Conversation with Vera Cotter

Latifa Saad (0:02): Hello, hello. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (0:02): Hi.

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (0:02): Hi.

Latifa Saad (0:03): Ah, there's the lovely ladies. OK.  

Sydney Langlois (0:05): Hi.  

Latifa Saad (0:06): This is Vera.  

Sydney Langlois (0:07): Hello. 

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (0:07): Hello. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (0:08): Hello.

Sydney Langlois (0:09): Thank you so much for taking the time to help us out today.

Vera Cotter (0:13): Oh, wait and thank me after it's over. I might run away. 

Latifa Saad (0:20): Perfect. Cool. So let's start. So the first question, which is kind of funny to me, is what is your country of origin? 

Vera Cotter (0:34): Trinidad. Kind of thinking India, right? 

Latifa Saad (0:38): Oh, no, no, we're thinking Trinidad. It's Trinidad.  

Vera Cotter (0:41): Trinidad and Tobago, actually. But I was born in Trinidad, so it's, 2 little islands, one government, but I was born on the Trinidad side.  

Latifa Saad (0:51): OK, where in Trinidad were you born?  

Vera Cotter (0:54):

I was born in Port of Spain, which is the capital. And we lived there until I was 5 and then moved to Princes Town. And that's where I lived the rest of my time at home. So, my family always sent us, sent us away to school, and usually it was the English side. You know, we all the education system in in Trinidad when I grew up there was the English system. So, we went through University of Cambridge. So, when you finish high school, time for university, we have a really good university on the island, but it's just one university, so you can only have so many students, right? And my parents, so family, the habit was you always continued with 

University at Cambridge, so, you go the English way. When our turn came, so my mom's siblings would have gone the other way to the east. When our siblings started to go to university, we came to the West.  

Latifa Saad (2:08): Hmm.  

Vera Cotter (2:09):

So that's how I ended that—first, actually, I went to the States, started there and did one and a half years and then moved to um, to Canada because, our culture you have to live with family, like you can't just go as a student to a strange land. And by yourself, like that just wasn't allowed. So, my aunt had just graduated and she's a pharmacist and she wanted to get her license for the States and for Canada. So, while she was doing her work in the States, that's where I went to live and start school when she moved to Ontario, a year and a half later, so you can have her license from Ontario, I have to pick up and move with her, and then I became a rebel, and I dropped out of school. Sorry.  

Latifa Saad (3:15): No, that's good.  

Vera Cotter (3:17): Culture. It's culture like.  

Latifa Saad (3:20): I was gonna ask the second question, which was what brought you to Ottawa.

Vera Cotter (3:24):

So Ottawa, OK, so Toronto, the only pharmacy school there was at University of Toronto, being stuck with relatives and I had a few more relatives in Toronto. 

And I just found living with, they became my parents and it was like too much, too many parents. And we were allowed back then to work like 20 hours a week as a student in Canada. So, I hung out with a crowd that my family did not approve of, it was like, not good. So, there was a lot of pressure. There's school and there's the friends I hang out with, and I ended up moving back home for two years and then realized that's when I just dropped out of school and like I would just rebelled. So, I moved back home for two years and then realized, no, I don't like it back there. I would rather live here. So, I came back to Toronto. And very young because I met my husband, uh, we were 19. So I'd be 21 when we come came back and then we got married at 22. He lived in Belleville, Ontario—not a good crowd. So, he moved back home and went back to school, did a two-year program because he never finished high school. So, when we got married, we ended up moving to his hometown of Belleville. So, I got a job in the bank because back then there were always layoffs, you know, Bell’s laying off, these companies laying off. Belleville, 40,000 people, not very many places to work and have a secure job that paid money. So, I ended up working for the bank. So that's how I ended up in banking and just kind of stayed there. 

Vera Cotter (5:33):

All the jobs were in the Silicon Valley, like you had to move out West or you come to Ottawa. Nortel Networks, you guys may be too young to know about that company. Very good Canadian company. Nortel was the only place that he can get a job, right? Engineering in, electronics engineering. So, my daughter, we have one child and she finally moved to Ottawa, Ottawa ‘U’. Is that where you guys are? And, well, when she finished school and did her job and settled down, got married, she decided to stay in Ottawa. So, my dream was always culture. It's culture. You stay close to your kids. That was my dream, to move closer to my daughter. I was doing a lot of driving, you know, I'd come to Ottawa, cook for the kids, you know, the students. We'd all get together and I was able to see her a lot. Long story short, how I ended up in Ottawa? So, when my daughter had her first baby, I moved, away, on my own. I'm in Ottawa and I've made a new life over the past 12 years, so it all worked out. I was very lucky. We started working really young in our generation, so I was lucky enough to retire, they called it “Age Plus Service” and you can retire like, I retired at 56, when the first grandchild came, so I could look after my grandchildren and just now you can see why I just picked up and moved. Because you know what? The baby's here. Now I'm going like that was my dream. So that's how I ended up in Ottawa.

Latifa Saad (7:25): Oh my God, that is a great story. You also kind of answered some of the questions like as you're going...

Vera Cotter (7:31): Ah, really? 

Latifa Saad (7:32): Yeah, yeah as you were going, which is good. So, the next question that I was gonna ask, my final question, because these ladies are gonna ask you some questions too, is do you have family here, and uh, do you see them frequently?  

Vera Cotter (7:43): 

So, I do have family here. You girls would see this later on in life, as you get your own family, like you kind of don't see each other as much because you now have your, your own. So, my siblings, right, have their kids and they're very busy with their kids. 

Even my daughter now, my grandchildren are 14 and 16. They're busy with their own lives. So yes, I do have family. Do I see them very often? Probably three? Four? times a year because uh, they're in, again, I have a sister in Kingston, um, Ontario. I have my brother in Toronto. But again, they're busy with their families. So, we will get together, but it's only like three or four times. Or my youngest brother moved back home to Trinidad to look after my parents. That's culture. You kind of like, have to look after your parents. And so that creates a reason for us all to get together, whether it's here or New York or England or Trinidad. Right? So all the, all the even my grandchildren, like it's just amazing the kids, what you have today, we didn't have, right? In our day. So, this what we're doing now. I will hear something from my grandson about the other one that lives out West and I'd say, oh, how do you know that? Well, they're like playing games or doing this zoom thing and, you know, they're planning trips, “OK, when's the next trip?” And I will hear it from the kids, the grandchildren, the great nieces and nephews. So, they keep more in contact than I would with my brother or sister. Right? Because we're not into, we're old people. We don't know how to do this stuff. Not old, you know what I mean? But the kids and they would say, like sometimes they would be, they'd plan, you know, different time zones. And they would plan when they're going to get together and play games.  

Vera Cotter (10:09):

I do have siblings here, but yeah, I don't see them that often. And that's okay, right? That's okay. Because when we need, there's like 40 of us, like, yeah, and we don't care. So again, culture. Growing up on the islands, we don't care. We'd have like 30 people sleeping on the floor, like in one room, and you don't really fall asleep. There's always somebody talking or, you know, like that's how we grew up. And if we don't care that we have to sleep on the floor or as long as we're all together. So I have, you know, with one of these visits, as I get older, I, I can't handle it. But you do it. 

Latifa Saad (10:56): That is so great. Oh, I love that. That's so great. I love hearing the, the stories of, of family and culture.  

Vera Cotter (11:04): Yeah. Yeah.   

Latifa Saad (11:05): That's great. 

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (11:06): So, for the next set of questions, I'm gonna ask you them. Um, the first one is, do you live in a Caribbean community or a neighborhood where people celebrate Trinidadian occasions and traditions?

Vera Cotter (11:20):

No. Do you know what? You girls might not believe this when I moved to Belleville. So, Toronto is even more like Ottawa, even now, there's so many different cultures. 

When I moved to Belleville, and I lived there for 38 years, when I moved there 

there were only three brown, or ethnic or whatever families in Belleville. 

So, they didn't actually. It's so funny because I remember once my mother-in-law said to me at a restaurant, she says, “you know, every time we walk into the room, everyone looks at you” and, I kind of like, felt like it was because I was different, right? Like there's only white people, let's just, okay? There's only white, Caucasian people. And so, I said to my husband, I said, well, you know what? Maybe they look at me because they find me attractive. But I think her culture also is, you know, they're probably looking at me because I'm different. I don't know that for sure, but that's how I took it.  

Vera Cotter (12:40):

And when we were going to get married, she never told her mom that her only son was seeing someone that was a different religion, a different, um, race and everything. And when we decided to get married and she told granny, like her mom, “um, well, you know, Joe and Vera are going to get married and you know, she's different.” And, uh, Granny said, “Well, different. How so?” “Well, you know, she's not Catholic and she's not white and.” So, Mom is telling me this, my husband's mom, she said, “you know, I was telling Granny this, and Granny said, well, is she a nice person?” And Mom said, “Yep, she's a lovely girl.” And Granny said, “what does it matter if she's polka dot?” You know, now coming from when we got married, Granny would have been in her 70s or early 70s, right? Now, back in my day, being 22, I'm thinking, “wow, that's one smart lady.” Like, it's true. What? What does it matter? You know? Anyways, I talk a lot, so you have to stop me.  

Latifa Saad (13:57): So no, no Trinidadian culture? Like, really celebrating?  

Vera Cotter (14:00):

Never had. Only with my family. So, we always celebrate the like everything, like the Eid, you know, we always got together, but not at my place because it was Catholic. My daughter is Catholic, my husband's Catholic. But uh, for fasting in my religion, um, we, we do it right? But not as religiously. Like, I don't pray five times a day. I mean, there's no way. I'm sorry, but I'm not getting up at 5 or sunrise, and all that stuff, I can't do it. But when I go home, I have to do it, right? Like you have to do the culture thing. So, we get together, like in Toronto especially. So, um, the ones here, like from out West and from Kingston, we'll go to my brother's place, in Toronto and do the celebrations. 

Latifa Saad (14:59): Celebrations.

Vera Cotter (15:03): Um, if someone, we call it prayers, I don't know. So sometimes, uh, in my religion you get together and you'll do a prayer, uh meeting with, with even people from outside, close friends and stuff. That's another culture thing that you will get together for. And then they'll have a feast, you know, they cook all kinds of stuff and the same with Eid, which is our big celebration like Christmas. Um, there's always food. Food, lots of food in the culture. 

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (15:37): All right. Well, going along with that, um what celebrations, that you mentioned are most important to you? 

Vera Cotter (15:46): 

Oh, to myself personally? So being married, uh Catholic family also, believe it or not, as a Muslim, we always went to Muslim school until we got to high school, because the best schools were Catholic schools. Even though the nuns slapped you around like crazy in my day, like honestly, like it was like crazy. Like you dare not even look the wrong way. You'll be slapped. So, because of my husband's family and my family, we celebrate both Christmas and Eid. Those are important to me. Growing up, my father was, in Trinidad, my father was a school principal in his school. Um, it was in the country, so we had all different types of people, um, I never, I don't think you asked me a question about the people, the, the, the actual type of people from Trinidad. When I grew up it was English rule, but originally Spain owned Trinidad and Tobago, so there was Spanish speaking, Spanish culture. Then there was the French that took over, France, so there was, you know. And then in my day, it was like international. We had Chinese, we had Indian, we had the, the, you know, Middle East, and we had the Africans, you know, a lot of them came as slavery, like working cane fields and all that. Um, a lot of Europeans, East Indians were, East Indians was gold, they had gold store, jewelry stores. Chinese, oh, they owned all the grocery stores. The Middle East people like Lebanon and Syrian, clothing, cloth. So, a lot of those people brought their trade, whatever type of trade that they did, to Trinidad. So, I went back to that so you have a little knowledge that Trinidad had the most mixed, uh, cultures. You go to the other islands, you know, Grenada is next to us, Barbados then, and it goes up the line, Okay? They seem to have a specific like mostly the, the blacks, Barbados, a lot of European culture that mixed today. When you go there, you see a lot of, if they see an Indian Person or Chinese Person in Barbados, like back in my day, it was like, you know, my mother-in-law said they stared at me when I walked into the restaurant? That's what it was like in Barbados. Like they've never seen, they don't see Indian people, they don't see Chinese people. Trinidad was one of the only islands that had every different culture. I wanted to give you that history, so you know that there was so many, so much culture. So my dad was a principal. It was in the country. There were different religions and race or whatever. He taught us from the time we started school at five years old, you will participate in every, every culture. So you go to the temple, you go to mosque, you go to the Church, you go to everybody's and celebrate everybody's, um religion, religion and celebration. So that's how my family grew up, yeah.

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (19:44): That's beautiful. Um. So, my last question for you, would be, can you describe a typical day in your community? What does it look like? 

Vera Cotter (19:55): You're talking about the island way, right?

Maryam Cheikh Hassan (19:57): Yeah, you can, you can answer it whether at home or here, whichever one you would prefer.

Vera Cotter (20:07): 

I know because here it's kind of hard because I don't have many people of my culture, like even in Ottawa, like when you think of how many people live here, like I started by telling you 40,000 in Belleville. And there were only like when I left, there were more, more culture. There was more culture. But when I first went there, the first 10 years, there was only three different, three. And one of them, one of the families, was from Trinidad. So, like, I knew that family, but not to mingle with. Well, I go back home often. A typical day is, Trinidad people are very kinda, I wouldn't say lazy, but it takes them a long time to do anything. So, when you live in Canada and you go back to Trinidad, it's very frustrating, the traffic, I mean when I left, if, if you owned, if each household had a car, so one in 100 household had a car. Now, there's four and five, one for each child, one for the mother, one for the father, one for each child. So, the traffic is terrible. So, when I look at a day in Trinidad culture it is, and they have to even the banks closed at noon. There's this afternoon thing. They open at 7:00, but it's so hot they close at noon and the businesses, they actually have a siesta, like they have a nap and then they might open back again at 3 o’clock. So, life, like any most other islands, that's the way a day is for me. You get up and you always get up early because the sun rises early. So, you get up early, start your day early, you have a nap in the afternoon. You may just even, when I worked at the bank, if we were finished our work, we would borrow a manager's car and go to the beach. Like life in Trinidad is very, what's the word I'm looking for? It's not. 

Latifa Saad (22:2): Relaxed?

Vera Cotter (22:22): Yes, that's the word. Very relaxed. You just go with the flow. It's not here, but it can be a problem and frustrating because going with the flow doesn't always get stuff done.  

Latifa Saad (22:35): That's very interesting.  

Vera Cotter (22:38): It is.  

Latifa Saad (22:40): Compared to.  

Vera Cotter (22:41):

Yeah, if I didn't live here, I wouldn't know any better, right? But even people that live here and don't travel. My mother-in-law never travelled. They can't se, it's not, it's almost, it's almost ignorance, really, when you don't travel. So, they wouldn't understand the flooding and they wouldn't understand, “oh, that wouldn't happen to us” You know? With us, with a day in my life, it didn't matter what happened because that's the way they live, expect anything, right? Deal with it. 

Sydney Langlois (23:18): Alright, so my first question is what are some of the ways that you celebrate your heritage and, your community and your culture? 

Vera Cotter (23:29): Hmm.

Sydney Langlois (23:31): This can also be done, you know. . . you could think of everyday life practices. It doesn't have to be any, you know, major. . . 

Vera Cotter (23:38):

Do you know, on the islands? You're right. Everything's about food. Not, not just as a celebration, but when we cook, we cook enough food as if company is going to come over. If it's dinner time and somebody shows up, they're offered to sit and have a meal. Lunch time. Oh, open the door. “Oh, we're just having lunch. Come on in, sit down, have a meal.” So when I first moved here, for example, it was very, very, you have to, like, make arrangements. You just so knock on someone's door, and you'd never do that at meal time, right? Like. 

Latifa Saad (24:24): Like it's considered rude, yeah. 

Vera Cotter (24:25): Yeah, yeah. Whereas I grew up where there's always a big pot of food on the stove. 

And I like to eat. So I was glad the less people came over. There's more food for me to eat. No, serious, seriously. But that's just a lot of food.  

Latifa Saad (24:46): So would you cook traditional dishes to celebrate the heritage?  

Vera Cotter   24:47

Oh god yes. 

Vera Cotter   24:50

Oh, yes, we cook traditional every day. But we cook special traditional to celebrate. Yeah, yeah. 

Sydney Langlois   24:59 

I think there's a question specifically about food, so maybe we can get, get into some specifics there.

Sydney Langlois   25:06

Another question would be, what are some values that you hold most dear as a member of the Caribbean community? 

Vera Cotter (25:14):

Oh my God, a value. There's so many. Being like, coming from the Caribbean, because we, I explained that we come from different, um, ethnic groups all over the world, the harmony like, that we lived in in the 60s, 70s, 80s, I don't think you could have found that anywhere and I really value that I was able to live in that environment atmosphere like, everyone lived so peacefully, and just like the rest of the world today, it didn't stay that way. But that's what I value. That's what I grew up with. When you're not there and there's change, that doesn't really reflect in your heart, right? You still, I still remember growing up the way I did. And so, the fact that all these different nations could live together like that was very impressive.  

Latifa Saad (26:22): So, you could say that your culture taught you the value of understanding others’ cultures?  

Vera Cotter (26:28): Yep.

Latifa Saad (26:29): And integrating it?

Vera Cotter (26:30):

Yep, because living in that you had to, I mean, not everyone did, right? There's always somebody who wouldn't. But on the whole, I remember that always being a big thing. Yeah. And it's something not too many, you know, if you come from a certain country, like it's you and your culture. Whereas with me on the island of Trinidad, especially with all the different cultures moving in. You kind of have to live together in peace, right? In harmony.

Sydney Langlois (27:07): All right. So, my last question is, what would you like to share about yourself or your community that you feel it's important for people to know or understand?

Vera Cotter (27:21): 

Oh, okay. We are a little bit crazy, and it's taken the wrong way. People from the island, they are, because I told you, we're carefree. You know, um. Yeah, we do get serious, but mostly we would like to live that life. We're stress free almost. And a big thing is when we speak to people and we want to emphasize something, we touch you as if to get your attention. So in this day, maybe even back home, I don't know that. But this touching is such a bad thing, right? They'll take you to court because you, I might go to touch you, “Hey.” 

Latifa Saad (28:10): It's not well received, I guess.  

Vera Cotter (28:12):

It's not well received. And also I, I mentioned, yes, we're very carefree. I don't know, there might be a better word, but basically, you know, it's not like, it's not like we don't care. It's just if you, if something is going on and you cannot do anything about it, like why fret, right? Coming from the island, I came with that. Do I still have that after living here? I don't know that, but you asked what I valued and that would be a big thing. And I do like doing that to get people's attention. It's just so hard, so hard to stop. And honestly, in the workplace, especially in the past 10 years in Canada, like, that's not a good thing, right? You don't mean anything. You're just trying to get the attention. But I am happy that we grew up that way. I think a little touching or feeling is, is good in the right way. I still believe that. I still believe that. And I do believe that people, I always like, I'm at Costco part-time because I love to socialize. So, I like going into work for my few hours and you know, people. You know, the members or even clients at the bank, they can be so mean. And you know what I say to myself? There's a lot of unhappy people in this world, and they wait to come out and take it out on you. Whereas on the island? Everybody was happy, go lucky. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (29:48): I'm going to go with my questions now. The first one is, what—calling back to foods—what food do you make that reminds you of home? And where do you purchase your groceries to prepare your traditional meals? 

Vera Cotter (29:58): 

So I kind of go to Food Basics. They tend to have like a lot of ethnic stuff. I would sometimes get my brother to mail stuff if I can't find it around here because Toronto has so much. Now, Ottawa is getting better, right? 12 years ago? I think they have a lot more ethnic stuff now. Honestly, there's nothing like a good, curried duck. I don't know if you know what that is. There's nothing like a good Stew. You could do a chicken Stew, a beef Stew, but island, island, cooking way, island spices. We do a Stew where you caramelize brown sugar, but you don't let it burn. It has to be that caramel color and you, you throw your, your meat or your beef or your chicken or whatever into that mixture and honest to God, there's not anything that I know that would make a good Stew, taste, colour, everything. It gives it everything, the caramelizing effect of brown sugar, and I do crave that. The other thing that I crave, and I don't know that people do that and it's so easy, a beef bone, especially if you're sick. You can simmer that thing for a day, two days, and within the two days that you're sick, that's all you're doing the broth, right? It's not gonna go bad on the stove simmering. I do crave that, especially when I get sick, because when we grew up, we didn't go to the doctor. You had to be dying before you got taken to a doctor. They'd go in the backyard, and they'll pick some leaf or something, put it on the mumps or the measles, make a paste. Like again, the beef broth thing. That's where it came from, from home. And there was something else, and I remember it was horrible, but when you boil rice. Not to, not to cook it, but when you boil it in a bunch of water, it kind of looked like foamy water to me. And there was something when we got sick, they would make us drink that. So we grew up with all these weird medicines as well as food, cause the first time my, my mother-in-law saw Curry chicken, my husband loved it, so I would always make sure if he didn't go home with me, I brought some back and, and one of his sisters says, “oh, what's that? It's disgusting.” Again, people who don't travel like, and you don't talk about people's food. But I crave those things as maybe you crave some stuff that you're used to your ethnic stuff like, yeah. 

Vera Cotter (33:08):

People laugh when I tell them this, when I came to Canada or to the US, when I came to the West, a treat for us, if you got an ice cream cone like once every six months, like that was like heaven. We never had things like cake and doughnuts unless it's your birthday. Well, never doughnuts. I didn't know about doughnuts. The only thing I knew about was cake and ice cream. And you had those, you know, specialty occasions. But you know what? The biggest treats, like, things like dates and prunes. I remember, my, for celebrations. You asked about the food and stuff. Our treats for celebrating one of the big ones. You, you pit the prune and you stuff it with peanut butter. And how healthy is that too? Now, I didn't know it was healthy back then, but that was our treat, right? It wasn't all this sugar and cookies. I couldn't understand how they could eat cookies for dessert. But now, being here for so long, I stuff my face with all that stuff, right? But I still, I crave my food, like the curries and the lentil soup and the beef bone soup. Yeah, those things.  

Latifa Saad (34:24): I need those recipes. 

Vera Cotter (34:26): But they're so, those are easy things though, right? Like I put the stupid beef bone in a pot of a, you know, I water or throw a package, of , how do you pronounce K-N-O-R-R? Knorr? You know how they have those soup?  

Latifa Saad (34:43): The broth? 

Vera Cotter (34:44): No, their vegetable soup mix, like, even when I'm making my stews, my home stews, I put that in now. And my sister-in-law, the one that lives home looking after my parents, she has seen us do that, using that seasoning as a, um,  

Latifa Saad (35:02): Like an additional to that? 

Vera Cotter (35:04): You know, spike the food, the taste, and even they have started using it at home. So, it's easy. Like you just throw that on the stove and throw your beef bone in there and let it simmer. No recipe. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (35:22):

The next question is talking about the website that this interview could potentially end up on. Our anthropology class is, we're all doing these ethic interviews to be able to give some kind of answers and different interviews and cultures to the community, so people here have access if they can reach out if any other Caribbean people want to hear from people who have the same experiences as them. They can do it through this website. So we were wondering how likely you or your family or people within the community would be to use the website and how you think that it could be best utilized? If you think these interviews are a good way for people to use it or if we should add other things or anything that you would recommend. 

Vera Cotter (36:09): Let me see. 

Latifa Saad (36:09): How people could, um, learn your culture as well through the interviews that we're doing and watch it on the website.  

Vera Cotter (36:17): Okay, so okay, I was, I was thinking I got it wrong. I thought you meant, on your website, cultural, ethnic people can go on your website and actually have a say about how their culture works. Is that correct?  

Latifa Saad (36:38): Well, that's what we're doing right now. Yeah.  

Vera Cotter (36:39): Yeah. 

Latifa Saad (36:39): Yeah, in a way, yes.

Vera Cotter (36:41): They can—you're saying this question, this last question—they can actually go on themselves without your knowledge? No? 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (36:51): 

Yeah, so people can access like any of the interviews. So, there's interviews, there's art posted on Anthro Harvest, so then they can listen to them. And there could be other things, but if you think that there should be an interactive portion as well, that could be a recommendation or.

Latifa Saad (37:07): So what do you think could make it better and more interactive so that they learn?

Vera Cotter (37:11): You have to advertise that somewhere then, your website.  

Latifa Saad (37:16): That could be a good, that's a good point.  

Vera Cotter (37:18):

You have to set it out somewhere where people can, it's like Google, learn about whatever. I don't know how, how I, I am not tech savvy, so you as a student have to now put that out there, and someone, you know, if I saw that out there, I'd go click, Yep, let me see what's going on. What did she say?  

Latifa Saad (37:46): That would be, that's a really good suggestion.  

Vera Cotter (37:48):

So that's the way, that's why I'm confused as to how these people are gonna see that, right? First of all, you guys got to create something where the interest pops up on social media. That's I don't know how you know like under the university, ‘U’ of, University of Ottawa “interviews, uh, different cultures.” Whatever you guys can, you guys can figure it out, but you've got to put it out there because I would, if I saw that, if I Googled something like that, University of Ottawa interviews, cultural interviews, I might click on that because I want to see Who and What? 

Latifa Saad (38:33): So, you think we should put more time in promoting this? 

Vera Cotter (38:35):

In promoting, that's the word. Oh my God, sorry. I mean, that could be something else that you, uh, your program that you're doing now, these interviews, you talk to your prof and say, hey, you know what we need to promote. We're doing all this work. We need to promote this. You know, get it out there. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee (38:54): To last to wrap it up, do you have any other comments or concerns? 

Latifa Saad: Like any other questions—

Vera Cotter: Yeah, No, I'm kind of glad it's done because I haven't been interviewed in like, I'm, in like early 70s. I haven't had an interview in a long time. I hope it works out. I hope it works out. 

Seanna Aarts-Magee: It was very wonderful. Your answers were so insightful. Thank you very, very much. 

Sydney Langlois: Thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us and for your insight. And just thank you so much. We really, really appreciate it.

Vera Cotter: But don't go telling everyone that we're crazy. We are, but—