Conversation with Ángel

Interviewer (00:00 – 00:02): So, what is your country of origin?  

Ángel (00:02 – 00:04): I'm from Mexico, from Mexico City. 

Interviewer (00:04-00:06): And what brought you to Canada?  

Ángel (00:06 – 02:00): I was like 14 or 15, one of my cousins, he's an opera singer, he got a scholarship to go study singing in Germany. And for some reason, I remember back then, it was way harder to communicate, ah like 20 years ago. So, we could only talk to him once a week over video call. And it seemed like it was a very hard struggle for him being away from his family and all that. He didn't speak a word of German. So, he had to learn German there. And for some reason that seemed very compelling to me. I thought like, I wanna put myself to that same standard and prove myself that I can do it. That I can just move to a different country and be successful just like he is. So, on one side I was following him. Um, I studied sciences. So, I  in Mexico, we don't really have majors in minors, but my major would be biology. And then I did a Masters in experimental biology and then a lot of people offered me PhDs then, in Mexico. But I honestly know that or knew back then that doing a PhD is really hard. And I thought, I'm only gonna do this if it's in a different country. I'm not going to put myself through all of that stress if I'm staying here. So that's the second reason, and the third reason is specifically Canada because up to this point is just wherever in the world, right? I just want to go somewhere else. Um, but coming to Canada was because back then I was dating like a girl, and she was also one of the reasons why I wanted to do all of these things. Cause for me, she's always been excellent at everything, and she's reached every one of her goals and one of her goals was to study abroad as well. She got accepted in McGill for her PhD in 2017 and, um, it happened. I just thought, yeah, I want to do this thing and I want to be closer to her. And so, I only applied to McGill, and here and I got accepted here. And so that's why I ended up staying in Ottawa. 

Interviewer(02:00 – 02:05):Do you have family here and do you see them frequently?  

Ángel (02:05 – 02:24): I have no one here. I moved here by myself. Um, I see my family at least once a year, um, usually when I go back for winter holidays, but every now and then I go back for the summer and sometimes there are some other important events or like tragic circumstances and I will go back for a weekend or something like that. 

Interviewer (02:24 - 02:26): Has your family visited you here?  

Ángel(02:26–03:12):No. Um, the something maybe you're going to ask me about later, but like one of the cultural differences, the most striking ones for me was how easy for people is to travel here. So just see it like, yeah like 21, 22, just like, yeah, it's gone go to Europe for like three months. And I'm like, I never in my life, if I wanted to do that, I would have to belong to a very high class in Mexico or yeah, it’s just like something I never learned to do because money is such a constraint. And so, for my parents, they are not struggling, but they would want to come here with my siblings and just like familiar for coming here for like or three weeks. It’s an expense, so it's a bit prohibited, but they are planning on coming here for my dissertation so hopefully, yeah. 

Interviewer (03:12 – 03:18) So, um, do you live in a Latin community here. Do you have like a, like a place you can practice here? 

Ángel(03:18 –05:01): Bit of a sore spot cause ever since I moved here, um, I'm just going to revert back to following people that I love. Um, my ex-girlfriend, she had a very strong community with her, and some of those people were Latin American. And so ever, like the moment I stepped, like a foot in here, I thought I wanted for myself and I'm gonna have a bunch of maybe not Mexican friends but Latin American friends. But for some reason, it's been really hard for me. Um, I feel like I'm also older than most of the people that I hang out with. So sometimes I feel like that age difference made it a bit complicated. Also, a lot of the people that I ended up meeting here from Mexico were here and had circumstances different to mine. So, I was here in a somewhat privileged position where I have a permit, I have enough money to just do certain things, and my education level is different and sometimes those things will also become a barrier. Um the last thing is some of the people that I met here that have Latin American backgrounds because they also have this Canadian background, the energy matching is not fully there. So, I actually found a really nice community in dance. Um. I think that, again, it's just because it was here at the university’s Salsa Club, but again, because of the age difference, I feel like, uh, those connections weren't as strong. Um. Right now I only have the one friend that is Jillian and that I think that I have a very strong connection with, but he is just not available pretty much. And like so I feel like I still need to find that a way to find, yeah, my community here.  

Interviewer(05:01 – 05:02): So, you found it hard? 

Ángel (05:02 – 05:03): Yes. 

Interviewer(05:03 – 05:10): But you did talk about like the salsa club at the university, tell us about that experience.  

Ángel (05:10 – 07:34): So what like, just cause moving here was hard, not only becausse with my family, and culture shock, um I was pretty good at English I had to in order to study a Phd, but I still had some language barriers every now and then expression, or realise I didn't conjugate properly. Um. I moved here at the beginning of 2020, so right before the pandemic. And so, I would have been studying here for three months and then the pandemic hit, and you couldn't go see anyone or hang out with anyone. Um, I couldn’t go see my girlfriend at the time because at some point they even closed the borders between Quebec and Ontario. Um, so that was really hard, and I was very depressed, and then when I found the club, it was very stressful at first because I, being from Mexico, means that I have some rhythm and I can kind of dance but the way people dance here was a completely different level, something that I've never done, that I've never learned. And it was really hard for me. So, I was feeling also very, maybe it sounds silly but vulnerable because I was surrounded with these people that were way better dancers than I was. And I felt like that was one of my things like that I, how come I am so sucky at this thing that I should be better at? Um, and then as I got better, I, again, like I found people that I really looked up to. Uh, the leader of the club at that moment. She’s a fantastic person and I just think she's just like an innate leader and whatever she, like her personality was influencing me in a positive way, in such a strong way that I just wanted to be like her. I just wanted to be the person that lightened up the room and that made everyone feel welcome and safe, and I don't know. And I found a really nice community in there. But there were some issues, that again Its just because that I think that most of the people that were part of the club were way younger and [they] just approach issues in a different way that I would, and in the end I just ended up having issues with people that I thought were close friend of mine, and I just never heard back from them after that and I we just came apart in kind of an ugly way. And even though I'm part of a different club and what not it's kind of stupid because now these people are all there but the energy is different I don't feel the need to connect or anything it's like pretty much everyone is for themselves and whatever I'm here for dancing bey see you next week. It a lite bit hard to adapt but whatever. But in my experience, yeah. 

Interviewer (07:34 – 07:41): When talking about your heritage and things like that, what kind of celebrations are really important to that bring you back to Mexico. 

Ángel (07:41 – 10:16) : Particularly independence day which is also something I tell people here, um I guess this is kind of funny Cinco de mayo is not a big deal in Mexico it is a holiday and we don't go to work or school whatever on Cinco de mayo  but it's not the Mexican celebrations and in the states and here were everyone losses it about Cinco de mayo and at first I thought it was so stupid and silly but I've been living here for a while now and now that just one day that people go celebrate Mexican heritage and even though I know it's the stupidest thing that I go celebrate Cinco de mayo I go and celebrate Cinco de mayo  cause that when people want to listen Mexican music and drink tequila and go for tacos and **** like that so like, it's a bit silly to me  but I enjoy it. But aside from that the most important date in Mexico is September 15, which is Independence Day. And it’s really nice here, in Ottawa, the embassy organizes the ceremony. In Mexico we have a ceremony where the president comes out to the biggest square in the city and they recreate the call for arms from a famous priest that pretty much told everyone that we don't wanna live under the Spaniards realm so take off your arms and lets fight for our independence. So, every September 15, the president in term comes our to the balcony and yells out some things, and it’s kind of like long live all of the heroes that gave us our country, and they do that here in Ottawa, and they have music and people dancing and food, so I do that here. I think that the last one that is also important is Dia de loss Muertos.  I think that the last one that is also very important is the Dia de Muertos, which, um, people also thought here. Um, and I thought everyone, or most people understand or not understand. Most people can identify the symbolism of the other Dia de Loss Muertos. But for me, it's particularly important. I grew up in a Catholic, um, household and I'm not religious, but in Mexico, the Dia de loss Muertos are kind of like a pre-Hispanic or indigenous culture and Catholic European culture. And so, it's pretty much a date. I deliberate the people that are gone. And the original idea is that you just set up an offering with food and drinks and whatever, and overnight the souls of the people you love to come visit you and share a meal with you or whatever. Um, and it's weird cause I'm not Catholic. I’m also very, uh, aseptic about life after death. But I will set down one of these offerings with food and what not, and I will set a picture and whatever. And it's kind of ridiculous, but part of me does things like, okay, yeah, like, here's your food, here's your drinks. It’s, it's on, um, so I with those, those three, yeah. 

Interviewer (10:16 – 10:23): And what’s interesting about those is, is even they don't necessarily believe in it. It's just the fact that they unite and they just bring you back to, to home.  

Ángel (10:23 - 11:32): Yeah, definitely first night when I moved here, I didn't really hear Spanish at first, and it was very sad cause then my ex-girlfriend lives in Montreal, so I would go visit her every two weeks or so, and then everyone would speak. I would hear Spanish all the time and only Spanish, but I will be Mexico City Spanish frequently. And, and when I back here for the rest of the week or whatever, I just knew I would never hear it. And it was a bit sad for me. Um, and so now what I love is like a ragaton so popular now, even though it's not Mexican music in itself, but all of this Latin America culture that people are starting to embrace overall. And it's been, it's been, it's making with things that like I, for example, like ragaton and now I love it and I listen to it all the time. Uh, there are some Mexican music that I thought were so annoying and absurd, but now I just listen to them because I, sometimes I go back home and I go out with my cousins or my friends and whatever and they play music and I have no idea what's in the background. And it makes me feel a bit alienated as well now from my own country that I go back and I'm like, yeah, what's going on? I'm just listening to things that I never listen to in music and it's kind of funny.  

Interviewer (11:32 – 11:38): Speaking of heritage celebrations, how do you celebrate your heritage here? 

Ángel (11:38 - 14:48): I so um I feel I'm very unapologetic of being hum, Mexican and I feel fortunate enough to be living specifically in this country where I, I'm not afraid of people knowing that I'm from a different country, but also in this age because I've heard from some people, um, my girlfriend's parents heard that they didn't want to teach her French or Italian or whatever, which were the original languages because for them, it was just so important for her, for her to perform in English first and foremost, just because of the experiences they had when they were growing up. Um, so I, I don't, uh, one of the things that happened to me is I had to present that I conference and the conference, my presentation was recorded and for the longest time I thought that I didn't have an accent. I, I, I just, and then out of curiosity, I played back the presentation, and I listened to the first words that I said and I was like, oh my god, my accent is very thick. But I, instead of feeling ashamed or bad about it or trying to correct, I was like, no, you know what? Like cool that way, people that I'm not from here. And I'm always happy to talk about my country. I'm always happy to talk about the beautiful places, not only the beaches and the amazing food and the, um, super moving music are, um, yeah, yeah, it just makes me very proud to be Mexican. And one of the things that I did after I moved here is I got a tattoo from a Mexican, not even a Catholic, but like an indigenous Mexican. And so, I did it so that I would be always reminded of where I'm coming from. Um, but yeah, I like the way I speak, the way I dress, and the things that I just like to do. I, I just love about Mexico and people knowing that I'm from Mexico. Yeah, thank you. Well, now I unfortunately have to work a lot because I have to finish my pH. So that's one thing and then it's taking me so long that now a lot of the scholarships that I originally had have ended. And so, the cost of studying in itself has increased a lot. So, I also need to work part time in order to be able to cover those costs. But whenever I hang out with people because as I said, I don't really have a strong Latin community to go to here. So, my community is just made up of friends that are, yeah, like first of all but also have different backgrounds. And so sometimes we, um, I don't know, I have a friend that is from that has Salvadorian heritage. So sometimes we go and get, um, food from El Salvador. My friend is chilian and then like I, I just whenever we, I just Learned his language, like he's worth speaking Spanish in general. It’s just usually at together for dancing, so that is a big thing and getting something for food before, but I don't really have a specific community or Latin community to go to with whom I can share a lot more things or speaking Spanish completely for the whole day or something like that. So, it’s a very mixed culture approach. And I think that what brings us together is and or like connecting to Latin American heritage is whenever we get anything, yeah. 

Interviewer (14:48 – 14:50): What are some values that you really attached to home?  

Ángel (14:50 – 14:52): Values that I associate with home. 

Interviewer (14:52 – 14:54): Yeah. 

Ángel (14:54 – 17:20): Um, I feel like the important that we have as Mexicans that we're just super welcoming and we are, we're just happy things with everyone. We’re just, uh, I remember even before moving we're here, I would have some, uh, foreign friends studying at the university and then they would be just upald, I just met you and I'm like, hey, do you wanna like get dinner with? My mom's gonna make some food and like you just eat. And they would be like, I, I just met you literally. We've been talking for two hours. How do you know that I'm not a weirdo or something like you look cool. If, whenever you want, let's, yeah, let's just like to my, um, so that's one thing sometimes here, I feel it is lacking a bit and it would be nice for people to just be more open and, and welcoming. I feel I'm very open.I feel like I, I just, um, I'm bit of a book sometimes to my detriment. And so if you ask anything about me, most likely I will just tell you with like a background story and we'll just give away information for free. And I feel like a lot of people in Mexico also kind of like that. Um, and I feel like Mexico, we do have a strong sense of community, but, but I see it kind of like in your people that you hang out with and what not and just trying to be nice um to the people around you. And Mexico, it's just like this very strong. We're Mexican, this is what define us. This is, uh, yeah, if I find a person in any other country, you're just happy to know that, oh, you're from Mexico. Damn, like, okay, where are you? Like when you get here, you start building up in a friendship that is just out of the fact that you're just Mexican. Um, and, and, yeah, it's becoming a bit of a more relaxed way of seeing things and living life, trying to not take everything as seriously, um, particularly here, sometimes I just see that they're so stressed all the time, and they're just constantly working and not sleeping at all. And I remember when I was in university, it was hard, and there were days in or some weeks in which I wouldn't, wouldn't sleep, but never I can, that same level of, oh my God, like, if I don't do, my life is gonna crumble into pieces and whatever. I would go out and party, and I would, I would have bien time with my friend, not worry so much about the things that wouldn't go well. And I'm not sure that's a positive or negative because maybe Mexican people could benefit with more serious and stuff. Um, but probably those just, yeah, rather we are ourselves how welcoming we are to everyone outside of our communities and, yeah, how United and, and we are.  

Interviewer (17:20 – 17:22): That’s really beautiful. 

Ángel(17:22 – 17:24): Thank you.  

Interviewer (17:24 – 17:29): Is there anything you would like share about yourself or your community that you think is important for us to know, apart from what you have already said.  

Ángel (17:29 – 20:15): Um, here, not really again, I feel very safe in Canada. I feel, I feel like you understand a lot the importance of multiculturality. Um, yeah, like I know people in different countries from here and that is something that you don't really have in Mexico. It’s very, it's very homogeneous things that I've started to notice a bit, um, and this is not related to my community here, but it's, uh, there are an end of tourism whenever I go back. Mexico, some, some things now are starting to make me feel like my country is not my country anymore, um, in a sense that would be walking through some neighborhoods, and they are becoming more North American, and some rules are starting to apply differently there. I was there just in December, and some restaurants have their menus fully in English on display for everyone. And I don't like that. And I've heard from different people that sometimes tourists' kind of like act as places and then they are not used to whatever, um, habits or, or traditions are in. They just try to force the people from those places into accommodating for them or they're like, I never realized until I moved here that Porto Ajeta, I got is such a haven for people that just buy Condos and whatever and then just live there. And there are places near porto Ajeta that I visited and, and the people around the North Americanized communities are so poor... and it's just crazy to see a big ass rise with a ton of condos filled with white people and then you walk for five minutes more and then it's just a village of fisherman that it's just poor, dirt poor. Um. And so that is what I feel it would be very important for people to understand or for people to be more aware of whenever they're visiting Mexico or whenever they're buying property in Mexico, to know that Mexico is not your place to go get rich. Mexico is not your place to go exploit whatever advantages you have there that you don't have here. Because it, it's pretty much, um, it's kind of like modern colonization. It's just you bringing your resources and your power and just forcing people out of where they live and out of, out of their barely scraping by opportunities. And I want to like a condo in the floor where I can just get up and look at the sunrise and buy super cheap food because these people are barely able to pay for it. Um, so that is not entirely to hear, but every time I go back to Mexico and visit, it's more and more apparent how many foreigners there are there and, and how alienating sometimes feels for me. And I'm, I, I can, I speak I speak French and like, I I can, I felt some places in my, kind of, my country, so I cannot imagine how it is for, for Mexicans that do not have the same opportunities that I do. Yeah. 

Interviewer (20:15 - 20:26): Okay, um, here we are about what food, talking about more foods um, kind of review actually, like prepare those here. Do you find a place that it doesn't feel that you need?  

Ángel (20:26 – 22:03): Um, making food is hard, and I suck at cooking, so I try, I don't suck at cooking. I'm, I think that I'm a decent cook. I, it, I'm just not good at, and in terms of time, it takes me forever. So, something that my mom could make in 30 minutes, it will take me two hours. Uh, so I don't like cooking and because of that, it's harder. But I found some stores that have all the supplies that I would need if I wanted to make stuff funny enough. My girlfriend who is Canadian and her dad is Italian, and her mom is Dutch, she has made more Mexican dishes for me than the Mexican, like the complicated Mexican dishes I've done for myself. Um, but I do have certain things like Mole which is kind of just like a powder you cook someone fast and that I can make a bit more easily. Easiest food to find. Here are tacos and enchiladas. There are some places that have really nice tacos, so some of those very particular, there's a burrito, it's called Maria's Tacos, and they sell this thing called, uh, Longanesa which is kind of like a sausage but you're very Mexican style spices that you can only find in Mexico and here it's just hard to find. Longanesa is just not easy to get at any restaurant and that is a tiny place. It's a hole in the wall and that lady makes the best longanesa. So that is, that is one that I get a bite, and, yeah, like, it brings me, and yeah, like, it's hard to find more complex dishes. And sometimes I'm just scared to try them, cause I, I feel like if all ruined, I'm not gonna enjoy them. And I'm just gonna be complaining about them. So, yeah. 

Interviewer (22:03 – 22:12): Okay, for the last question we have here, how likely would you or your family be to use the website we are creating for uploading your stories? And how would you use it if you were to use it?  

Ángel (22:12 – 23:25): Um, my family is a bit hard, because I think that only my sister speaks a decent enough level of English to be able to use it. My dad speaks no English, and my mom barely, maybe my brother, but, yeah, it's just I don't think would use it. However, whilst trying to learn French, I've been trying to listen to. There’s this very silly Duolingo podcast that just shares stories from people, obviously from francophones, and those are really interesting to hear. It's cool to know, particularly from, from immigrants and for you to be aware of how you, as an immigrant living in a different country can make a difference, and how, like, the positive impact of things that you're doing have in, in the much larger. Only you're, like, Latin American friends’ words. So, in that regard, I, I would like to hear about other people's experiences of moving here, and, like, their own struggle. Sometimes I feel like it's so important to connect, like, also in the hardships and to know that yeah, this actually was kind of, like, hard for most really complicated for me to get over it. And, um, in spite of whatever to me, I still made it through. So that would be, that would, if it was everyone else. 

Interviewer (23:25 – 23:35): That creates just consciousness, like, how people around you do not sharing their stories openly. Everybody’s going through something and coming to a different country, having your past. I think it's, it can be really hard. 

Ángel (23:35 – 23:36): Yeah. 

Interviewer (23:36 – 23:343): But you've expressed it really well, and we wanna thank you for joining us today, you are a very great speaker, and, yeah, thank you so much.  

Ángel (23:43 – 23:46): Thank you