de la culture de la fête, ce n'était pas seulement l'Université d'Ottawa, c'était [toutes] les universités en général qui la pratiquaient. Roger Charles : Sortir, boire, fumer, avoir des relations sexuelles et toutes ces choses qui sont, vous savez, la norme hollywoodienne des universités, rien de tout cela n'était considéré comme mauvais, d'un point de vue moral ou sanitaire à l'époque. Les gens n'ont donc pas beaucoup réfléchi à l'impact particulier de ces activités sur la santé. Roger Charles : monter dans une voiture et s'enivrer Toutes ces choses, vous savez, l'alcool au volant, les campagnes anti-tabac, le mouvement de libération des femmes, toutes ces choses avaient commencé et commençaient à avoir un impact sur les comportements sur le campus mais elles n'avaient pas atteint le stade où elles devenaient (comme dans le cas de l'alcool au volant)g les lois devenaient de plus en plus strictes mais elles n'étaient pas telles que monter dans une voiture et s'enivrer était considéré comme une véritable infraction pénale. Roger Charles : La plupart des gens fumaient encore. L'ironie, aujourd'hui, c'est que la cigarette est le pire des délits, pire que la drogue. À l'époque, c'était bien sûr l'inverse. Roger Charles : Non, je pense que la contrainte - je ne sais pas quelle est la culture de la fête à l'université, j'enseigne maintenant à l'université de Vancouver, mais je ne fréquente pas mes étudiants, alors qu'à l'époque, il n'était pas interdit aux professeurs d'université d'avoir des relations sexuelles avec leurs étudiantes. Matthew Bhamjee : Vraiment ? Diriez-vous que c'était, je ne veux pas dire courant, mais plus répandu à l'époque qu'aujourd'hui ? Roger Charles : Oui, parce que maintenant, si vous couchez avec une de vos étudiantes, vous êtes viré. Alors qu'avant, c'était plutôt un clin d'œil, un clin d'œil, on ne disait plus rien. Donc nous avons certainement, j'ai certainement connu des professeurs qui vérifiaient toujours les étudiants de première année et je parle des professeurs masculins et féminins. Je parle des étudiants de première et deuxième année. Ce n'était donc pas rare. Roger Charles : Toutes ces choses qui sont aujourd'hui considérées comme mauvaises, vous savez sur les campus, fumer des cigarettes, se saouler, draguer les femmes, étaient considérées comme normales à l'époque. On peut donc dire que c'est le cas. Si vous définissez la culture de la fête comme toutes ces choses, alors oui, il y avait une culture de la fête, mais ce n'était pas le cas. Matthew : Wow. D'accord. D'accord, nous allons passer à la deuxième section. Je pense que vous en avez parlé très brièvement, mais il s'agit de l'expérience féminine et des normes de genre. Selon vous, que signifiait le féminisme au Canada dans les années 70 ? Roger Charles : Certainement, si vous regardez les films des années 60, d'Hollywood. Mais juste, juste en général, le sexisme, vous savez, regardez les films de James Bond des années 60 et regardez ceux qui ont été faits dans les années 2010. Les normes sociales sont radicalement différentes. Si vous regardez un film des années 60, il est normal que les femmes soient soit des mères, soit des objets sexuels. Roger Charles : Au fur et à mesure que les femmes allaient à l'université et s'instruisaient, et que la société passait d'une société rurale à une société urbaine, elles ont commencé à exiger, à juste titre avec le recul, un plus grand respect. Il est donc arrivé à plusieurs reprises que le mouvement féministe soit perçu comme un mouvement de femmes qui ne portent pas de soutien-gorge, qui ne se rasent pas les jambes ni les aisselles et qui portent des bottes militaires. Roger Charles : Et donc cette transition était certainement, très consciente de ce changement d'attitude envers les femmes à l'université et cela, vous savez, incluait des gens, des hommes comme moi. vous savez, vous étiez toujours attiré par les femmes et vous les convoitiez toujours, mais les femmes devenaient certainement beaucoup plus conscientes et conscientes de leurs propres droits en tant qu'individus plutôt que la vieille blague, vous savez, une femme allait à l'université pour obtenir un baccalauréat, le baccalauréat. et cette attitude de trouver un mari qui subviendrait aux besoins était définitivement en train de changer. Roger Charles : Les femmes que j'ai connues au cours de mes études supérieures étaient plutôt indépendantes d'esprit. Qui voyaient leur vie en termes de carrière et non en termes de mari ou de famille. Roger Charles : Je dirais que les années 70 ont été la période où le mouvement féministe a vraiment commencé à s'implanter dans l'université. Roger Charles : Cela dit, je pense que socialement, la plupart des femmes et des hommes qui sont encore censés se marier sont encore censés avoir des enfants. Mais ce n'était plus un choix automatique par défaut, et ce changement nuancé était le résultat et le reflet du mouvement féministe, qui a vraiment démarré à la fin des années 60 et est devenu encore plus prononcé dans les années qui ont suivi. Matthew Bhamjee : Il y a donc beaucoup de changements ? Roger Charles : Oui, mais avec le recul, dans 50 ans, quelqu'un vous contactera probablement pour vous demander ce que vous faisiez à l'époque. Quand vous êtes là-bas, vous vivez dans le cadre de l'expérience que vous vivez et des normes sociales que vous acceptez comme étant les normes d'aujourd'hui. En ce sens, les choses ont changé de manière spectaculaire par rapport à aujourd'hui, mais on ne se réveille pas avec une sorte de moment Eureka. La vie et les normes sociales changent toutes, ne faut-il pas s'en accommoder ? Roger Charles : Ce n'est qu'avec le recul que l'on se rend compte de la situation dans laquelle nous nous trouvons aujourd'hui et que l'on regarde où l'on était il y a 50 ans et que l'on se rend compte qu'une transition était en cours, mais que l'on n'était pas, que l'on n'était pas complètement complexé. Roger Charles : La plupart des hommes étaient très dédaigneux à l'égard du mouvement féministe et les considéraient comme de vilaines lesbiennes. Mais en réalité, le travail accompli par la plupart des féministes pour changer la mentalité des hommes et de la société en général a été absorbé et le fait qu'il y ait aujourd'hui plus de femmes que d'hommes dans les universités est le résultat de cette transition. Matthew : Ok, donc pour la question suivante, diriez-vous qu'il y avait des programmes à l'université, des départements ou des clubs où les femmes étaient moins présentes, acceptées ou représentées ? Roger Charles : Tous les clubs de sport, je pense, certainement le football, le hockey, vous savez, et c'était encore des sports dominés par les hommes. Les femmes, si nous faisons du sport, je pense qu'à cette époque, nous sommes encore très humm genre d'amateur pour la plupart. Roger Charles : Je pense que les GG de l'Université d'Ottawa étaient à l'époque une équipe de football très performante. Ils avaient beaucoup de succès, bien plus que Carleton à l'époque. Et l'équipe de hockey sur glace. Je pense donc que la plupart du temps, les équipes sportives étaient encore perçues comme des équipes masculines. Je veux dire, je pense qu'il y avait des sports féminins intercollégiaux, mais je ne pense pas qu'ils jouaient le même rôle que les grandes équipes sportives. Roger Charles : Et encore une fois, à cette époque, et même aujourd'hui, dans une certaine mesure, je pense qu'ils essaient de changer la mentalité selon laquelle les femmes allaient dans les sciences plus douces, donc on s'attendait toujours à ce que les femmes aillent dans les soins infirmiers. J'avais des amies qui étaient des femmes et qui se destinaient à la médecine. Le nombre de femmes qui s'orientaient vers les professions médicales augmentait donc très rapidement. Roger Charles : Il y a eu très peu de croisements, je pense, entre les deux clubs et je ne pense pas qu'il y ait eu une grande fusion de ces systèmes de valeurs à l'époque. Matthew Bhamjee : D'accord. Juste pour vous rassurer, nous sommes toujours bien meilleurs que Carleton au football. Roger Charles : D'accord, je suis heureux de l'entendre. Matthew Bhamjee : Je crois qu'on en est à 5 jeux de panda d'affilée ou quelque chose comme ça. Roger Charles : Vous savez, je connais le propriétaire des Red Blacks d'Ottawa, John Ruddy. Lui et moi sommes allés à l'école ensemble et il a joué [au football] à Carleton. J'ai donc appris à connaître un peu les équipes de football parce que je l'ai connu et qu'il est devenu un promoteur très prospère. C'est pourquoi je pense qu'il a ramené l'équipe de football de Carlton en raison des liens qu'il avait tissés dans les années 70 en jouant au football là-bas. Roger Charles : Je voudrais ajouter une chose. J'étais très ami avec Maureen McTeer, l'épouse de Joe Clark, qui est devenu premier ministre en 1980. Je m'en souviens très bien, elle était un très bon exemple de l'évolution des femmes dans les années 70. Je suis allée au lycée avec elle, à Saint Pat's, puis j'ai fait mes études à l'UBC. Mais nous nous sommes retrouvées à l'Université d'Ottawa et à ce momentlà, elle était une femme déterminée et indépendante et elle a fait des études de droit à l'Université d'Ottawa. Roger Charles : Elle était donc une très bonne illustration de la nouvelle femme, la femme de ma génération, la génération des baby-boomers, car elle était très déterminée. Elle avait de grandes ambitions politiques. Elle savait qu'elle voulait être avocate et qu'elle n'allait pas devenir mère simplement parce qu'elle était une femme. Roger Charles : Et la dernière fois, je me souviens vraiment m'être assis sur le campus avec elle pour discuter. À cette époque, c'est-à-dire à la fin des années 70, elle avait épousé Joe Clark. Elle m'a raconté qu'elle allait devenir chef de l'opposition au père de Justin Trudeau, qui était encore Premier ministre à ce moment-là et qui se présentait, et qu'ils l'ont eu et qu'elle est devenue la femme du Premier ministre, Joe Clark. Et beaucoup de gens l'ont détestée précisément parce qu'elle a fait valoir son indépendance. Elle n'était pas la personne assise à l'arrière, silencieuse et humble, elle est sortie et a fait valoir ses droits. Les deux livres et tout le reste. Elle était donc une très bonne illustration de la façon dont les femmes prenaient leur vie en main et devenaient des professionnelles. Roger Charles : Au lieu d'épouser des hommes et d'avoir des enfants, elles étaient tout à fait déterminées à mener une vie indépendante. Elle et les femmes que j'ai connues et qui sont devenues médecins ont donc été la première vague, la grande vague de femmes affirmant une vie professionnelle indépendante devenant beaucoup, beaucoup plus répandue. Matthew Bhamjee : Très bien, nous allons passer à la troisième partie. Les historiens ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent la révolution de la contre-culture, et sur le fait que votre génération s'est rebellée contre les valeurs de la génération de vos parents. Dans quelle mesure, dans votre cercle social, les gens considéraient-ils qu'ils devaient se mobiliser pour une société plus juste et un monde meilleur, comme vous le dites ? Roger Charles : Je n'en suis pas sûr. Je pense que toutes les générations se considèrent comme révolutionnaires et défiantes. Mais vous savez, ce qui caractérise notre génération, les baby-boomers, c'est que nous sommes à l'université et que nous sommes la première génération à avoir vraiment eu de la chance. En effet, mes parents sont partis à la guerre, ils ont grandi pendant la dépression, puis après la guerre, c'était les années glorieuses, des années 50 aux années 70. Roger Charles : Les économies occidentales, y compris l'économie canadienne qui, à l'époque de la fin des années 60 et des années 70, était encore le deuxième pays le plus riche du monde. Aujourd'hui, nous nous situons aux alentours de la 15e ou de la 20e place. Nous avons donc eu la chance de bénéficier d'un système de santé et de toutes sortes de choses qui ont rendu nos vies plutôt agréables. Roger Charles : Vous savez, la guerre du Vietnam se déroulait aux États-Unis et certains Américains partaient à la guerre. Mais les Canadiens n'étaient pas confrontés à ce genre de traumatisme. Et nous n'avions pas de conscription. Roger Charles : Si vous deviez me demander quel a été le plus grand changement dans le système de valeurs qui s'est produit, c'est la pilule. Vous savez, quand les femmes pouvaient avoir des relations sexuelles sans avoir à s'inquiéter de tomber enceintes. Ensuite, il y a eu une libération sexuelle et tout le reste, qui a provoqué un énorme changement mental, tant pour les femmes que pour les hommes. Ainsi, l'idée que si vous aviez des relations sexuelles avec une femme, vous deviez l'épouser parce que vous risquiez de tomber enceinte n'existait plus. Roger Charles : Et puis, bien sûr, les drogues sont devenues assez populaires. Tout cela est basé sur un taux de chômage de 2 ou 3 % et une croissance économique de 2, 3 ou 4 %, etc. Mais dans les années 70, les choses ont commencé à changer. Il n'y avait plus de droit automatique à un emploi à la sortie de l'université. Ainsi, lorsque vous avez parlé dans votre préambule des années 70 comme d'un âge ennuyeux pour la plupart des gens, je pense que c'est à cause des excès des années 60 et de la révolution ou de la réaction au conservatisme ou au traditionalisme que nos parents ont dû considérer avec eux, parce que les modèles économiques qui avaient abouti à la croissance de la société économique occidentale au cours des 25 années précédentes échouaient. Et donc, par définition, les gens sont devenus plus réservés et plus conservateurs. Roger Charles : Et bien sûr, en fin de compte, cela a abouti à un grand désastre, dans un sens, qu'à partir des années 80, nous avons le reflux conservateur. Et ce que nous voyons quand le chaos fait aux ÉtatsUnis aujourd'hui et Pierre Poilievre de et le parti populaire aujourd'hui est un reflet de toutes les choses, umm, que nous avons commencé comme une réaction à la situation économique qui se déroulait dans les années 70. Roger Charles : Je ne suis pas sûr que l'on puisse dire que notre génération est vraiment révolutionnaire, les gouvernements des baby-boomers sont une source d'embarras pour votre génération. Je regarde Trump et beaucoup de gens qui ont le pouvoir, Xi Jinping en Chine, Modi en Inde et Erdogan, ils font tous partie de ma génération et je pense que ce sont des gens horribles. Ils font tous partie de ma génération et je pense que ce sont des gens horribles. Roger Charles : Donc oui, je suis sûr qu'il s'agit d'une réaction culturelle, pas d'une révolution. Matthew Bhamjee : Sur ce point, je pense que les gens deviennent parfois un peu plus conservateurs en vieillissant. Je suis sûr que cela m'arrivera, et en plus de cela, peut-être que ces personnes au pouvoir étaient plus privilégiées lorsqu'elles étaient plus jeunes et qu'elles n'ont donc pas eu la même perspective. Donald Trump n'aurait pas nécessairement été affecté par les effets de la guerre du Viêt Nam parce que son père s'est assuré qu'il n'était pas enrôlé ou quoi que ce soit d'autre. Roger Charles : Bill Clinton, lui aussi, a échappé à l'appel sous les drapeaux. Tous les présidents américains et George W. Bush ont donc échappé à l'appel sous les drapeaux parce qu'ils le pouvaient. Quoi qu'il en soit, c'est une autre histoire. Matthew Bhamjee : D'accord. Je pense que nous avons le temps pour une dernière question. Est-ce que vous aimeriez poser la question sur la sexualité et le harcèlement, ou préférez-vous continuer sur la voie des protestations et de la contre-culture ? Roger Charles : Je pense que la sexualité et le harcèlement, je ne sais pas... Matthew Bhamjee : C'est à vous de décider, vous n'êtes pas obligé de parler de ce qui vous met mal à l'aise. Roger Charles : Je dirai simplement que le harcèlement sexuel est un sujet très à la mode aujourd'hui, bien sûr, avec les affaires d'Harvey Weinstein et tout ce genre de choses. Et oui, toutes ces choses se passaient à l'époque, et les professeurs étaient tout aussi mauvais que tout le monde le sait. Pas beaucoup, mais certains d'entre eux couraient certainement après les filles. Vous feriez donc mieux de parler de harcèlement sexuel à des femmes de mon âge, car je suis sûre qu'elles en ont subi beaucoup. Roger Charles : Ou pas beaucoup, mais c'était évident et personne n'en pensait rien. Le mouvement féministe s'est précisément attaqué à ce genre de choses pour montrer que les femmes ne sont pas seulement des objets sexuels et des jouets sexuels pour le plaisir interdit. Roger Charles : Il ne fait donc aucun doute que ces choses ont existé. Mais en tant qu'homme, avez-vous pensé que c'était particulièrement mauvais ? Vous savez, vous êtes allé voir un film de James Bond et ils étaient terriblement sexistes. En fait, la plupart des films étaient terriblement sexistes. Si vous regardez les films de l'époque, l'idée d'avoir des relations sexuelles avec une jeune fille de 16 ans était normale. Ce n'est plus le cas aujourd'hui. Mais on n'était pas un paria pour ce genre de choses. Il m'est donc très difficile de parler de ce genre de choses, car il s'agissait d'une norme acceptée qui n'est plus acceptable aujourd'hui. Roger Charles : L'autre chose, c'est que (et j'y reviens) la grande dynamique à Ottawa, c'était de savoir si le Québec allait se séparer ou non. Roger Charles : Pour être honnête, j'ai beaucoup travaillé au Québec dans les années 60 et 70 et aucune société au Canada n'a changé autant que le Québec. Au Québec, le pouvoir de l'Église catholique était très important, mais aujourd'hui, plus personne ne va à l'église au Québec. Et puis il y a eu la révolution sociale, qui a été provoquée en partie par le désir d'indépendance du Québec. Roger Charles : Et la combinaison de la pilule et de l'urbanisation et de toutes ces choses a eu un impact beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup plus grand sur euh, la société québécoise et la société française que sur la société canadienne anglaise, qui était la société dominante et le conflit était principalement un conflit français. Et le conflit n'est jamais terminé. Roger Charles : Et donc c'était, je pense que c'était une question beaucoup plus sensible là où vous précisément parce que c'était une université bilingue. Je suis sorti et j'ai eu de bonnes relations avec des Français que je connaissais, filles et garçons, mais il y avait des solitudes considérables entre les Anglais et les Français. Roger Charles : Eh bien, c'est encore assez important. À mon avis, je suis très heureux d'être allé à l'Université d'Ottawa à l'époque, car l'Université d'Ottawa et Carlton étaient à peu près sur un pied d'égalité. Même Carlton était un peu mieux loti. Maintenant, il est clair qu'Ottawa est beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup mieux. Je pense qu'elle offre une grande valeur ajoutée, précisément parce qu'elle a été ou est la plus grande université bilingue du Canada, voire du monde. Roger Charles : Et c'était un triomphe de l'administration que l'Université d'Ottawa a assumé pour garder ce, ce dynamisme et cet, cet engagement interculturel dans des temps assez difficiles politiquement au Canada. Donc je pense que s'il y a eu, s'il y a un soulignement schématique à Ottawa pendant cette période, c'était la gestion d'une université qui avait les pieds dans les deux camps, le Canada français et le Canada anglais, et où il y avait parfois un potentiel pour un vrai conflit physique, vous savez ? Roger Charles : Mais le FLQ, on faisait sauter des boîtes postales et en 1970, bien sûr, il y a eu la Loi sur les mesures de guerre parce qu'un tas de gens ont été tués. L'Université d'Ottawa aurait donc été dans l'épaisseur de la dynamique politique, alors je pense que c'est à l'honneur de l'administration de l'époque de gérer les deux, la dynamique à l'université, encore une fois avec le recul, très bien. Et l'université, je pense, est bénie et cela dit, a énormément bénéficié du fait d'être une université bilingue. Matthew Bhamjee : D'accord. Je vous remercie. Je pense que c'est tout ce dont j'ai besoin. --FIN DE L'ENTRETIEN FORMEL Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Charles, Roger (Interview) Type The nature or genre of the resource person Description An account of the resource Testimonial about time at the University of Ottawa during the 1970s. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Matthew Bhamjee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-10-18 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource No Audio Captured Language A language of the resource English 1970s Campus Life Canadian History English-French Relations Feminist Movement University Culture University of Ottawa Person An individual. Birth Date 1950 Birthplace Taschereau, Québec, Canada Schools Attended CÉGEP de l'Abitibi-Témicamingue (1970-72) University of Ottawa (1972-74) Degree CEGEP BA Career administrative Occupation Administrator Religious Culture Catholic Christian Devotional Life casual Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Ethnicity French Biographical Text Directeur des loisirs (Director of Leisure) for the City of Ville-Marie Directeur du sport scolaire (Director of School Sports) for Association du Sport Scolaire Abitibi-Témiscamingue Agent culturel des bibliothèques (Library Cultural Agent), BCP (Bibliothèque centrale de prêts) Outaouais, BCP Abitibi-Témiscamingue Directeur de bibliothèque (Library Director) City of Rouyn-Noranda Directeur du service étudiant (Student Service Director), UQAT Directeur en formation continue (Continuing Edicucation Director), Language Centre, UQAT Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource S., Laurent (Pseudonym) Type The nature or genre of the resource person Person An individual. Birthplace Haileybury, Ontario, Canada Schools Attended Laurentian University (1974-1980) Birth Date 1955 Degree BA Career education Occupation Teacher (retired) Ethnicity French Religious Culture Catholic Christian Devotional Life casual Gender Identity woman Sexual Orientation straight Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sweet, Jeanne-Mance Type The nature or genre of the resource person Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Campus Voices 1970-1975 Description An account of the resource Collection of oral histories from witnesses to North American campuses Relation A related resource https://sites.google.com/view/lifeoncampus/campus-voices Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Birth Date 1956 Birthplace Montreal, Quebec, Canada Schools Attended University of Ottawa, 1973-1977 Degree BA MA Career business Ethnicity Italian Religious Culture Catholic Christian Devotional Life practicing Gender Identity man Sexual Orientation straight Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bryant, Liam Location The location of the interview Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (Via Zoom) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound  Here we go. Uh, okay. So, um, this is, uh, the interview. Um, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself? My name is Philip Bonardelli. Um, I was a student at the University of Ottawa and I did my, uh, graduated with my Master's in Economics. And I did an undergrad as well in the, uh, Faculty of Social Sciences. Um, Honours Bachelor of Social Sciences in Economics. Concentration. Okay. Um, and so I'll go ahead and start with the first question. Um, so cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music, and a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. Ottawa was a bilingual institution, and we want to better understand how Anglophones and Francophones related together. Um, So, um, good. Interesting. Yes. Were there less electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s? And how was your leisure time structured? Or what did you Ottawa students do for fun in the 1970s? So that's the question. Yes. Um, these you I guess It's so different now, so i'm trying to go back then. I mean it was uh, I guess we all live for fridays Friday the end of the week things were structured now. I was telling you earlier my profile You know, I had come to faith to a living faith in jesus christ. So that You know, that sort of ordered a lot of my leisure time. Um, so instead of going to parties and having loud music on Fridays, we would go to, you know, Bible studies and, and, you know, with people who, you know, have a common faith. So, you know, it was like a Friday night, you know, you did something Friday night. You live for it. Um, I, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, you did live for the weekend. Yeah. The Saturday Sundays in terms of leisure time, you know, I was getting away from sports. You know, you're growing up. There's a lot of homework. I'm just trying to think of Saturdays. I think you still got together. You slept in. You got together with friends. I, um, I worked so But one thing for me was I worked in the summer to pay tuition and books and I lived at home. So I did not work from September to April. That was like, I was a full time student. So it was quite leisurely. A lot of other fellow students had jobs, you know, they, they had to, you know, to, to go through university. So that was not my, uh, my, uh, experience. Yeah. Um, and uh, just, just one quick follow up for that, you mentioned tuition fees, um, I was just wondering what were tuition fees like, were they, you know, as, as, as university as expensive as it was now back then, or? No way. Well, I mean, you know, the value of things were lower, but yeah, my brother, there were two of us, my brother went. To University of Ottawa a year ahead of me and his fees I think were 650 for the year. Um, but when I started they were hiked up to 750 for the, you know, for the full year. The two, I don't know what you call it, two semesters of September to April. Yeah, you paid a little extra if you took a summer course, that's that's about 20 times less than I'm paying right now. Um, ouch. Yeah, it was a good education. It wasn't cheap. Yeah, I mean, but it was, uh, yes. Yeah, man, I don't know how people do it today. But I was getting look, I had a summer job, you know, year two, I was getting I got a promotion. Think the first week I was there and I it was to 2 an hour. So, you know, in 1974, so, so that's, you know, try and put it in perspective, 2 an hour. I lived at home, I didn't have to pay room and board. So it was really just to get tuition and books and a little bit of pocket money, you know, so that's, yeah, anyway, yeah, that's insane. And so did you attend any live music events during your university years? Yeah, um, I go over, you know what? I was an Anglophone. So, I think a lot of friends, you know, from high school, because you're still keeping your high school friends a bit until you lose them, because they'll go to Toronto or Carleton. Oh, I'm not supposed to mention that name. Um, but I, I, There were some hangouts at Carleton University I'd go to, and uh, we saw good blues artists and, you know, that's, that was more popular for me to go to Carleton if I did go somewhere, um, a pub or I don't know, some kind of open, band. Wouldn't be like famous rock stars like, you know, Kiss and Alice Cooper and Grand Funk Railroad and those things. But I had stopped pretty well going to rock shows. Yeah. If you ask me my taste of music, it stopped in 1973. We'd hitchhike to Montreal for a dollar, we'd see the Allman Brothers, Chicago, dollar Friday nights at, uh, in Montreal. So those were the days when there was a good rock band. Now, how much are Metallica tickets? Uh, 200 bucks. Yeah. We used to break in because we didn't want to pay five bucks to get in. Yeah. But that was before I was a university student. Um, and did Anglophones and Francophones date each other during the 1970s? Did they, what date did they date each other? Yeah, I'm sure they did, but. I had a girlfriend outside of university, I, you know, I wasn't really an integrated university, like I didn't live in the dorm. Right. I'm sort of not, you know, the ideal one to ask. But I found there weren't a lot of francophones, like I didn't hang out. The francophones, even in economics, took other courses. Because I took the English courses. They took the French courses, you know, in year two, let's say, so I wouldn't hang out much with French. I mean, you know, it wasn't an animosity. It just, right. It just didn't hang out. You know, you, you did things in English and, um, we had more international students, so we would have, you know, Europeans or some from developing countries. Um, so there wasn't a lot of integration, I would say, to be honest. I mean, it wasn't animosity, just. The English did the English thing and the French did the French thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, and speaking of international stuff, um, what did the student body think about the Vietnam War? You know, it was, it's an interesting one. I was less politicized. Less political, you know, the, the, the, the demonstrations were prior to 73, you know, I know they left Saigon and it fell in 75, but, um, I'm trying to think of all the events, but we were against the war in Vietnam. That, that was. I think that was pretty obvious. Yeah. Yeah. We were against the war in Vietnam. It just didn't make sense. It didn't make sense in 1970. It didn't make sense in 1973. I'm trying to think. Yeah, there were other issues. You know, it's funny you asked that one. The big issue I remember is the Arab oil embargo, the Yom Kippur War. Those were bigger issues to me at my time, you know, my specific time. Nixon resigning. You know, the whole Watergate thing. So it wasn't as international because it was, you know, looking at the States and Nixon and, and Watergate that was consuming a lot of time. The price of oil was quadrupled by the Arabs. You know, it changed, you know, we were in hyperinflation. Oh, that was more in the eighties. I'm just trying to think there was a lot of inflation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was a little later. But price oil went up. Those were the things that, that were front of mind. Yom Kippur War, the whole idea of Israel losing, uh, Egypt, Sadat, 75 Sadat, and um, what's his name? Uh, was it Begin? Or Golda Meiri? You know, it was, you know, I'm forgetting, but it was, those were the events. The Middle East, And, uh, Watergate were big. Vietnam was like, get out. It was obvious. it wasn't. And we were in Canada, right? I mean, if we were in the States, it might have been different if your number would have come up. Now, I do remember being in front of the American Embassy on Wellington Street, and a friend of mine, he was, his dad was a diplomat. a U. S. diplomat living in Ottawa, and he burnt his draft card, you know, that was, you know, and um, nuclear testing in Amchitka, you know, those were some of the events. Maybe it was small time. Anyway, yeah, I don't know if that helps. Um, and so going back to, um, to rock music, um, did your parents, how did they view rock music? Did they view it as more rebellious or, um, what did they think about it at the time? No, they were, they liked it. Yeah. Yeah. My dad was as cool. Yeah, they, they didn't mind us. I mean, they let our hair was very long. I had my hair down to my belt. I mean, 73, 74. I guess I got a cut for the, I could, I could dig out my, my student card if you want. I could send you a copy on. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but, uh, yeah. Um, no, they were cool. It wasn't, I didn't have a battle with my parents. So I wasn't like, it wasn't like alienation. He encouraged us. We'd come home and we'd talk about what we just learned. And he'd, you know, talk about what he knew, you know, because, uh, my dad was a history major. He did his MA in University of Montreal. He went to Georgetown before the war, and then the war interrupted. His dad was a diplomat, so they got sent back to Italy during the war. So they were stuck in Rome, you know, with the Nazis and everything. So, um, he came back to Canada because he was born here. And finished his history degree on NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Interesting. Okay. Um, so my final question for this section is, um, about drugs. Um, what extent were drugs available? On campus during the 1970s, were they easy to find or yeah, I don't know because I had stopped doing them back in the 70s. You know, you had to it's sort of like a secret society. You had to say like if that person does drugs and I can talk to them about it. If that person you don't think does it then it's like straight versus, you know, whatever. It's like, yeah. It's like it was a bit of a secret society. It may have probably on the campus. It was a little more open because, you know, there's no police and adults anymore, but, uh, I, I don't know what experiences I didn't look for. I didn't do it then. So. And people avoided me probably. So, you know, it was more drinking, I think, cause there was more pubs. It was all legal. Everything was illegal back then. So, so that's why it was a secret society kind of thing. If your hair was long, you know, that's you're 95 percent sure he took drugs, you know? Yeah. So that was a safe house, safe bet. Okay, so we'll move on to the second question, which is about the female experience. Um, and, you know, about feminism and, and whatnot. Um, so, cultural historians have written a lot about what they call second wave feminism. That as a part of the counterculture movement, women during the early 1970s sought to break down gender barriers. Does this argument resonate with 1970s? A little. I, again, I didn't hang out. It wasn't very political, uh, but, um, you know, besides everyone burning their bras, the only, there were a couple of experiences I think I had. One was we were in a course. Now, this was at the master's level or maybe it was fourth year or something. And, you know, we're just starting the course. It was an economics course. And a woman came up to the front. I didn't know her. So she must have been in other studies. She didn't hang out in the economics department and started attacking the professor about, uh, I don't know, what do you call it? Oppression women, oppression of women. And he was talking about economics. Like, you know, I had nothing to do with women. Like it was, it was a wrong topic to bring up. And I think there must have been a lot, a lot more activism. But I wasn't part of it. You know, I think there was a lot of mobilization discussion, but groups were more closed. Now everything's in the open. I mean, but, but back then things were a lot, lot more closed. There was a time to come out time to, to, you know, get all your act together and then come out. But I wasn't heavily involved. I mean, it was there. I think one, one thing that that and I'll tell you my attitude. It's not general, but mine would have been we went to Montreal. This is what was happening everywhere. It was about abortion. And I always thought and I had a girlfriend. So that's why I wasn't dating on campus and looking at girls, you know, I mean, they were there, but, uh, you know, I had a steady girlfriend outside of campus. So, you know, Um, we went to Montreal and there was this big thing against abortion, and I just thought, and this is me. I wasn't maybe politically aware, thought, well, that's never gonna be an issue with me. I don't care. Like, I mean, I don't agree with it, but it's not my issue. I'm not gonna have to do an abortion. My wife, you know, my girlfriend won't. Like, that was my thinking at the time. , you know, we were young, you know, uh, but that was, there was a lot of, and I didn't. I just wasn't clued in to a lot of that, um, movement because it was just not my movement. Even if someone said, well, that's terrible. It's like, it's a non issue. It's like evolution to me. People believe we come from monkeys. I think it's the most ridiculous thing. So I don't even, I just don't even think it's a thought to argue. It just doesn't make sense. You know, when I was younger, I thought, how do they believe that? You know, it just was just not natural. So I'm not very political that way. You know, here are the arguments. I can see why you say that. But, you know, I wasn't a debater. Yeah. Did you, did you feel like a lot of other people on campus were the same way as well? I would say half and half. No, there were political people, people who had issues and, you know, had more issues, but in the economics department, there was a recession, you know, like it was about getting jobs, like I wasn't in arts, like I think depends where you were in economics. It was like business economics. We were there to graduate and get a career and get jobs. Other places were there. They were there to You know, like history, all the arts, everyone was there and they had an agenda, but again, we were a bit, you know, off the beaten track. I think the French were more the French side of social sciences. Were more active because of the, um, what do you call it, separatism was, you know, René Lévesque was premier in Quebec. He was a separatist. So, so there was a lot of the separatist French stuff going on again, being in Ontario and Anglophone. You know, I wasn't anti separatist, but I wasn't pro, you know, I think I was a bit too neutral. Yeah. And, and we had the big problem. And I don't know if you do this in history, we had a problem to define, like, what's a Canadian? And the Canadian is he's neither British nor American, you know, like there was no strong definition of what a Canadian was at the time. And, you know, Trudeau was in power and he had, he was a strong leader and, and, you know, we liked him at the time, you know, he was young, he was, you know, liberal and that kind of thing. So. I guess in hindsight, I would maybe say different things, but we were positive, you know, that's why when someone talks about justice, I remember his dad, you know, those were fun times. Yeah. Um, okay. And, um, did you feel like, uh, in, in clubs and programs, did you feel like women were less present or accepted, or did you feel like it was more equal? In, in where? In, in, um, clubs and departments. Well, economics was male dominated. I don't even think there was one, one woman. There was, there was one in, in, you know, in principles course, you know, I took that when I was, you know, in the arts faculty year one, but by the time, you know, if I wanted to do economics, it was, it was male dominated. So, uh, women didn't have interest in it at the time, I think. It was, yeah, at that time, they were, that was something to break into, uh, was it, was it biased? No, I, I would try to think, I mean, we had, it was probably just how things were. So there was a bit of male dominance back in the seventies, but you know, I wouldn't notice it because I wasn't a female. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I'm not prejudiced. You know, we should allow one woman in the economics department. You know what I mean? It's like the thinking is, is just. You just don't think outside that box, right? Um, okay. And so the next part is, uh, to what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize for a just society and better world to mobilize? I think you caught us at a time where we were tired. Of it. You know, I think in the 60s, people were mobilizing and nothing happened. So people are tired of it. So I think I was of that generation. I mean, I wasn't tired because I was a bit too young in the 60s, you know, but I think, you know, I was quite young compared to the others. So I would say there was, um There was some mobilization, you know, against the, the farm workers, Cesar Chavez, I'm trying to think some other kind of things, but the separatist thing was a French only concern, a French Canadian concern. I ran into a Palestinian who wanted to, you know, destroy Israel. You know, I saw that in in the 70s. He was an international student and the hatred. It was just a natural hatred. He had was helping him with because their English wasn't very good. You know, the foreign students, they had issues with the language with English or French. So, um, I wouldn't say it was 100%. It was there were camps. It was an integrated. Um, okay. And, uh, looking back at the 1970s, what aspect of Canadian society did you see as most out of whack and in need of fixing? I was too young to know these things. What was out of whack? Trying to think. Surely was. Well, don't forget it was Russia, Soviet Union, and the United States. You know what I mean? It was... There were, like, we were under the threat of nuclear war. This was way before the Berlin Wall fell. Like, we, you know, that was what we grew up in. That fear, you know, there's good and evil. The way it was painted. But, uh, just trying to think, you know, I'm just trying to go through some of the things, you know, like urban poverty. You know, for me, I guess it was, there was more of a spiritual side than a material side. At the time. I think that was right. Those were also the things thought of the Beatles went to India and got disillusioned. It was the Jesus movement, which, you know, affected me and changed me. And, you know, there were spiritual side of things that needed fixing. Uh, so we saw that be, you know, there's, there were a lot of class and I'm just trying to think of, I think at the time. Being in economics, I'm trying to think of, you know, I didn't want to make something up, right? Was that the government could take care of things more and think it out. I think that was the sense as a Keynesian versus monetarism, you know, that was the economics argument. Should there be more government or none? Should we leave it alone because that's optimal? Or should we, you know, fix things? And to me, that was, That's where I saw, uh, the focus, and it was, you know, a national thing, you know, in Canada, it was, you know, a continental thing, you know, North American, the rich countries, and then it was world, the poverty, how do we step in and fix world poverty, I think that was my focus, so I wasn't a feminist, but I, I did, and I did focus on developing countries, to say, well, can't we fix, can't, what is, what's the broken thing that we can insert ourselves with, Not capitalistically, but the government, you know, as a, you know, as a, what do you call it? A countervailing power, you know, like a, there's a power in the marketplace. The government has, and the government should be the smart about, you know, the just society that Trudeau was talking about. Right. Pierre, Pierre Elliott. But, uh. That's the only thing I remember in terms of justice was, can't we, you know, solve the poverty problem, like country poverty, people poverty, you know, that was it, the equity thing, and economics didn't have an answer. You know, the economics says, well, you got what you got and you work with that. And it didn't have an answer for poverty, so there were, you know, there were things people were trying to do. Yeah. But that was, yeah, that would be the, the issue that I remember. Mm hmm. Um, and talking about the government, did you feel that the political system was democratic, fair, and responsive to citizens needs? Or did you feel like there 70s. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think, I think I was pro government at the time. You know, I think they could, they were, they were positive. I mean, I didn't look at all the inequities, you know, I was quite young and immature, but yeah, I felt that there was a positive, government had a positive potential in society. Um, and, um, I know you, you talked about abortion earlier, and I think this next question also has to do with abortion. So I'll read the prompt here. Cultural historians have argued that introduction of the birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s. Do you agree with this statement? I would agree, but I didn't experience it, but I mean, if you can't get pregnant, then, you know, go for it. You know what I mean? To me, uh, that was my constraint when I was wanting to, you know, uh, get intimate with, uh, you know, a girlfriend as a young teenager. That was always my constraint. You know, I'm not getting her pregnant, so we better not go, you know what I mean, let's be honest. Yeah. This is being recorded. Yeah. But, um, it wasn't my issue in this, you know, by the time I was in university, I had, you know, I had already been, you know. You know, Manti abortion, but definitely the answer is it certainly changed changed everything. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and how did your generation look at family and marriage? Yeah, it's a good thing is what, uh, what you strive for sort of a, an ambition in a sense you want to Get a, you know, get an education, a career, start a family, get married and start a family. Yeah, very traditional. Mm hmm. Yeah, I would say. I mean, there were some that just, let's just live common law. There was a lot of common law, I think, but I think that it was fairly traditional at the time. Yeah. Uh, okay. Well, you were answering that question. I got a thing from zoom saying the meeting is going to end in nine minutes if I don't pay. Um, Oh, minutes, we can always do another one, right? Yeah, I think we can. I can just Yeah. Okay. Okay, so I'll go over the last section here. Just a disclaimer, this one is, it has to do with, I believe, sexual violence. Um, and sexual harassment. So if there's anything you don't want to answer, that's, that's totally fine. Um, so... There was a lot. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot. Yeah. The girls didn't fight back like they used to, but I hear some bad things. Anyway, what's the question? Okay, so the first question. Many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment. To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe? I would say zero, but I don't know. I didn't really, you know, I was underage. I think, I don't know. I didn't really go drinking and hanging out and, you know, only maybe to talk to people, but I didn't go as, as a habit. Um, you know, not go to pick up girls. Cause I had a girlfriend throughout university, but I don't, I don't think there was, you know, there'd just be a secure bouncer for someone who might be, you know, vandalizing, but I doubt there was any security for women. You know, uh, okay. So, uh, the next question is, uh, our generation is interested in a free love movement. What was the perception of premarital sex on the University of Ottawa campus in the 1970s? I don't know. And I think thinking people. Would not be, you know, 100 percent for what you just said, you know, it's not respectful, you know, I don't think it was free love. I mean, you find someone that you get along with and whatever happens happens. I mean, there was that freedom, but not not the way it, you know, it was talking about the 60s. I think it was less so. Yeah, I, you know, and Canada is not the same thing as the States and how you read about it. It was more conservative. Yeah Oh, I mean there was there that was talk but less action. Yeah, I would say yeah Busy studying a come on. It's a university Yeah, yeah, they couldn't It didn't have time in the books. Yeah and finally did members of your parents generation worry about premarital sex and Well, don't forget, you probably think that your parents never did sex except once or twice to have your brother and you or something, you know, you, you know, we, we didn't, we don't picture them as sexual objects back then. I think now everything's, you know, much more in the open, but, um, I'm sure they worried about it. They, they knew about it. You know, it's hard to know. The impression is there was a lot more self control. That's the impression I get. There was a lot more conventions that stopped you from being free. I mean, you know, there were segregations and reputation. People don't care about their reputation anymore. Right. Right? Yeah. Men should be honorable. Women should have a reputation. That's not even in the vocabulary. But I think back then there was still a bit of, well, you're talking about my parents generation. That was serious stuff, yeah. There were a lot more conventions that helped prevent, uh, you know, premarital sex. Um, and so I, I guess it's sort of a religious thing too. Well, it's biblical based and there was a lot more church on Sunday. Yeah. In Canada, you know, like, so it's the standards, right? Yeah. How, uh, that's only gonna three rings and I won't touch it. Yeah. ? Um, probably a scammer. . Yeah. Yeah. That's changed from 50 years ago. Yeah. You, you would always answer the phone. 10 rings is minimum. Yeah. You have to let it ring. Um, and I guess speaking about religion, just a follow up question is like, how, how religious would you say campus was and, and how, how? Like tied to religion was your university experience. It was present. Don't forget in the seventies, it was not a Catholic university formally. I think it was, it was separate, but there are a lot of priest teachers. I had a priest, um, father bro, who, uh, taught public finance. Uh, they were, you know, they were a presence on campus, but it was very, it was secular, uh, yeah, I think it was, I took a religion class. In first year, that was very secular. It was Irish guy who taught it, you know, but I think there was a bit of respect. I mean, you're trying to learn things. It was, you know, there was respect and rebellion, you know, mix, but I don't think it was that it wasn't, it wasn't anti, you know, it was, I don't know how to describe it. It was, a place of ideas and negative ideas about church and religion, but it was, I would say a lot more respectful. Hello. Back then than it is now. People aren't respectful today. So that's, that's why, you know, it was, you know, if you didn't like church, you just don't go. You know, you weren't gonna throw rocks at it or paint or... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. well that, that was interesting. , I learned a lot. , so thank you. and that's pretty much it for the interview. Transcription Translation On y va. Euh, d'accord. Donc, euh, c'est, euh, l'interview. Euh, tu veux aller de l'avant et te présenter? Je m'appelle Philip Bonardelli. J'étais étudiant à l'Université d'Ottawa et j'ai obtenu ma maîtrise en économie. Et j'ai aussi fait un premier cycle à la, euh, Faculté des Sciences Sociales. Euh, Baccalauréat spécialisé en Sciences Sociales en économie. Concentration. D'accord. Euh, et donc je vais aller de l'avant et commencer par la première question. Euh, donc les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et une culture de consommation construite autour des automobiles ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée. Ottawa était une institution bilingue, et nous voulons mieux comprendre comment les anglophones et les francophones se sont liés ensemble. Euh, Donc, euh, bien. Intéressant. Oui. Y avait-il moins d'électronique dans la société canadienne au cours des années 1970? Et comment votre temps libre a-t-il été structuré? Ou qu'est-ce que vous, les étudiants d'Ottawa, faisiez pour vous amuser dans les années 1970? C'est donc la question. Oui. Euh, ces toi, je suppose que c'est tellement différent maintenant, alors j'essaie d'y retourner à l'époque. Je veux dire, c'était euh, je suppose que nous vivons tous le vendredi vendredi à la fin de la semaine, les choses étaient structurées maintenant. Je vous disais plus tôt mon profil, Vous savez, j'étais venu à la foi à une foi vivante en Jésus-Christ. Pour que Vous sachiez, cela a en quelque sorte commandé une grande partie de mon temps libre. Donc, au lieu d'aller à des fêtes et d'avoir de la musique forte le vendredi, nous allions à, vous savez, des études bibliques et, et, vous savez, avec des gens qui, vous savez, ont une foi commune. Donc, tu sais, c'était comme un vendredi soir, tu sais, tu as fait quelque chose vendredi soir. Tu vis pour ça. Euh, je, tu sais, je pense juste, tu sais, tu as vécu le week-end. Ouais. Les samedis dimanches en termes de temps libre, vous savez, je m'éloignais du sport. Tu sais, tu grandis. Il y a beaucoup de devoirs. J'essaie juste de penser aux samedis. Je pense que vous êtes toujours ensemble. Tu as dormi dedans. Tu t'es réuni avec des amis. Je, euh, je travaillais tellement Mais une chose pour moi était que je travaillais l'été pour payer les frais de scolarité et les livres et je vivais à la maison. Je n'ai donc pas travaillé de septembre à avril. C'était comme, j'étais un étudiant à temps plein. C'était donc assez tranquille. Beaucoup d'autres camarades étudiants avaient un travail, vous savez, ils, ils devaient, vous savez, passer par l'université. Donc ce n'était pas mon, euh, mon, euh, expérience. Ouais. Euh, et euh, juste, juste un petit suivi pour ça, vous avez mentionné les frais de scolarité, euh, je me demandais juste à quoi ressemblaient les frais de scolarité, étaient-ils, vous savez, aussi, aussi chers que l'université l'était maintenant à l'époque, ou? Il n'en est pas question. Eh bien, je veux dire, tu sais, la valeur des choses était inférieure, mais oui, mon frère, nous étions deux, mon frère est parti. À l'Université d'Ottawa un an avant moi et ses frais, je crois, étaient de 650 pour l'année. Euh, mais quand j'ai commencé, ils ont été augmentés jusqu'à 750 pour, vous savez, pour toute l'année. Les deux, je ne sais pas comment vous appelez ça, deux semestres de septembre à avril. Ouais, tu payais un petit supplément si tu suivais un cours d'été, c'est environ 20 fois moins que ce que je paie en ce moment. Euh, aïe. Ouais, c'était une bonne éducation. Ce n'était pas bon marché. Ouais, je veux dire, mais c'était, euh, oui. Ouais, mec, je ne sais pas comment les gens font ça aujourd'hui. Mais je commençais à chercher, j'avais un travail d'été, vous savez, la deuxième année, je commençais à avoir une promotion. Je pense que la première semaine où j'étais là-bas et moi c'était à 2 heures. Donc, vous savez, en 1974, donc, alors c'est, vous savez, essayez de mettre les choses en perspective, 2 par heure. Je vivais à la maison, je n'avais pas à payer la chambre et la pension. Donc c'était vraiment juste pour avoir des frais de scolarité et des livres et un peu d'argent de poche, vous savez, donc c'est, ouais, de toute façon, ouais, c'est fou. Et avez-vous assisté à des événements musicaux en direct pendant vos années universitaires? Ouais, euh, je vais là-bas, tu sais quoi? J'étais anglophone. Donc, je pense que beaucoup d'amis, vous savez, du secondaire, parce que vous gardez encore un peu vos amis du secondaire jusqu'à ce que vous les perdiez, parce qu'ils iront à Toronto ou à Carleton. Oh, je ne suis pas censé mentionner ce nom. Euh, mais je, Je, Il y avait des lieux de rencontre à l'Université Carleton où j'allais, et euh, nous avons vu de bons artistes de blues et, vous savez, c'était, c'était plus populaire pour moi d'aller à Carleton si j'allais quelque part, euh, un pub ou je ne sais pas, une sorte de groupe ouvert. Ce ne serait pas comme des stars du rock célèbres comme, vous savez, Kiss et Alice Cooper et Grand Funk Railroad et ces trucs. Mais j'avais assez bien arrêté d'aller aux concerts de rock. Ouais. Si vous me demandez mes goûts musicaux, ça s'est arrêté en 1973. On faisait de l'auto-stop à Montréal pour un dollar, on voyait les Allman Brothers, Chicago, dollar les vendredis soirs à, euh, à Montréal. C'était donc l'époque où il y avait un bon groupe de rock. Maintenant, combien coûtent les billets de Metallica? Euh, 200 dollars. Ouais. Nous avions l'habitude d'entrer par effraction parce que nous ne voulions pas payer cinq dollars pour entrer. Ouais. Mais c'était avant que je sois étudiant à l'université. Euh, et est-ce que les Anglophones et les francophones se fréquentaient pendant les années 1970? Est-ce qu'ils, à quelle date se sont-ils fréquentés? Ouais, je suis sûr qu'ils l'ont fait, mais. J'avais une petite amie en dehors de l'université, je, vous savez, je n'étais pas vraiment une université intégrée, comme je ne vivais pas dans le dortoir. Bien. Je ne suis en quelque sorte pas, vous savez, l'idéal à demander. Mais j'ai trouvé qu'il n'y avait pas beaucoup de francophones, comme je ne traînais pas. Les francophones, même en économie, suivaient d'autres cours. Parce que j'ai suivi les cours d'anglais. Ils ont suivi les cours de français, vous savez, en deuxième année, disons, donc je ne passerais pas beaucoup de temps avec le français. Je veux dire, tu sais, ce n'était pas une animosité. C'est juste, d'accord. Ça n'a tout simplement pas traîné. Vous savez, vous, vous avez fait des choses en anglais et, euh, nous avions plus d'étudiants internationaux, donc nous aurions, vous savez, des Européens ou certains des pays en développement. Euh, donc il n'y avait pas beaucoup d'intégration, je dirais, pour être honnête. Je veux dire, ce n'était pas de l'animosité, juste. Les Anglais ont fait le truc anglais et les Français ont fait le truc français. Ouais, ouais. Euh, et en parlant de choses internationales, euh, qu'est-ce que le corps étudiant pensait de la guerre du Vietnam? Tu sais, c'était, c'est intéressant. J'étais moins politisé. Moins politique, vous savez, les manifestations étaient avant 73, vous savez, je sais qu'ils ont quitté Saigon et c'est tombé en 75, mais, euh, j'essaie de penser à tous les événements, mais nous étions contre la guerre au Vietnam. Ça, c'était ça. Je pense que c'était assez évident. Ouais. Ouais. Nous étions contre la guerre au Vietnam. Ça n'avait tout simplement pas de sens. Cela n'avait aucun sens en 1970. Cela n'avait aucun sens en 1973. J'essaie de réfléchir. Oui, il y avait d'autres problèmes. Tu sais, c'est drôle que tu aies demandé ça. Le gros problème dont je me souviens est l'embargo pétrolier arabe, la guerre du Kippour. C'étaient des problèmes plus importants pour moi à mon époque, vous savez, mon époque spécifique. Nixon démissionne. Tu sais, tout le truc du Watergate. Donc ce n'était pas aussi international parce que c'était, vous savez, en regardant les États et Nixon et, et le Watergate qui prenait beaucoup de temps. Le prix du pétrole a été quadruplé par les Arabes. Vous savez, ça a changé, vous savez, nous étions en hyperinflation. Oh, c'était plus dans les années quatre-vingt. J'essaie juste de penser qu'il y avait beaucoup d'inflation. Ouais. Ouais. Ouais. C'était un peu plus tard. Mais le prix du pétrole a augmenté. C'étaient les choses qui, qui étaient devant l'esprit. La guerre du Kippour, l'idée qu'Israël perde, euh, l'Egypte, Sadate, 75 Sadate, et euh, comment s'appelle-t-il? Euh, ça a commencé? Ou Golda Meiri? Tu sais, c'était, tu sais, j'oublie, mais c'était, c'étaient les événements. Le Moyen-Orient Et, euh, le Watergate étaient importants. Le Vietnam était comme, sors. C'était évident. ce n'était pas le cas. Et nous étions au Canada, n'est-ce pas? Je veux dire, si nous étions aux États-Unis, ça aurait pu être différent si votre numéro était apparu. Maintenant, je me souviens d'avoir été devant l'ambassade américaine sur Wellington Street, et un de mes amis, il l'était, son père était diplomate. un diplomate américain vivant à Ottawa, et il a brûlé son projet de carte, vous savez, c'était, vous savez, et euh, les essais nucléaires à Amchitka, vous savez, c'étaient certains des événements. C'était peut-être un petit moment. Bref, ouais, je ne sais pas si ça aide. Euh, et donc pour en revenir à, euh, à la musique rock, euh, est-ce que tes parents, comment voyaient-ils la musique rock? Est-ce qu'ils le considéraient comme plus rebelle ou, euh, qu'en pensaient-ils à l'époque? Non, ils l'étaient, ils aimaient ça. Ouais. Ouais. Mon père était aussi cool. Ouais, ils, ils ne se souciaient pas de nous. Je veux dire, ils ont laissé nos cheveux très longs. J'avais mes cheveux jusqu'à ma ceinture. Je veux dire, 73, 74. Je suppose que j'ai une coupure pour le, je pourrais, je pourrais déterrer ma, ma carte d'étudiant si tu veux. Je pourrais vous en envoyer une copie. Ouais. Ouais. Tu sais, mais, euh, ouais. Euh, non, ils étaient cool. Ce n'était pas le cas, je ne me suis pas battu avec mes parents. Donc je n'étais pas comme, ce n'était pas comme de l'aliénation. Il nous a encouragés. On rentrait à la maison et on parlait de ce qu'on venait d'apprendre. Et il, tu sais, parlait de ce qu'il savait, tu sais, parce que, euh, mon père était un étudiant en histoire. Il a fait sa maîtrise à l'Université de Montréal. Il est allé à Georgetown avant la guerre, puis la guerre s'est interrompue. Son père était diplomate, alors ils ont été renvoyés en Italie pendant la guerre. Donc ils étaient coincés à Rome, vous savez, avec les nazis et tout. Donc, euh, il est revenu au Canada parce qu'il est né ici. Et a terminé ses études d'histoire sur l'OTAN et le Pacte de Varsovie. Intéressant. D'accord. Euh, donc ma dernière question pour cette section est, euh, sur les drogues. Dans quelle mesure les médicaments étaient-ils disponibles? Sur le campus dans les années 1970, étaient-ils faciles à trouver ou oui, je ne sais pas parce que j'avais arrêté de les faire dans les années 70. Tu sais, il fallait que ce soit un peu comme une société secrète. Tu devais dire comme si cette personne se droguait et que je pouvais lui en parler. Si cette personne, selon vous, ne le fait pas, alors c'est comme hétéro contre, vous savez, peu importe. C'est comme, ouais. C'est comme si c'était un peu une société secrète. C'est peut-être probablement sur le campus. C'était un peu plus ouvert parce que, vous savez, il n'y a plus de policiers et d'adultes, mais, euh, je, je ne sais pas quelles expériences je n'ai pas recherchées. Je ne l'ai pas fait alors. Alors. Et les gens m'évitaient probablement. Donc, tu sais, il buvait plus, je pense, parce qu'il y avait plus de pubs. Tout était légal. Tout était illégal à l'époque. Donc, c'est pourquoi c'était une sorte de société secrète. Si tes cheveux étaient longs, tu sais, c'est que tu es sûr à 95% qu'il a pris de la drogue, tu sais? Ouais. C'était donc une maison sûre, une valeur sûre. D'accord, nous allons donc passer à la deuxième question, qui concerne l'expérience féminine. Euh, et, vous savez, sur le féminisme et, et ainsi de suite. Les historiens de la culture ont beaucoup écrit sur ce qu'ils appellent le féminisme de la deuxième vague. Qu'au début des années 1970, dans le cadre du mouvement de la contre-culture, les femmes ont cherché à éliminer les barrières entre les sexes. Cet argument résonne-t-il avec les années 1970? Un peu. Moi, encore une fois, je n'ai pas traîné. Ce n'était pas très politique, euh, mais, euh, vous savez, à part tout le monde qui brûle ses soutiens-gorge, le seul, il y a eu quelques expériences que je pense avoir eues. L'un était que nous étions dans un cours. Maintenant, c'était au niveau de la maîtrise ou peut-être c'était la quatrième année ou quelque chose comme ça. Et, vous savez, nous commençons tout juste le cours. C'était un cours d'économie. Et une femme est venue au front. Je ne la connaissais pas. Donc elle devait être dans d'autres études. Elle ne traînait pas au département d'économie et a commencé à attaquer le professeur à propos de, euh, je ne sais pas, comment appelez-vous cela? Oppression des femmes, oppression des femmes. Et il parlait d'économie. Comme, tu sais, je n'avais rien à voir avec les femmes. Comme c'était le cas, c'était un mauvais sujet à aborder. Et je pense qu'il devait y avoir beaucoup, beaucoup plus d'activisme. Mais je n'en faisais pas partie. Vous savez, je pense qu'il y a eu beaucoup de discussions sur la mobilisation, mais les groupes étaient plus fermés. Maintenant, tout est à découvert. Je veux dire, mais, mais à l'époque, les choses étaient beaucoup, beaucoup plus fermées. Il y avait un temps pour sortir, un temps pour, vous savez, rassembler tous vos actes et ensuite sortir. Mais je n'étais pas très impliqué. Je veux dire, c'était là. Je pense une, une chose que cela et je vais vous dire mon attitude. Ce n'est pas général, mais le mien aurait été que nous soyons allés à Montréal. C'est ce qui se passait partout. C'était à propos de l'avortement. Et j'ai toujours pensé et j'avais une petite amie. C'est pour ça que je ne sortais pas sur le campus et que je ne regardais pas les filles, tu sais, je veux dire, elles étaient là, mais, euh, tu sais, j'avais une petite amie stable en dehors du campus. Donc, vous savez, Euh, nous sommes allés à Montréal et il y avait cette grande chose contre l'avortement, et j'ai juste pensé, et c'est moi. Je n'étais peut-être pas politiquement conscient, je pensais, eh bien, ça ne sera jamais un problème avec moi. Je m'en fiche. Comme, je veux dire, je ne suis pas d'accord avec ça, mais ce n'est pas mon problème. Je n'aurai pas à me faire avorter. Ma femme, tu sais, ma copine ne le fera pas, c'était ma pensée à l'époque. , tu sais, nous étions jeunes, tu sais, euh, mais c'était, il y en avait beaucoup, et je ne l'ai pas fait. Je n'étais tout simplement pas au courant de beaucoup de ces mouvements, euh, parce que ce n'était tout simplement pas mon mouvement. Même si quelqu'un disait, eh bien, c'est terrible. C'est comme, c'est un non problème. C'est comme l'évolution pour moi. Les gens croient que nous venons de singes. Je pense que c'est la chose la plus ridicule. Donc je ne pense même pas, je ne pense même pas que ce soit une idée de discuter. Ça n'a tout simplement pas de sens. Tu sais, quand j'étais plus jeune, je me demandais, comment croient-ils ça? Tu sais, ce n'était tout simplement pas naturel. Donc je ne suis pas très politique de cette façon. Vous savez, voici les arguments. Je comprends pourquoi tu dis ça. Mais, vous savez, je n'étais pas un débatteur. Ouais. Avez-vous, avez-vous eu l'impression que beaucoup d'autres personnes sur le campus étaient de la même manière? Je dirais moitié - moitié. Non, il y avait des politiciens, des gens qui avaient des problèmes et, vous savez, avaient plus de problèmes, mais dans le département d'économie, il y avait une récession, vous savez, comme s'il s'agissait de trouver des emplois, comme si je n'étais pas dans les arts, comme je pense que cela dépend de l'endroit où vous étiez en économie. C'était comme l'économie d'entreprise. Nous étions là pour obtenir notre diplôme et obtenir une carrière et des emplois. D'autres endroits étaient là. Ils étaient là pour vous le savez, comme l'histoire, tous les arts, tout le monde était là et ils avaient un programme, mais encore une fois, nous étions un peu, vous savez, hors des sentiers battus. Je pense que les Français étaient plus du côté français des sciences sociales. Étaient plus actifs à cause du, euh, comment appelez-vous cela, le séparatisme était, vous savez, René Lévesque était premier ministre au Québec. C'était un séparatiste. Donc, il y avait beaucoup de choses séparatistes françaises qui se passaient à nouveau, en Ontario et en anglais. Vous savez, je n'étais pas anti séparatiste, mais je n'étais pas pro, vous savez, je pense que j'étais un peu trop neutre. Ouais. Et, et nous avons eu le gros problème. Et je ne sais pas si vous faites cela dans l'histoire, nous avons eu un problème pour définir, par exemple, qu'est-ce qu'un Canadien? Et le Canadien n'est ni britannique ni américain, vous savez, comme s'il n'y avait pas de définition précise de ce qu'était un Canadien à l'époque. Et, vous savez, Trudeau était au pouvoir et il l'avait, c'était un leader fort et, et, vous savez, nous l'aimions à l'époque, vous savez, il était jeune, il était, vous savez, libéral et ce genre de chose. Alors. Je suppose qu'avec le recul, je dirais peut-être des choses différentes, mais nous étions positifs, vous savez, c'est pourquoi quand quelqu'un parle de justice, je me souviens de son père, vous savez, c'étaient des moments amusants. Ouais. Euh, d'accord. Et, euh, aviez-vous l'impression, euh, dans, dans les clubs et les programmes, aviez-vous l'impression que les femmes étaient moins présentes ou acceptées, ou aviez-vous l'impression que c'était plus égalitaire? Dans, où? Dans, dans, euh, les clubs et les départements. Eh bien, l'économie était dominée par les hommes. Je ne pense même pas qu'il y en ait eu une, une femme. Il y en avait un dans, vous savez, dans le cours sur les principes, vous savez, je l'ai suivi quand j'étais, vous savez, en première année de faculté des arts, mais à ce moment-là, vous savez, si je voulais faire de l'économie, c'était, c'était dominé par les hommes. Donc, euh, les femmes ne s'y intéressaient pas à l'époque, je pense. C'était, ouais, à ce moment-là, ils l'étaient, c'était quelque chose dans lequel s'introduire, euh, était-ce, était-ce biaisé? Non, je, j'essayais de penser, je veux dire, nous avions, c'était probablement juste comment les choses étaient. Il y avait donc un peu de domination masculine dans les années soixante-dix, mais vous savez, je ne le remarquerais pas parce que je n'étais pas une femme. Tu vois ce que je veux dire? Comme, c'est comme, je n'ai pas de préjugés. Vous savez, nous devrions autoriser une femme au département d'économie. Tu vois ce que je veux dire? C'est comme si la pensée était, était juste. Vous ne pensez tout simplement pas en dehors de cette boîte, n'est-ce pas? Euh, d'accord. Et donc la partie suivante est, euh, dans quelle mesure les gens de votre cercle social se considéraient-ils comme ayant besoin de se mobiliser pour une société juste et un monde meilleur mobiliser? Je pense que tu nous as surpris à un moment où nous étions fatigués. De ça. Vous savez, je pense que dans les années 60, les gens se mobilisaient et rien ne se passait. Alors les gens en ont marre. Donc je pense que j'étais de cette génération. Je veux dire, je n'étais pas fatigué parce que j'étais un peu trop jeune dans les années 60, vous savez, mais je pense, vous savez, j'étais assez jeune par rapport aux autres. Donc je dirais qu'il y a eu, euh Il y a eu une certaine mobilisation, vous savez, contre les ouvriers agricoles, César Chavez, j'essaie de penser à d'autres choses, mais le truc séparatiste était une préoccupation uniquement française, une préoccupation canadienne-française. J'ai rencontré un Palestinien qui voulait, vous savez, détruire Israël. Tu sais, j'ai vu ça dans les années 70. C'était un étudiant international et la haine. C'était juste une haine naturelle. Il l'avait aidé parce que leur anglais n'était pas très bon. Vous savez, les étudiants étrangers, ils avaient des problèmes avec la langue avec l'anglais ou le français. Donc, euh, je ne dirais pas que c'était à 100%. C'était qu'il y avait des camps. C'était un intégré. Euh, d'accord. Et, euh, en repensant aux années 1970, quel aspect de la société canadienne avez-vous considéré comme le plus détraqué et qui avait besoin d'être corrigé? J'étais trop jeune pour savoir ces choses. Qu'est-ce qui était détraqué? J'essaie de réfléchir. Sûrement était. Eh bien, n'oubliez pas que c'était la Russie, l'Union soviétique et les États-Unis. Tu vois ce que je veux dire? Ça l'était... Il y avait, comme, nous étions sous la menace d'une guerre nucléaire. C'était bien avant la chute du mur de Berlin. Comme, nous, vous savez, c'est dans ça qu'on a grandi. Cette peur, tu sais, il y a le bien et le mal. La façon dont il a été peint. Mais, euh, j'essaie juste de penser, tu sais, j'essaie juste de passer par certaines choses, tu sais, comme la pauvreté urbaine. Vous savez, pour moi, je suppose que c'était le cas, il y avait plus un côté spirituel qu'un côté matériel. À l'époque. Je pense que c'était juste. C'étaient aussi les choses que l'on pensait que les Beatles étaient allés en Inde et avaient été désillusionnés. C'était le mouvement de Jésus, qui, vous savez, m'a affecté et m'a changé. Et, vous savez, il y avait un côté spirituel des choses qui avait besoin d'être corrigé. Euh, donc on a vu que c'était, tu sais, il y a, il y avait beaucoup de cours et j'essaie juste de penser à, Je pense à l'époque. Étant en économie, j'essaie de penser, vous savez, je ne voulais pas inventer quelque chose, n'est-ce pas? Était-ce que le gouvernement pouvait s'occuper davantage des choses et y réfléchir. Je pense que c'était le sens en tant que keynésien par rapport au monétarisme, vous savez, c'était l'argument économique. Devrait-il y avoir plus de gouvernement ou pas? Devrions-nous le laisser tranquille parce que c'est optimal? Ou devrions-nous, vous savez, arranger les choses? Et pour moi, c'était, c'est là que j'ai vu, euh, l'accent, et c'était, vous savez, une chose nationale, vous savez, au Canada, c'était, vous savez, une chose continentale, vous savez, en Amérique du Nord, les pays riches, et puis c'était le monde, la pauvreté, comment pouvons-nous intervenir et réparer la pauvreté dans le monde, je pense que c'était mon objectif, donc je n'étais pas féministe, mais je, je l'ai fait, et je me suis concentré sur les pays en développement, pour dire, eh bien, ne pouvons-nous pas réparer, ne pouvons-nous pas, ce qui est, ce qui est cassé que nous pouvons insérons-nous avec, Non pas capitalistiquement, mais le gouvernement, vous savez, en tant que, vous savez, en tant que, comment appelez-vous cela? Un pouvoir compensateur, vous savez, comme un, il y a un pouvoir sur le marché. Le gouvernement a, et le gouvernement devrait être intelligent, vous savez, la société juste dont parlait Trudeau. Bien. Pierre Elliott. Mais, euh. C'est la seule chose dont je me souviens en termes de justice, c'était, ne pouvons-nous pas, vous savez, résoudre le problème de la pauvreté, comme la pauvreté des pays, la pauvreté des gens, vous savez, c'était ça, l'équité, et l'économie n'avait pas de réponse. Vous savez, l'économie dit, eh bien, vous avez ce que vous avez et vous travaillez avec ça. Et il n'y avait pas de réponse à la pauvreté, alors il y avait, vous savez, il y avait des choses que les gens essayaient de faire. Ouais. Mais c'était, oui, ce serait le, le problème dont je me souviens. Mm hmm. Euh, et en parlant du gouvernement, avez-vous senti que le système politique était démocratique, juste et sensible aux besoins des citoyens? Ou vous sentiez-vous comme dans les années 70. Ouais, je ne sais pas. Ouais, je pense, je pense que j'étais pro-gouvernement à l'époque. Tu sais, je pense qu'ils pouvaient, ils étaient, ils étaient positifs. Je veux dire, je n'ai pas regardé toutes les inégalités, vous savez, j'étais assez jeune et immature, mais oui, je sentais qu'il y avait un positif, le gouvernement avait un potentiel positif dans la société. Euh, et, euh, je vous connais, vous avez parlé de l'avortement plus tôt, et je pense que cette prochaine question a aussi à voir avec l'avortement. Je vais donc lire l'invite ici. Les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que l'introduction de la pilule contraceptive, la légalisation de l'avortement et la diffusion de l'idéologie de l'amour libre ont changé les relations entre les sexes et les pratiques de rencontres au début des années 1970. Êtes-vous d'accord avec cette affirmation? Je serais d'accord, mais je n'en ai pas fait l'expérience, mais je veux dire, si tu ne peux pas tomber enceinte, alors, tu sais, vas-y. Tu vois ce que je veux dire? Pour moi, euh, c'était ma contrainte quand je voulais, tu sais, euh, avoir des relations intimes avec, euh, tu sais, une petite amie quand j'étais jeune adolescent. Ça a toujours été ma contrainte. Tu sais, je ne vais pas la mettre enceinte, alors on ferait mieux de ne pas y aller, tu vois ce que je veux dire, soyons honnêtes. Ouais. Ceci est en train d'être enregistré. Ouais. Mais, euh, ce n'était pas mon problème là-dedans, tu sais, au moment où j'étais à l'université, j'avais, tu sais, je l'avais déjà été, tu sais. Vous savez, l'avortement Manti, mais la réponse est certainement que cela a certainement tout changé. Ouais. Ouais. Euh, et comment votre génération a-t-elle vu la famille et le mariage? Ouais, c'est une bonne chose, c'est ce que tu cherches en quelque sorte, une ambition dans le sens où tu veux avoir, tu sais, une éducation, une carrière, fonder une famille, se marier et fonder une famille. Ouais, très traditionnel. Mm hmm. Ouais, je dirais. Je veux dire, il y en avait qui, vivons simplement la common law. Il y avait beaucoup de common law, je pense, mais je pense que c'était assez traditionnel à l'époque. Ouais. Euh, d'accord. Eh bien, tu répondais à cette question. J'ai un truc de zoom qui dit que la réunion va se terminer dans neuf minutes si je ne paie pas. Euh, Oh, minutes, on peut toujours en faire un autre, non? Ouais, je pense qu'on peut. Je peux juste Ouais. D'accord. D'accord, je vais donc passer en revue la dernière section ici. Juste un avertissement, celui-ci est, il a à voir avec, je crois, la violence sexuelle. Euh, et le harcèlement sexuel. Donc, s'il y a quelque chose à quoi vous ne voulez pas répondre, c'est, c'est tout à fait bien. Euh, alors... Il y en avait beaucoup. Ouais. Oui, il y en avait beaucoup. Ouais. Les filles ne se sont pas battues comme avant, mais j'entends de mauvaises choses. De toute façon, quelle est la question? Ok, donc la première question. Aujourd'hui, de nombreuses universités ont été forcées de réprimer le harcèlement sexuel. Dans quelle mesure les autorités universitaires surveillaient-elles les mixeurs et les événements sociaux pour assurer la sécurité des femmes? Je dirais zéro, mais je ne sais pas. Je ne l'ai pas vraiment fait, tu sais, j'étais mineur. Je pense, je ne sais pas. Je n'allais pas vraiment boire et traîner et, vous savez, seulement peut-être pour parler aux gens, mais je n'y allais pas comme, comme une habitude. Euh, tu sais, pas aller chercher des filles. Parce que j'ai eu une petite amie tout au long de l'université, mais je ne pense pas, je ne pense pas qu'il y avait, vous savez, il y aurait juste un videur sécurisé pour quelqu'un qui pourrait, vous savez, vandaliser, mais je doute qu'il y ait une sécurité pour les femmes. Tu sais, euh, d'accord. Donc, euh, la question suivante est, euh, notre génération est intéressée par un mouvement d'amour libre. Quelle était la perception des relations sexuelles avant le mariage sur le campus de l'Université d'Ottawa dans les années 1970? Je ne sais pas. Et je pense que les gens réfléchissent. Je ne serais pas, tu sais, à 100% pour ce que tu viens de dire, tu sais, ce n'est pas respectueux, tu sais, je ne pense pas que c'était de l'amour libre. Je veux dire, tu trouves quelqu'un avec qui tu t'entends et quoi qu'il arrive arrive. Je veux dire, il y avait cette liberté, mais pas comme ça, vous savez, ça parlait des années 60. Je pense que c'était moins le cas. Ouais, je, vous savez, et le Canada n'est pas la même chose que les États-Unis et la façon dont vous lisez à ce sujet. C'était plus conservateur. Ouais Oh, je veux dire qu'il y avait là des discussions mais moins d'action. Ouais, je dirais ouais Occupé à étudier un come on. C'est une université Ouais, ouais, ils ne pouvaient pas Ça n'avait pas le temps dans les livres. Ouais et enfin, les membres de la génération de vos parents se sont-ils inquiétés des relations sexuelles avant le mariage et Eh bien, n'oubliez pas, vous pensez probablement que vos parents n'ont jamais fait l'amour sauf une ou deux fois pour avoir votre frère et vous ou quelque chose comme ça, vous savez, vous, vous savez, nous, nous ne l'avons pas fait, nous ne les imaginons pas comme des objets sexuels à l'époque. Je pense que maintenant tout est, vous savez, beaucoup plus ouvert, mais, euh, je suis sûr qu'ils s'inquiétaient à ce sujet. Ils, ils le savaient. Tu sais, c'est difficile à savoir. L'impression est qu'il y avait beaucoup plus de maîtrise de soi. C'est l'impression que j'ai. Il y avait beaucoup plus de conventions qui vous empêchaient d'être libre. Je veux dire, vous savez, il y avait des ségrégations et de la réputation. Les gens ne se soucient plus de leur réputation. Bien. Pas vrai? Ouais. Les hommes devraient être honorables. Les femmes devraient avoir une réputation. Ce n'est même pas dans le vocabulaire. Mais je pense qu'à l'époque, il y avait encore un peu de, eh bien, vous parlez de la génération de mes parents. C'était des choses sérieuses, ouais. Il y avait beaucoup plus de conventions qui aidaient à prévenir, euh, vous savez, les relations sexuelles avant le mariage. Euh, et donc je, je suppose que c'est aussi une sorte de truc religieux. Eh bien, c'est basé sur la bible et il y avait beaucoup plus d'église le dimanche. Ouais. Au Canada, vous savez, comme, donc ce sont les normes, non? Ouais. Comment, euh, ça ne fera que trois bagues et je n'y toucherai pas. Ouais. ? Euh, probablement un escroc. . Ouais. Ouais. Cela a changé par rapport à il y a 50 ans. Ouais. Toi, tu répondais toujours au téléphone. 10 anneaux est un minimum. Ouais. Tu dois le laisser sonner. Euh, et je suppose qu'en parlant de religion, juste une question de suivi est comme, comment, à quel point diriez-vous que le campus était religieux et, et comment, comment? Comme lié à la religion était votre expérience universitaire. Il était présent. N'oubliez pas que dans les années soixante-dix, ce n'était pas officiellement une université catholique. Je pense que c'était, c'était séparé, mais il y a beaucoup de prêtres enseignants. J'avais un prêtre, euh, père frère, qui, euh, enseignait les finances publiques. Euh, ils étaient, vous savez, ils étaient présents sur le campus, mais c'était très, c'était laïque, euh, ouais, je pense que c'était, j'ai suivi un cours de religion. En première année, c'était très laïque. C'était un Irlandais qui l'enseignait, vous savez, mais je pense qu'il y avait un peu de respect. Je veux dire, tu essaies d'apprendre des choses. C'était, vous savez, il y avait du respect et de la rébellion, vous savez, un mélange, mais je ne pense pas que c'était que ce n'était pas, ce n'était pas anti, vous savez, c'était, je ne sais pas comment le décrire. C'était un lieu d'idées et d'idées négatives sur l'Église et la religion, mais c'était, je dirais, beaucoup plus respectueux. Bonjour. À l'époque qu'aujourd'hui. Les gens ne sont pas respectueux aujourd'hui. Alors c'est, c'est pourquoi, vous savez, c'était, vous savez, si vous n'aimiez pas l'église, vous n'y alliez tout simplement pas. Tu sais, tu n'allais pas lui jeter des pierres ou de la peinture ou... Ouais. Ouais. Ouais. Ouais. D'accord. eh bien ça, c'était intéressant. , J'ai beaucoup appris. , alors merci. et c'est à peu près tout pour l'entrevue. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, https://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bonardelli, Philip (Interview) Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Relation A related resource <iframe width="400" height="250" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eL0cA6AzNaM?si=7sb76MEFty6ZCoNw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe>"Interview With Philip Bonardelli" Life on Campus. October 19th 2023. Video,<br />https://youtu.be/eL0cA6AzNaM?si=UC-mWv2L7k57VFHA Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, 34 Minutes, 10 Seconds