Puffer, Sheila (interview)

Puffer, Sheila (interview)

Account of the subjects experiences on campus of the University of Ottawa in the 1970's.

2023-10-22

English

oral history

Bendall, Alex

Boston, Massachusetts, United States

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Alex Bendall
All right, sounds good.
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Puffer, Sheila
Mm hmm. And if you have 3 themes it would be good if you could tell me what the three themes are as an overview.
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Alex Bendall
Absolutely. So there's like I have about a few sentences to start each one. The first one is the impact of culture. The second one is the feminist experience. And the third one is.
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Alex Bendall
Ideology and generational differences.
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Puffer, Sheila
So the first one is the influence of pop culture.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
On what?
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Alex Bendall
Just popular culture of the 1970s in general.
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Puffer, Sheila
Oh, the influence of it, or just my experience with it.
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Alex Bendall
I guess your experience, I think that, yeah, this whole interview, it's about like your experience from University of Ottawa in the 1970s, so.
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Alex Bendall
My first question is.
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Puffer, Sheila
Wait, I'd. I'm so that is the first theme. The second one was feminist.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah. The second one is the feminist experience.
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Alex Bendall
So, like cultural historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave of feminism. That is part of the counterculture movement and with women during their early 1970s sought to break gender barriers. Does this argument resonate with your experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the early 1970s?
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Puffer, Sheila
OK. So we're just talking about the early 1970s.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
What time span do you want?
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Alex Bendall
Uh, whenever you were attending UOttawa.
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Puffer, Sheila
I was there for a long time.
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Alex Bendall
How long were you there for?
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Puffer, Sheila
Eight years.
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Alex Bendall
Eight years.
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Puffer, Sheila
I think so.
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Puffer, Sheila
Let me see.
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Puffer, Sheila
71 to 79.
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Alex Bendall
Perfect.
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Puffer, Sheila
That's eight years.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, I think I got my.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yes, I got my MBA in 1979.
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Puffer, Sheila
OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
All right. Yeah, it's a long time ago, Alex.
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Puffer, Sheila
Alright.
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Alex Bendall
I'll just.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
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Alex Bendall
Just tell me whatever you can, but whatever you remember.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yep. And then the third thing is.
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Alex Bendall
The third thing.
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Alex Bendall
Is also part of what they call a counterculture revolution.
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Alex Bendall
Meaning your generation tend, like, rebelled against the values of your parents' generation. So what would be your experience with that topic?
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Puffer, Sheila
I see.
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Puffer, Sheila
Same. OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
Hmm. Alright, yeah. It's a little different from what I was expecting, but that's quite alright. So please go ahead.
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Alex Bendall
Yep, alright.
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Alex Bendall
So for the first question about popular culture.
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Alex Bendall
There were obviously less electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s. How was your leisure time structured or what did you Ottawa students do for fun in the 1970s?
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Puffer, Sheila
Went skating on the canal.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Too bad you couldn't do it.
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Alex Bendall
I tried to do that. Yeah, exactly. I tried to do that last year. It didn't didn't work out.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, mm hmm.
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Puffer, Sheila
And.
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Puffer, Sheila
Having a small group of friends over.
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Alex Bendall
Nice.
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Puffer, Sheila
Socializing with small groups of friends.
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Alex Bendall
Whereabouts on campus? Did you live?
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Puffer, Sheila
First year I lived in a brand new building.
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Alex Bendall
Oh.
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Puffer, Sheila
It was a high rise.
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Puffer, Sheila
It was across from Le Blanc Hall.
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Puffer, Sheila
And it was Coed. The different floors were Coed.
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Puffer, Sheila
Hmm.
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Puffer, Sheila
Can't remember the name of it now.
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Alex Bendall
That's fine.
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Puffer, Sheila
Was brand new that year in 1971.
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Alex Bendall
Nice.
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Puffer, Sheila
Think it came in.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yes, I came in 71.
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Alex Bendall
N.
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Alex Bendall
What were the most popular hangout spots on and off campus?
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Puffer, Sheila
Oh, father and son.
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Alex Bendall
Is that-... what was that?
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Puffer, Sheila
It's a restaurant.
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Alex Bendall
Restaurant. Yeah. OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
It's still there or it was there the last time I was there, like a couple of years ago.
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Alex Bendall
I don't think I've seen that yet.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Well, obviously it's a classic. It's been around for over 50 years. It was old by then when I was there.
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Puffer, Sheila
Another one was there was a marvelous lunch place inside a church on Laurier.
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Alex Bendall
OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
Was really, really good food. Yeah, we used to go there a lot.
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Alex Bendall
Nice.
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Alex Bendall
Did you attend any live music events during university years or what were the most popular musicians or artists at that time? Are your favorites maybe.
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Puffer, Sheila
Hmm, I used to go to the National Arts Centre regularly. My husband and I had subscriptions to both the French and the English theater.
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Alex Bendall
Nice.
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Puffer, Sheila
And we went to see just about everybody who came through. So we saw people who are long dead now. We saw in terms of music, we saw Buddy Rich, the drummer.
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Puffer, Sheila
We saw.
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Puffer, Sheila
With oh, Oh my gosh, we saw.
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Puffer, Sheila
Not sure how they found you.
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Puffer, Sheila
His name was Gilbert Becaud.
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Puffer, Sheila
And my husband and I used to laugh because we were laughing through the performance because he was a heavy smoker. He was a singer. Fabulous, like Tom Jones or something like that. He was really charismatic. And in between songs, he would go off stage and you could see the cigarette smoke billowing out from behind that curtain. And then he'd come out and he'd sing another song.
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Puffer, Sheila
He didn't last long, but he was really good.
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Alex Bendall
That's great.
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Puffer, Sheila
So we used to go to pretty much everybody who came to the National Arts Centre.
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Puffer, Sheila
And we occasionally went to that fair, the exhibition where the animals were.
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Puffer, Sheila
It was called the Ex, something like that, I forget what it's called. Some sort of agricultural fair down by Lansdowne.
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Alex Bendall
Oh yeah, yeah, like the big barn they have there beside Lansdowne Park. Yeah, OK, I know.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah. So the animal competitions and.
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Alex Bendall
Oh yeah. OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah. So it was pretty simple stuff.
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Puffer, Sheila
But in terms of?
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Puffer, Sheila
Let me see.
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Puffer, Sheila
OK, so anyway, go ahead. What else have you got to ask me? Those are a few little nuggets.
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Alex Bendall
That's great. Like who? Who's your favorite musician of that time, do you think?
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Puffer, Sheila
Gordon Lightfoot.
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Alex Bendall
Gordon Lightfoot? Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
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Alex Bendall
Didn't he pass away? Like pretty recently? I feel like I heard that recently. Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
And I heard him in Boston, where I live ,about 10 years ago, and his voice was just shot.
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Alex Bendall
That's too bad.
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Puffer, Sheila
But he was still performing because he loved to perform. Yeah.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, he didn't have much lung capacity at the time. But anyway, yeah, Gordon Lightfoot.
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Alex Bendall
In.
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Alex Bendall
OK. My next question is.
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Alex Bendall
Since Ottawa U was a bilingual institution, how linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s, like did francophones and anglophones enroll in the same courses and participate in the same clubs and all hang out together? Or is it really kind of separated a bit?
Puffer, Sheila
We pretty much enrolled in the same courses and participated in the same clubs. Native French-speaking students took courses in English and spoke English in the clubs, but typically not vice versa.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
I grew up in numerous cities across Canada that are English speaking cities.
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Puffer, Sheila
And.
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Puffer, Sheila
I started learning French in Thunder Bay Ontario when I was 11.
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Puffer, Sheila
And so I had basic French and I wanted to be a translator and interpreter for the UN from French to English, since English is my mother tongue. So why I came to the University of Ottawa was to study in the School of Translators and Interpreters.
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Puffer, Sheila
I was one of two native English speaking people in that programme which was designed for French speakers to translate to, do translation and interpretation into English.
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Puffer, Sheila
So essentially I did the programme backwards.
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Puffer, Sheila
Right.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
Yeah. And I I, uh, tried to, uh, engage in virtually as many things in French as I could.
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Puffer, Sheila
So I was learning French all the time there and.
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Puffer, Sheila
I would go to French speaking events, but I would say overall the English speaking students kept to themselves and the French speaking students kept to themselves except when they took courses offered in English. But I was in an exceptional programme there where I was the outlier, one of two outliers, right?
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Puffer, Sheila
Umm, on campus and everywhere around Ottawa, I would insist on having people speak to me in French. But as soon as I opened my mouth, even though I spoke French, you know reasonably well, they could tell that I was an Anglophone and they would kind of politely or automatically switch into English. And I would have to say no, no, no.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
And I had a stenographer's book. You don't know what that is, but it's a lined book and it coil and it has lines, vertical lines, excuse me, horizontal lines and then a vertical line down the middle. And I filled up several of those books where I learned a French word. And then I found the English translation. So I definitely came out of the University of Ottawa, bilingual.
And when I.
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Puffer, Sheila
But I did switch my major from the school of translators and interpreters.
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Alex Bendall
Interesting.
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Puffer, Sheila
To Slavic Studies, my undergraduate degree is in Slavic Studies because, yeah, you had to take another language when you were in the school of translators and interpreters.
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Puffer, Sheila
Umm I was advised by a professor not at Ottawa, in another translator school at Laurentian University, where I started out.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
All the French speaking students were all going to take Spanish as their third language and I thought, well, I'll do that too. But the director of that translation and interpretation programme took me aside and said, “You know, you can take Spanish anytime. I suggest a more challenging language for you.” “Oh, really?” “I suggest Russian.” I said, “OK.”
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Puffer, Sheila
So I not only fell in love with Russian.
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Puffer, Sheila
And all things Slavic. When I met my husband.
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Puffer, Sheila
Thanks to the University of Ottawa and I was 18 years old. And if you're gonna ask me, are you gonna ask me about clubs?
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Puffer, Sheila
OK. Well then I'll save it for clubs.
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Alex Bendall
No, it's OK. You can tell me how I'm kind of like already in the club section. You can keep going.
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Puffer, Sheila
Alright, thank you. OK, so.
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Puffer, Sheila
January 5th, 1972 at 6:00 PM.
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Puffer, Sheila
I showed up in Professor Douglas Clayton's office.
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Puffer, Sheila
Second course in second year Russian with him.
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Puffer, Sheila
And he said come to my office at that time if you're interested in starting up a Russian social club, Slavic social club called Slavyansky Bazar. That's what he was calling it. Slavic bazaar. And guess who showed up?
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Puffer, Sheila
Maybe three or four other students, including my future husband, who was a graduate student. He was doing his master's in Russian literature.
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Puffer, Sheila
Well, right then and there in that professor's office.
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Puffer, Sheila
That graduate student and myself just thought it was the coup de foudre. Do you know about coup de foudre?
0:14:28.940 --> 0:14:29.500
Puffer, Sheila
Oh, OK.
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Puffer, Sheila
I guess love at first sight.
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Alex Bendall
Oh, OK, yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
But I love the expression coup de foudre because it means lightning struck.
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Alex Bendall
Yeah.
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Puffer, Sheila
OK, so.
0:14:46.830 --> 0:14:47.750
Puffer, Sheila
We got married.
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Puffer, Sheila
Very soon after that.
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Puffer, Sheila
And we were married for.
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Puffer, Sheila
Almost 30 years.
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Puffer, Sheila
And he passed away from cancer.
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Puffer, Sheila
20 years ago. We had two kids and we had a great life and I'm forever grateful to Doctor Douglas Clayton for inviting students to create the Slavianski Bazaar Club, and we did, and we had a really good time at that club. We had dances and we had parties and the professors came.
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Puffer, Sheila
So very special. I had to get that in there somewhere that my life is completely.
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Puffer, Sheila
Fulfilled.
0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.160
Puffer, Sheila
Having had a, you know, a family life like that.
0:15:45.140 --> 0:15:46.820
Puffer, Sheila
Having met my husband there.
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Alex Bendall
I'm sorry to hear about him. That's a great story.
0:16:0.150 --> 0:16:0.550
Alex Bendall
All right.
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Puffer, Sheila
By the way, Alex, in case you didn't guess, that was my favorite club.
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Alex Bendall
Good. Have you ever been to Russia?
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Puffer, Sheila
Many times.
0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:13.760
Alex Bendall
Many times, yes.
0:16:13.740 --> 0:16:15.340
Puffer, Sheila
I'm alright.
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Puffer, Sheila
So this is-... we can put this in the feminism feminist experience category, OK?
0:16:24.290 --> 0:16:27.170
Puffer, Sheila
OK. So just to continue on.
0:16:36.0 --> 0:16:44.200
Puffer, Sheila
Men have really helped me out tremendously throughout my life. My husband was my biggest supporter.
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Puffer, Sheila
And that professor who encouraged me to take a hard language, that was great too.
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Puffer, Sheila
Additionally.
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Puffer, Sheila
After I graduated, I started my MBA part time. I was working full time for the National Capital Commission and I'd take my MBA classes and at the same time I was a research assistant to two professors.
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Puffer, Sheila
And.
0:17:10.80 --> 0:17:17.600
Puffer, Sheila
I'll give you their names. They're both in the Business School and they both retired. One was Jacques Jabez.
0:17:19.220 --> 0:17:38.300
Puffer, Sheila
And the other professor was Michel Nedzella. So they were friends and they were young professors.
0:17:39.780 --> 0:17:43.140
Puffer, Sheila
I worked for them as their research assistant. One Saturday morning, they had me come to the university. They sat me down and they said….
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Puffer, Sheila
Oh, I'll back up a little bit. Professor Jabes. When I was no more than 22 years old, he called me to come to his office. I was his research assistant at that time and I was working full time.
0:18:12.370 --> 0:18:20.130
Puffer, Sheila
I had been taking my MBA courses.
0:18:21.850 --> 0:18:21.970
Puffer, Sheila
And.
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Puffer, Sheila
So I came over and saw him and he said, “We would like you to teach a course in organizational psychology to the undergraduates.”
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Puffer, Sheila
“Really! I've never taught before.”
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Puffer, Sheila
“Oh, we know you can do it.”
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Puffer, Sheila
“And by the way, it's in French.”
0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:41.920
Puffer, Sheila
“What?”
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Puffer, Sheila
“And it starts next week.”
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Puffer, Sheila
I just about fell on the floor.
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Puffer, Sheila
Oh my God. So anyway, I did it.
0:18:55.990 --> 0:19:1.870
Puffer, Sheila
I managed to do it and the students were wonderful. I was, you know, a couple of years older than the students.
0:19:3.350 --> 0:19:19.350
Puffer, Sheila
And we made it through. All right. So after all of that, as I said, I was in the MBA programme part time and then that Saturday morning, Professor Jabes and Professor Professor Nedzela called me in. They said, “You know, we've been thinking.”
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Puffer, Sheila
“We think you should get a PhD in business.”
0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:46.560
Puffer, Sheila
I said, “What's that? I've never heard of that before.” I was the first person in my family to go to university. My parents grew up on farms and my dad didn't even finish high school. So…. What! Anyway, I ended up going to the top university for my programme.
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Puffer, Sheila
Which was the University of California, Berkeley, and it was all because of those two men.
0:20:0.310 --> 0:20:2.750
Puffer, Sheila
They said that would be perfect for me to do.
0:20:4.420 --> 0:20:6.180
Puffer, Sheila
So when you talk about feminism, somehow these various men along the way at the University of Ottawa, including my husband and those professors, saw my potential, they saw my talent, they saw my goal orientation.
0:20:33.390 --> 0:20:33.590
Alex Bendall
Wow.
0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:51.480
Puffer, Sheila
And they facilitated my education and my career path. And you know what I do today? I'm a professor of international business and sustainability at Northeastern University in Boston, and it's thanks to them.
0:20:54.190 --> 0:20:59.950
Puffer, Sheila
So that's one aspect of feminism. I was a great beneficiary of that era.
0:21:2.290 --> 0:21:13.970
Puffer, Sheila
And secondly, I remember it was 1972, I believe that was designated as the Year of the Woman.
0:21:15.690 --> 0:21:19.10
Puffer, Sheila
In Canada, or maybe the United Nations, or something.
0:21:20.690 --> 0:21:25.10
Puffer, Sheila
So we had somebody come you've never heard of. Whose name is Betty Friedan.
0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:33.920
Puffer, Sheila
And she had written a book called The Feminine Mystique. She was an American from New York, I believe.
0:21:36.450 --> 0:21:47.90
Puffer, Sheila
There were many activities through that Year of the Woman at the university. One of those, one of the most prominent ones, was when Betty Friedan came to campus.
0:21:48.450 --> 0:21:49.570
Puffer, Sheila
And it was a sensation.
0:21:51.10 --> 0:22:1.570
Puffer, Sheila
She was so famous with that book and my mom had read that book when it first came out in the 1960s, quite a lot before that.
0:22:3.90 --> 0:22:7.370
Puffer, Sheila
So guess what? I invited my mom to come.
0:22:8.670 --> 0:22:18.750
Puffer, Sheila
And so she took the bus from Montreal, where my family was living, and she stayed with me. And we went to Betty Friedan together.
0:22:20.690 --> 0:22:21.170
Alex Bendall
Nice.
0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.80
Puffer, Sheila
And that means so much to me, yeah.
0:22:24.980 --> 0:22:25.180
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:22:24.630 --> 0:22:28.710
Puffer, Sheila
The fact that I remember seeing that book on my mom's night table.
0:22:31.290 --> 0:22:31.450
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:22:30.540 --> 0:22:36.100
Puffer, Sheila
And she read that when it came out, yeah. OK. So I think we've covered feminism.
0:22:37.940 --> 0:22:39.820
Puffer, Sheila
OK, what else have you got for me?
0:22:39.710 --> 0:22:40.70
Alex Bendall
Alright.
0:22:44.300 --> 0:22:44.340
Alex Bendall
N.
0:22:50.660 --> 0:22:51.260
Alex Bendall
So.
0:22:52.820 --> 0:23:1.940
Alex Bendall
This is more of a bigger deal in the United States, but the Vietnam War was going on then. What did the student body in Ottawa think about that?
0:23:8.990 --> 0:23:13.30
Alex Bendall
What was the general perception from Canadian students of the Vietnam War?
0:23:18.420 --> 0:23:28.820
Puffer, Sheila
You know, I actually went to two universities before I went to the University of Ottawa. I started out at Saint Mary's University in Halifax in 1969.
0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:38.440
Puffer, Sheila
And it was a male university with only 2000 students. It was the first year that they accepted women, and there were 200 women.
0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:40.400
Alex Bendall
All.
0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:41.480
Puffer, Sheila
Among those men were draft dodgers from the USA. I remember them.
0:23:48.420 --> 0:23:48.500
Alex Bendall
Oh.
0:23:49.390 --> 0:23:49.590
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
0:23:51.610 --> 0:23:53.370
Puffer, Sheila
And so that was my introduction to.
0:23:54.690 --> 0:24:2.10
Puffer, Sheila
I was face to face with the Vietnam War there in 1969-70 in Halifax, right.
0:24:3.520 --> 0:24:7.800
Puffer, Sheila
No draft dodgers came to Laurentian University in Sudbury that I had discovered.
0:24:9.240 --> 0:24:12.760
Puffer, Sheila
And I don't recall meeting any at the University of Ottawa either.
0:24:14.940 --> 0:24:25.620
Puffer, Sheila
And you know, I wasn't particularly political. I was so deeply into international things, languages and different cultures.
0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:26.640
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:24:26.940 --> 0:24:28.20
Puffer, Sheila
I just remember.
0:24:29.740 --> 0:24:44.300
Puffer, Sheila
Every week in Time magazine there were just horrendous photos of the Vietnam War. It seemed every week it was a horrible thing. But no, I wasn't out protesting. I wasn't part of any groups involved in that, and I have no recollection of that at the University of Ottawa.
0:24:58.250 --> 0:24:58.650
Puffer, Sheila
No, I don't.
0:24:54.210 --> 0:25:0.10
Alex Bendall
Like no recollection of any protests at all at UOttawa. Oh OK, interesting.
0:24:59.790 --> 0:25:1.270
Puffer, Sheila
There were, but they were not part of my memory bank. Yeah, 'cause I didn't participate. Oh, yeah.
0:25:10.930 --> 0:25:11.450
Alex Bendall
All right.
0:25:18.670 --> 0:25:18.830
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:25:21.50 --> 0:25:21.810
Alex Bendall
OK so.
0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:32.280
Alex Bendall
My next question is that some youth culture voice from the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs.
0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:39.360
Alex Bendall
Again, you don't have to answer any question if you don't want to, but to what extent? Recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s?
0:25:40.850 --> 0:25:42.210
Puffer, Sheila
Oh, I have no idea.
0:25:45.270 --> 0:25:45.950
Alex Bendall
All right.
0:25:44.490 --> 0:25:46.290
Puffer, Sheila
Wasn't into it, no.
0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:49.160
Alex Bendall
All right, moving on.
0:25:48.270 --> 0:25:51.190
Puffer, Sheila
I wouldn't know. I wouldn't. I didn't know many students who took drugs or smoked weed or anything. I barely knew what it smelled like, you know, marijuana. No.
0:26:4.690 --> 0:26:6.570
Puffer, Sheila
I was having way too much fun without that.
0:26:9.450 --> 0:26:9.610
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
0:26:10.690 --> 0:26:11.50
Alex Bendall
All right.
0:26:16.100 --> 0:26:18.980
Alex Bendall
I still have a few more, like feminism questions.
0:26:25.330 --> 0:26:25.610
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:26:21.270 --> 0:26:26.390
Puffer, Sheila
Do you ask these of oh, you only have if you're only interviewing me. But men would be asked these questions too.
0:26:27.570 --> 0:26:27.890
Puffer, Sheila
Right.
0:26:29.700 --> 0:26:31.900
Puffer, Sheila
I wish my husband was here for you to ask.
0:26:28.250 --> 0:26:36.490
Alex Bendall
Yeah. Yeah, they would, yeah, they would. It's like a preset set of questions for everybody in my class. Yeah. All right.
0:26:38.270 --> 0:26:56.190
Alex Bendall
So in your own words, I mean, you already kind of gave me your view on how feminism helped you. But like what in more broader terms, the like feminism overall in Canada, in your own words, how, like, what did it signify in Canada in the early 1970s?
0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:4.200
Puffer, Sheila
Well, I was working and going to the university at the same time and there was a federal government report, and it was called the Commission on the status of the women, something like that.
0:27:20.100 --> 0:27:21.940
Puffer, Sheila
And so I was aware of that.
0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:34.240
Puffer, Sheila
It was a good thing because I thought it was a good thing because it was addressing issues.
0:27:36.0 --> 0:27:45.80
Puffer, Sheila
That government Commission report was addressing issues about the role of women in society and how inequalities in the workforce and access to education and childcare and so on could be addressed.
0:28:0.830 --> 0:28:0.990
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:28:4.560 --> 0:28:10.240
Puffer, Sheila
I read the report, I don't think very many people or many students did, but I did.
0:28:12.270 --> 0:28:16.990
Puffer, Sheila
I mean, look at where I've ended up in life, you know, I'm an academic.
0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:18.160
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:28:18.540 --> 0:28:21.60
Puffer, Sheila
I read stuff. I read, you know, boring stuff.
0:28:25.100 --> 0:28:25.420
Alex Bendall
OK.
0:28:28.770 --> 0:28:33.810
Alex Bendall
So, since gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today.
0:28:36.230 --> 0:28:43.270
Alex Bendall
Did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classrooms or social events compared to male students?
0:28:47.690 --> 0:28:47.770
Puffer, Sheila
Yup.
0:28:59.470 --> 0:29:13.310
Puffer, Sheila
Where I worked in the federal government, there was a lot of sexism and there was, you know, exploitation of women. I have a cute story, though, just in that we had an absolutely fantastic professor of Russian.
0:29:14.710 --> 0:29:15.70
Puffer, Sheila
And.
0:29:17.150 --> 0:29:29.270
Puffer, Sheila
You know, the custom in Russia, Ukraine, European countries in general is to call people by their last name.
0:29:30.460 --> 0:29:33.980
Puffer, Sheila
So one night in Russian class, he didn't hear me put the feminine ending on a verb.
0:29:51.890 --> 0:29:52.50
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:29:43.790 --> 0:29:56.750
Puffer, Sheila
I guess I had said it just kind of so he didn't hear it. It was not loud enough. And so he just shouted to me, “Skirt, Puffer, skirt!”
0:30:6.140 --> 0:30:6.420
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:30:1.710 --> 0:30:8.670
Puffer, Sheila
He wanted me to put that feminine ending on because I was speaking, and so I needed to add a feminine ending to the verb.
0:30:9.850 --> 0:30:12.370
Puffer, Sheila
It was the cutest thing. We all laughed.
0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:23.40
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:30:16.0 --> 0:30:31.400
Puffer, Sheila
Oh, you know, I don't go looking for discrimination. I don't. I just carry on and do what I want to try to accomplish, what I want to accomplish. And as you can see.
0:30:33.570 --> 0:30:37.170
Puffer, Sheila
I think it's just my own demeanor.
0:30:39.300 --> 0:30:50.740
Puffer, Sheila
There were actually mostly men in my MBA graduate classes. Sometimes I was the only woman in the class and I was the only English speaking person in the class.
0:30:55.510 --> 0:30:59.430
Puffer, Sheila
Because you could take your courses in English or French.
0:31:15.910 --> 0:31:16.70
Alex Bendall
Sure.
0:31:1.190 --> 0:31:24.350
Puffer, Sheila
Most of them. And so I challenged myself to take half of them in French. And these really nice young French speaking male students and the male professor said, “Well, why are you doing this in French? Why don't you just take the English section?” I said, “Because I'm gonna learn French and I want to learn the terminology in French and I want the challenge of that.” So people could recognize that I was, I was a little different.
0:31:25.580 --> 0:31:25.820
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:31:30.910 --> 0:31:32.350
Puffer, Sheila
Whereas in the workplace, in the early 70s, I worked for the Director of Personnel.
0:31:39.30 --> 0:31:40.70
Puffer, Sheila
I won't say where.
0:31:42.710 --> 0:31:44.510
Puffer, Sheila
And he introduced me to a male visitor to the office.
0:31:46.350 --> 0:31:48.350
Puffer, Sheila
I know this is hard for you to imagine, but think of.
0:31:49.540 --> 0:32:0.900
Puffer, Sheila
You know, me at your age and not the age I am now. And it was at the age of very short skirts and, you know, miniskirts and all that.
0:32:2.220 --> 0:32:13.140
Puffer, Sheila
Which was kind of weird. Well, in a sense. Oh, and then it was the burning of the bras. I remember that, too, was at that time I was there. Yeah. So a lot of bras were eliminated. And, you know, there weren't any such things as sports bras, which, you know, are a lot more comfortable. So anyway, this boss, somebody came in new to the office, a visitor.
0:32:29.610 --> 0:32:31.330
Puffer, Sheila
So, back to my boss.
0:32:32.810 --> 0:32:35.610
Puffer, Sheila
I was his assistant. I was not his secretary. I was at an administrative level. You know, that first rung in the hierarchy, and he introduced me to another man there. And he said, “Oh, and this is Sheila,” and gave my title. And then he said, “She's cute – and clever too.”
0:32:57.860 --> 0:33:18.140
Puffer, Sheila
I went home and I told my husband, 'cause I got married very young, and told him, “Can you imagine! This is what he said.” And we laughed about that for years. And my husband would say to me just for fun sometimes, you know, like 40 years old, he's like, “You know what? You're cute – and clever too.”
0:33:21.810 --> 0:33:22.450
Alex Bendall
That's awesome.
0:33:26.690 --> 0:33:27.130
Alex Bendall
Alright.
0:33:28.890 --> 0:33:35.330
Alex Bendall
What kind of programmes or departments or clubs where women are less accepted?
0:33:36.670 --> 0:33:37.470
Alex Bendall
From your experience.
0:33:38.290 --> 0:33:41.10
Puffer, Sheila
I don't know. I don't really. I didn't really join any clubs.
0:33:41.910 --> 0:33:42.230
Alex Bendall
Oh, OK.
0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:48.400
Puffer, Sheila
I just ran them. You know, I ran the Slavianski Bazaar club with my husband.
0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:50.960
Puffer, Sheila
And the professor.
0:33:54.40 --> 0:33:55.0
Puffer, Sheila
That was pretty equal.
0:33:56.420 --> 0:34:1.420
Alex Bendall
Did you get a lot of people in that club over the course of how long you? However long you ran it?
0:34:1.900 --> 0:34:3.420
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, we had it for a few years.
0:34:5.350 --> 0:34:6.390
Puffer, Sheila
We had a couple dozen.
0:34:7.280 --> 0:34:27.520
Puffer, Sheila
And again, you know, my husband was like me, only he had the advantage of being male. But he was so interested in different languages and cultures. That's obviously why we, you know, a big a big reason why we connected anyway.
0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:30.320
Puffer, Sheila
He and I.
0:34:33.220 --> 0:34:36.180
Puffer, Sheila
Well, let me see. I think there were two other non-Slavic people in the club.
0:34:41.650 --> 0:34:52.410
Puffer, Sheila
And so the people who took Slavic Studies courses, who took Russian, some of these people had emigrated from the Czech Republic. They had because in 1969, I think it was, there was the Velvet Revolution in the Czech Republic in what was it called then. And. And so people emigrated. And they wanted an easy credit.
0:35:7.860 --> 0:35:11.500
Puffer, Sheila
It was an easy course for them. We called them bird courses. What do you call them now?
0:35:13.370 --> 0:35:14.570
Alex Bendall
Fluffy courses.
0:35:16.100 --> 0:35:16.260
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:35:21.80 --> 0:35:21.480
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:35:14.820 --> 0:35:21.500
Puffer, Sheila
OK. And so they wanted those and they were forced to learn Russian growing up in the Czech Republic.
0:35:22.980 --> 0:35:23.620
Puffer, Sheila
And so.
0:35:25.420 --> 0:35:51.540
Puffer, Sheila
You know, they didn't speak very good Russian 'cause Czech and Russian have a lot in common, but they have a lot of things where you can really mess up if you're just lazy and don't seriously speak the language. So the point was, oh, I don't know. I shouldn't say that. Maybe there were about four or five English speaking people and a couple of French speaking people.
0:35:52.20 --> 0:36:8.180
Puffer, Sheila
I remember them now. Francoise Nadeau, Denis Genereux, Brenda Cuillard. Yep. And that's right. And then we had Bernard Julian, who was from Britain, and we had Rick Pinchuk and he was a Ukrainian refugee.
0:36:9.500 --> 0:36:12.580
Puffer, Sheila
So that club was mostly populated by non-native born Canadians.
0:36:21.270 --> 0:36:23.70
Puffer, Sheila
And we liked that, my husband and I.
0:36:26.50 --> 0:36:26.210
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:36:29.240 --> 0:36:36.520
Alex Bendall
All right. So my next section is the section about generational differences and.
0:36:39.90 --> 0:36:47.210
Alex Bendall
So to what extent did your generation believe that your parents’ notions like gender, family dating, et cetera were outdated?
0:37:3.970 --> 0:37:4.210
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:37:1.0 --> 0:37:4.920
Puffer, Sheila
That's the same values as our parents.
0:37:7.500 --> 0:37:13.940
Alex Bendall
Like you, you specifically or just. Did you feel like that was the case for your whole generation?
0:37:16.150 --> 0:37:23.270
Puffer, Sheila
To what extent did we accept or challenge our parents?
0:37:24.690 --> 0:37:29.250
Puffer, Sheila
Views on dating and gender differences like.
0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.560
Puffer, Sheila
Hmm. Don't know. Nothing really.
0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:42.920
Puffer, Sheila
And my husband and I had again sought out unusual people.
0:37:44.240 --> 0:37:47.400
Puffer, Sheila
On the campus? Yeah, you're getting the idea.
0:37:49.40 --> 0:37:50.80
Puffer, Sheila
There, you know, we found.
0:37:52.100 --> 0:37:53.180
Puffer, Sheila
My husband and I were so.
0:37:55.810 --> 0:37:57.530
Puffer, Sheila
We were so happy together.
0:37:59.40 --> 0:38:3.360
Puffer, Sheila
And we were so curious about people who are a little different.
0:38:4.790 --> 0:38:8.430
Puffer, Sheila
That we became friends with single people.
0:38:9.710 --> 0:38:11.150
Puffer, Sheila
And we would take them.
0:38:12.470 --> 0:38:28.990
Puffer, Sheila
You know on drives and, you know, we just had them hang out with us or whatever. And we had some male ones and we had some female ones. We had some couples. But I remember my husband saying, “You know, I think X is probably gay.”
0:38:30.190 --> 0:38:35.550
Puffer, Sheila
“And you know, and this other one is likely …”
0:38:37.70 --> 0:38:38.110
Puffer, Sheila
“To be, you know …”
0:38:39.950 --> 0:38:40.390
Puffer, Sheila
“Lesbian.”
0:38:42.370 --> 0:38:48.170
Puffer, Sheila
But we never asked them. We never did. We just were friends with them.
0:38:49.930 --> 0:38:54.90
Puffer, Sheila
But they didn't. They weren't people who had boyfriends, girlfriends, or anything.
0:38:55.890 --> 0:38:59.610
Puffer, Sheila
But we just found them really interesting and they became our friends.
0:39:0.360 --> 0:39:1.120
Alex Bendall
Make sense? Yeah.
0:39:3.480 --> 0:39:6.200
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah. Yeah, we didn't talk about that stuff.
0:39:9.30 --> 0:39:9.390
Alex Bendall
OK.
0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:13.840
Alex Bendall
As a follow up, did you feel?
0:39:15.490 --> 0:39:28.170
Alex Bendall
That the political system in Canada was like democratic, fair enough, responsive to the citizens’ needs or to like your generation's needs, do you think?
0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:30.120
Alex Bendall
Yeah. OK.
0:39:30.980 --> 0:39:32.420
Puffer, Sheila
Very, very liberal.
0:39:45.250 --> 0:39:45.570
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:53.120
Puffer, Sheila
Pierre Trudeau was the Prime Minister and he put in the whole bilingualism programme. I thought it was exceptional. Yeah. And I thought he really transformed society.
0:39:54.170 --> 0:39:55.970
Alex Bendall
Yes, definitely.
0:39:56.510 --> 0:40:3.510
Puffer, Sheila
Not just bilingualism, but as I said, the Commission on the Status, oh, that's what it was called, the Commission on the status of women.
0:40:5.750 --> 0:40:8.350
Puffer, Sheila
I pulled that out from 50 years ago.
0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:10.400
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:40:15.365 --> 0:40:20.445
Puffer, Sheila
I loved living in Ottawa. I just loved it. It was bilingual. You had all these international restaurants, because diplomats were there from different parts of the world. So my husband and I would go to African restaurants, we’d go to, you know, Greek restaurants. When Greek food wasn't that widespread. You get the idea. It was a really wonderful place to be interested in international things.
0:40:44.485 --> 0:41:0.845
Alex Bendall
Yeah. I guess with you being so interested in other cultures from around the world, it makes sense that you would like Pierre Trudeau so much, him being such a big part in, like creating Canada into a multicultural society, right?
0:41:1.315 --> 0:41:1.755
Puffer, Sheila
Yes.
0:41:2.365 --> 0:41:2.605
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:41:3.295 --> 0:41:4.255
Puffer, Sheila
And actually.
0:41:6.235 --> 0:41:8.75
Puffer, Sheila
While I was going to the university.
0:41:9.895 --> 0:41:18.575
Puffer, Sheila
One of the early jobs that I had after I was the administrative assistant to that Director of Personnel, then I became a Bilingualism Officer.
0:41:21.155 --> 0:41:29.995
Puffer, Sheila
At the National Capital Commission. It was just awesome because I tested people for their level of bilingualism. I gave them oral and written tests.
0:41:31.445 --> 0:41:32.925
Puffer, Sheila
And I have the cutest story.
0:41:34.485 --> 0:41:38.125
Puffer, Sheila
Again, I know, I was 20 years old. What do you know when you're 20?
0:41:40.725 --> 0:41:45.205
Puffer, Sheila
So I went to Gatineau Park.
0:41:46.675 --> 0:42:7.235
Puffer, Sheila
You know the people who took care of the grounds, and there were a lot. They mowed the lawns and so on and so forth. But they needed to be bilingual when tourists would come by or, you know, visitors to the park would come by. And they were all French speaking. And I was testing them and they had very little education.
0:42:8.395 --> 0:42:15.595
Puffer, Sheila
You know, they might have had a 6th or 8th grade education. They were the nicest people and they had worked there for years and years.
0:42:17.195 --> 0:42:28.315
Puffer, Sheila
I tested so I had my tape recorder. A big, big tape recorder like this. These are men, you know, in their 50s.
0:42:29.715 --> 0:42:30.995
Puffer, Sheila
And here I am, 20.
0:42:33.75 --> 0:42:41.555
Puffer, Sheila
They're all wearing their park uniforms and everything. They're all very clean and well groomed. I start with a written test. And one of the gentlemen looked kind of like a deer in the headlights.
0:42:42.245 --> 0:42:52.525
Puffer, Sheila
He said, “Excusez-moi, mademoiselle, mais j’ai oublie mes lunettes.” [I’m sorry, miss, but I forgot my glasses.]
0:43:8.75 --> 0:43:13.755
Puffer, Sheila
And then another person said, “Moi aussi.” [Me too.]
0:43:16.385 --> 0:43:16.545
Alex Bendall
OK.
0:43:16.875 --> 0:43:20.395
Puffer, Sheila
And it took me a moment until I realized they meant they couldn’t take the written test in English. So I said, “OK, we're not doing that test.”
0:43:29.605 --> 0:43:29.925
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:43:23.915 --> 0:43:31.275
Puffer, Sheila
They didn't need to really write in English anyway. It was just communicating verbally with the park visitors.
0:43:32.195 --> 0:43:40.595
Puffer, Sheila
So I mean, I had the most wonderful time with the bilingualism programme that Prime Minister Trudeau implemented. I met the most wonderful people.
0:43:42.45 --> 0:43:42.565
Alex Bendall
Nice.
0:43:44.315 --> 0:43:45.595
Puffer, Sheila
And I have great respect for them.
0:43:51.185 --> 0:43:53.505
Alex Bendall
All right. Well, I have one final.
0:43:55.425 --> 0:44:13.905
Alex Bendall
Section here before we end this interview, and so cultural historians have argued that the introduction of birth control, pill legalization of abortion and dissemination of the free ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s. Do you agree with this statement?
0:44:16.945 --> 0:44:19.945
Puffer, Sheila
You broke up a little bit there, Alex. Please repeat the question.
0:44:21.735 --> 0:44:37.375
Alex Bendall
Cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill, the legalization of abortion and the dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s.
0:44:38.675 --> 0:44:44.675
Alex Bendall
It's like, do you agree with that statement and what did the dating scene look like at UOttawa during the 1970s?
0:44:46.75 --> 0:44:47.835
Puffer, Sheila
Yes, it changed dating practices.
0:44:49.215 --> 0:44:52.175
Puffer, Sheila
I think women felt a lot, a lot more in control.
0:44:53.385 --> 0:44:53.705
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:44:53.445 --> 0:44:56.885
Puffer, Sheila
And there was more sexual freedom as a result of that.
0:44:58.615 --> 0:45:4.135
Puffer, Sheila
And then, of course, I met my husband as soon as I came on campus.
0:45:6.175 --> 0:45:6.255
Puffer, Sheila
Uh.
0:45:28.425 --> 0:45:28.665
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:45:7.115 --> 0:45:34.75
Puffer, Sheila
Ah, well, I started in, you know, September and I met him on January 5th, 1972. So I only had one semester of just going on dates. Right. And then I met my husband and that was it. So yeah, I'm not a good representative of dating for, you know, for my four years of college.
0:45:35.435 --> 0:45:36.315
Puffer, Sheila
Dating other people.
0:45:37.315 --> 0:45:38.235
Alex Bendall
That makes sense, yeah.
0:45:41.595 --> 0:45:43.835
Alex Bendall
All right, well.
0:45:43.875 --> 0:45:47.635
Alex Bendall
That's really all I have for the questions that I have written down here.
0:45:48.975 --> 0:45:51.375
Alex Bendall
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about or say?
0:45:51.625 --> 0:45:56.825
Puffer, Sheila
Oh, that's so nice of you. No, but I'll just tell you one very, very nice thing.
0:45:58.305 --> 0:46:13.945
Puffer, Sheila
Not as nice as some of the other things I've told you, but I've lived in Boston here for a long time. I've lived in the United States since I got. Well, I came here for my PhD. Thanks to those two professors. All right, Jacques and Michel, and my husband.
0:46:16.345 --> 0:46:21.865
Puffer, Sheila
And so living in Boston, I played in a rock band.
0:46:24.895 --> 0:46:25.455
Alex Bendall
Really.
0:46:22.725 --> 0:46:27.685
Puffer, Sheila
For fun for 20 years and yeah, just every Friday night we'd play.
0:46:35.935 --> 0:46:36.95
Alex Bendall
OK.
0:46:29.485 --> 0:46:37.605
Puffer, Sheila
And you know, we had young kids, all of us. We were in our 40s when we started. So it's a long time ago, right.
0:46:39.805 --> 0:46:53.645
Puffer, Sheila
So anyway, one night there was a new man who was a neighbor of the drummer and his wife, who was a singer. So this man kept showing up and he played a really nice bass guitar.
0:47:0.85 --> 0:47:24.485
Puffer, Sheila
And then after a couple of weeks, I learned that he was from Ottawa. Oh, really? OK. Turns out he and his wife went to Ottawa U at exactly the same time as undergraduates as my husband and myself. But we were up on Laurier Ave in the arts and business school, and they were in biology down the hill. We never met them while we were at Ottawa and then fast forward 25 years or something, and we met them in Boston, playing in a rock band together.
0:47:38.485 --> 0:47:39.285
Alex Bendall
That's crazy.
0:47:56.165 --> 0:47:56.285
Alex Bendall
Hi.
0:47:41.835 --> 0:47:56.435
Puffer, Sheila
And the rock band kind of dissolved during COVID. But we kept it together for 20 years, and I'm still friends with them. And they moved back to Ottawa a number of years ago.
0:47:57.415 --> 0:47:57.735
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
0:47:57.745 --> 0:47:58.945
Alex Bendall
What was your rock band called?
0:48:0.195 --> 0:48:1.315
Puffer, Sheila
Off the Record.
0:48:2.385 --> 0:48:3.185
Alex Bendall
Off the Record.
0:48:3.465 --> 0:48:12.225
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, we played all these rock tunes which we knew as originals when we were growing up.
0:48:13.365 --> 0:48:14.445
Puffer, Sheila
When we were teenagers, yeah.
0:48:15.305 --> 0:48:15.585
Alex Bendall
Yeah.
0:48:15.985 --> 0:48:17.905
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah, we played the Eagles and we played…
0:48:19.605 --> 0:48:23.805
Puffer, Sheila
Oh, we, of course. The Eagles and Rolling Stones and yeah.
0:48:25.85 --> 0:48:28.245
Alex Bendall
That's my favorite genre of music right there. That's what I listen to all the time.
0:48:28.845 --> 0:48:33.725
Puffer, Sheila
Really. Oh yeah, we loved it, but we, you know, we were the screaming fans back in the day.
0:48:37.275 --> 0:48:42.915
Puffer, Sheila
OK, really fun. I will. I would love to have the recording please.
0:48:43.885 --> 0:48:46.85
Alex Bendall
Absolutely no problem.
0:48:45.175 --> 0:48:47.935
Puffer, Sheila
OK so I am going to a comedy show now.
0:48:49.745 --> 0:48:50.625
Alex Bendall
Which comedy show?
0:48:51.115 --> 0:49:5.995
Puffer, Sheila
Well, it's an improv show, and I took an 8 week improv class this summer here in Boston, which was a blast. Really, really fun. So I'm gonna go and see the professionals do it.
0:49:7.65 --> 0:49:7.545
Alex Bendall
Nice.
0:49:7.955 --> 0:49:8.115
Puffer, Sheila
Yeah.
0:49:8.695 --> 0:49:9.455
Alex Bendall
Well, have fun.
0:49:9.745 --> 0:49:16.625
Puffer, Sheila
Thanks a lot. Alex, this is fun and yeah, I'll enjoy receiving the recording and the transcript and.
0:49:26.325 --> 0:49:26.765
Alex Bendall
All right.
0:49:18.145 --> 0:49:34.385
Puffer, Sheila
I will sign that form, but don't worry. It's perfectly fine. You can see I enjoyed myself and I had. I had really wonderful memories. Yeah. Oh, what I didn't tell you my husband's name, for heaven's sake. Because he graduated there. He got a master's in Slavic Studies and a PhD in Slavic Studies.
0:49:36.225 --> 0:49:40.545
Puffer, Sheila
And his name is Hugh Fraser. Fraser.
0:49:43.985 --> 0:49:45.585
Alex Bendall
Alright, thank you.
0:49:44.965 --> 0:49:52.365
Puffer, Sheila
There you go. I needed to get that in there. 'cause he's not around to be interviewed for the 70s, but he was there, I can guarantee.
0:49:53.165 --> 0:49:53.565
Alex Bendall
All right.
0:49:55.55 --> 0:49:57.55
Alex Bendall
Well, thank you very much. You too.
0:49:54.695 --> 0:49:58.975
Puffer, Sheila
Take care. Alright. Have fun. Right. Bye bye.
0:49:59.995 --> 0:50:0.235
Alex Bendall
Bye.