Palmer, Elizabeth

Palmer, Elizabeth

Interview about life on campus in the University of Ottawa in the 1970s, including social life, and people's views during that time.

2023-10-23

mp4, 1:01:37

English

oral history

Paradis, Philippe

Palmer, Elizabeth

Ottawa, Ontario, via Teams

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Philippe Alain Paradis
So for the first question, cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music and consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Ottawa has a bilingual institution and we want to better understand how anglophones and francophones related together.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So the first question would be there were less electronics in Canada in the 70s.
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Liz Palmer
Like none.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So how was your leisure time structured or what did you Ottawa students do for fun in the 70s?
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Liz Palmer
Well, we went to the pub after school.
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Liz Palmer
I'm sure they still do that now, but there was.
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Liz Palmer
We went to my father, used to laugh.
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Liz Palmer
We went to the library every night and after the library closed that cause I was studying nursing.
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Liz Palmer
So we were at the medical library, we would go to the the Albion, which I don't think is there anymore.
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Liz Palmer
It's gone and probably went there almost every night.
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Liz Palmer
There were dances, there were.
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Liz Palmer
We ran the School of Nursing on.
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Liz Palmer
We were in the and at that point we were at the building where engineering is now.
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Liz Palmer
Which is probably an old building to you, but for us it was brand new and every Friday we ran a pub.
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Liz Palmer
One week it was by nursing and the other week it was by the engineering students.
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Liz Palmer
So there were lots of pubs, parties, lots of get togethers.
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Liz Palmer
Umm, that kind of thing.
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Liz Palmer
And there was some art groups.
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Liz Palmer
There were readings.
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Liz Palmer
There were.
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Liz Palmer
Poetry readings auto.
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Liz Palmer
You had a lot of that kind of stuff and they used to go to all those sorts of things, yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So like a lot of obviously in person activities.
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Liz Palmer
All it was all in person.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
And so you mentioned pubs, so that sort of answers the question.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
What we're the most popular hangout spots on and off campus.
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Liz Palmer
It would be the Albion for us and and then the pub that we ran, the weekly pub that ran at the at the at the build.
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Liz Palmer
I forget what the name of the building is now, but it was it's.
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Liz Palmer
It's the engineering building now.
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Liz Palmer
They had a big common room there and that's that's that was every Friday night through the through the whole year.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Nice.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Did you attend any live music events during the university years?
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Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah yeah, a lot of those things that we went to had live bands.
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Liz Palmer
Some of them had DJ's, umm.
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Liz Palmer
There was no rap in those days.
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Liz Palmer
Everything was disco in the 70s, so yeah, it was, yeah, pretty much.
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Liz Palmer
Ohh, looky, Looky Boo was a big deal on Sussex and it was alternative music at the time.
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Liz Palmer
Umm, it would have been folk music, different things like that.
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Liz Palmer
Different groups would have come into that smaller area.
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Liz Palmer
Bruce Coburn in different people like that.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Were there a lot of rock bands back then?
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Philippe Alain Paradis
At these places.
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Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah yeah, there were some that wasn't really.
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Liz Palmer
I I liked a lot of different music but.
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Liz Palmer
Trying to think of there were quite a number of Ottawa that five man electrical band I think was one of them.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So disco is the big one.
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Liz Palmer
Disco was the big thing at that time.
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Liz Palmer
Probably more into the mid 70s, but I started in started Ottawa U.
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Liz Palmer
Guess it was September of 1970, yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Ottawa said earlier auto you auto was the bilingual institution.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
How linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s?
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Liz Palmer
Yep, Yep.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Did francophones and anglophones enroll in the same university courses and participate in the same clubs? Yeah.
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Liz Palmer
I wasn't a big club person.
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Liz Palmer
The nursing program was very busy.
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Liz Palmer
We had lots of classes in.
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Liz Palmer
Mike was interesting in my class Ottawa.
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Liz Palmer
You the first year there were, I would say, 120 students, 130 students maybe.
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Liz Palmer
I don't know.
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Liz Palmer
They seem to be a lot out, I'd say more than half of them were French speaking.
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Liz Palmer
They had very little, if any, English.
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Liz Palmer
Most of them came to Ottawa.
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Liz Palmer
Because they were told they could take their course in French.
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Liz Palmer
However, the nursing program at that time was very new in on Canada and especially on Ontario.
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Liz Palmer
So they're all the teachers came from the US or had been trained in the US so they all spoke English.
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Liz Palmer
So all the nursing programs were done in English, but they could do all their other classes in French.
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Liz Palmer
So we lost, I would say at least 1/3 of the students after first year because they couldn't, they couldn't.
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Liz Palmer
They weren't good enough in English to to pass to sit through the classes, so I don't know where they went.
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Liz Palmer
They may have gone to to Montreal or to Sherbrooke, or I don't know where they went.
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Liz Palmer
But the English, the nursing program was only offered in English.
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Liz Palmer
I'm I'm not sure, but I think it still is even to this day.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Huh, that's interesting.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
They were really just French.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
There weren't as many bilingual people?
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Liz Palmer
Well, the bilingual students were fine, but there were a large number of French only students, and they came from all over Quebec.
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Liz Palmer
Small a lot of them came from small towns, northern Ontario.
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Liz Palmer
Some of them came from New Brunswick and and they only spoke French.
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Liz Palmer
So, but anyone who was bilingual and and had enough English.
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Liz Palmer
Uh.
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Liz Palmer
A number of my friends were French Canadian and they but they were bilingual and they had enough of English that they could.
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Liz Palmer
They could handle the course load, so that was fine, but if you were totally French, it was very difficult.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
You might not know this cause it's like a really specific question, but do you have any information on if anglophones and francophones dated each other during the 1970s?
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Liz Palmer
Oh, absolutely.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
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Liz Palmer
Absolutely. Sure.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Interesting.
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Liz Palmer
Why wouldn't we?
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm, so we use the term alright.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
I mean, I guess like the language barrier with a lot of them, right?
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Philippe Alain Paradis
If they if they just spoke French, they.
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Liz Palmer
Most I'll tell you, most French people speak some English.
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Liz Palmer
Most English people don't speak very much French.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
I've I've found that to be true as well, yeah.
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Liz Palmer
And I spoke, I I grew up in a Ottawa in a in a real working class neighborhood and I would say more than 50% of the people in my neighborhood spoke French.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
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Liz Palmer
So I could speak French to A to some degree, yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So we use the term party culture to refer to social activities outside of the classroom.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
How do you describe the party culture on the University Ottawa campus during 70s?
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Liz Palmer
Vibrant.
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Liz Palmer
It was.
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Liz Palmer
It was very active and it was great.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah, we had a lot of parties.
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Liz Palmer
We I remember everything was face to face.
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Liz Palmer
There was no virtual stuff.
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Liz Palmer
Computers didn't really exist.
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Liz Palmer
I had a friend who was in.
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Liz Palmer
Uh, in computer math at in Kitchener.
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Liz Palmer
Waterloo at Waterloo.
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Liz Palmer
You and she.
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Liz Palmer
I would go down to visit her and I would go into would go in at 2:00, o'clock in the morning to play, quote, unquote play on the computer.
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Liz Palmer
And the computer was the size of a of a huge room, right?
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Liz Palmer
So computers, that's the that's that was probably 7273 somewhere in there.
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Liz Palmer
So at that point, there were no tabletop computers or anything that you could that you could easily use.
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Liz Palmer
There were no phones like cell phones or anything like that.
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Liz Palmer
So yeah, the whole culture was, uh, face to face party, music, dancing, you know, different things like that. So.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
You really had to like if you want to have fun.
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Liz Palmer
Well, it was.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
You really have to like set up events and stuff that there wasn't as much digital stuff you want or any digital stuff you could do, yeah.
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Liz Palmer
It was normal to set stuff up.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
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Liz Palmer
I mean, whether you go down to the market, the market was a place that you could go to, but it wasn't the way it is now.
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Liz Palmer
Leibu was on Sussex and then there were a couple of other coffee houses in the city, but.
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Liz Palmer
If you wanted to meet people, you had to go out and and it was just you.
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Liz Palmer
Just everybody just went out all the time.
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Liz Palmer
It was none of this, like, you know, covid's really put a damper on a whole lot of stuff.
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Liz Palmer
So life was very, very different.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Today, if you want to go to a party, you like have to seek it out pretty intensely.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah, I.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
I find like the you have to, you have to really look for it. Umm.
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Liz Palmer
So yeah, the and the girls that lived in the I lived at home, I say half the class.
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Liz Palmer
The My class still lived at home in Ottawa.
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Liz Palmer
A few were from outside the city and a number of people lived, you know, on on campus.
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Liz Palmer
And there were campus.
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Liz Palmer
There were parties, you know, and on campus as well.
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Liz Palmer
And there was, I think there were.
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Liz Palmer
Not that I went there very often, but there were small little cafes all around the university and you could go there and just drink.
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Liz Palmer
They didn't have booze or anything, but you go drink coffee and meet your friends and stuff.
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Liz Palmer
And there were a number of those places around.
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Liz Palmer
There were couple on on Laurie.
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Liz Palmer
There was a coffee, quote unquote coffee house at the university, but it was kind of more like a, you know, a great big open area.
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Liz Palmer
It wasn't very intimate or small or anything like that, but yeah, yeah.
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Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Total like 180 from that what did the student body think about the Vietnam War?
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Like the general sentiment.
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Liz Palmer
Pretty much over by then.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
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Liz Palmer
It was in my life.
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Liz Palmer
It wasn't a huge deal.
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Liz Palmer
The bigger deal, because I was at school during the October crisis.
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Liz Palmer
Uh.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
And.
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Liz Palmer
With the FLQ.
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Liz Palmer
So when I was walking up to school, there were soldiers in the streets and there were tanks in the streets.
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Liz Palmer
And that was interesting, I mean, but it just was there, I mean those things you know, if there's, you know you're walking up to school one day cause I lived in new Edinburgh and I would walk up to Ottawa.
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Liz Palmer
You where I take the bus and all of a sudden there were tanks in the streets and there were and they because Ottawa U was a French university, quote unquote. It was.
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Liz Palmer
It was classified as a French university.
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Liz Palmer
They had a lot of soldiers and stuff around there.
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Liz Palmer
Nothing ever happened, but it because of the FLQ crisis and everything that happened after that, there was a lot of.
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Liz Palmer
I guess there was a lot of people watching to make sure nothing else would happen, but I never saw anything happened.
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Liz Palmer
I just remember walking up and seeing this and being thinking ohh, but I wasn't terribly politically involved at that point.
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Liz Palmer
Exactly, yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Right, that, that reminds me a little bit of my first year when I am I could hear like the trucker convoy honking like it's it's just kind of jarring to know that there's like a large group of people that in, like, tensions are really high.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, that must have been something to witness.
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Liz Palmer
It it it was, it was quite something that we never seen anything like that before, right?
0:12:42.250 --> 0:12:50.30
Liz Palmer
And but there was no like, I mean there my parents would say, well, I I tell them what happened and they say, oh, well, just stay out of the neighborhood or walk around it.
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Liz Palmer
And nobody had little fits about, you know, all the oh, my God, my kids gonna get killed or something.
0:12:56.530 --> 0:12:57.120
Liz Palmer
It was nothing.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
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Liz Palmer
I guess people just didn't realize what could have happened if something had happened.
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Liz Palmer
You know, I don't know, but.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, it's interesting that people weren't as well, like, at least some people weren't as interested in the Vietnam War cause the way like I was taught it, it was such like a contentious thing.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
But I guess by the 70s it was, it was mostly done with.
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Liz Palmer
It was contentious in the states.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
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Liz Palmer
There were in Canada.
0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:23.890
Liz Palmer
There were.
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Liz Palmer
There was a woman in my class whose husband was a deserter or a conscientious objector or deserter, according to whichever side you were on and and she and she and her husband moved up from the States and she was quite a bit older.
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Liz Palmer
She was probably in her mid mid 20s and she had a child at that point, so they came up ohm because of that and that was always interesting.
0:13:49.560 --> 0:13:49.920
Liz Palmer
You talked?
0:13:49.930 --> 0:13:53.260
Liz Palmer
Or kept in touch with her for years and years after.
0:13:53.430 --> 0:13:54.420
Liz Palmer
But they never went back.
0:13:55.430 --> 0:14:0.920
Liz Palmer
They stayed in Canada that they liked it and they didn't want their son to end up going through what they had gone through.
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Liz Palmer
But I mean, it was in the news all the time and whatever.
0:14:3.990 --> 0:14:10.780
Liz Palmer
But it was just part of it's, you know, part of the regular news news reports.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm so rock'n'roll artists and the 1960s had promoted various forms of protest.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Did your parents see rock'n'roll as rebellious or just a form of popular music?
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Liz Palmer
Thanking care one way or the other, my parents were from Switzerland, so they were first generate like they were.
0:14:34.70 --> 0:14:43.0
Liz Palmer
They both came in the late 40s and had every intention of moving back to Switzerland, but then somehow with four kids, it didn't happen.
0:14:43.370 --> 0:14:44.270
Liz Palmer
So they were really.
0:14:46.150 --> 0:14:46.890
Liz Palmer
Music.
0:14:46.930 --> 0:14:49.330
Liz Palmer
Yeah, rock'n'roll was just a type of music for them.
0:14:49.340 --> 0:14:52.360
Liz Palmer
They didn't particularly like it, but we didn't.
0:14:52.510 --> 0:14:59.790
Liz Palmer
I didn't really start listening to the radio till I was about 12 years old, maybe 12 or 13 or so.
0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:8.880
Liz Palmer
That would have been what, 6465, somewhere like that, as I really didn't know much about the music at all.
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Liz Palmer
And I was the oldest of four.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
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Liz Palmer
So U the others followed whatever they wanted to.
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Philippe Alain Paradis
So they were kind of just indifferent about it, uh.
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Liz Palmer
Yeah, it was, yeah, pretty much.
0:15:22.70 --> 0:15:28.30
Philippe Alain Paradis
Uh, so some youth culture voices of the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs.
0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.20
Philippe Alain Paradis
To what extent were recreational drugs available on campus during the 70s?
0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:34.330
Liz Palmer
Not quite available.
0:15:33.470 --> 0:15:34.950
Philippe Alain Paradis
If you know, yeah.
0:15:34.620 --> 0:15:35.990
Liz Palmer
Yeah, they were quite available.
0:15:36.380 --> 0:15:37.290
Liz Palmer
Yeah, they were.
0:15:37.300 --> 0:15:43.510
Liz Palmer
There was always somebody you could always buy something you always knew there was somebody around who could get stuff for you.
0:15:44.220 --> 0:15:47.450
Liz Palmer
Never did anything for me, just made me feel sick.
0:15:47.460 --> 0:15:48.900
Liz Palmer
So I never did much of it.
0:15:49.550 --> 0:15:51.370
Liz Palmer
Umm so it's.
0:15:53.820 --> 0:15:57.270
Liz Palmer
And we were so busy with other things that we didn't have time for that.
0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:7.700
Liz Palmer
I mean, you know when when you're doing a nursing program, you went to school five days a week and then, but then you had to do, we had to be in the hospital 3 mornings a week.
0:16:7.710 --> 0:16:11.370
Liz Palmer
So you didn't have time to, you didn't have time for any of that nonsense.
0:16:11.380 --> 0:16:18.810
Liz Palmer
And we were all older and most of us, well, certainly me didn't have any access to it.
0:16:18.820 --> 0:16:24.30
Liz Palmer
I went to a Catholic girls high school, so it was pretty strict and my family was very strict.
0:16:24.140 --> 0:16:26.930
Liz Palmer
So I never really had got into this.
0:16:34.80 --> 0:16:34.810
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:35.110
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:16:29.0 --> 0:16:37.130
Liz Palmer
Probably until I got to university, but and it was never a big deal for me or my friends, yeah.
0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.770
Philippe Alain Paradis
Today it's pretty common like today, it's pretty common.
0:16:37.780 --> 0:16:41.430
Philippe Alain Paradis
You'll see, like I'll be in the parking lot and I'll see someone smoking something a little funny.
0:16:42.110 --> 0:16:42.310
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:47.970
Philippe Alain Paradis
And and you know it's it's very it was it open like that back then like it was just or well a more secretive.
0:16:46.370 --> 0:16:49.840
Liz Palmer
No, no, because it it was far more secretive.
0:16:49.850 --> 0:17:1.830
Liz Palmer
I mean, I mean, the best thing was, is I remember we go to parties and there were brownies and I love brownies, so I would eat these brownies and and feel really weird after that.
0:17:1.840 --> 0:17:4.160
Liz Palmer
And then somebody would say how many did you have?
0:17:4.170 --> 0:17:9.790
Liz Palmer
And I say I had two or three and I said, Oh my God, you better go home or go sit in the corner and fall asleep.
0:17:9.800 --> 0:17:11.730
Liz Palmer
So that's all it ever did and made me sleep.
0:17:11.740 --> 0:17:21.460
Liz Palmer
So I was no fun at a party if they if if there were any drugs like that around it, it just wasn't something I wanted to waste my time or my money on.
0:17:21.470 --> 0:17:22.610
Liz Palmer
I didn't have any money either.
0:17:22.620 --> 0:17:24.770
Liz Palmer
So you know that was the other thing too.
0:17:24.0 --> 0:17:26.660
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, not super appealing.
0:17:27.390 --> 0:17:27.590
Liz Palmer
No.
0:17:29.260 --> 0:17:38.930
Philippe Alain Paradis
And the 19 in the 1970s see a lot of talk about tripping and taking psychedelics to reach like a higher state of consciousness.
0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.340
Philippe Alain Paradis
Do you know like to what extent people use Hallucinogenics specifically?
0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:46.950
Liz Palmer
Not many people I knew.
0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.280
Liz Palmer
We just, we all just figured it was stupid to do that.
0:17:50.700 --> 0:17:50.920
Philippe Alain Paradis
Fair.
0:17:50.620 --> 0:17:52.610
Liz Palmer
So why would you want to do that to yourself?
0:17:53.460 --> 0:17:53.650
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:17:53.780 --> 0:17:58.590
Liz Palmer
Like we, we were not umm, we're very practical.
0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:1.60
Liz Palmer
Down to Earth people, I don't know that it was just not.
0:18:2.680 --> 0:18:17.180
Liz Palmer
I mean, I guess also because we were in nursing in medicine, we would see the results of some of this and it was very you know when we're doing mental health, there were a lot of people at the royal at that time who had tripped badly and there was no way I was gonna do any of that stuff.
0:18:18.170 --> 0:18:18.880
Philippe Alain Paradis
That's interesting.
0:18:18.890 --> 0:18:23.230
Philippe Alain Paradis
You actually got to see like the the bad results from that. Umm.
0:18:23.20 --> 0:18:23.310
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:34.910
Liz Palmer
And if some of them were pretty awful, I mean that that was, I think the thing being in medicine or nursing or anything is that you you saw the result of bad medicine or bad tripping or bad drugs or whatever it was.
0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.540
Liz Palmer
And you know, it was not pleasant.
0:18:38.820 --> 0:18:40.100
Liz Palmer
And and again we weren't.
0:18:39.90 --> 0:18:40.220
Philippe Alain Paradis
Did you get a lot of those?
0:18:42.850 --> 0:18:43.580
Liz Palmer
There were some.
0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.70
Liz Palmer
You know, we surgeries that went bad.
0:18:48.80 --> 0:19:4.610
Liz Palmer
Uh, I saw a 12 year old have a baby and decided that point that maybe you know that having an abortion was not a bad thing, got into a lot of our angry discussions with my own parents who are fiercely Catholic and whatever.
0:19:4.620 --> 0:19:15.350
Liz Palmer
And at that point, I left the church, and because there's no way that I could ever condone a 12 year old having a baby because that was, you know, she was my she was my client.
0:19:15.360 --> 0:19:20.280
Liz Palmer
And I'm thinking, Holy God, you know, that's just not a way for anybody to start their life.
0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:21.600
Philippe Alain Paradis
Nope.
0:19:22.350 --> 0:19:22.540
Liz Palmer
No.
0:19:24.130 --> 0:19:26.270
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm, alright, so this one.
0:19:30.420 --> 0:19:30.630
Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.
0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:43.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
Will this next section will focus more on the female experience, so cultural historians have written a lot about what they call second wave feminism that as a part of the counterculture movement, women during the early 1970s sought to break down gender barriers.
0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:44.80
Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.
0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:49.50
Philippe Alain Paradis
Does this argument resonate with your experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the early 70s?
0:19:54.310 --> 0:19:54.820
Liz Palmer
I don't know.
0:19:54.830 --> 0:19:59.800
Liz Palmer
I mean, there was we, we read all the the books and we, you know, we followed all that sort of stuff.
0:20:0.810 --> 0:20:2.530
Liz Palmer
Probably more so than the war in Vietnam.
0:20:5.830 --> 0:20:14.760
Liz Palmer
But everything was changing at that time, so it was very different from probably people have been at university in the 60s like.
0:20:14.770 --> 0:20:25.730
Liz Palmer
I mean, if you if you would talk to someone who was university in the 60s, if you'd get it very different viewpoint, I think umm, it was accepted that women would work.
0:20:26.740 --> 0:20:30.360
Liz Palmer
It was accepted that, you know, women would get equal pay.
0:20:32.70 --> 0:20:33.130
Liz Palmer
Uh, of course.
0:20:33.140 --> 0:20:36.170
Liz Palmer
At that point, everybody is saying, oh, yes, yes, yes, that's the way it is.
0:20:36.180 --> 0:20:42.380
Liz Palmer
And it wasn't till 20 years later that we realized that women were being paid less for the same jobs.
0:20:42.450 --> 0:20:42.980
Liz Palmer
Right.
0:20:43.580 --> 0:20:43.850
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:20:43.860 --> 0:20:44.580
Philippe Alain Paradis
They're wage gap.
0:20:43.90 --> 0:20:44.860
Liz Palmer
But that had yet to come.
0:20:45.130 --> 0:20:45.530
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:20:45.590 --> 0:20:51.360
Liz Palmer
So the so the possibilities were there, everybody looked forward to things changing.
0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:59.560
Liz Palmer
You know the burn, your bra thing that was there were a lot of went to a lot of those sorts of rallies and things like that.
0:21:0.580 --> 0:21:6.130
Liz Palmer
Umm, but honestly, we were so busy we didn't have time to do a lot of that.
0:21:6.140 --> 0:21:12.420
Liz Palmer
I mean, we were busy living our life and going to school and doing stuff was, you know, we didn't.
0:21:12.810 --> 0:21:14.450
Liz Palmer
You had to hand write all your essays.
0:21:15.770 --> 0:21:17.140
Liz Palmer
I didn't have a typewriter.
0:21:17.430 --> 0:21:25.60
Liz Palmer
So you can imagine like you know, you were busy doing stuff and you actually had to go to a library and use books to look things up.
0:21:25.70 --> 0:21:27.0
Liz Palmer
There was nothing online to do it.
0:21:27.10 --> 0:21:33.760
Liz Palmer
So your life was busy doing things that now take a tenth of the time of what they used to take.
0:21:35.250 --> 0:21:35.710
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:21:34.730 --> 0:21:44.340
Liz Palmer
And there's no there were no chat bots or whatever to get you through stuff, and there was no AI to write your papers for you or anything, you know.
0:21:44.350 --> 0:21:46.340
Liz Palmer
So it was it was.
0:21:46.570 --> 0:21:47.280
Liz Palmer
It was different.
0:21:47.290 --> 0:21:47.660
Liz Palmer
It was a very.
0:21:49.450 --> 0:21:56.290
Liz Palmer
Different time and I guess for women, I do remember I had a a friend in my class.
0:21:56.300 --> 0:21:58.560
Liz Palmer
Her father was a physician here in Ottawa.
0:21:58.670 --> 0:22:0.440
Liz Palmer
Old, old fashioned.
0:22:0.890 --> 0:22:1.740
Liz Palmer
Nice man.
0:22:1.750 --> 0:22:3.310
Liz Palmer
Old-fashioned French Canadian.
0:22:5.360 --> 0:22:7.190
Liz Palmer
His daughter is was brilliant.
0:22:7.280 --> 0:22:14.770
Liz Palmer
Probably the smartest of the whole family should have been a position, but he wouldn't allow her to do medicine because she was a girl.
0:22:14.820 --> 0:22:22.400
Liz Palmer
Because women should stay home and have babies and look after their families and and at the time, I couldn't.
0:22:25.340 --> 0:22:25.620
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:22:22.410 --> 0:22:25.830
Liz Palmer
I I had really had a problem with that because.
0:22:25.630 --> 0:22:33.630
Philippe Alain Paradis
So you went to like some events because like, I imagine that probably like sure like that made you feel stuff there that that's pretty that's pretty like upsetting to hear.
0:22:33.980 --> 0:22:35.40
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah. Yeah.
0:22:33.930 --> 0:22:37.690
Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah, it was I I found it very upsetting but I have to.
0:22:38.580 --> 0:22:44.210
Liz Palmer
It wasn't till years later till I realized that my parents were very different from a lot of other.
0:22:44.220 --> 0:22:47.70
Liz Palmer
I came from a low a very working class neighborhood.
0:22:48.490 --> 0:22:54.350
Liz Palmer
My parents both worked with no choice because they, but because they came from Europe, they were.
0:22:54.360 --> 0:22:58.320
Liz Palmer
They weren't German, they were Swiss, but they were always treated as if they were German.
0:22:58.330 --> 0:22:59.990
Liz Palmer
So post war, that was a big deal.
0:23:2.400 --> 0:23:12.10
Liz Palmer
But my parents always said to said to my sister and I at the two oldest you guys are going to go to university like there was never any option that we wouldn't go.
0:23:13.50 --> 0:23:17.0
Liz Palmer
It was expected that we would go to university and that's all there was to it.
0:23:17.170 --> 0:23:18.420
Liz Palmer
We grew up that way.
0:23:18.430 --> 0:23:30.700
Liz Palmer
My brothers, my two younger brothers, went as well and I didn't realize till I was quite a bit older than a lot of women like they had to pay their own way to go to universe.
0:23:30.710 --> 0:23:35.580
Liz Palmer
Their parents wouldn't pay for it because women didn't go to university in those days.
0:23:36.130 --> 0:23:36.710
Liz Palmer
They just didn't.
0:23:37.810 --> 0:23:41.450
Liz Palmer
Umm, it was just you would go to.
0:23:41.460 --> 0:23:43.190
Liz Palmer
You know you could work in the government.
0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:44.790
Liz Palmer
You could do secretarial school.
0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:52.470
Liz Palmer
I had good friends that did secretarial school, but out of my like, I'm thinking about my my sort of grade school class.
0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.100
Liz Palmer
My even my high school, my high school class, was the best.
0:23:56.770 --> 0:24:10.780
Liz Palmer
Graduated June 1970, I would say 1/3 of 1/3 of my class went on to university and I would say about half my class got married because they were.
0:24:11.130 --> 0:24:14.960
Liz Palmer
They were Italian background so they got it.
0:24:15.70 --> 0:24:21.560
Liz Palmer
They were lucky they got through high school and then they got married that summer and then the rest of us went on to do different things.
0:24:21.570 --> 0:24:25.310
Liz Palmer
And I say maybe 1/3 of us out of that class went on to university.
0:24:26.120 --> 0:24:27.620
Liz Palmer
So it was a very different time.
0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:28.830
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:24:34.860 --> 0:24:36.750
Liz Palmer
I wasn't inequality, it's just the way it was.
0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:37.230
Liz Palmer
It was.
0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:37.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
So like as you went along, you started being exposed to more of these like injustices and like inequalities and a little bit, right?
0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:38.70
Liz Palmer
It was cultural.
0:24:38.80 --> 0:24:46.280
Liz Palmer
It was very, very cultural and because because it was a Catholic girls school, there were a lot of Italian young ladies there.
0:24:46.290 --> 0:24:52.180
Liz Palmer
They were friends, but those of us that weren't that were from different backgrounds.
0:24:52.190 --> 0:25:0.140
Liz Palmer
I would say uh, as I said about 1/3 a third of bus went on to university and and finished university and did different things.
0:25:1.550 --> 0:25:4.140
Liz Palmer
But then a whole lot of them didn't.
0:25:4.210 --> 0:25:7.960
Liz Palmer
You know, some went on to secretarial school, some worked in a government.
0:25:9.40 --> 0:25:12.110
Liz Palmer
It was umm, but I didn't realize again.
0:25:12.120 --> 0:25:21.280
Liz Palmer
As I said earlier, until much later in life that my family was very different because the expectation was that we would go to university and my parents paid for it.
0:25:21.290 --> 0:25:22.160
Liz Palmer
That was the other thing.
0:25:22.780 --> 0:25:23.110
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:25:22.750 --> 0:25:23.390
Liz Palmer
My dad.
0:25:23.120 --> 0:25:23.530
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like you.
0:25:23.470 --> 0:25:24.130
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:25:24.350 --> 0:25:25.240
Liz Palmer
Yeah, my dad sort.
0:25:29.220 --> 0:25:29.370
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:32.80
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, you didn't realize like maybe later other people wouldn't agree with that, like other people might not like the notion of a woman going. Yeah.
0:25:33.980 --> 0:25:34.200
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:25:32.820 --> 0:25:34.690
Liz Palmer
Oh yeah, no women didn't.
0:25:34.780 --> 0:25:41.90
Liz Palmer
There was still that that old fashioned idea that women don't go to university, they don't need higher education because they're just gonna get married.
0:25:41.100 --> 0:25:43.100
Liz Palmer
And they're gonna have kids, and they're gonna stay home.
0:25:43.850 --> 0:25:49.490
Liz Palmer
Well, neither myself, my sister nor my good friends did any of that.
0:25:49.500 --> 0:25:50.800
Liz Palmer
We we all.
0:25:50.860 --> 0:25:53.200
Liz Palmer
Yeah, most of us married, we all had jobs.
0:25:53.210 --> 0:25:53.910
Liz Palmer
We worked.
0:25:54.330 --> 0:26:7.310
Liz Palmer
We were like that whole generation of younger women that had our children use daycare or whatever and and continued working right up until we retired.
0:26:8.700 --> 0:26:9.150
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alright.
0:26:9.330 --> 0:26:13.910
Philippe Alain Paradis
And gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today.
0:26:14.120 --> 0:26:14.630
Philippe Alain Paradis
How did?
0:26:14.740 --> 0:26:15.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
How did that?
0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:16.790
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:26:17.180 --> 0:26:17.620
Liz Palmer
No kidding.
0:26:16.830 --> 0:26:18.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
How did peeing a woman?
0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:18.890
Philippe Alain Paradis
How?
0:26:18.900 --> 0:26:26.400
Philippe Alain Paradis
How is it being a woman result in different treatments and expectations in classrooms where at social events compared to male students?
0:26:27.970 --> 0:26:31.120
Liz Palmer
It's hard to say because most everyone in my class was female.
0:26:31.130 --> 0:26:33.390
Liz Palmer
There were no male students, so.
0:26:33.450 --> 0:26:34.20
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alright.
0:26:34.750 --> 0:26:41.770
Liz Palmer
So in those days, yes, if you were going in to a building, the men would hold the door for you.
0:26:44.300 --> 0:26:44.500
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:26:44.230 --> 0:26:45.340
Liz Palmer
That's all I.
0:26:45.380 --> 0:26:52.360
Liz Palmer
But as you know, when it came to other, I think expectations of female students and male students were the same.
0:26:52.370 --> 0:26:53.480
Liz Palmer
You had to produce.
0:26:53.790 --> 0:26:58.950
Liz Palmer
You know, if there was paperwork to be done or essays to be written, you had to produce those.
0:27:0.540 --> 0:27:5.150
Liz Palmer
I don't because my class was all women and all taught by women.
0:27:5.160 --> 0:27:7.670
Liz Palmer
There were no male teachers either it.
0:27:8.800 --> 0:27:16.300
Liz Palmer
I mean, I took the psychology and philosophy and I did some film classes and art classes and stuff, but.
0:27:21.150 --> 0:27:21.540
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:27:18.470 --> 0:27:22.210
Liz Palmer
I didn't feel that there was any difference, to be honest. Yeah.
0:27:24.230 --> 0:27:24.990
Liz Palmer
That was it, yeah.
0:27:21.670 --> 0:27:26.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
You just attended class and did the work and that was that. Yeah.
0:27:26.360 --> 0:27:39.160
Philippe Alain Paradis
So in the 1970s, were there, you oughta programs, departments or clubs or like just social events or anything where women like or maybe you or just women in general, like felt less like present and accepted.
0:27:42.750 --> 0:27:42.930
Philippe Alain Paradis
No.
0:27:42.750 --> 0:27:43.930
Liz Palmer
No, I never felt that.
0:27:44.980 --> 0:27:45.260
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alright.
0:27:45.340 --> 0:27:47.130
Liz Palmer
Now if I wanted to be there, I'd be there.
0:27:47.140 --> 0:27:49.500
Liz Palmer
If I didn't, I didn't. Yeah.
0:27:49.860 --> 0:28:0.90
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alright, alright, so historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that you're generation rebelled against the values of your parents.
0:28:1.390 --> 0:28:1.640
Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.
0:28:0.100 --> 0:28:9.700
Philippe Alain Paradis
Generation to what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize for a more just society and better world?
0:28:13.170 --> 0:28:15.380
Liz Palmer
Umm interesting question.
0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:23.140
Liz Palmer
I think we all felt the need to see it to get into a better world, for sure.
0:28:24.550 --> 0:28:30.150
Liz Palmer
Umm, we certainly felt that women were equal to anything a man did.
0:28:31.370 --> 0:28:31.990
Liz Palmer
Umm.
0:28:34.650 --> 0:28:41.450
Liz Palmer
There were probably guys I met that were stupid, but you know, they didn't last long in my world.
0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:45.870
Liz Palmer
I don't know.
0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.320
Liz Palmer
I most of the boyfriends I had were older.
0:28:50.610 --> 0:28:54.700
Liz Palmer
UM, at the time the like.
0:28:54.710 --> 0:28:55.360
Liz Palmer
It was interesting.
0:28:55.370 --> 0:29:1.590
Liz Palmer
The engineers in our building were big drinkers, Big partiers.
0:29:2.850 --> 0:29:10.180
Liz Palmer
I don't know if they're still the same I, but at the time that's the way they were the, you know, there was the football games and all that stuff.
0:29:10.190 --> 0:29:12.180
Liz Palmer
And they were always drunk or whatever.
0:29:12.570 --> 0:29:21.230
Liz Palmer
And they always sort of made stupid comments, but as we got to know them and they got to know us as people, it was that kind of disappeared.
0:29:21.550 --> 0:29:22.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
But humanize them.
0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:22.610
Liz Palmer
But that whole?
0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:24.310
Liz Palmer
Yeah, exactly.
0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:29.510
Liz Palmer
But you know at the beginning it was all this stupid stuff and we just told them to get stuffed.
0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:37.390
Liz Palmer
And I mean, it was just most of our friends most we did a lot of work with the with medicine.
0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:51.740
Liz Palmer
Like we took some of our courses with the medical students and as we got to know them really well, like the people in that like their first year medicine and stuff we did, we did some anatomy and Physiology classes over at the medical building.
0:29:51.750 --> 0:29:52.260
Liz Palmer
I don't know.
0:29:52.270 --> 0:30:2.930
Liz Palmer
I don't think they do that anymore, but I I don't know how it's set up, but we got to know those guys and there were a few women, but again, it was mainly men there as well.
0:30:3.630 --> 0:30:8.0
Liz Palmer
So and the and the nursing was all was all women and all female teachers.
0:30:8.10 --> 0:30:10.970
Liz Palmer
So yeah, I guess.
0:30:13.100 --> 0:30:13.780
Liz Palmer
I don't.
0:30:17.780 --> 0:30:18.0
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:30:15.10 --> 0:30:20.170
Liz Palmer
I don't remember being terribly conscious about it, but it was certainly something that we were aware of.
0:30:20.180 --> 0:30:20.910
Liz Palmer
Let's put it that way.
0:30:21.310 --> 0:30:21.600
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:30:22.330 --> 0:30:30.120
Philippe Alain Paradis
And to what extent did your generation believe that your parents, notions about gender, family and dating were outdated?
0:30:35.780 --> 0:30:37.690
Liz Palmer
Yeah, well, that was an interesting one.
0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:45.100
Liz Palmer
Umm my, I would go on a date in the first thing my mother would say is what is this father do and where does he go to church?
0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:47.390
Liz Palmer
And I said I have no clue.
0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:48.250
Liz Palmer
I could just.
0:30:48.820 --> 0:30:52.330
Liz Palmer
To me, that was that was the traditional role, right?
0:30:52.700 --> 0:30:58.390
Liz Palmer
I I remember at one point I was going out with a fellow for for quite a while and my mother was getting very insistent.
0:30:58.400 --> 0:30:59.870
Liz Palmer
I said, mom, I'm going to dinner.
0:30:59.880 --> 0:31:9.470
Liz Palmer
I'm not marrying the man and she was, like, totally blown away because if you were going out to someone, then the possibility was there that you're in it, married.
0:31:9.480 --> 0:31:10.450
Liz Palmer
And I said absolutely not.
0:31:10.810 --> 0:31:12.330
Liz Palmer
I mean, we're just going out for dinner.
0:31:12.340 --> 0:31:13.890
Liz Palmer
We're going to a movie.
0:31:13.900 --> 0:31:15.150
Liz Palmer
We're going to a concert.
0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:16.450
Liz Palmer
You know, whatever it is.
0:31:17.140 --> 0:31:29.570
Liz Palmer
So I I would say that yes, our our notions of dating and marriage and and as I mentioned, you know, some religious notions were were very much at odds with each other.
0:31:29.580 --> 0:31:36.720
Liz Palmer
But you had to respect your parents because they were older and they lived a different through a very different time than we did.
0:31:37.690 --> 0:31:42.440
Liz Palmer
Umm, but that didn't mean that I had to follow like as I said with the religious thing.
0:31:42.450 --> 0:31:47.40
Liz Palmer
And there were things I saw when I was working in the hospital.
0:31:47.50 --> 0:31:55.660
Liz Palmer
And you know things that happened to people as a result of stupid religious stuff like, you know, not being able to have an abortion or something and it.
0:31:55.670 --> 0:31:59.460
Liz Palmer
And as I said, that was I would never do that for myself.
0:32:3.800 --> 0:32:4.450
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:31:59.470 --> 0:32:4.990
Liz Palmer
But then I never got myself in that into that position either, so yeah.
0:32:4.900 --> 0:32:9.850
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, that's interesting, because that's a like the way that you see the situation of just going to the movies with someone.
0:32:9.860 --> 0:32:13.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
And the way that your parents look at it is so vastly different.
0:32:13.590 --> 0:32:14.60
Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah.
0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:17.740
Philippe Alain Paradis
It's like you're not like marriage is not a thing that like you're going to a movie.
0:32:16.540 --> 0:32:17.910
Liz Palmer
Yo, I got I.
0:32:18.340 --> 0:32:20.190
Liz Palmer
Yeah, and all the time.
0:32:20.380 --> 0:32:20.520
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:28.240
Liz Palmer
I mean, most of my friends during that time, we all, most of us married in in the end.
0:32:30.0 --> 0:32:32.990
Liz Palmer
But it wasn't till later and I actually got married.
0:32:33.0 --> 0:32:33.790
Liz Palmer
I met my husband.
0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:35.290
Liz Palmer
I graduated in June.
0:32:35.660 --> 0:32:47.130
Liz Palmer
I met my husband the following September and we got married the following June and most of my friends got married after that course and a couple got married.
0:32:47.190 --> 0:32:57.810
Liz Palmer
Just sort of at the end of that school year, those four years because it was just too hard to deal with marriage and living together and all that other kind of stuff.
0:32:58.700 --> 0:32:59.130
Liz Palmer
A lot.
0:32:59.140 --> 0:33:4.790
Liz Palmer
A number of people did live together with their boyfriends, but that again was later on.
0:33:6.390 --> 0:33:16.350
Liz Palmer
Ottawa was still a pretty small town in those days and we weren't big city people either, so there was a lot of it was still a little bit of that hanging on.
0:33:17.60 --> 0:33:17.400
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:25.30
Philippe Alain Paradis
And looking back at the 70s, what aspects of Canadian society do you see most out of whack and either fixing?
0:33:25.40 --> 0:33:28.270
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like what were you the most passionate about problems wise?
0:33:30.250 --> 0:33:32.160
Liz Palmer
Sorry, I don't really understand that question.
0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:39.80
Philippe Alain Paradis
I'm like for example like it could be like feminism or something like what in Canadian society back then.
0:33:41.930 --> 0:33:47.570
Philippe Alain Paradis
Did you feel like the strongest about that you felt needed changing like a societal thing?
0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:49.200
Liz Palmer
Oh, I see.
0:33:49.710 --> 0:33:49.950
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:33:51.340 --> 0:34:0.460
Liz Palmer
While religion was still very, very strong, had a big especially in a small town like like Ottawa was a small town a feminism.
0:34:3.90 --> 0:34:4.450
Liz Palmer
Was certainly talked about.
0:34:5.350 --> 0:34:11.610
Liz Palmer
I looked on with a great deal of hmm, you know, do we do?
0:34:11.620 --> 0:34:12.590
Liz Palmer
Do we want this or not?
0:34:15.820 --> 0:34:32.170
Liz Palmer
I I would think that religion really, when it comes down to it was it was still had a huge hold on and certainly in the early 70s had a huge hold on how people thought about their lives, about how they lived it, umm, how they brought up their children.
0:34:33.330 --> 0:34:37.300
Liz Palmer
Ah, what they would stand for and what they wouldn't so.
0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:45.670
Liz Palmer
Yeah, families at the war in Vietnam also was an issue because we had so many people.
0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:55.730
Liz Palmer
We we know there were a number of people that came up to Ontario and there were other people that I had met later on in the years that came up because of that. Umm.
0:34:58.130 --> 0:34:59.600
Liz Palmer
We didn't have a lot of money.
0:34:59.610 --> 0:35:1.0
Liz Palmer
Money was still a big issue.
0:35:1.10 --> 0:35:10.560
Liz Palmer
Money was still a really big class issue in those days too, so if you didn't have a lot of money, you didn't travel, you didn't have the fancy clothes.
0:35:10.570 --> 0:35:13.140
Liz Palmer
You didn't live in the fancy houses.
0:35:13.150 --> 0:35:21.620
Liz Palmer
You, you know, again, as I say, I came from a pretty working class neighborhood, but my parents, you know, they did everything for us kids.
0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:30.60
Liz Palmer
They they lived and so their children could do, I guess, could do better in their life, right?
0:35:29.260 --> 0:35:30.700
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm yeah.
0:35:32.370 --> 0:35:33.80
Liz Palmer
There wasn't.
0:35:33.90 --> 0:35:39.810
Liz Palmer
It's not like now when you know people have kids and they kind of let them go feral and do whatever they want.
0:35:41.150 --> 0:35:43.50
Liz Palmer
Your parents, you know, you came home.
0:35:43.60 --> 0:35:44.860
Liz Palmer
You had dinner every night together.
0:35:45.630 --> 0:35:49.80
Liz Palmer
Uh, and that's what I did with we did with our own children.
0:35:49.90 --> 0:35:50.660
Liz Palmer
Is that, you know, dinner was important.
0:35:50.670 --> 0:35:54.820
Liz Palmer
You had to come home, have dinner, unless you had a hockey practice or something like that.
0:35:55.330 --> 0:35:56.910
Liz Palmer
But family came first.
0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:2.0
Liz Palmer
Your work and then your schooling, etcetera came was ever.
0:36:3.470 --> 0:36:4.780
Philippe Alain Paradis
Is there one of those issues?
0:36:4.790 --> 0:36:6.840
Philippe Alain Paradis
It sounds like you mentioned religion a few times.
0:36:15.630 --> 0:36:15.840
Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.
0:36:6.850 --> 0:36:19.560
Philippe Alain Paradis
Is there one of those issues that like to at the time you were, like, frustrated about it like you like, like like you mentioned for example, like religion a few times like you saw someone at like in that, like clearly needed an abortion.
0:36:19.570 --> 0:36:23.410
Philippe Alain Paradis
So like that sounds like that like struck a chord with you a little bit like, yeah.
0:36:22.90 --> 0:36:23.980
Liz Palmer
Ohh definitely that was a it was.
0:36:23.990 --> 0:36:32.400
Liz Palmer
It was a very big deal for me and because my parents were such staunch Catholics, that became an issue in our family, between myself and my mom.
0:36:32.730 --> 0:36:40.650
Liz Palmer
My dad was pretty easy going because my excuse me, my dad was originally Lutheran but became Catholic.
0:36:40.660 --> 0:36:44.30
Liz Palmer
So he could marry my mother because she wouldn't marry him if he wasn't cast like so.
0:36:44.40 --> 0:36:51.20
Liz Palmer
That's how strong her religion was, and we were brought up very strictly in the Catholic faith and we didn't know any better.
0:36:51.30 --> 0:36:53.540
Liz Palmer
And we, you know, we actually had a very good life.
0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:55.150
Liz Palmer
Umm.
0:36:56.370 --> 0:36:58.290
Liz Palmer
And you know, very safe.
0:36:58.720 --> 0:37:2.630
Liz Palmer
Yeah, like I mean, you know, we were never in any danger.
0:37:2.640 --> 0:37:3.840
Liz Palmer
We always had enough food.
0:37:5.290 --> 0:37:14.920
Liz Palmer
I mean, when you look at what people are going through today, we actually even though we didn't have a lot, we were always you know, well looked after well fed and well loved.
0:37:15.720 --> 0:37:27.120
Liz Palmer
But as we got as my sister and I both got older and even my brothers, because they are quite a bit younger than we are, we all left the church behind, which was really interesting.
0:37:27.170 --> 0:37:28.20
Liz Palmer
None of us.
0:37:29.290 --> 0:37:32.970
Liz Palmer
Well, my kids, I took my kids to church.
0:37:32.980 --> 0:37:35.300
Liz Palmer
They went to Sunday school, but my husband's not Catholic.
0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.970
Liz Palmer
My mother in law just about died when she had to go to a Catholic Church.
0:37:39.980 --> 0:37:40.940
Liz Palmer
We got married.
0:37:40.950 --> 0:37:44.510
Liz Palmer
That was hard for her, but you know, it was those.
0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:45.850
Liz Palmer
So those religious things?
0:37:45.860 --> 0:37:48.580
Liz Palmer
Protestant, Catholic, whatever were very, very strong.
0:37:57.520 --> 0:37:57.810
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:37:51.190 --> 0:37:59.30
Liz Palmer
But I guess that that was probably the biggest, the biggest thing, I think until until we got older and things.
0:38:1.520 --> 0:38:2.240
Philippe Alain Paradis
Mellow down.
0:38:1.140 --> 0:38:2.770
Liz Palmer
Sort of resolved, but again my.
0:38:2.840 --> 0:38:4.340
Liz Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:38:5.0 --> 0:38:5.310
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:38:5.640 --> 0:38:9.270
Liz Palmer
And then the church changed in the 70s and the late in the 80s too.
0:38:9.280 --> 0:38:11.620
Liz Palmer
So that was a whole other big issue then.
0:38:13.460 --> 0:38:21.460
Philippe Alain Paradis
What did you see back then as the biggest form of injustice in Canadian society, like the things that you found the most unfair?
0:38:23.70 --> 0:38:23.480
Liz Palmer
Hmm.
0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:28.30
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:38:25.940 --> 0:38:30.850
Liz Palmer
In the at that time, probably women's rights. UM.
0:38:32.870 --> 0:38:39.370
Liz Palmer
There wasn't much I worked one summer up north in Moosonee.
0:38:39.380 --> 0:38:55.490
Liz Palmer
I worked at A and indigenous hospital at the time and that was the first time I really saw the differences between living, you know, as a white person living South and then going up to an area cause I worked the whole summer up there.
0:38:55.500 --> 0:38:56.330
Liz Palmer
I would take.
0:38:56.660 --> 0:39:4.330
Liz Palmer
I would take patients back up north to different we they fly them up north and the nurse would have to go with them.
0:39:4.340 --> 0:39:5.500
Liz Palmer
I was going as the nurse.
0:39:6.570 --> 0:39:12.270
Liz Palmer
That was the first time I really saw those types of injustice, and that was that was a huge deal at the time, I remember.
0:39:13.550 --> 0:39:16.70
Liz Palmer
Umm but.
0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:25.660
Liz Palmer
Probably I, you know, I wasn't terribly aware in those days of those things to be quite honest, it was.
0:39:25.390 --> 0:39:31.340
Philippe Alain Paradis
But it was clear that something had to had to be done about it, and it's.
0:39:30.490 --> 0:39:32.630
Liz Palmer
Yeah, the women's rights were a big deal.
0:39:36.670 --> 0:39:43.510
Liz Palmer
Medical medical advances that were available to some people and not to others available in some areas but not in others.
0:39:44.810 --> 0:39:55.180
Liz Palmer
There were, you know, when I was up north, there were women used to come quote unquote S to musani to Moose factory to have their babies.
0:39:55.190 --> 0:40:2.390
Liz Palmer
And there were a lot of babies born with very awful birth defects that most of them didn't live.
0:40:4.450 --> 0:40:10.820
Liz Palmer
So there was a lot of that that we saw and they're just because they lived in small places like small villages and stuff up north.
0:40:10.870 --> 0:40:11.910
Liz Palmer
He had to come that far.
0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:25.250
Liz Palmer
So, but you know, it was it was just a very different life, and that was the first exposure I got to, you know, women that would have 10 or 12 children and and with the child didn't live, they were OK with that because the kid was.
0:40:32.220 --> 0:40:32.450
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:40:25.260 --> 0:40:36.660
Liz Palmer
So I mean, there was no way the child could live because they were so badly are they had so many health issues that they wouldn't live outside of an incubator, right.
0:40:37.410 --> 0:40:37.880
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:40:37.260 --> 0:40:40.890
Liz Palmer
So those those children died within a few days, and the mother was sad.
0:40:40.900 --> 0:40:44.870
Liz Palmer
But it was an acceptance which you would never get here.
0:40:44.940 --> 0:40:45.640
Liz Palmer
Never get here.
0:40:45.380 --> 0:40:47.690
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, that sounds quite jarring to witness.
0:40:48.170 --> 0:40:50.70
Liz Palmer
Umm I was and and then.
0:40:47.700 --> 0:40:52.580
Philippe Alain Paradis
And that's yeah, like to see that that that was like normal sort of there was.
0:40:52.590 --> 0:40:53.280
Liz Palmer
Exactly.
0:40:53.490 --> 0:40:55.880
Liz Palmer
It was, yes, more normalized than it should have been.
0:40:56.750 --> 0:40:56.970
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:1.590
Liz Palmer
But then the children were born with birth defects that you wouldn't see here because of the inbreeding.
0:41:1.600 --> 0:41:2.250
Liz Palmer
That a lot of it.
0:41:2.300 --> 0:41:4.70
Liz Palmer
That's how it was explained to me at the time.
0:41:5.170 --> 0:41:10.680
Liz Palmer
But I think now it was also things like mercury in the water pesticide use.
0:41:10.720 --> 0:41:12.300
Liz Palmer
There's probably all that kind of stuff.
0:41:12.310 --> 0:41:14.800
Liz Palmer
That was all in there, but we didn't know about it in those times.
0:41:15.460 --> 0:41:15.690
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:41:15.700 --> 0:41:23.540
Philippe Alain Paradis
So you saw some pretty pretty like bad issues on the reservations that that's that that's quite a good example of injustice.
0:41:23.550 --> 0:41:25.160
Philippe Alain Paradis
That's that's tragic.
0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:30.810
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:41:24.790 --> 0:41:36.820
Liz Palmer
Well, that was the reserves were very also, you know you go up there, you land, there's a nursing station and the house where the doctor lived or the nurse lived at the social worker and the teachers lived.
0:41:36.830 --> 0:41:41.180
Liz Palmer
And then then there's where the actual people in the village live.
0:41:42.660 --> 0:41:42.870
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:41:41.270 --> 0:41:50.70
Liz Palmer
Very different and my husband will actually was a was a teacher for, I think two years in a northern community as well on the reserve.
0:41:50.80 --> 0:41:53.680
Liz Palmer
And you know, his stories were very similar to that as well.
0:41:56.880 --> 0:42:1.990
Philippe Alain Paradis
Did you feel that the political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens needs?
0:42:2.0 --> 0:42:4.310
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like when addressing any of the any of these issues at all.
0:42:5.900 --> 0:42:8.830
Liz Palmer
Ohh, probably not, but honestly I wasn't.
0:42:8.840 --> 0:42:11.200
Liz Palmer
I really wasn't into politics at that point.
0:42:11.180 --> 0:42:11.500
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:42:11.990 --> 0:42:18.350
Liz Palmer
I was my family was liberal and I used to work at different.
0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:19.30
Liz Palmer
I used to.
0:42:19.100 --> 0:42:19.420
Liz Palmer
I used to.
0:42:21.660 --> 0:42:25.700
Liz Palmer
Work at, you know, different times when they were elections and stuff.
0:42:26.620 --> 0:42:27.590
Liz Palmer
I was part of that.
0:42:27.740 --> 0:42:35.160
Liz Palmer
I used to go to meetings, political meetings and stuff like that, but it was never John Turner was who I worked for.
0:42:35.170 --> 0:42:41.280
Liz Palmer
I think when one year, but he lost out to Pierre Trudeau senior, so that was different.
0:42:41.690 --> 0:42:44.30
Liz Palmer
But anyway, so it was the again.
0:42:46.0 --> 0:42:47.670
Liz Palmer
Different times, you know.
0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:48.550
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:42:48.620 --> 0:42:52.850
Philippe Alain Paradis
Was there like an assumption that, like the government wasn't doing things correctly back then?
0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:53.930
Liz Palmer
Oh, no.
0:42:52.860 --> 0:42:54.800
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like when addressing these things, no.
0:42:56.840 --> 0:42:57.280
Philippe Alain Paradis
OK.
0:42:53.940 --> 0:42:58.680
Liz Palmer
No, no, no, no government could do no wrong in those days in our household anyway.
0:43:2.550 --> 0:43:20.280
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alright, so for the this next section, cultural historians have argued that introduction of the birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and dissemination of the free love ideology, change, gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s.
0:43:20.590 --> 0:43:22.70
Philippe Alain Paradis
Do you agree with that statement?
0:43:22.380 --> 0:43:25.470
Liz Palmer
Ohh, absolutely absolutely yes.
0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:32.420
Liz Palmer
Yes, with the pill you could do whatever you want and you didn't have to worry about getting pregnant, right?
0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:33.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:34.950
Philippe Alain Paradis
That must have been a huge change.
0:43:37.10 --> 0:43:38.870
Liz Palmer
Yes and no.
0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:39.120
Philippe Alain Paradis
Compared to.
0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:42.270
Liz Palmer
I mean it compared to before, probably, yeah.
0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:45.70
Liz Palmer
But the pill had always been available.
0:43:45.870 --> 0:43:50.120
Liz Palmer
I mean, even though I went to a Catholic girls school, we all knew about the pill.
0:43:50.130 --> 0:43:51.400
Liz Palmer
My mother was very good about.
0:43:53.940 --> 0:43:58.150
Liz Palmer
Uh, you know, teaching us the sex education schools didn't do it in those days.
0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:5.310
Liz Palmer
Like, I mean, your parents did it, but my parents were very open about things and they were very good about that.
0:44:5.320 --> 0:44:9.190
Liz Palmer
So we we knew about those things, but of course we were allowed to take it right.
0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:12.0
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:44:9.200 --> 0:44:13.460
Liz Palmer
And of course, there was no sex before marriage and all that other kind of stuff.
0:44:13.470 --> 0:44:15.120
Liz Palmer
But that all changed.
0:44:17.130 --> 0:44:20.790
Philippe Alain Paradis
And what did dating look like at Yowa during the 1970s?
0:44:22.890 --> 0:44:23.820
Liz Palmer
But how do you mean?
0:44:23.830 --> 0:44:26.400
Liz Palmer
Just ohh guys got.
0:44:23.500 --> 0:44:27.760
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm, I'm just like, yeah, very generally speaking.
0:44:28.110 --> 0:44:29.320
Liz Palmer
Oh, just guys.
0:44:29.330 --> 0:44:30.110
Liz Palmer
Ask girls out.
0:44:31.300 --> 0:44:31.980
Liz Palmer
Umm.
0:44:33.790 --> 0:44:35.320
Liz Palmer
You would go for coffee.
0:44:35.330 --> 0:44:37.700
Liz Palmer
There were the coffee go to movies.
0:44:43.270 --> 0:44:43.560
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:44:39.350 --> 0:44:44.660
Liz Palmer
Nobody had any money, so nobody really went out to dinner unless you went out with someone who was older.
0:44:45.110 --> 0:44:49.220
Liz Palmer
So you would go to concerts, you'd go to movies, you'd go to parties together.
0:44:49.670 --> 0:44:50.720
Liz Palmer
You know, that kind of thing?
0:44:51.890 --> 0:44:52.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Just.
0:44:50.810 --> 0:44:53.200
Liz Palmer
Yeah, pretty normal stuff, yeah.
0:44:53.990 --> 0:44:54.300
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:44:54.310 --> 0:44:54.830
Philippe Alain Paradis
That reminds me.
0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:55.970
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like what you were saying earlier?
0:44:58.300 --> 0:44:59.180
Liz Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
0:44:55.980 --> 0:44:59.620
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like you do a lot of really casual things and just like normal.
0:45:0.980 --> 0:45:1.220
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:44:59.720 --> 0:45:3.340
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hang out and yeah, and then your parents had their views on it.
0:45:5.170 --> 0:45:5.740
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:45:4.640 --> 0:45:6.590
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, yeah.
0:45:5.790 --> 0:45:6.840
Liz Palmer
What is this father do?
0:45:6.850 --> 0:45:7.860
Liz Palmer
And where does he go to church?
0:45:7.960 --> 0:45:9.240
Liz Palmer
I've no clue.
0:45:8.870 --> 0:45:9.920
Philippe Alain Paradis
I haven't even met him.
0:45:9.250 --> 0:45:10.20
Liz Palmer
I don't know.
0:45:9.970 --> 0:45:10.620
Philippe Alain Paradis
I don't know his name.
0:45:10.230 --> 0:45:13.870
Liz Palmer
I will he be live in Montreal?
0:45:14.20 --> 0:45:15.850
Liz Palmer
Because a lot of people came to Ottawa.
0:45:15.860 --> 0:45:17.950
Liz Palmer
You from a lot of different places, right?
0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:18.330
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:31.120
Liz Palmer
So because they had programs there that didn't have any other places, so there were lots of and and the other thing too is that it was thought that was the easy to get into Ottawa because they always were looking for students.
0:45:32.20 --> 0:45:32.230
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:45:32.90 --> 0:45:37.310
Liz Palmer
But then of course, my sister went to Saint Paths, which was a separate college.
0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:39.300
Liz Palmer
But then became part of Carlton.
0:45:40.90 --> 0:45:47.90
Liz Palmer
But then, of course, he always disparage Carlton because they were just the, you know, anybody could get into Carlton.
0:45:49.540 --> 0:45:50.500
Liz Palmer
So yes.
0:45:50.190 --> 0:45:50.650
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:45:50.690 --> 0:45:59.180
Philippe Alain Paradis
And was it ever look down on, like just dating casually, like amongst just just the younger people, just the uottawa?
0:45:59.710 --> 0:46:1.150
Philippe Alain Paradis
Or was it just totally normal?
0:46:1.900 --> 0:46:4.30
Liz Palmer
Ohh it's not you mean what do you mean dating?
0:46:7.880 --> 0:46:8.120
Liz Palmer
Ohh.
0:46:4.630 --> 0:46:8.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like, yeah, like some parents might not approve of, like their kids going around and dating it.
0:46:8.480 --> 0:46:8.860
Philippe Alain Paradis
You Ottawa.
0:46:8.870 --> 0:46:10.320
Philippe Alain Paradis
But amongst students, was it.
0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:11.390
Liz Palmer
Oh, it's not.
0:46:10.330 --> 0:46:12.560
Philippe Alain Paradis
Was it frowned upon at all? No.
0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:12.930
Liz Palmer
No, no, not at all.
0:46:12.940 --> 0:46:13.680
Liz Palmer
Day dating was.
0:46:14.730 --> 0:46:16.360
Liz Palmer
Well, that's how you got to meet people, right?
0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:18.80
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right, right.
0:46:18.170 --> 0:46:19.490
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like just relationships and stuff.
0:46:19.500 --> 0:46:21.160
Philippe Alain Paradis
That was just it was just normal.
0:46:21.720 --> 0:46:22.450
Liz Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:46:29.550 --> 0:46:29.770
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:46:22.460 --> 0:46:31.760
Liz Palmer
I mean, I think my sister in law put it when you went to university to to earn your Mrs right and your misses like to find your husband, right?
0:46:31.770 --> 0:46:32.300
Liz Palmer
Your Mrs?
0:46:32.270 --> 0:46:33.770
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right, right. Yeah.
0:46:41.380 --> 0:46:41.740
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:46:33.670 --> 0:46:44.670
Liz Palmer
Well, that's, I guess that was kind of what it was like, but I mean, no, everybody just dated and and sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't, you know.
0:46:47.20 --> 0:46:49.610
Philippe Alain Paradis
How did your generation look at family and marriage?
0:46:49.620 --> 0:46:50.530
Philippe Alain Paradis
Was there any like?
0:46:50.820 --> 0:46:56.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
Did they ever really like challenge those notions or discuss it or yeah.
0:46:55.680 --> 0:47:4.850
Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah, I think a lot of younger women because of the pill and because of the changing morays of the time.
0:47:4.860 --> 0:47:12.950
Liz Palmer
You could you could have a relationship with someone you could move in, but you didn't have to get married, and that was a huge deal for a lot of girls.
0:47:13.20 --> 0:47:15.880
Liz Palmer
And a lot of women guys, of course, were happy with that.
0:47:18.350 --> 0:47:18.530
Liz Palmer
But.
0:47:21.460 --> 0:47:28.630
Liz Palmer
I think in the end they're probably more after we graduated that happened, I would find.
0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:33.580
Liz Palmer
But because when we were at school, nobody, as I said, nobody had any money like so.
0:47:33.590 --> 0:47:37.150
Liz Palmer
Certainly my friends in my class, most people didn't have a lot of money.
0:47:37.460 --> 0:47:45.150
Liz Palmer
So, you know, we were living at home or we were, you know, living on campus or you were living in an apartment with two or three other people.
0:47:45.160 --> 0:47:48.600
Liz Palmer
So you were scrimping and saving, so it was.
0:47:50.700 --> 0:47:51.990
Liz Palmer
It was kind of different.
0:47:54.660 --> 0:48:2.310
Liz Palmer
So yeah, I guess the the fact that you didn't have to get married anymore was the that that was a huge deal.
0:48:3.70 --> 0:48:3.290
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:48:2.960 --> 0:48:5.680
Liz Palmer
That was a huge deal at the time and I think that made a difference.
0:48:6.600 --> 0:48:9.880
Liz Palmer
Umm, because you didn't really need to.
0:48:12.820 --> 0:48:20.220
Liz Palmer
Uh, you didn't really need to worry about getting married, cause all of a sudden you didn't really need to get married.
0:48:21.550 --> 0:48:26.350
Liz Palmer
But still, having kids without a partner, I always felt was very difficult cause.
0:48:28.390 --> 0:48:29.370
Liz Palmer
Kids are a lot of work.
0:48:30.270 --> 0:48:30.650
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, yeah.
0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:33.360
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:48:32.490 --> 0:48:36.690
Liz Palmer
I take a lot out of the you need two people to do that or or a village to raise a child, yes.
0:48:35.260 --> 0:48:38.70
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, for sure. Right.
0:48:38.300 --> 0:48:41.930
Philippe Alain Paradis
So like just the notion of like, do you like having to get married and stuff?
0:48:41.940 --> 0:48:46.730
Philippe Alain Paradis
It was looked at like more practically, if at times by younger people, yeah.
0:48:45.750 --> 0:48:47.170
Liz Palmer
Yeah, it was it.
0:48:47.210 --> 0:48:49.660
Liz Palmer
There was no notion of having to get married anymore.
0:48:49.470 --> 0:48:49.680
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:48:49.670 --> 0:48:50.280
Liz Palmer
You got married.
0:48:50.290 --> 0:48:54.110
Liz Palmer
If you wanted to, and if you wanted, if you wanted to, that was great.
0:48:56.370 --> 0:48:56.570
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:57.380
Liz Palmer
But if you didn't want to, you didn't have to, which was fine too, yeah.
0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:57.690
Philippe Alain Paradis
No.
0:48:58.610 --> 0:48:59.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:48:59.670 --> 0:49:15.910
Philippe Alain Paradis
And just before I move on to the last section, do you like, do you think that like just regarding all of these things and and just general attitudes, behavior and stuff on campus, do you think like movies and music and stuff influence like people's behavior a lot?
0:49:15.920 --> 0:49:18.800
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like maybe like rock becoming popular a little later.
0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:20.870
Liz Palmer
Ohh.
0:49:18.810 --> 0:49:25.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
And did you ever see like the impact of like media on people and their behavior on campus at all?
0:49:26.670 --> 0:49:27.580
Philippe Alain Paradis
It's gonna make but.
0:49:33.390 --> 0:49:33.660
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:49:30.330 --> 0:49:34.120
Liz Palmer
Yes, music in particular, music.
0:49:34.130 --> 0:49:34.940
Liz Palmer
Governed.
0:49:35.110 --> 0:49:35.320
Liz Palmer
Who?
0:49:35.330 --> 0:49:37.400
Liz Palmer
Your friends were where you went.
0:49:37.460 --> 0:49:44.370
Liz Palmer
The concerts you went to, the books you read, the group she belonged to. Uh.
0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:53.270
Liz Palmer
Disco was part of it, but then I was far more at.
0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:56.670
Liz Palmer
At one point I was far more into umm.
0:49:58.620 --> 0:50:0.420
Liz Palmer
It's sort of the coffee house scene.
0:50:1.90 --> 0:50:1.990
Liz Palmer
Umm.
0:50:2.910 --> 0:50:10.620
Liz Palmer
And all those, all that kind of sort of stuff, we were far more hip than the people that went to do disco.
0:50:12.470 --> 0:50:14.190
Liz Palmer
We thought we were like, put it that way.
0:50:15.940 --> 0:50:17.190
Liz Palmer
We were that we were smarter.
0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:20.910
Liz Palmer
You know, we've always thought we were better than the rest, but I mean, we were just stupid.
0:50:21.300 --> 0:50:23.860
Liz Palmer
But umm, it was.
0:50:25.540 --> 0:50:32.540
Liz Palmer
I think it really led into how you lived, who, where you went, who your friends were.
0:50:40.670 --> 0:50:41.30
Philippe Alain Paradis
Wow.
0:50:33.830 --> 0:50:42.910
Liz Palmer
As I said, the books you read the the opinions you held and who and in the end who you ended up voting for too, it was, you know, so it it.
0:50:42.980 --> 0:50:43.330
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:50:43.340 --> 0:51:8.20
Liz Palmer
Because you know, if it was, it's as I got older, I got more and more into the into the political stuff because you you always, you know, sort of became aware as time went on as of how who you voted for in the election would affect how much money was going to education or healthcare or you know the what was going into you know whatever was affecting the world at that time but umm.
0:51:10.90 --> 0:51:14.360
Liz Palmer
Yeah, I think I think there was certainly a correlation in there for sure.
0:51:14.580 --> 0:51:20.480
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, that that's interesting because you named basically every facet of like what makes someone and like an individual, right?
0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:20.860
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:23.540
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:51:20.490 --> 0:51:28.40
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like their opinions, they're the people they hung around with that then all of that, like music, had a pardon. Hmm.
0:51:25.750 --> 0:51:40.0
Liz Palmer
And and movies were a big thing, too, because we got very snotty about about watching French films, and I'm I learned, I I I started to smoke when I was at university, cause everybody smoked and it ought to be you.
0:51:40.10 --> 0:51:40.490
Liz Palmer
You smoke?
0:51:40.500 --> 0:51:42.180
Liz Palmer
God was in Japan, right?
0:51:42.190 --> 0:51:43.220
Liz Palmer
The French cigarettes.
0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:44.70
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:47.960
Liz Palmer
So anything French became very ohkura very.
0:51:51.220 --> 0:51:54.850
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right trends and stuff, but that could all that. Mm-hmm.
0:51:49.910 --> 0:51:55.420
Liz Palmer
In very if you want trend trend, yes, trendy.
0:51:55.490 --> 0:51:59.320
Liz Palmer
And if you wanted to be, quote unquote, one of the cool kids, this is what you did.
0:51:59.330 --> 0:52:1.860
Liz Palmer
So you wore certain clothing you.
0:52:3.900 --> 0:52:6.810
Liz Palmer
You went to certain places, you went to certain clubs, you.
0:52:7.670 --> 0:52:10.700
Liz Palmer
Uh, you spoke French or you didn't?
0:52:10.710 --> 0:52:12.840
Liz Palmer
Or or you pretended you did.
0:52:12.850 --> 0:52:18.640
Liz Palmer
Or, you know, whatever it it did affect your it did affect your life at one point.
0:52:19.420 --> 0:52:19.650
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:52:19.250 --> 0:52:21.770
Liz Palmer
So yeah, I would say definitely.
0:52:21.780 --> 0:52:26.670
Liz Palmer
And and movies from the states, I mean, you had you had Deer Hunter you had.
0:52:28.350 --> 0:52:28.970
Liz Palmer
Taxi.
0:52:33.820 --> 0:52:34.150
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:52:28.980 --> 0:52:37.40
Liz Palmer
You had all those other movies that came in to being at like I Love films, so that was something that I really like to to to do.
0:52:37.490 --> 0:52:41.620
Liz Palmer
But in a place like Ottawa, there weren't a lot of, you know.
0:52:43.430 --> 0:52:46.860
Liz Palmer
Films that came out that that were anything.
0:52:46.930 --> 0:52:48.450
Liz Palmer
The what was it the?
0:52:51.70 --> 0:52:57.210
Liz Palmer
And I forget that the theater on Queen Street Bank and Queen forget.
0:52:57.220 --> 0:52:58.300
Liz Palmer
I think it was called the realtor.
0:52:58.370 --> 0:52:59.210
Liz Palmer
No, it wasn't that.
0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:1.50
Liz Palmer
Forget what it was called anyway.
0:53:1.660 --> 0:53:4.30
Liz Palmer
They would have foreign films come in.
0:53:4.40 --> 0:53:8.760
Liz Palmer
So you'd have foreign film festivals or you go to Montreal to see movies and stuff like that too.
0:53:9.920 --> 0:53:10.570
Philippe Alain Paradis
Interesting.
0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:14.20
Philippe Alain Paradis
So this final section is totally optional.
0:53:14.580 --> 0:53:21.590
Philippe Alain Paradis
There's a disclaimer that comes with it because it it's a it's a very, very sensitive topic, so if I'll read this claimer and you just have to say yes or no.
0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:25.300
Philippe Alain Paradis
And if you say no, I won't ask any questions and that'll be it for the interview.
0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:26.160
Liz Palmer
Umm.
0:53:26.80 --> 0:53:32.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm, OK, so this glimmer is the following section is optional and concerns sexuality and harassment.
0:53:32.580 --> 0:53:39.90
Philippe Alain Paradis
We appreciate that not everyone will feel comfortable with these questions and we want to reiterate that your participation is entirely voluntary.
0:53:39.300 --> 0:53:43.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
You may choose to not answer questions that make you feel uncomfortable or skip this section entirely.
0:53:45.170 --> 0:53:47.650
Liz Palmer
I'm fine with that. Yep.
0:53:46.800 --> 0:53:53.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
OK, so many universities today have been, uh, forced to police sexual harassment.
0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:58.640
Philippe Alain Paradis
To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe?
0:54:1.450 --> 0:54:2.530
Liz Palmer
I don't think they did anything.
0:54:4.980 --> 0:54:5.500
Liz Palmer
Why would they?
0:54:6.650 --> 0:54:8.960
Philippe Alain Paradis
Did did you see it as much of an issue back then?
0:54:8.970 --> 0:54:12.130
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like, were there rumors circulating or like, people getting caught?
0:54:12.500 --> 0:54:12.850
Philippe Alain Paradis
No.
0:54:12.730 --> 0:54:13.610
Liz Palmer
No, no.
0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:17.860
Philippe Alain Paradis
So it must have been like pretty like hush hush if yeah.
0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:19.680
Liz Palmer
If it happened, we didn't hear about it.
0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:21.70
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm wow.
0:54:20.500 --> 0:54:21.780
Liz Palmer
Let's put it that way, yeah.
0:54:21.80 --> 0:54:26.890
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah, because I like I have seen stats and so I was like, I have seen people seen stats and stuff and it seems that it was it was quite it.
0:54:26.900 --> 0:54:29.480
Philippe Alain Paradis
It turns out like now we know that it was quite prevalent.
0:54:29.490 --> 0:54:33.310
Philippe Alain Paradis
So it's interesting to hear that it was kept like you know.
0:54:35.920 --> 0:54:36.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:54:32.930 --> 0:54:38.270
Liz Palmer
I think you have to look at the times from the perspective of the times.
0:54:39.770 --> 0:54:43.520
Liz Palmer
Nowadays, women get all upset because the guy whistles at them on the street.
0:54:44.10 --> 0:54:44.270
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:54:45.340 --> 0:54:46.650
Liz Palmer
No big deal in my day.
0:54:47.240 --> 0:54:47.820
Liz Palmer
So what?
0:54:48.430 --> 0:54:49.70
Philippe Alain Paradis
If you.
0:54:48.260 --> 0:54:50.510
Liz Palmer
So good, I appreciate what you looked like.
0:54:50.990 --> 0:54:51.290
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:54:50.580 --> 0:54:54.970
Liz Palmer
Nowadays someone will go hearing off to the police saying, Oh my God, he whistled at me.
0:54:56.530 --> 0:54:56.880
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
0:54:56.310 --> 0:54:58.690
Liz Palmer
That's harassment in some women's.
0:55:0.560 --> 0:55:4.490
Liz Palmer
You know and and fair enough if they feel harassed and that then that's it.
0:55:4.840 --> 0:55:6.440
Liz Palmer
But in our day, that was not a deal.
0:55:7.220 --> 0:55:9.790
Philippe Alain Paradis
If you applied, I'll put A twist on the question.
0:55:9.990 --> 0:55:10.210
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
0:55:16.90 --> 0:55:18.100
Liz Palmer
Oh yeah, they're probably was there.
0:55:18.230 --> 0:55:19.80
Liz Palmer
It was there.
0:55:9.960 --> 0:55:19.590
Philippe Alain Paradis
If you apply just just for fun, if you applied today's standards of sexual harassment, what would it would have been bad, yeah.
0:55:22.300 --> 0:55:22.570
Philippe Alain Paradis
And.
0:55:19.150 --> 0:55:28.20
Liz Palmer
I would I remember being on the bus and a man sitting really close to me like and pushing me like coming right close to me.
0:55:28.110 --> 0:55:30.130
Liz Palmer
That's harassment as far as I'm concerned.
0:55:30.590 --> 0:55:34.900
Liz Palmer
I got up, stepped on his foot, got off the bus.
0:55:36.390 --> 0:55:38.730
Liz Palmer
So never reported it.
0:55:39.850 --> 0:55:41.700
Liz Palmer
That happened all the time.
0:55:42.370 --> 0:55:42.660
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:55:41.950 --> 0:55:43.390
Liz Palmer
If you were young woman, yeah.
0:55:44.940 --> 0:55:45.210
Liz Palmer
I'm.
0:55:45.220 --> 0:55:46.770
Liz Palmer
I'm not gonna say all the time, but it happened.
0:55:47.190 --> 0:55:47.390
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:55:46.780 --> 0:55:48.330
Liz Palmer
It happened a lot.
0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:52.980
Liz Palmer
There were, but As for me, I was never.
0:55:56.170 --> 0:56:0.550
Liz Palmer
I was never a victim of that type of harassment.
0:56:0.560 --> 0:56:1.430
Liz Palmer
Let's put it that way.
0:56:1.440 --> 0:56:5.470
Liz Palmer
Like anything that that these days, women would complain about.
0:56:5.480 --> 0:56:9.920
Liz Palmer
I mean, yeah, some guy would punch your pinch your bottom or something.
0:56:12.420 --> 0:56:13.370
Liz Palmer
So no big deal.
0:56:14.170 --> 0:56:14.620
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:56:13.780 --> 0:56:18.830
Liz Palmer
I mean, that's just, that's just what happened and that's how it was thought of in those days.
0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:19.970
Liz Palmer
Nowadays it's not.
0:56:19.980 --> 0:56:20.730
Liz Palmer
It's different.
0:56:20.860 --> 0:56:21.180
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:56:20.880 --> 0:56:27.870
Liz Palmer
My daughter, would you know, she she would probably, Umm, report somebody who did that.
0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:31.350
Liz Palmer
But in my day it was part of the culture.
0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:33.950
Liz Palmer
If you can put it that way, I mean, I'm not saying it's right.
0:56:32.300 --> 0:56:34.740
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm it, yeah.
0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:36.880
Liz Palmer
I'm just saying that that's that's the way it was.
0:56:36.890 --> 0:56:41.560
Liz Palmer
That's that's what guys did and I grew up in working class neighborhoods.
0:56:42.770 --> 0:56:44.250
Philippe Alain Paradis
There's normalized totally.
0:56:41.570 --> 0:56:45.670
Liz Palmer
So there was it was exactly.
0:56:47.570 --> 0:56:47.940
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:56:45.740 --> 0:56:48.500
Liz Palmer
That's a very good way to put it was normalized, so yeah.
0:56:47.950 --> 0:56:50.200
Philippe Alain Paradis
So it wasn't even viewed as a problem that needed fixing.
0:56:50.210 --> 0:56:52.480
Philippe Alain Paradis
It was just how? Wow.
0:56:52.30 --> 0:56:54.300
Liz Palmer
It's just the way some men are stupid.
0:56:54.770 --> 0:56:55.660
Liz Palmer
That's the way they are.
0:56:55.830 --> 0:56:56.440
Liz Palmer
You didn't.
0:56:56.450 --> 0:57:2.600
Liz Palmer
You didn't have anything to do with those guys, but you know my my mom used to make it very clear.
0:57:2.610 --> 0:57:3.440
Liz Palmer
You just ignore it.
0:57:3.570 --> 0:57:4.290
Liz Palmer
You just ignore it.
0:57:5.350 --> 0:57:5.800
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:57:6.60 --> 0:57:6.300
Liz Palmer
OK.
0:57:5.930 --> 0:57:11.580
Philippe Alain Paradis
And our yeah, our generation is interested in a like in a free love movement.
0:57:11.670 --> 0:57:17.380
Philippe Alain Paradis
What was the perception of premarital sex on the University of Ottawa campus in the 1970s?
0:57:17.390 --> 0:57:21.640
Philippe Alain Paradis
Was it viewed negatively accepted or like literally encouraged?
0:57:21.650 --> 0:57:23.560
Philippe Alain Paradis
Or like amongst the.
0:57:22.730 --> 0:57:23.700
Liz Palmer
Was accepted.
0:57:24.50 --> 0:57:24.940
Liz Palmer
It was accepted.
0:57:24.950 --> 0:57:29.0
Liz Palmer
I meet most of the girls in in my class had boyfriends and.
0:57:31.230 --> 0:57:31.470
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:57:31.170 --> 0:57:32.480
Liz Palmer
They all went to bed together.
0:57:32.490 --> 0:57:33.40
Liz Palmer
I mean, it was.
0:57:34.550 --> 0:57:34.760
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:57:33.50 --> 0:57:35.260
Liz Palmer
No, it was accepted.
0:57:35.270 --> 0:57:35.600
Liz Palmer
It was.
0:57:35.610 --> 0:57:38.680
Liz Palmer
It was your choice if you wanted to, umm.
0:57:42.890 --> 0:57:43.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:57:39.330 --> 0:57:50.660
Liz Palmer
As it as of whether they were pressured, I don't know what was never brought up as as an issue like I never knew anybody who was upset by the fact that some guy had pressured.
0:57:50.710 --> 0:57:52.840
Liz Palmer
I mean, there were guys that were stupid enough to.
0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:53.870
Philippe Alain Paradis
Umm.
0:57:54.830 --> 0:57:56.720
Liz Palmer
Think that you know you didn't talk to each other.
0:57:56.730 --> 0:57:57.420
Liz Palmer
There was one guy.
0:57:58.810 --> 0:58:1.370
Liz Palmer
He was in law and he was a football player.
0:58:2.410 --> 0:58:7.520
Liz Palmer
He was going out with a girl in my class and he called me up and asked me out on a date and I said ohh great and I.
0:58:7.530 --> 0:58:9.420
Liz Palmer
But aren't you going out with so and so's?
0:58:9.430 --> 0:58:11.340
Liz Palmer
Ohh no, no, no, no, that's all over.
0:58:12.870 --> 0:58:12.990
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:58:11.690 --> 0:58:18.330
Liz Palmer
So I find out later because no one's talking to me in my class, that she found out that he was going out.
0:58:18.340 --> 0:58:22.810
Liz Palmer
He went out with me and I said, well, he told me that you two would split up.
0:58:22.890 --> 0:58:23.550
Liz Palmer
We haven't.
0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:24.710
Liz Palmer
I didn't know that.
0:58:25.180 --> 0:58:28.590
Liz Palmer
Well, that was the end of that from both sides.
0:58:29.300 --> 0:58:38.250
Liz Palmer
But I mean so there was always that kind of stuff that was going on, but he was a I mean we only ever got to the point of going out for a meal or something.
0:58:38.260 --> 0:58:42.270
Liz Palmer
And then I'm sure he he wanted to take a further, but there was no.
0:58:43.880 --> 0:58:45.370
Liz Palmer
But then my friend found out.
0:58:46.940 --> 0:58:47.140
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:58:45.380 --> 0:58:48.750
Liz Palmer
And then, of course, then the whole class just turned on him, and that was that.
0:58:48.820 --> 0:58:49.590
Liz Palmer
But I mean there.
0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:50.860
Liz Palmer
So that kind of thing happened.
0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:54.20
Liz Palmer
But that's just the kind of thing that happened to me.
0:58:59.100 --> 0:59:0.240
Philippe Alain Paradis
That was your experience.
0:59:0.250 --> 0:59:0.390
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
0:58:54.30 --> 0:59:1.50
Liz Palmer
There might have been other things that happened to other women, but I don't know of any of them. Yeah.
0:59:1.70 --> 0:59:8.30
Philippe Alain Paradis
And and just casual relationships like that, like they there was, there wasn't much judgment going around regarding that type of thing.
0:59:8.310 --> 0:59:9.40
Liz Palmer
Oh no mate.
0:59:8.440 --> 0:59:13.810
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like if a woman went with a lot of guys like it wasn't as or, you know, not not to your knowledge.
0:59:13.130 --> 0:59:15.91
Liz Palmer
Well, I have to say I i.e.
0:59:15.870 --> 0:59:20.380
Liz Palmer
My sister was going out with somebody and their first boyfriend.
0:59:20.390 --> 0:59:21.660
Liz Palmer
She's still married to him.
0:59:21.750 --> 0:59:22.890
Liz Palmer
50 some odd years later.
0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:30.160
Liz Palmer
And he used to say to me, well, you know, you should get a boyfriend.
0:59:30.170 --> 0:59:31.860
Liz Palmer
And I said, well, why would I want a boyfriend?
0:59:31.870 --> 0:59:33.340
Liz Palmer
I'm meeting all these nice men.
0:59:34.310 --> 0:59:36.970
Liz Palmer
We're going out to concerts and I mean nothing ever happened.
0:59:37.810 --> 0:59:39.660
Liz Palmer
Uh, but I just didn't find.
0:59:43.830 --> 0:59:44.90
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right.
0:59:39.670 --> 0:59:45.300
Liz Palmer
You know, there was just nobody I wanted to spend a whole lot of time with at that point, and that was so, so.
0:59:45.310 --> 0:59:49.740
Liz Palmer
But he would, you know, that was from his perspective is that you should have one guy and only go up with one guy.
0:59:49.750 --> 0:59:53.580
Liz Palmer
Well, I didn't feel that necessity and I didn't hadn't met the right person.
0:59:53.590 --> 0:59:55.840
Liz Palmer
So, so that was different so.
0:59:59.130 --> 1:0:3.300
Liz Palmer
But most of the most of my good friends, we all dated lots of different people.
1:0:3.670 --> 1:0:5.860
Liz Palmer
We didn't sleep with them, but we dated them.
1:0:6.390 --> 1:0:6.610
Philippe Alain Paradis
Mm-hmm.
1:0:6.30 --> 1:0:8.440
Liz Palmer
Some of them may have slept with them, but I, you know, I didn't.
1:0:9.300 --> 1:0:9.540
Philippe Alain Paradis
Mm-hmm.
1:0:9.590 --> 1:0:10.820
Liz Palmer
So that was just me.
1:0:10.870 --> 1:0:14.680
Liz Palmer
But then the other thing is is I lived at home, so there was no.
1:0:14.810 --> 1:0:18.380
Liz Palmer
That was another big, huge problem for a lot of guys, too.
1:0:19.220 --> 1:0:20.270
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right, right.
1:0:20.990 --> 1:0:25.770
Philippe Alain Paradis
And I imagine what did members of your parents generation to worry about premarital sex a lot.
1:0:26.180 --> 1:0:26.400
Philippe Alain Paradis
Ohh.
1:0:26.110 --> 1:0:27.980
Liz Palmer
Ohh yeah, they were terrified of it.
1:0:26.410 --> 1:0:28.900
Philippe Alain Paradis
Like. Yeah. Yeah.
1:0:28.30 --> 1:0:29.360
Liz Palmer
Absolutely terrified of it, yes.
1:0:31.30 --> 1:0:31.680
Philippe Alain Paradis
Yeah.
1:0:31.730 --> 1:0:35.720
Philippe Alain Paradis
So like, it sounds like amongst the younger people, it just wasn't much of a thought.
1:0:40.920 --> 1:0:42.170
Liz Palmer
Most of, yeah.
1:0:35.730 --> 1:0:42.860
Philippe Alain Paradis
It was just normal and OK and but the older crowd that was it was like not there was tension there probably. Umm.
1:0:42.260 --> 1:0:47.290
Liz Palmer
Most of our parents felt that it was, you know, premarital sex was just not cause.
1:0:47.360 --> 1:0:53.330
Liz Palmer
Most of my friends were Catholic or came from religious or Protestant Jewish families.
1:0:53.750 --> 1:0:56.420
Liz Palmer
So you didn't even talk about premarital sex.
1:0:56.430 --> 1:1:5.560
Liz Palmer
But but in our generation like that, I mean, I know there were girls that that slept around, but it was no big deal.
1:1:5.570 --> 1:1:6.780
Liz Palmer
Like, I mean it wasn't.
1:1:9.330 --> 1:1:9.700
Philippe Alain Paradis
Hmm.
1:1:7.470 --> 1:1:10.460
Liz Palmer
We didn't look down on them or think any less of them.
1:1:10.470 --> 1:1:11.520
Liz Palmer
I mean, that was their choice.
1:1:12.900 --> 1:1:13.330
Philippe Alain Paradis
Interesting.
1:1:12.550 --> 1:1:18.440
Liz Palmer
But that was also part of the feminist movement at the time, because that was your choice to sleep with whomever you wanted.
1:1:19.550 --> 1:1:20.410
Philippe Alain Paradis
Right, right.
1:1:20.360 --> 1:1:20.520
Liz Palmer
Yeah.
1:1:20.420 --> 1:1:22.820
Philippe Alain Paradis
So yeah, alright, I've done.
1:1:22.830 --> 1:1:24.110
Philippe Alain Paradis
That's every question.
1:1:24.120 --> 1:1:25.660
Philippe Alain Paradis
I'll I'll stop the recording real quick.
1:1:26.160 --> 1:1:26.360
Liz Palmer
Mm-hmm.

0:0:13.260 --> 0:0:28.940
Philippe Alain Paradis
Pour la première question, les historiens de la culture ont soutenu que la télévision, Hollywood, la musique populaire et la culture de consommation autour de l'automobile ont créé une culture populaire nord-américaine plus intégrée.
0:0:30.50 --> 0:0:37.920
Philippe Alain Paradis
Ottawa a une institution bilingue et nous voulons mieux comprendre comment les anglophones et les francophones se sont rapprochés.
0:0:39.50 --> 0:0:44.50
Philippe Alain Paradis
Donc la première question serait qu'il y avait moins d'électronique au Canada dans les années 70.
0:0:45.700 --> 0:0:46.220
Liz Palmer
Pas du tout.
0:0:48.410 --> 0:0:53.390
Philippe Alain Paradis
Alors, comment était structuré votre temps libre ou que faisaient les étudiants d'Ottawa pour s'amuser dans les années 70 ?
0:1:1.570 --> 0:1:4.120
Liz Palmer
Eh bien, nous allions au pub après l'école.
0:1:4.130 --> 0:1:6.950
Liz Palmer
Je suis sûre que c'est encore le cas aujourd'hui, mais il y avait...
0:1:14.60 --> 0:1:15.870
Liz Palmer
On allait voir mon père, on riait.
0:1:15.880 --> 0:1:21.130
Liz Palmer
Nous allions à la bibliothèque tous les soirs et après la fermeture de la bibliothèque, parce que j'étudiais les soins infirmiers.
0:1:21.140 --> 0:1:27.210
Liz Palmer
Nous allions donc à la bibliothèque médicale, puis à l'Albion, qui n'existe plus, je crois.
0:1:27.220 --> 0:1:30.830
Liz Palmer
Il n'existe plus et nous y allions probablement presque tous les soirs.
0:1:31.120 --> 0:1:32.750
Liz Palmer
Il y avait des danses.
0:1:34.100 --> 0:1:37.320
Liz Palmer
Nous avons dirigé l'école d'infirmières.
0:1:38.910 --> 0:1:43.1