Wilkinson, Dave (Interview)

Dublin Core

Title

Wilkinson, Dave (Interview)

Subject

Testimonial about Western University in London, Ontario during the 1970s, discussing popular culture, the female experience, ideology and generational differences, and sexuality and harassment.

Description

2023-11-1

Relation


"Interview with Dave Wikkinson." Life on Campus, November 2, 2023. Video, 
https://youtu.be/nu7WhJHAE74?si=J1EN0amFbW76fFx7

Format

MP4, 28 minutes, 18 seconds

Language

English

Type

oral history

Oral History Item Type Metadata

Interviewer

Mokhtare Zadeh, Tara

Location

Toronto, Ontario, Canada (via Teams)

Transcription

0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:6.300
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I'm testing it right now and it doesn't seem the echo is affecting it.
0:0:6.470 --> 0:0:8.20
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So, OK, there we go.
0:3:19.180 --> 0:3:22.750
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So I'll start the recording process now.
0:3:29.880 --> 0:3:30.650
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:3:30.980 --> 0:3:36.880
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll begin with the first section, which is impact of popular culture.
0:3:37.810 --> 0:3:48.990
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music in a consumer culture built around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture.
0:3:50.300 --> 0:3:57.550
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
We want to better understand how students relate together with popular culture.
0:3:57.980 --> 0:4:3.320
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So there were less electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s.
0:4:3.690 --> 0:4:8.970
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How was your leisure time structured, or what did students do for fun in the 1970s?
0:4:11.740 --> 0:4:13.30
Dave
We weren't on our cell phones.
0:4:16.820 --> 0:4:17.310
Dave
Golly.
0:4:20.200 --> 0:4:21.310
Dave
I've umm.
0:4:22.330 --> 0:4:26.40
Dave
I had a car so I did and it kept me pretty poor.
0:4:26.270 --> 0:4:28.540
Dave
You either had a car or you could have a social life.
0:4:28.630 --> 0:4:29.420
Dave
I picked a car.
0:4:31.250 --> 0:4:31.780
Dave
I didn't.
0:4:31.870 --> 0:4:36.910
Dave
I didn't go out a lot so I I I I didn't live on campus.
0:4:36.920 --> 0:4:37.940
Dave
I lived off campus.
0:4:37.950 --> 0:4:41.460
Dave
My my first degree, but there I didn't.
0:4:44.90 --> 0:4:47.60
Dave
I meet a lot of people there.
0:4:47.70 --> 0:4:47.320
Dave
I'm.
0:4:47.330 --> 0:4:58.880
Dave
I'm not that at that time wasn't really going or Calgarian, so I don't think I I didn't go and hang out to to any of the bars or whatever busy studying too.
0:4:58.890 --> 0:4:59.60
Dave
A lot.
0:4:59.700 --> 0:5:2.230
Dave
Umm and I go home on.
0:5:2.320 --> 0:5:6.60
Dave
So I lived in Toronto at the time, so I I'd go home from London to Toronto.
0:5:8.40 --> 0:5:11.140
Dave
Many weekends, I think at that time I had a girlfriend.
0:5:12.980 --> 0:5:15.470
Dave
So any of the social stuff I did was probably in Toronto.
0:5:18.510 --> 0:5:19.280
Dave
I didn't really.
0:5:19.290 --> 0:5:26.880
Dave
So I lived off campus, so I didn't do a lot of on campus stuff and I didn't really go out and hang out a lot off campus.
0:5:27.570 --> 0:5:28.280
Dave
This, I said.
0:5:28.520 --> 0:5:29.970
Dave
If you had a car, you were poor.
0:5:31.940 --> 0:5:32.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yeah.
0:5:31.680 --> 0:5:37.660
Dave
I put myself through university mostly so it was whatever my summer job gave me in terms of money.
0:5:37.670 --> 0:5:41.440
Dave
That's what I lived on, so it was pretty, pretty Spartan.
0:5:42.880 --> 0:5:52.900
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I know you said that you didn't spend much time on campus, but what were the most popular hangout spots on and off campus that you are aware of?
0:5:54.180 --> 0:5:58.780
Dave
It was a every campus has a bar pub, so I'd go there a bit.
0:6:1.260 --> 0:6:2.410
Dave
Let's say I don't really think.
0:6:2.420 --> 0:6:4.350
Dave
I mean, there'd be football games.
0:6:4.360 --> 0:6:10.240
Dave
You know the the the people go to umm, you really hang out that much?
0:6:10.600 --> 0:6:14.310
Dave
Umm I I hadn't met that many people.
0:6:14.540 --> 0:6:15.200
Dave
Men or women?
0:6:19.30 --> 0:6:21.870
Dave
Yeah, I don't really didn't really do that much on campus, to be honest.
0:6:23.360 --> 0:6:23.940
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:6:23.980 --> 0:6:27.360
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did you attend any live music events during your university years?
0:6:28.640 --> 0:6:29.150
Dave
They had.
0:6:29.900 --> 0:6:33.50
Dave
Yeah, there was a concert venue off campus.
0:6:33.250 --> 0:6:39.510
Dave
A few shows dating with Murray McLaughlin was one vice Canadian folk singer.
0:6:40.160 --> 0:6:44.560
Dave
A few of those, but again, I'm I didn't spend a lot of money on that.
0:6:44.570 --> 0:6:45.880
Dave
So a few things.
0:6:46.670 --> 0:6:51.590
Dave
Mostly it'd be like a, a, a concert or something like that rock concert.
0:6:53.110 --> 0:6:55.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so I'll be skipping the next question.
0:6:56.70 --> 0:7:3.340
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the original question after that is did anglophones and francophones date each other during the 1970s.
0:7:3.530 --> 0:7:8.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
But since Western isn't a bilingual institution, I'll change that question.
0:7:8.210 --> 0:7:16.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did anglophones and basically anyone else, whether it was like international students or anything, did they date each other in the 1970s?
0:7:17.690 --> 0:7:32.690
Dave
Album I I think so and back then it was a the university was a lot more white and Western is a is is or has been probably still is known as a fairly well off university.
0:7:32.700 --> 0:7:39.600
Dave
They the the women on campus, usually we're pretty from from from some money so.
0:7:41.910 --> 0:7:50.990
Dave
But I I don't think there was much in the way of uh, you know, mixed cultures or races, but I don't think anybody thought much of it.
0:7:51.0 --> 0:7:55.900
Dave
Like if you you just you hung out with these people in class or you date them.
0:7:55.910 --> 0:7:58.140
Dave
I don't think there's any issue that I don't think it wasn't.
0:7:58.150 --> 0:8:0.730
Dave
It wasn't big or or small or anything like it was just something.
0:8:0.740 --> 0:8:4.680
Dave
Ohh well, you know you're you're dating, you know, black girl, brown girl or whatever.
0:8:4.690 --> 0:8:6.50
Dave
I don't only get ever matter to anybody.
0:8:7.40 --> 0:8:8.150
Dave
You have to remember, was the.
0:8:8.310 --> 0:8:9.490
Dave
That was the early 70s.
0:8:9.500 --> 0:8:20.610
Dave
So when I did my physics degree and and things were pretty like Toronto was still pretty white back then, it wasn't that there was a lot of other cultures and so on.
0:8:20.620 --> 0:8:22.490
Dave
It wasn't that we didn't know about them.
0:8:22.500 --> 0:8:23.570
Dave
It just wasn't that common.
0:8:23.580 --> 0:8:26.980
Dave
So Western was kind of a microcosm of that.
0:8:27.60 --> 0:8:31.440
Dave
So there there wasn't a lot of different cultures and that was.
0:8:33.160 --> 0:8:35.70
Dave
50 years ago so.
0:8:34.950 --> 0:8:35.90
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You.
0:8:37.600 --> 0:8:43.730
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so we use the term party culture to refer to social activities outside the classroom.
0:8:44.80 --> 0:8:48.410
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How would you describe the party culture on campus during the 1970s?
0:8:52.100 --> 0:9:0.310
Dave
Well, by the time my, my second degree I I started I started 1979, I graduated 92.
0:9:1.120 --> 0:9:7.290
Dave
Umm, there was a lot, a lot more party atmosphere than I think that much later.
0:9:8.20 --> 0:9:14.760
Dave
But again, I I lived off campus in my PhD degree or my my physiotherapy degree.
0:9:14.770 --> 0:9:17.470
Dave
I was married at the time and my first daughter.
0:9:17.480 --> 0:9:23.480
Dave
Your Matt's mom was two weeks old when I first started.
0:9:24.100 --> 0:9:31.600
Dave
Umm my physiotherapy degree, so there wasn't a lot of social life that I kind of participated in.
0:9:33.340 --> 0:9:39.870
Dave
I think most of a lot of my classmates, it was a professional degree, so a lot of my classmates, we got to know each other, we hung out.
0:9:39.880 --> 0:9:44.360
Dave
We had a lot of class parties, umm and love love.
0:9:44.370 --> 0:9:49.740
Dave
The kids would go to off campus to some of the bars and stuff, so I think that was fairly common all through the 70s.
0:9:52.930 --> 0:9:56.250
Dave
I mean, there's only so much on campus, and you're gonna do most of the social life.
0:9:56.300 --> 0:10:0.740
Dave
You went off, grabbed a bus with your buddies or whatever when off campus.
0:10:3.60 --> 0:10:7.0
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what did the student body think about the Vietnam War?
0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:13.850
Dave
Yeah, it's a.
0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.930
Dave
It's a while ago I I don't.
0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:17.950
Dave
It wasn't umm.
0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:22.290
Dave
I don't think it's a big thing.
0:10:22.300 --> 0:10:23.800
Dave
I mean, it wasn't something we talked about.
0:10:24.900 --> 0:10:28.110
Dave
You knew what was going on, but I don't think it was.
0:10:28.340 --> 0:10:36.370
Dave
I don't recall it being a big topic of conversation or or, you know, getting together and having, you know, heated conversations about whether right or wrong.
0:10:36.380 --> 0:10:37.560
Dave
I would or whatever. Umm.
0:10:38.430 --> 0:10:42.100
Dave
I I at that like and by the by the late 70s.
0:10:42.110 --> 0:10:43.130
Dave
I don't think it was a.
0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.950
Dave
Not really a topic of conversation at all, and it wasn't it.
0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.50
Dave
It was South of the border, so it wasn't as much our problem as it was.
0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.50
Dave
I've had friends from high school who went.
0:10:55.620 --> 0:10:58.820
Dave
Listed in the states, but it wasn't really our problem.
0:10:58.830 --> 0:11:1.650
Dave
I don't think was a lot of conversation about it.
0:11:2.280 --> 0:11:4.570
Dave
The way probably was in the state.
0:11:6.110 --> 0:11:12.250
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so rock'n'roll artist in the 1960s have promoted various forms of protest.
0:11:12.590 --> 0:11:17.290
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did your parents see rock'n'roll as rebellious or just some sort of pop form of popular music?
0:11:20.560 --> 0:11:24.580
Dave
My folks are pretty straight at least, so they there was.
0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.310
Dave
I thought there was a little bit of rebellion or dollars.
0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.930
Dave
They weren't awful, but they were.
0:11:29.80 --> 0:11:33.110
Dave
Mom and Dad were straight down the line, so yes, I would say they were.
0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.150
Dave
They would consider it a bit rebellious, uh?
0:11:39.620 --> 0:11:42.230
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so some sorry.
0:11:40.670 --> 0:11:45.640
Dave
That dad dad used to joke that they were there to be some music on the radio.
0:11:45.650 --> 0:11:48.200
Dave
He he'd say those guys aren't gonna finish at the same time.
0:11:48.210 --> 0:11:50.650
Dave
Are they all the positions is there?
0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:54.110
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:11:52.370 --> 0:11:54.380
Dave
Sorry, yeah, didn't much show.
0:11:57.50 --> 0:12:8.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So some youth culture voices of the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs to what extent to what extent were recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s?
0:12:10.930 --> 0:12:11.330
Dave
It wasn't.
0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:14.790
Dave
It wasn't a big thing.
0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.580
Dave
I mean it it there are kids are kids.
0:12:19.170 --> 0:12:22.160
Dave
If you wanted pot, you could you always do somebody.
0:12:22.170 --> 0:12:22.800
Dave
You could get it.
0:12:22.810 --> 0:12:24.170
Dave
It was still illegal then. Obviously.
0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.170
Dave
Umm yeah.
0:12:26.900 --> 0:12:28.190
Dave
I I don't think.
0:12:30.990 --> 0:12:31.330
Dave
I don't know.
0:12:31.340 --> 0:12:33.120
Dave
There's a lot of regular outside of part of.
0:12:33.130 --> 0:12:34.770
Dave
There's a lot of recreational drug use.
0:12:34.810 --> 0:12:36.370
Dave
And even cocaine was not.
0:12:38.420 --> 0:12:41.790
Dave
Probably by the 80s or 90s, cocaine became more calm.
0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.140
Dave
And but I don't think, umm, I didn't know anybody.
0:12:45.150 --> 0:12:45.520
Dave
Who?
0:12:45.590 --> 0:12:47.240
Dave
Who knew anybody kind of thing?
0:12:47.250 --> 0:12:47.480
Dave
Who?
0:12:47.490 --> 0:12:48.60
Dave
Who used it?
0:12:48.70 --> 0:12:48.880
Dave
Or or or or.
0:12:48.890 --> 0:12:49.800
Dave
No, but I mean it was.
0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:55.520
Dave
Was around I'm sure, but I think that the most common thing would have been marijuana.
0:12:55.530 --> 0:12:57.450
Dave
But again, you had to.
0:12:57.700 --> 0:12:59.650
Dave
You had to work hard to get it and.
0:13:1.640 --> 0:13:2.350
Dave
Hello I don't.
0:13:4.730 --> 0:13:8.190
Dave
So I'm aware of not none of my friends or classmates really used it a lot.
0:13:8.920 --> 0:13:13.500
Dave
If anything was marijuana, I don't think anybody I knew used anything else.
0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:15.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Here.
0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.890
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the next question is optional, but I'll ask it anyways.
0:13:18.900 --> 0:13:21.290
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You could choose to answer it or not.
0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:27.490
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So from the 1970s speak about tripping and taking psychedelics to reach a higher state of consciousness.
0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.140
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
To what extent did students on campus use hallucinogens?
0:13:32.450 --> 0:13:32.700
Dave
Who?
0:13:32.900 --> 0:13:35.50
Dave
I you know, I don't, I don't think so.
0:13:35.60 --> 0:13:39.870
Dave
I think I may be naive here, but I I think you're at on campus.
0:13:40.270 --> 0:13:46.780
Dave
You have why should have a little bit more money to maybe other campuses, but I I I I don't think there was a really a focus on that.
0:13:46.790 --> 0:13:52.700
Dave
I think you kids are kids, obviously, but I don't think there was a lot of tripping went on.
0:13:52.710 --> 0:13:55.800
Dave
I mean, you had to still show up for class and not fail out and so on.
0:13:56.130 --> 0:13:56.540
Dave
So I don't.
0:13:58.890 --> 0:14:1.290
Dave
I don't think at at at Western.
0:14:1.300 --> 0:14:5.980
Dave
I don't think there's a big thing at all, and certainly nothing that I heard.
0:14:6.250 --> 0:14:10.40
Dave
I mean, I was always something, I guess, but it wasn't really common at all.
0:14:10.470 --> 0:14:13.940
Dave
And I again, they were harder to come by even than than marijuana.
0:14:13.980 --> 0:14:14.440
Dave
So.
0:14:14.650 --> 0:14:18.750
Dave
So I don't think it was a big thing for me on on Western's campus.
0:14:20.250 --> 0:14:20.960
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:14:21.30 --> 0:14:25.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll be moving on to next section, which is about the female experience.
0:14:26.730 --> 0:14:31.720
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So cultural historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave feminism.
0:14:32.210 --> 0:14:38.730
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
That as a part of the counterculture movement, women during the night in the early 1970s sought to break down gender barriers.
0:14:39.250 --> 0:14:45.160
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Does this argument resonate with your experience on the Universe University campus during the early 1970s?
0:14:47.0 --> 0:14:47.890
Dave
I would say so.
0:14:47.900 --> 0:14:49.940
Dave
I think it was it.
0:14:50.100 --> 0:14:56.480
Dave
Yeah, there was a lot of assuming we can do what we want to kind of thing, I mean.
0:14:58.610 --> 0:15:3.660
Dave
I I think that was the the the in the the heat of it back then.
0:15:3.670 --> 0:15:14.20
Dave
I mean, women were very conscious of doing what they wanted as they wanted, looking out for themselves, career, sex, as they wanted to, relationships as they wanted to.
0:15:14.30 --> 0:15:16.20
Dave
I think that was huge back then.
0:15:16.30 --> 0:15:20.90
Dave
I it wasn't something you to me.
0:15:20.100 --> 0:15:21.980
Dave
It wasn't a big thing, was kind of like, you know, OK.
0:15:22.20 --> 0:15:27.160
Dave
Ohh of course you know and I think a lot of it was that it wasn't like people were.
0:15:27.450 --> 0:15:30.960
Dave
I don't remember a protester or or things like that.
0:15:31.30 --> 0:15:36.890
Dave
On a cap, women on campus protesting stuff like that, which is kind of, we're just going to do like, let's get it done kind of thing.
0:15:36.990 --> 0:15:37.580
Dave
It wasn't.
0:15:37.890 --> 0:15:38.760
Dave
It wasn't really.
0:15:39.670 --> 0:15:40.410
Dave
There was a lot of.
0:15:41.150 --> 0:15:42.870
Dave
I'm sad.
0:15:43.450 --> 0:15:46.440
Dave
Social action about which is something like you kind of went.
0:15:46.450 --> 0:15:46.800
Dave
Yeah, OK.
0:15:46.810 --> 0:15:47.570
Dave
This makes sense.
0:15:47.580 --> 0:15:48.870
Dave
At least that's my perception of it.
0:15:49.900 --> 0:15:56.570
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so in your own words, what did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s?
0:15:59.30 --> 0:15:59.700
Dave
Jeez, I don't know.
0:16:5.820 --> 0:16:11.900
Dave
I I guess just equality like the do do.
0:16:11.910 --> 0:16:16.990
Dave
There's no particular roles that do what you want it to.
0:16:17.660 --> 0:16:20.110
Dave
I it wasn't to me.
0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:29.110
Dave
It wasn't about and activism or or protesting or whatever I think was just about, well, yeah, just do what?
0:16:29.290 --> 0:16:30.30
Dave
What's right?
0:16:30.40 --> 0:16:30.680
Dave
You know what I mean?
0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:31.780
Dave
I it wasn't.
0:16:31.850 --> 0:16:39.200
Dave
I don't think it was a something to galvanized people to to get together and protest or you know, whatever.
0:16:39.210 --> 0:16:40.150
Dave
I think it was just kinda.
0:16:40.460 --> 0:16:43.220
Dave
Yeah, that's just this is this is right, let's just move on.
0:16:45.260 --> 0:16:49.770
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today.
0:16:50.180 --> 0:16:56.820
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
How did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classroom or at social events compared to male students?
0:17:3.570 --> 0:17:4.60
Dave
Yeah, I know.
0:17:4.70 --> 0:17:7.430
Dave
We like, I think roles were still like.
0:17:11.100 --> 0:17:11.440
Dave
You're.
0:17:13.820 --> 0:17:14.220
Dave
Your.
0:17:15.740 --> 0:17:19.160
Dave
Dating and hanging out, it was like a A I don't think.
0:17:22.140 --> 0:17:23.500
Dave
I mean a role.
0:17:23.510 --> 0:17:27.590
Dave
I don't know if you had classmates who were male, female.
0:17:27.660 --> 0:17:28.490
Dave
Have you hung out?
0:17:28.980 --> 0:17:31.680
Dave
We'd, we'd laugh and joke and and study.
0:17:37.420 --> 0:17:38.190
Dave
OK, this thing.
0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.780
Dave
Sorry, my phones ringing here.
0:17:40.460 --> 0:17:40.890
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
That's OK.
0:17:42.300 --> 0:17:42.660
Dave
I can't even.
0:17:46.930 --> 0:17:47.500
Dave
So I don't.
0:17:49.650 --> 0:17:50.970
Dave
Like I don't, it's just.
0:17:54.340 --> 0:17:55.150
Dave
There wasn't a blur.
0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.60
Dave
I I don't know like it was just you.
0:17:59.370 --> 0:18:0.830
Dave
Guys hang out with girls like.
0:18:0.840 --> 0:18:3.170
Dave
Yeah, because they were girls and and and vice versa.
0:18:3.180 --> 0:18:6.940
Dave
Like it wasn't a, it wasn't kind of a confusion or a wondering about that.
0:18:7.90 --> 0:18:9.390
Dave
It was just kind of, you know, does that make sense?
0:18:10.650 --> 0:18:11.980
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
I suppose, yeah.
0:18:12.390 --> 0:18:17.220
0:20:59.170 --> 0:21:6.450
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So in the 1970s, where their programs, departments or clubs where women were less present and accepted.
0:21:12.590 --> 0:21:12.800
Dave
I'm.
0:21:16.0 --> 0:21:18.70
Dave
I don't, I don't think so.
0:21:18.530 --> 0:21:20.0
Dave
I'm. I never.
0:21:20.90 --> 0:21:25.140
Dave
I didn't join many of those things, so I don't draw a lot of first time knowledge.
0:21:25.150 --> 0:21:25.980
Dave
I don't think there was any.
0:21:28.150 --> 0:21:33.940
Dave
I think, yeah, nothing that I can think are really any any discrimination that way.
0:21:33.950 --> 0:21:34.500
Dave
Any difference?
0:21:36.660 --> 0:21:36.850
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:21:37.890 --> 0:21:46.770
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
In the sense of departments, I suppose it's meaning like the Steins Department or alike engineering, where they less present in that.
0:21:45.750 --> 0:21:48.580
Dave
Ohh, OK Ohh OK, sorry I misunderstood.
0:21:48.590 --> 0:21:48.920
Dave
Yeah.
0:21:48.930 --> 0:21:54.810
Dave
Well, certainly engineering was, you know, was a guys hang out all the stuff they did.
0:21:54.820 --> 0:21:58.160
Dave
There were very few women in engineering.
0:21:58.390 --> 0:22:7.0
Dave
More in science, my that's we have a my class in in, umm physiotherapy.
0:22:7.200 --> 0:22:7.840
Dave
It was.
0:22:7.990 --> 0:22:11.720
Dave
It was thirty students and 25 are women, so that was.
0:22:11.770 --> 0:22:17.560
Dave
But I think that kind of reflected more sort of what society expected people to do.
0:22:17.620 --> 0:22:27.650
Dave
But the I think that was part of it, that women didn't gravitate into things like engineering and technology math, that sort of thing. Umm.
0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:27.910
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:22:29.590 --> 0:22:35.280
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we'll move on to next bit, which is about ideology and generational differences.
0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:44.430
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that you're a generation rebelled against the values of your parents.
0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:52.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Generation to what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize for a more just society and a better world?
0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.660
Dave
I don't think there was a lot of.
0:23:1.160 --> 0:23:4.680
Dave
Yeah, sort of social action around that.
0:23:4.690 --> 0:23:9.780
Dave
I I think we, uh, something that you knew about, but it wasn't.
0:23:9.790 --> 0:23:10.570
Dave
There wasn't a whole lot of.
0:23:13.190 --> 0:23:16.350
Dave
Activity around that like I think we were aware of it, but there wasn't.
0:23:16.390 --> 0:23:20.0
Dave
It wasn't something that we it wasn't protests and and things like that.
0:23:20.10 --> 0:23:23.770
Dave
I mean, umm, universities are a different culture.
0:23:23.780 --> 0:23:30.330
Dave
It's kind of a little microcosm of the the world in there, but I don't think I recall anything along those lines.
0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:39.660
Dave
Umm, any kind of counterculture kind of extra interest the.
0:23:42.290 --> 0:23:44.670
Dave
Maybe I I I just can't think of.
0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:52.790
Dave
Like aside from from different faculties and so on, but I I don't think there's any kind of interest in that kind of stuff at all.
0:23:52.850 --> 0:23:53.710
Dave
Not that I'm aware of.
0:23:55.260 --> 0:24:3.350
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so to what extent did your generation believe that your parents notions about gender, family and dating were outdated?
0:24:9.160 --> 0:24:11.740
Dave
But to a fair degree, I guess I mean.
0:24:13.630 --> 0:24:19.40
Dave
Umm, gender wasn't a big thing back then, not like it is now.
0:24:19.230 --> 0:24:25.640
Dave
Dating, I think you know, my parents hope that you'd marry.
0:24:26.10 --> 0:24:30.160
Dave
So don't have kids and grandkids so quickly kind of thing.
0:24:30.170 --> 0:24:35.300
Dave
So and and you know you, you'd marry a nice girl or she'd marry a nice guy or whatever.
0:24:36.310 --> 0:24:45.160
Dave
I think by the 70s we were a little more laid back about who we picked as a partner, whatever for dating or for marriage or whatever.
0:24:45.170 --> 0:24:52.50
Dave
So yeah, I would say we were then pushing away from what my parents would expect.
0:24:53.580 --> 0:24:59.230
Dave
Back in my so my parents culture is very like they they it was, it was post war.
0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:4.910
Dave
So it was busy getting on with things and building a life and so on and all of other stuff.
0:25:4.920 --> 0:25:15.290
Dave
My, my, my parents didn't probably appreciate that as much the so why can't you just find a nice girl and settle down and kind of would be there philosophy, you know?
0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:16.620
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yeah.
0:25:17.610 --> 0:25:26.610
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so looking back at the 1970s, what aspect of Canadian society did you see as most out of whack and in need of fixing?
0:25:29.980 --> 0:25:30.140
Dave
Yeah.
0:25:31.770 --> 0:25:32.440
Dave
See, I don't know.
0:25:32.460 --> 0:25:33.750
Dave
I really thought about it. Umm.
0:25:40.130 --> 0:25:42.150
Dave
I'm not really sure.
0:25:44.540 --> 0:25:49.870
Dave
I don't think Ohh most of the people I knew weren't really social activists.
0:25:50.780 --> 0:25:52.290
Dave
Umm, weren't.
0:25:54.430 --> 0:25:55.60
Dave
Concerned.
0:25:56.180 --> 0:25:57.460
Dave
No, that's not the right word.
0:25:57.540 --> 0:25:59.900
Dave
Word weren't active about it. Umm.
0:26:2.20 --> 0:26:2.530
Dave
I don't think we.
0:26:4.390 --> 0:26:7.810
Dave
Like you're you're sort of busy doing your own thing rather than worrying about.
0:26:9.490 --> 0:26:10.560
Dave
Social change.
0:26:10.570 --> 0:26:14.60
Dave
Social action, at least not that I'm aware of.
0:26:14.70 --> 0:26:14.570
Dave
I don't, I don't.
0:26:16.330 --> 0:26:20.130
Dave
In kind of a university environment, that wasn't anything that I particularly saw.
0:26:22.90 --> 0:26:28.380
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what were the principle forms of injustice in Canadian society during the 1970s?
0:26:30.550 --> 0:26:30.980
Dave
Don't go away.
0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.130
Dave
That I'm having trouble remembering.
0:26:38.110 --> 0:26:40.630
Dave
Well, we weren't aware of it, but certainly indigenous.
0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:46.880
Dave
Stuff was we I don't think we were aware of it as much back then as we are now.
0:26:48.40 --> 0:26:56.400
Dave
Umm, some level of of gender women weren't didn't have access to as many things, but we weren't.
0:26:57.310 --> 0:26:59.200
Dave
That wasn't a hot social issue.
0:27:0.380 --> 0:27:1.30
Dave
Umm.
0:27:5.990 --> 0:27:11.460
Dave
And I I can't think of like it wasn't something that I I think I was particularly aware of.
0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:19.770
Dave
You know you're busy doing other things, but not really aware of the the wider social issues kind of thing.
0:27:21.740 --> 0:27:22.390
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:27.710
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Did you feel that the political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens needs?
0:27:31.20 --> 0:27:39.900
Dave
I I would say mostly I mean, so I don't think people thought the system was perfect, but I don't think there was much.
0:27:42.450 --> 0:27:43.570
Dave
Unrestored or.
0:27:45.90 --> 0:27:46.350
Dave
Activism around that.
0:27:48.580 --> 0:27:51.240
Dave
I think there was, I think.
0:27:53.900 --> 0:27:54.40
Dave
Yeah.
0:27:54.40 --> 0:27:58.810
Dave
It's just they're the political system has always been a bit corrupt, I suppose.
0:27:58.820 --> 0:28:8.160
Dave
Or open to all kinds of things, but not not as much and not as umm known as as it is today. Umm.
0:28:9.920 --> 0:28:12.300
Dave
So umm, I would say.
0:28:14.450 --> 0:28:17.280
Dave
To some degree, but not we were.
0:28:17.290 --> 0:28:20.510
Dave
We were busy doing other things, I think rather than focused on that stuff.
0:28:22.510 --> 0:28:37.580
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and it's this, the dissemination of the free love ideology, change, gender relations and the dating practices in the early 1970s.
0:28:37.890 --> 0:28:39.180
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Do you agree with that statement?
0:28:40.180 --> 0:28:41.80
Dave
Yeah.
0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:42.820
Dave
Yes, very much so.
0:28:43.40 --> 0:28:43.670
Dave
Yeah.
0:28:44.450 --> 0:28:44.650
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:28:44.100 --> 0:28:47.100
Dave
Yeah, we did change dating hugely.
0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:53.80
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, So what did dating look like on campus during the 1970s?
0:28:54.830 --> 0:28:56.210
Dave
Alright, there was.
0:28:56.220 --> 0:28:57.630
Dave
There was a lot of party, yeah.
0:29:0.220 --> 0:29:3.400
Dave
I I think it was much more.
0:29:7.740 --> 0:29:14.650
Dave
Kids were looking to *** **** more and and did *** **** more than you know a decade before.
0:29:14.820 --> 0:29:20.940
Dave
Certainly my parents generation the the uh birth control, it changed a lot.
0:29:20.950 --> 0:29:22.940
Dave
The contraception changed all that.
0:29:23.850 --> 0:29:29.430
Dave
Which meant you could be more sexual activity that with, you know, worrying about and.
0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:33.90
Dave
And it was kind of like, well, this is where it should be kind of thing.
0:29:33.100 --> 0:29:33.820
Dave
You know, it wasn't.
0:29:34.130 --> 0:29:40.210
Dave
You went around celebrate, but it was just kind of, but it made things a lot easier.
0:29:40.220 --> 0:29:42.230
Dave
I think people had a lot more fun.
0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:45.870
Dave
I think a lot more hooking up the one on umm, uh.
0:29:46.730 --> 0:29:47.540
Dave
Personally, not me.
0:29:47.550 --> 0:29:51.620
Dave
I had a girlfriend back in Toronto at the time and my secondary.
0:29:51.630 --> 0:29:56.420
Dave
I was married with a host at a mortgage and A and a two week old baby.
0:29:56.430 --> 0:29:59.940
Dave
So it was a lot of partying there for me, but I think it was.
0:30:0.570 --> 0:30:6.470
Dave
I think it definitely had an impact and made, uh, minute kids.
0:30:6.620 --> 0:30:11.790
Dave
So want to enable to some do more.
0:30:13.620 --> 0:30:17.170
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so how did your generation look at family and marriage?
0:30:19.950 --> 0:30:24.400
Dave
I think it was just assumed that you'd eventually get married and have a family.
0:30:24.410 --> 0:30:30.50
Dave
I think that was many of the people I knew that wasn't an overt thing.
0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:32.940
Dave
The joke in the 70s was that.
0:30:35.710 --> 0:30:38.860
Dave
At Western lot of women came to get their Mrs degree.
0:30:39.890 --> 0:30:41.280
Dave
They did to find a husband.
0:30:41.610 --> 0:30:44.440
Dave
That was the Western something that way.
0:30:44.450 --> 0:30:46.580
Dave
But I think it was kind of.
0:30:46.790 --> 0:30:51.390
Dave
It was assumed that you'd at some point get married and have a family.
0:30:53.460 --> 0:30:58.460
Dave
That was the only sort of social structure we you you grew up with kind of thing.
0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:0.760
Dave
And again at the time.
0:31:2.830 --> 0:31:3.630
Dave
Toronto is fairly.
0:31:4.540 --> 0:31:7.830
Dave
Of pretty, pretty straightforward.
0:31:7.840 --> 0:31:18.990
Dave
We were conservative, I think very conservative in our behavior and there wasn't a lot of I'm non non traditional families and stuff like that.
0:31:19.0 --> 0:31:26.810
Dave
So you came from a background where where you know the mom and dad and you had kids, you know, you had siblings and so on.
0:31:26.820 --> 0:31:33.190
Dave
And that's kind of what you grew up expecting, I think in the 70s, people were looking perhaps to change that later.
0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:38.440
Dave
But I think the expectations were, you know, a family house in the suburbs and and whatnot.
0:31:41.40 --> 0:31:41.500
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK.
0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:51.470
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So we've reached the final portion of the interview, but this portion is completely optional and it does come with the disclaimer.
0:31:52.100 --> 0:31:56.810
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So the following section is optional and it concerns sexuality and harassment.
0:31:57.300 --> 0:32:4.590
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
We appreciate that not everyone will feel comfortable with these questions and we want to reiterate that your participation is entirely voluntary.
0:32:5.240 --> 0:32:10.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
You may choose to answer questions that make you feel uncomfortable or skip this section entirely.
0:32:13.170 --> 0:32:13.390
Dave
Yep.
0:32:14.550 --> 0:32:20.300
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment.
0:32:20.410 --> 0:32:25.660
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe?
0:32:28.420 --> 0:32:33.100
Dave
I'm not not much if I don't think.
0:32:33.950 --> 0:32:38.220
Dave
I don't know that parties were that wild back then.
0:32:40.260 --> 0:32:43.220
Dave
I don't think the universities police that much at all.
0:32:43.230 --> 0:32:46.570
Dave
I mean, if something happened on campus, the police would show up, but it wasn't.
0:32:46.900 --> 0:32:47.450
Dave
Well, I don't know.
0:32:47.460 --> 0:32:49.130
Dave
It was a big thing policing.
0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:56.200
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so our generation is interested in a free love movement.
0:32:56.640 --> 0:33:1.490
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
What was the perception of premarital sex on the university campus in the 1970s?
0:33:1.670 --> 0:33:4.310
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Was it viewed negatively accepted or even encouraged?
0:33:5.180 --> 0:33:6.620
Dave
Yeah, I would definitely encourage them.
0:33:8.60 --> 0:33:8.640
Dave
It was a.
0:33:13.330 --> 0:33:17.510
Dave
Like the world had opened, the doors are opened and you could do what you wanted to do.
0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:21.70
Dave
And yeah, so it was a very much a, I mean it wasn't.
0:33:23.550 --> 0:33:25.640
Dave
Radical hippies running around the university campus.
0:33:25.650 --> 0:33:28.850
Dave
But I I think that very much umm was.
0:33:31.290 --> 0:33:34.540
Dave
A birth control and and said open sexuality and so on.
0:33:34.550 --> 0:33:38.410
Dave
And and being able to do what you wanted was very much a thing then.
0:33:40.740 --> 0:33:44.530
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
So did members of your parents generation worry about premarital sex?
0:33:45.980 --> 0:33:48.370
Dave
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.820
Dave
But only because you didn't.
0:33:50.860 --> 0:33:52.520
Dave
You didn't want to get the.
0:33:53.550 --> 0:34:0.290
Dave
You didn't want your daughter to get pregnant or your son to get her pregnant, so that was, I think, the premarital sex and and.
0:34:0.960 --> 0:34:7.160
Dave
And having a having a child having a pregnancy were were the big thing that.
0:34:7.170 --> 0:34:13.360
Dave
Not sure they were so worried about having sex was the consequences of that if if you happen to get her pregnant kind of thing.
0:34:13.370 --> 0:34:15.100
Dave
So I was very much concerned of theirs.
0:34:16.740 --> 0:34:24.340
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
OK, so that was the last question of the interview and I would love like to thank you so much for your time. Yes.
0:34:24.290 --> 0:34:24.720
Dave
OK.
0:34:24.730 --> 0:34:25.440
Dave
You're welcome.
0:34:25.450 --> 0:34:25.970
Dave
I hope it's helpful.
0:34:27.60 --> 0:34:27.530
Tara Mokhtare Zadeh
Yes.

Citation

“Wilkinson, Dave (Interview),” Life on Campus, accessed October 15, 2024, http://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/items/show/58.

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