Conversation with David King

Sierra: Well, good afternoon. Thank you for taking the time to meet with us. Do you mind just stating your name for the sake of the interview?

David: David King

Sierra: Okay, perfect. So we're interviewing you for our anthropology class of Caribbean and Latin culture. So we're going to go through a list of questions, and if ever you have any questions that you feel uncomfortable answering, just let us know, and we can skip over to the next one. Is that okay? 

David: Sounds good

Sierra: Perfect. So we're gonna jump into the first question. What is your country of origin?

David: Jamaica

Sierra: And whereabouts in Jamaica

David: Black River. St Elizabeth

Sierra: Perfect. And what brought you to Ottawa? 

David: My parents was here, so they flew me over and didn't have a choice. I was only 10 year old. I left Jamaica when I was 10, so that's the culture, and then everybody else came up 10-15, years later. I met my mother when I was seven. And I said, “Hang on… I've been living with this lady for seven years, and she’s not really my mother?”. 

“No, that's your grandmother”

 “Okay…and that's my mother?”

Yeah, I don't know you. And then had me leave the country with a stranger, which I didn't even know. 

Sierra: Huh 

David: And then they came and I lived with her, and then lived with her husband and my two half brothers and a sister, which I've never met.

Adam: So what year was this? 

David: I came up in 76,  but I thought my grandmother was my mother until I was nine year old and realized, no. Because actually, I never met my mom until I was seven. 

Sierra: Really?

David: Yeah

Sierra: And you had no idea, like, did you find out by yourself? Or did they end up just telling you?

David: No, when she came down, my grandmother told me.

Sierra: Ohhh

David: Yeah. So I was like, I was my grandma the whole time. So I thought it was my mom and my grandfather, and then seven years later, this lady shows up when they go, “that's your mother”. 

And I'm going, “No, it's not”, **Laughs “never heard of her, never seen her before”. Yeah, so it was a whole different culture shock in that. 

Sierra: So how was the dynamic after that?

David: I was happy with my grandmother!

She came once, and then I saw her, and then they didn't see her again for another year and a half. And then she came and picked up Janet and Winston and brought them to Canada. She said, “Oh yeah, I'm gonna come and get you”. 

Sierra: Okay

David: Yeah, well, that was another three and a half years before that happened. 

Adam: And did you wait so long, like, for financial reasons, or was there something else about it? 

David: No idea. Couldn't tell you.

Sierra: Really?

David: Couldn't tell you. 

Sierra: Huh. 

David: So when I came up here, it's like, who's all these people? 

Sierra: Yeah.

David: Because I never knew I had a brother and sister either. 

Sierra: Until he was five.

David: Yeah, and even Janet and Winston. They were in Jamaica. I never knew I had a brother and sister. I met them the day before my mom came to pick them up as she was taking them to Canada. And she said “Oh yea, this is your brother and sister”, then they all disappeared. **laughs

Sierra: Were you guys living close to each other in Jamaica? 

David: They were in St Marie, I was in Black River. Which is about an hour's drive away. Because I lived there. And I thought, all, my cousins – like Uncle Paul and so on

Sierra: Yeah.

David: We all live together. So I thought they were my brother's sister. In Jamaica, the families are all intertwined

Sierra: Yeah.

Adam: So kind of like one big family? 

David: The whole country is almost like one big family

Sierra: Okay, so I guess there's like, a big sense of community

David: You go from one Parish – you guys have provinces but we call them Parish, different sections. So I guarantee you have a cousin or a step brother, a half brother over there, and you probably won't know until after you get married. They don't marry. Just get together. Oh, yeah, well, it's too late.

Sierra: I guess that's kind of risky, though, like, just given how deep the family ties are, I wouldn't want to marry someone who's Jamaican.

David: I mean, that's just the way the culture is.

Sierra: Yeah

David: They just go wild and crazy. 

All: Laugher 

David: Yeah, because they had the slavery back there. And so what happened with slavery in Jamaica, is that whichever slavery owner you’re under, that's the name they give you. So we were under the name Baker – the guy who owns the plantation, his last name is Baker. So all the families that worked for them, they got the name Baker, and then it gets passed on. 

Adam: Oh yeah, because I was gonna ask you about your last name

David: Well here it goes, I found out from mom, before she passed away. So, my father had a different last name. So when she was leaving Jamaica, or when she got married – no, when she had me. She gave me King, because the guy told her that was his last name. Said his last name was King, but it wasn't. 

Sierra: Did he know his last name?

David: Oh yeah, but he got pregnant, and didn't want to take ownership.

Adam: Ohhh 

David: So he gave her the wrong name. He was a pass through guy through the country, he passed from province to province. I thought he was in the army, but Uncle Donald said he was a baker. He delivered baked goods, so he took a garbage truck and went to each parish. So he lied about his last name.

Sierra: Okay, so I guess, like, you don't actually know the name of your father, then?

David: No, don't know a first name and don't know a last name. Nothing.

Sierra: Wow.

David: Yeah. So, when I was getting married the first time, mom said, Well, you should change your last name to Forth, which is her name. But then says, I had to pay for it, so I looked it up. It was going to cost me 350 bucks, and I went “that's not happening” **Laughs

Adam: King's good for you.

David: King is good for me. I'll be the only king in the family. I'm good! ** Laughs

Adam: So have you ever tried to find him? 

David: About seven years ago, I tried to do that to find him. 

Sierra: Really? 

David: Yeah, but I had nothing to go with. 

Adam: Yeah, it's not even King so. 

David: Yeah and mom wouldn't tell me. Uncle Donald knows.

Sierra: He knows your father? 

David: Yup, but he wouldn't tell me information either. 

Sierra: Wow

David: But he knows him, and he wouldn't tell me.  When I was in my 20s, I was asking. 

“Oh, yeah, I know your dad. You know he comes by the yard, we see him often. And this and that” 

Sierra: Really? 

David: Yeah. 

Sierra: And this was here? 

David: No, in Jamaica, yeah. I try for 20 years, and then I go “ all right,  I'm done”.  Never gonna know who this man is. I'm good! It's just wild.

Sierra & Adam: Yeah. 

David: I have no grudge. Im happy my name

Sierra: Yeah, I like your name too.

David: I do too! Joined the military. “King?”, yeah!

Not gonna change it. And I wasn't gonna pay 300 or something dollars to get it changed.

Sierra: Okay, so now that we know a little bit more about your childhood and your name, do you remember wanting to come to Canada when they first brought up the idea? 

David: No idea. I was 10 years old. 

Sierra: So they just like, took you to the airport? 

David: We were looking. My uncle said “Well, you're gonna go to Canada”.

Okay, so we went downtown, to the courthouse to get my passport and stuff signed.

David: So I ride home and said, yeah, it came back. I left the country the next day. 

Adam: Woah. 

Sierra: So like, no warning or anything?

David: No, it's just like, well, you're going to Canada. And it's like, okay, and I had no clothes. I had two shorts. That was it. So I come with nothing. 

Sierra: When did you come? Like, was it like summer or winter? 

David: It was November.

Sierra: Oh, so you really had nothing

Adam: Big change. 

David: It was a big change! I came, and I was like “what's the white stuff?

All: Laughter 

David: Oh yeah. So it was done. We left Jamaica. We came in 76 in November, 76 and then, yeah, mom got me some jeans and stuff. And I went outside, and my foot and my jeans got wet, and then it sat off in the cold breeze. That was my only time wearing jeans,  never wore them since. 

All: Laughter 

David: Not  doing that! 

All: Laughter 

David: And then the summer time came and I was outside with no shoes on. Because I didn't wear shoes back home. The only time I wore shoes was to church. School is barefoot. Everything is barefoot

Sierra & Adam: Yeah.

David: Yeah. And then they forced me to wear shoes. And I'm going “what? No”.

I'm in the backyard, running, playing and there's grass and rocks. And everyone is going "your feet are going to hurt”. Bottoms too tough. Doesn't hurt.

Sierra: Yeah. 

David: Even in the heat I'm there running around. 

Adam: So I guess you just got used to it over time.

David: Yeah, oh yeah. Mom was always to put shoes on. It took me about three years before I got used to that, because I never wore shoes.

Adam: How's the difference in education? Like from coming from there to coming here? 

David: I was in grade five. I start in grade five, but I had to go back one grade because I was trying to keep up with the language.

I speak Jamaican, they couldn't understand a word I was saying, so they moved me back one, which is fine. But then I just take up after that.

Oh yeah. But it was scary because my first teacher I met, she came in.

And she was dressed in a green dress and a green scarf. And back home, we don't wear makeup, right? This lady had this big green thing above her eyes

Adam: Ohhh

David: And she came to give me a hug and I went “whoa”

All: Laughter 

David: I still remember, it scared the hell out of me because I've never seen a person with makeup on. But yeah.

Sierra: So were the classrooms? Like, smaller?

David:

It was a smaller classroom. I think there were 15 to 20 kids in the class. 

Adam: And in Jamaica, how many were there?

David: Well, it's based on school, because Jamaica, you have one big school, but you have split class because there's not many. So in my class, there was grade four and grade five together.

Sierra: Oh okay

David: Yeah, so it was different. It was a different culture shock. But, you know, I got used to it. 

Adam: Got used to it.

David: Made a few friends, had fun, learned the system, then became crazy.

All: Laughter 

Adam: So did you go to your school with your cousins then? 

David: Umm no, I went to school with my brother and sister. We went to Vincent Massey

Sierra: Okay

David: Which was literally about, you know, 9 to 10 blocks from the house. There was a school bus that takes you there. But, when I got older, I said “ enough of that school bus”. They said I can't walk to school. But I said “what do you mean?” I walked to school anyways

Sierra: Yeah. I mean, I guess you were used to it because you've walked to school your whole life. 

David: I walked to school, but, yeah, I had to go across the stop line and so on. So I didn't bother, I just walked to school.  Sometimes when I was walking to school, and my gym teacher saw me, she’d pick me up and just keep on driving down.

Sierra: Really?

David: But you're supposed to take the school bus because you're under 13

Sierra: Like for safety

David: It didn't mean anything to me. I break your rules when I can.

All: Laughter

David: Still do!

All: Laughter 

David: Oh no. It was good. I got used to the culture, so it was nice. People were nice. And got into track and field. I like to run.

Sierra: I guess that's also like keeping up with like, culture, too. 

David: Yeah. Oh yeah. Back then, I could do a mile in five minutes. That's my average.

Sierra: Oh wow, and that carried out like throughout high school?

David: Yup. I did a 3000 meter, I came in second every year.

This one guy would always  beat me. He was taller than I am, but he'd done the marathon, but yeah, so came in second for that, and they wanted me to join the Athletic Club. There's one big Athletic Club thing there. They want me to join it, but initially, got to run all summer. And I go “no” 

Adam: During the summer? No 

All: Laughter

David: It's training, right? So in the summertime is your training, so you're like, 24/7 training, running. And I'm going, “No”. So I joined the Navy and travel and then come back home and put myself to university. I love to run, but I wasn't gonna sit around every summer.

Adam: Uh huh

Sierra: Yeah. 

David: Yeah, back then it wasn't a big thing to me to be an athlete, to run and get paid and get money, no.

Adam: What do you do for work now?

David: I'm an IT guy. I work for the department of national defense.

Adam: Now that you've moved to Ottawa, do you have much family here? And how often do you see them? 

David: Yeah, we got a really big family here. I see them every day, really. My grandmother has 15 kids, so the family is here.

Adam: Wow.

David: Laughs*

And each kid has four kids after that. So yeah, the whole family is here, just in Ottawa alone. We're probably right now over 60 or 70. 

Adam: Oh, wow. 

David: You had a great Uncle named Alfie, he had 101 grandkids. 

Sierra: 101?

David: 101. The family tree is crazy. I can't keep track of it.

Sierra: But I guess that was just kind of like the norm.

David: That was the norm back then.

Sierra: In Jamaica, everyone had big families

David: Everyone had big families. And back home, it was the grandparents that raised the kids. Like my mom had me, and she left, Aunt Ther had the four kids and they left. Mama was raising them all, plus her 15 kids that she had. So she had 15 kids, and she raised them, and they grow up and have kids. When she was pregnant, all her girls were pregnant with her. 

Sierra: Huh, a lot has changed since then. Like, at least in Canadian culture, it's not as normalized 

David: No, when you go to Jamaica, it's the same thing. In Jamaica when you have kids, they have the kids and the  grandparents raise the kids, and they go do their thing.

Sierra: Interesting.

David: That's what the culture was. It probably still is.

Sierra: Yeah.

Adam: Do you have people that you still keep in contact with? 

David: I left when I was 10. I had a few friends there, but I haven't been back. I mean, I've only been back to Jamaica twice since I've left

Sierra: Yeah

David: In 76. But there was no need to go back.

Sierra: Because everyone is here 

David: The families are out here.. 

Adam: So now to get deeper into that community aspect, do you have individual celebrations that are more specific to the culture that you find the most important to you? 

David: Well, the celebration we do most is Christmas as a family. We do a whole bunch of Christmas parties, get together, and then we do birthdays. There is also Jamaican independence day. Sometimes we go and celebrate that, if we have time to do that. But most of it is family related, as in Christmas and birthdays.

Sierra: Okay. And then back home in Jamaica, I know you were only 10, but can you describe a typical day in your community?

David: Yeah, a typical day would be like the kids would get up in the morning and go to school. I usually – our school there was no transportation. So, I would walk, you know, four or five miles to school, same thing, back for lunch, and then back again after and then we have a culture thing. Where I live, there was a big community center, and we play sports. There was cricket or we played soccer. So it was like a family run area. 

Adam: So besides, like the whole community aspect, what about just your, you know, your personal family, what was the dynamic like there? 

David: My grandfather slept, there was no room for him, so they took a door, put it on to a chair and that was his bed.

Sierra: Really?

David: Yeah, there was two beds in the house

Sierra: And 15 of you?

David: 15 kids, and you sleep head to foot. So whoever get to the bed First, grab the corner

All: Laughter

David: And if you're the edge, you get knocked off. **Laughs** Oh yeah, there were just two beds, and all the kids, they would sleep head to foot. My grandmother slept on the sofa.

Sierra: Uh huh

David: But I never see her sleep because she'll be up. We go to bed, wake up and she's still up.

Sierra: Yeah.

David: Oh yeah. It was great, because we thought we just live together, brothers and sisters. We had no idea

Sierra: Wow, it sounds really different than, you know, life here in Canadian culture. 

David: Yeah, it's a different lifestyle, yeah. But I said, you live after land. I mean, I know when I was younger, my grandma didn't have a lot of money and food. So now you get I get, you get a squarel meal. Like Sunday, you will get rice and peas and chicken, on Sunday. So that was your dinner. Every Sunday you would get that.  The rest of the week. You know, you may get soup. To go to school in the morning, you get a slice of bread with some butter and some green tea and you're off to school. You come back home for lunch, because then you get the same thing, bread with the butter. You go back to lunch. And you usually walk about, you know,  two to three kilometers to go to school and back. There's no transportation. 

Sierra: So was your grandmother, like, working during the day, when you guys were at school?

David: Mama didn't work much, but she uhhh, on the weekend, she would make balmy, which is like a bread on the stove, and she would sell those, and she had clients. So every Sunday, she makes those, and I would bring them to a client and sell and get money on the side. But while she was doing that,  there was my mom and my aunt. Since they're overseas, they would send her money, because she's raising the kids.

Sierra: Ohh okay. So there were still, like, that transaction 

David: They were still supporting her. A transaction going there. So she got all the kids, right. So they'll send her money to keep it going, because they're all having fun, and she's got, like, her kids, plus the grandkids she's raising. 

Sierra: Yeah

David: Yeah. And then, on the weekends my grandmother would go shopping every Saturday, but she have to walk five miles to town and five mile back. We had no vehicle. Then she put the basket on her head and no hand, and she just walked with all that stuff. But you had your duty on Saturdays. You have to clean the house. You got to clean the yard. You had to get ready before she came back. 

So my job was to go get firewood. So we have a little wagon that Uncle John built for me, I would walk, get firewood. And if i cant, id bring it on my head. And the yard had to be swept. 

You just know that. Mama says, do this. You just do it.

Sierra: Yeah

All: Laughter 

David: You don't want to fight with her on whether you're gonna do it or not. No, she doesn't beat you. 

Sierra: Yeah? 

David: She called Uncle Roy to beat you. That's a different story. Uncle Roy  is coming. Everybody runs. 

All: Laughter 

Adam: And then how do you currently celebrate your heritage?

David: Well, as I said, they do Independence Day, which the family get together, and we cook different foods and flavors, and then we play dominoes and songs, and then we just have entertainment there.

Sierra: That sounds nice

Adam: Just to add on to that, are there individual values that you think hold you most dear as a member of this community, or other members of this community also would hold the most dear? 

David: Yeah, you just try to keep your Jamaican culture in the family and pass it into generations. So you teach your kids how to play dominoes, how to do Jamaican food, how to cook, and then celebrate that way, and then listen to reggae music.

Adam: Perfect. And to add on to that, which foods particularly remind you the most of home and where would you go to purchase these groceries to prepare your traditional meals? 

David: The big thing is we do Oxdale, so there's a Jamaican store in New Orleans called

Mantego, It's on St Joseph. We go there and get some oxtails and a lot of Jamaican food. So there's oxtail, there's um, we do rice and peas. And then there is the national dish, which is called Aki and saltfish, and you can get them there as well, too, at the grocery stores. Walmart also sells aki, they come in a can. So, different places sell them. Same thing with Basics.

Adam: Perfect. What would you particularly like to share about yourself or your community that you think would be most important for other people to know? 

David: Other people should know you should try to keep your culture of your country going and pass it on to your family members and kids. Because a lot of them have never been to Jamaica. I mean, I've been here for over 50 some years, and i’ve only been back like twice since I've been here and traveled. So it'd be good to pass on heritage, pass on the culture, teach them how to cook and the music and just read up on it. I'd like to go back to Jamaica, but I have to plan that. But yeah, it's been a long time. It's changed. Jamaica has changed a lot, and since the last hurricane that's really wiped out Black River were we lived

Sierra: Really?

David: Oh yeah. Downtown. Black River was the city part, and you have hotels and bakery and so on right along the ocean. Well, they all just wash right up to the sea. They're all gone. So they gotta rebuild the whole place

Sierra: Do you think –  are they able to rebuild it like? How was it like? So the neighborhood that you lived in, was it like, financially, like, was it stable or like, was it more like? 

David: Well, it's in the country where we had homes like, we had brick homes. We had a decent sized home there. So that wasn't hit much as much was just a downtown core that was hit as much

Sierra: Okay. So, as we've spoken about before, we are doing this to upload information to a website, just to kind of get a better idea of, you know, culture and where people are from. How likely would you say you are to use any of these websites just to get more knowledge on different cultures?

David: I do once in a while, like, I mean, I browse a different culture, like Spain. I like the Spanish culture or the British culture, because half of our family is also in Britain. That's where they migrate to. 

Sierra: And then do you have any other comments or concerns?

David: No, it's nice that you guys are doing this, this way other people could see the different cultures and what goes on. Like Jamaica, as I said, its an Island in the Caribbean is very nice place to go and visit, and we have different cultures in different parts of the island that are celebrated. So all there the Caribbean islands, they have their own different cultures. It's a competition between Jamaica and Cuba. Sorry, Jamaica, Cuba and also um Barbados and Trinidad. But no, Jamaica always wins. 

All: Laughter 

David: Yeah, when they go to the family line, I try go to them, it's like, okay, this is getting confusing. Oh, just got confusing and messed up. But you know, everything starts somewhere, right? So now you're well educated. 

Sierra / Adam:

Now I know. 

David: Yeah, the Jamaican culture is nice. Yeah, music is nice, food is nice. People are nice and friendly, just don't get in the bad side, because they hold grudges.

Sierra: Yeah?

David: Oh yeah, and never call a Jamaican a Barbadian or Trinidad. They hate that.

Sierra: Really?

David: Oh god, yeah 

Sierra: I never understood that, because it's still like part of the same, like, Caribbean.

David: Nooo 

Sierra: No?

David: No, don't tell them that. No, Jamaica, no. Don't tell them they're a  part of Barbados. No, they’ll shoot you, man

All: Laughter 

David: It's been a war from them. And also Cuba. Cuba is, yeah, Cuba was way back when I used to be there, when Fidel Castro used to run Cuba, because his son actually came to Jamaica to go school. I went to school with his son. Yeah, don't know why, but anyways, we always see a big black limousine pull up to school. Little kid comes out of it, and we go “ yeah, that's Castro's son”... Ok!

All: Laughter 

David: Different society, yeah, no. Jamaican Barbados and Trinidad is always an ongoing thing to see who's the best. It's all about reggae music.

Sierra: Mhmm, but we have all the best ones.

David: Exactly. That's how the rivalry goes on.

All: Laughter 

Adam: Well, that's all thanks so much for taking the time. This has been very informative, and we appreciate you taking the time to do this.

David: 

This has been fun. This was cool!

Sierra / Adam:

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I had fun too.

David: 

Yeah, get me to the next one. I'll be there!