Sweet, Jeanne-Mance (interview)
Dublin Core
Title
Sweet, Jeanne-Mance (interview)
Date
2023/10/24
Format
(m4a), 39 minutes, 57 seconds
Language
English
Type
oral history
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Interviewer
Jeremy Lussier
Interviewee
Jeanne-Mance Sweet
Location
Temiskaming Shores
Transcription
00:00:02 --> 00:00:17
Jeremy Lussier: The date is October 24th, 2023. The time is 6 13 PM. This is an oral interview with Jeanne-Mance Sweet. The interviewer is Jeremy Lussier, and the topic is Life on Campus.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21
Jeremy Lussier: So, Madame Jeanne-Mance, what university did you go to?
00:00:23 --> 00:00:29
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Good evening, Jeremy. I went to Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario.
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32
Jeremy Lussier: And what years did you go to university?
00:00:32 --> 00:00:51
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: September 1974, and graduated for the one-year course, as a teacher at. They used to call it “Ecole normale”, which is a teacher's college, graduated at the end of April 1975.
00:00:54 --> 00:01:00
Jeremy Lussier: and during your time in university, what did students do for fun on campus and around campus?
00:01:01 --> 00:02:16
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, during the year we had created a committee. And in order to make - I won't say the school was boring - but to make it more interesting, we organized a play, and it was Blanche-Neige and the 7 Dwarves, and we, we gathered in a committee, and we played all roles. I was the witch. So, and we went to perform in different schools in Sudbury area, and in surroundings the University allowed us to do so. That was a great big excitement. It was the most exciting things, thing that happened then, and of course, through the program since I was becoming a teacher. I was sibling educational courses, and we had to do also a, um, development, for from a child from 0 to 4 years old, and, uh, I had a case, and I studied that case for the full year. That was the most interesting that I really enjoyed in the University.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:26
Jeremy Lussier: Sounds fun. Um, what popular hangout spots were there on campus for other things that happened on campus?
00:02:28 --> 00:03:21
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, there used to be what they used to call the Friday night gathering. Uh, the, the, the pub. And you had the choice to attend or not to attend. Um, and it was fun it was, of course, the music was then the oldies from uh you know, like, like, like Donny Osman, Elton John, Lyne and Richie, you know these old folks. And uh of course uh, we used to dance. There used to be different types of dances that uh allowed us to become uh not blind dancing, but they had like moves that the performers did, and we mimicked them. And that was quite, quite fun, actually.
00:03:24
Jeremy Lussier: So, did you-
00:03:25
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: So that was a refrain.
00:03:28
Jeremy Lussier: Sorry?
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Sorry. It was every Friday night.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33
Jeremy Lussier: Did you participate every week?
00:03:34 --> 00:03:45
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, no, I had - I was a serious, uh, student. So, therefore, I used to go maybe once a month. It was good enough for me.
00:03:48 --> 00:04:03
Jeremy Lussier: Um, so, in today's culture at university, we use the term party culture as, um, culture within parties and such. So wha- how would you describe your party culture on campus in 1974?
00:04:06 --> 00:04:51
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, unfortunately, there were people that were always abusing the system, which that's why I never went much. Marijuana was not legal then, and some people were using it, and I didn't want to be in that game. But, therefore, they were very intelligent people, nevertheless, it's just that the way I was brought up was to be serious. If you want to become somebody in life, you gotta be serious. Gotta be dedicated in your work skills. And that's what I followed. So therefore, the parties, uh, to me were number two on the list, not number one.
00:04:53
Jeremy Lussier: And-
00:04:52 --> 00:05:01
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: On the campus, well, you, you could go anytime you want right? On the Fridays. So nope, not for me.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:10
Jeremy Lussier: To what extent were recreational drugs, like marijuana that you mentioned, uh, to what extent were these drugs available on campus?
00:05:11 --> 00:06:06
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, I never fetched for any therefore I don't know where they got it, but they even had stronger stuff. I remember there used to be a liquid that they used to say that they used to buy them for $50, uh, an ampoule, a little glass container there, and they used to be stoned all weekend like from Friday till Monday. Uh, so, that was really strong. And of course, there used to be I don't remember the drug that they sniffed with the powder. They used to take that, too, some of them. But they wouldn't - didn't want to get caught, of course, and it was a whole “Hush! Hush!” I never revealed any of my friends that used to do it, because they were still, like I said, very intelligent. It's just that they wanted to have this type of fun. It was not for me.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:36
Jeremy Lussier: And the music of the era. You've already mentioned some of the musicians that played at the parties that you went to, that you mentioned. But Rock and Roll in the 1960s came about quite strongly. So, did your generation's parents, so your parents’ generation, did they see Rock and Roll as more of a rebellious form of music or more of a new thing for your generation?
00:06:36 --> 00:07:37
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, my parents were old, old, because we are 11 in our family. I'm number 11, my mum. Conceived me when she was 41, had me when she was 42. My dad was 46. Therefore Rock and Roll, then, my mum was a high-spirit girl. She loved music, so she accepted any type of music, and my dad was more conservative but he went along with my mom. So therefore I would say that Rock and Roll was okay at our house. It was quite well accepted. And, and we had these little things here. Those are not CDs. They're 45s, and my mum loved - she enjoyed this type of music that I bought, and there are Rock and Roll songs in there, too. and she enjoyed that.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:49
Jeremy Lussier: So, in the 1970s, there was a lot of global events happening with the Cold War. Um, one of these was the Vietnam War, 00:07:49 Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yes.
00:07:50-00:07:59
Jeremy Lussier: which ended around 1974. So, what did the student body think of this? Of the Vietnam war?
00:07:58 --> 00:08:58
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, we did have one of our nephews that attended that war, and the students like I used to be on the counselling, too, at the school, and uh they used to be um quite scared, because you don't know when the the war will end. And uh when it ended in 1974, it kind of changed the whole system because people were more receptive. They wanted peace. They wanted, uh, they wanted to have, uh, more, uh, positive relationship with, with partners, with colleagues, with students, with, you know. And we used to have these signs, peace and love. That's what we used to - every time we met someone we used to say, “Hey, good morning,” like we just wanted the peace. And that's how it deflects from uh the Vietnam war.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:06
Jeremy Lussier: And how did that - how did that affect life on campus to a greater extent?
00:09:07 --> 00:09:52
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: To a greater extent I think that people started to realize that we are kind of equal, whether you're a man or a woman, whether you're a, a boy or a girl. This started, I think, that it made people realize that the importance in life is to have a team work. Like, when when my husband and I got married, it was the same thing. We wanted to have 50-50. It was not like the old days, the man overruled. And, uh, the woman used to be like the slave, sort of speech. So I think that's what happened. We started to be wanting more peace and more love around, surrounding us.
00:09:55 --> 00:10:13
Jeremy Lussier: So you mentioned equality between men and women. The feminism movement in the 1970s was something that was growing into what it is today. How, how do you think the, uh, feminism movement affected life on campus in the 1970s?
00:10:14 --> 00:12:25
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In the 1970s. Well, I'll tell you one thing. The religion courses that I took. Excuse me. There's okay. The relevant courses that I took was only taught by men. Uh, because then, Catholic religion are were really strong on the male presence. So there were no courses, religion courses, with a woman teaching. But, if you look at the overall, I think it helped to realize that it's not who presents. It's how they present. and I think that created - the year after I heard that the religion course was done by a woman, so I think it had an inflection about how the University perceived, um, how the University perceived the, uh—I got messages sorry. Uh, uh, the, how the University perceived that - the equality between a man and a woman. It started to be more because in the university you saw more men teaching than women only in the occasi- only in our, uh, Ecole Normale, which, uh, Faculté des sciences de l'éducation, now, there was a few more women, which was great because we thought it would have been only man. We were surprised when we got, uh, to the, uh, university to see women teaching, which was great to see. It started then, in 1974, a lot of women were teaching, uh, uh, students how to become teachers.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13
Jeremy Lussier: In universities, specifically, that women began teaching?
00:12:14 --> 00:12:28
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was like I told you in the Ecole Normale, which is a substitution of on the campus of Laurentian University. So, yeah.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:39
Jeremy Lussier: So, that would be on a on a grander scale, on a university scale. But, in your own words, what did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970?
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: What did, pardon me?
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45
Jeremy Lussier: What did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s?
00:12:47 --> 00:14:19
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, the hippies made a big difference, uh, in the women's status, with the equality. Um, like we used to buy uh, I think- Personally, I used to support their theory and I used to buy these necklaces that have that peace, you know the “Y”. I don't know if you’ve ever seen those. Anyways, I used to have their rings. I bought the that my husband, my boyfriend, then a ring to to say that we are supporting the fact that women and men are equal in - equal in in the different aspects. Of course you can say economically, you can say family wise, you can say you know, different domains. But in overall the women started to have a meaning. And I think, like you said the the wars, um, the 1945 war, and the Vietnam War helped that fact, and then the Hippies came along and they started to protest all over the world. Um, and to become one, to become, uh, in - to become a man and a woman. And that has equality in speech, equality in saying, equality in, in different, like, variety of, of domains.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:37
Jeremy Lussier: would that include equality in the classrooms and at different social events at University, so were women given different treatment and expectations in classrooms and other social events around university?
00:14:39.170 --> 00:15:52
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: There was still, there was still more favoritism to men than women then, not, not depending, you know, depending the personality of the teacher. If he was a perceptive person, there was no problem. He saw the world as being equal. But if you had a you know, a Demisebriggs evaluation. If you had a teacher, a male teacher that used to be a, uh, more of a judging. Well, then, women had a bad spot in their class. They were not received as welcomed as men. And you could tell. But, in the majority of the classes that I attended I was lucky. There was only one that was prejudiced. The rest were pretty good. And I think it's because of all these, like I told you, the wars and also the hippies that made a difference. In the world, not only in Sudbury.
00:15:53 --> 00:16:09
Jeremy Lussier: Um, so, because of the different prejudicial teachers that could be at the University, were there any programs or departments, or clubs where women were less present and accepted than men were?
00:16:12 --> 00:18:21
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, I have a little bit of difficulty answering that, since I never went fully on the campus. But I know, uh, for a fact, uh, that some of my friends that went, uh, full-time to university after they left the teacher's college and went back to university. Um, they they were a claim that there were still a little, again, more favouritism with a, with a male than women, but it kind of changed like I said in 1980 everything was almost equal. Everybody was treated fairly. But what we learnt in, I know that it might be off track, but what we learnt in the the courses that we took for the education. Uh, the books, children's books, that were favourited, favourit - like giving the image of a woman as a in the kitchen, the women that used to take care of the children, the women that used to only , uh, uh, do the the laundry and the gardening. It started to change. We had to throw all these books out. And we started to use new textbooks for kids that you saw a man holding a child, a man in the kitchen, a man doing chores. Just the change, the atmosphere, and just the change also these prejudices that women belongs in the kitchen and listening to the man all the time. Which uh, which was in the 1970, pretty strong still then. Some women didn't stay married more than 10 years because they couldn't stand the fact that they couldn't get their image. They had to do what he said.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:37
Jeremy Lussier: So how did your generations’ views, and notions about gender and family, and everything you've just mentioned - how did your generation's views on those things differ from your parents’ generation?
00:18:40 --> 00:20:35
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well on, again, because of the peace and love we- the father, had a very strong image when I was young. And, um, the straps, the abuse was allowed to control the children. Well, of course I can imagine being 11 in the house could have been a little bit of a turmoil, but, needless to say, the straps or the the straps are the and on the farm, we used to be the hose, you know, hitting people. Hitting my brothers and sisters. I was the eleventh so I, I never got hit much, only with fly swatter, maybe, but nothing else. But what I perceive is that in our generation we didn't allow that, like my husband and I, we didn't want to spank. We wanted to reason the children. and I think again, that is, from the era of the 1970s that changed the outlook of the raising that I had from my mum- Mum and dad. Any they were very lovable parents, don't take me wrong, but when things didn't go right, my father and my mom used to say, “Dad, this one didn't behave today” and boom, the strap was on. Uh, but we tried, my husband and I, to raise our 3 children with more comprehension of things they were doing wrong or right without hitting. And that's a big change because of the new era. So that's the difference. Hitting and not hitting. Trying to be reasonable and trying to reason the children.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:42
Jeremy Lussier: So, now, looking back on the 1970s.
00:20:43
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:52
Jeremy Lussier: What aspects of society did you see as more out of whack or in need of fixing than others?
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In the 1970s…that was out of whack
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09
Jeremy Lussier: That your generation thought needed changing, um
00:21:11
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, yes.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13
Jeremy Lussier: from what your parents’ generation did.
00:21:14 --> 00:23:19
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, yes. and that's that's why, when my husband and I went out together for 5 years prior to marriage. And of course I went to Sudbury University, he went to Brampton Sheridan College. So we had a communication, and he had seen another version of the world. Um, and we, we said to each other, like when we are gonna get married. We're gonna be a teamwork. We're gonna be the 50-50. But- and it worked like, I mean, still, these days, like, you know. I do, I do construction work, and my husband does kitchen work, and, you know, we do all kinds of stuff together, of course. The children are all gone. So we do, we do. We are good teamwork. So that's what we learn from the 1970s. But the exaggeration was, it's- because I am a perceptive person, I don't like rebellion, so I didn't like the fact that they Woodstock, uh, the hippies, then. The Hippies are the ones that are really stroked. That made me feel like, “Oh, my God, they're too much!” They're just lying there smoking dope and, and stuff, uhh. We could see on TV then. They were rebellious then, and I didn't like the way they did it. Um, like, get a life. Go home at night, you know. Don't stay on the grass. I know it was summer then, but that really mentally affected me. But I really supported their theory. I think that was overexaggerated. Like, there must be other ways to rebuild and to have these type of millions of people lying on the free grass like, hello? Anyways, it’s my opinion. Um, but therefore they made such a good change in life, though.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:37
Jeremy Lussier: What, what uh, in Canada Canadian society during the 1970s, what principal forms of injustice would you say were in society at that time?
00:23:41 --> 00:25:30
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Uh, injustice in a society? Well, you could. You could always see people, people that were, uh, aggressive, and people that were overdrinking people that-I remember going to different bars, and in here in Temiskaming Shores, then it used to be New Liskeard, and people used to fight, you know, all of a sudden around, you know, after everybody was having a whole bunch of fun. All of a sudden everybody was going outside to see these guys fight. Usually, it was guys. I only seen once women pulling their hair and fighting. That I didn't, again, I did not like, because my personality is not like that, but I think that was one, overdrinking. Makes you, makes you do things that really shouldn't happen. And the other thing, again, was the drugs. The drugs were really bad in our area, then. In a little town close to us, there used to be a dealer, and he used to sell bad stuff. People were so sick. And, uh, that's in the 70s. So the most traumatic things for me was the drugs, and overdrinking and, and, uh, the fighting. I didn't like the fighting because I was there to have fun. There was a nice discotheque. Everybody was dancing and having fun, and I'll suddenly see this. These people going outside, blood flying all over the place. I cannot stand it.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:37
Jeremy Lussier: So did this happen at the University’s parties on Friday nights?
00:25:38 --> 00:26:39
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: No, no, actually only girlfriend and boyfriend spat, you know they would, they would say, “Oh, man, you're dancing with her more than me”, and stuff like that, you know. I didn't have that problem because I didn't go to dance with anybody else but other girls, then, we were allowed. Oh, and that was something new. In 1970s. The girls were allowed to dance together. Before it would have been tabooed. “No, no, no, no, it's only men and women that's it.” So that saved me from all these people with, that used to have quarrels of the, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend stuff. So, no, in the university. There was no fighting. They would have been kicked out of their residential area. They would have. It was a no tolerance for fighting.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:58
Jeremy Lussier: In the 1970s. Did you feel that the political system of either Sudbury or Ontario or Canada as a whole - did you feel like it was democratic, fair, and responsive to citizens needs, whatever those might have been?
00:27:00 --> 00:29:16
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In 1974. That's 50 years ago. Let me see now, what what was the political? I don't recall anything, anything that was harmful, really. Oh, I'll tell you. There was an unfairness concerning, you know, loans and grants when you went to university. My parents were poor and my husband's parents were poor also. Well, I mean they had food on the table. They both work, but what I mean to say, they didn't have millions of dollars in the bank. So there used to be, uh, they used to allow, government used to allow grants and loans. So grants you don't have to pay, loans you have to pay back. So needless to say, this girl that her parents had businesses, and she was really, really well off. She got like $5,000 to go to university. I got $1,200. My husband got 7, $600. So we thought, “Okay. So what they've done is, they put expenses of their business, and she's got a whole bunch of money.” You know what I mean? So that was not fair, economically. So, uh, needless to say, that's one thing that I remember that I was really mad, because I thought “her parents, they have a great big mansion, they have 4 or 5 businesses, and she's got that much money, and she's bragging about it, and here I am with $1,000, and I have to pay back.” I had no grants. And she had grants besides. So that, really I remember that because it really, I thought it was unfair. So again, it was the way that the papers were done. So that's the only economic situation that I can remember politically. That was incorrect.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:26
Jeremy Lussier: Do you remember any political things that you found unfair or fair, that aren't economic?
00:29:29 --> 00:29:45
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Uhh, no, I don't. Actually I, I cannot recall any events I woud- not remember. I don't remember enough. I'm so sorry, I can't.
00:29:46 --> 00:30:05
Jeremy Lussier: That's okay. So, cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the Birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and dissemination of the “free love” ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s. Do you agree with that statement? And what are your thoughts on it?
00:30:07 --> 00:32:16
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, yes, it did made an impact. Um, there's a lot of people, all my friends, actually, they they used to take the Birth control pill. Because of my religion, I never did. Well, when I got married I started, but my body rejected it, so I never took, never took the pill ever. So, therefore, but they used to. Yes, it did, it did have an impact. Every - like, there's a lot of my friends that used to have many boyfriends at the residence. I didn't find that right, uh, but was none of my business to say. Um, and you see, the girls I knew. I don't know anything about the boys. Because I didn't hang around enough with the boys to find out. And how they were behaving sexually or economically, or whatever. And in the old days the, the men used to have to pay for - if you go to the movies the man used to pay. Well, in our generation, no. When we went to the movies we knew that we were both students. With, my husband would come, with my boyfriend then, would come and visit. He would not be able to stay where I was, which it was into a private home. I only have a room. And he was able to come and visit, but, really, he was not able to stay, so he used to stay in at a friend's place or stuff, and if we went to the movies, he paid his, uh, his entrance, and I paid my entrance. We used to go Dutch. Um, saying we paid each our own. So that I remember. Free love. Yeah! It was free love! Oh, my goodness! I could not believe what I've seen. But, most of the time, myself, I didn't practise that, because, again, I was too Catholic. I was raised severely.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:27
Jeremy Lussier: So you've already touched on this a little bit. But how did dating look on campus during the 1970s compared to how it looked for your parents' generation?
00:32:30 --> 00:34:05
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah, the dating, the dating was bad. The dating was- some girls, like, some girls, were good. Some others-when I say girls, again, I'm sorry I don't mean to be prejudiced, but this, this is-these were some of my friends and uh, they used to tell us on the Monday what how much fun they had with this guy and this guy and this guy and oh, my God! My eyes went up in the air, and I thought, “Oh, oh, oh! They will have a disease”, and I would- don't they know that, you knowy they didn't have any frigging protections? But the dating, um, like I said, my husband and I went out 5 years. My mom and dad, comparing to them, they went out only for a year, and they got married. And mom then, was 24. My dad was 28, which was, which was quite exceptional then. She had to quit school in Grade 8 to take care of the 16 kids and the twins and stuff cause the grandpa was in a wheel chair. And my dad used to be a lumberjack, and he used to give his money that he earned to his family. So, the dating, for them, were shorter compared to us. But if you take into consideration we went to different places to study.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:12
Jeremy Lussier: So, how did family and marriage look with your generation?
00:34:15 --> 00:35:51
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Family. In the 9-19, we got married 1976. We built our home in 1978. Had the first child, 1980. There were no priests that came at the house to tell us to be prosperous and to, and to have children, compared to my mum and dad. The priests used to come once a month and give them hep if they didn't have any pregnancy on the go. And that's why I'm here, cause there's 4 years difference between the number 10 to me, number 11. That my mum felt guilty, and they started to be not as careful. And here I am. She had-so the dating were shorter in the old days. In our days they were longer. A lot of my friends did the same thing that lives in the Temiskaming Shores. They went to school, and they dated some, uh, for 2 or 3 years, and they then they let go of their relationship and got a new one, but nobody got married after a year. It was always a long term relationship. And the family was very important. Um, uh, but we waited until we were financially secured to start our family. And we just had no concept of, uh-only the calendar, that's all we used as a contraception method.
00:35:54 --> 00:36:11
Jeremy Lussier: So before the 1970, Anglophones and Francophones typically stayed secluded to dating each other. So, Anglophones dated Anglophones, Francophones dated Francophones. Did that change and how did that change in the 1970s?
00:36:12 --> 00:38:00
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Only man, you touched one of these sensible touch. My husband is English, I'm French. So it, it was um- But I have an older brother that got married to an English girl prior to me. So it started to roll in the eyes of my Mum and Dad. Yes, there was big rivalry between French and English then. But in the 19, again, with the hippies peace and love and stuff. A whole bunch of my friends were dating, girls or boys, French or English partners. And the lot got married as in English and French, but in my family-it's they were like resilient until they met, in a longer term, my boyfriend. And they realized, “oh, he's not a bad guy for an English guy,” you know. And, uh, one time-I'll tell you a little the episode that happened. We were married. We lived in a, an apartment before we built this home. And we were playing cards with my Mum and Dad. And we had neighbours that used to drink a lot, and they always came home drunk, and they made a whole bunch of noise when they came in. And we heard them because we were playing cards. Oh, my mum says, “never mind, it's only the English that are coming in, English people coming in they are always noisy,” and my husband looked at my mom, and she says, he says, “Mom. What did you say?” “Oh, my God, my darling, I'm so sorry!” But, yet, it was in the back of their minds still, English and French rivalry.
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It's it's a-
00:38:03-00:38:04
Jeremy Lussier: So it was-
00:38:05-00:38:06
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: yeah go ahead.
00:38:07 --> 00:38:09
Jeremy Lussier: Sorry. So it was
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah, it was-
00:38:11 --> 00:38:12
Jeremy Lussier: It was what?
00:38:13 --> 00:38:26
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was still then a little touchy, but they came along in 1980. Everything went fine, and in the 80s everything was so much better; between French and English people.
00:38:26 --> 00:38:30
Jeremy Lussier: So it was still there a little bit, but it was like getting better?
00:38:31 --> 00:38:41
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was getting better, and I would say, in the 70s it started to, yes. But before no, no, nobody used to date English people, nobody, or vice versa. Even when I went to a to my uh, my, my, my husband's family, same thing happened. They asked me a question, and I had a little bit of English, but you know only what you learn in school. And, uh, I was not understanding everything, and I'm sure you know, once they got to know me, they were okay, but at first I'm, I'm pretty sure they were pretty resilient. “Why, now, Lord, are you going to out with this girl? She's French. She can hardly speak English.” But it it all came through. Everything went well afterwards.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:38
Jeremy Lussier: Okay, well, that's all the questions that I have. So thank you for participating in this Life on Campus interview.
00:39:38 --> 00:39:40
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: You're welcome. And good luck in your project. You can use any anything that you want. I'm willing to help you out, to do the research.
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Jeremy Lussier: Thank you once again, and I hope you have a good evening.
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Thank you.
Jeremy Lussier: The date is October 24th, 2023. The time is 6 13 PM. This is an oral interview with Jeanne-Mance Sweet. The interviewer is Jeremy Lussier, and the topic is Life on Campus.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, Madame Jeanne-Mance, what university did you go to?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Good evening, Jeremy. I went to Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario.
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Jeremy Lussier: And what years did you go to university?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: September 1974, and graduated for the one-year course, as a teacher at. They used to call it “Ecole normale”, which is a teacher's college, graduated at the end of April 1975.
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Jeremy Lussier: and during your time in university, what did students do for fun on campus and around campus?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, during the year we had created a committee. And in order to make - I won't say the school was boring - but to make it more interesting, we organized a play, and it was Blanche-Neige and the 7 Dwarves, and we, we gathered in a committee, and we played all roles. I was the witch. So, and we went to perform in different schools in Sudbury area, and in surroundings the University allowed us to do so. That was a great big excitement. It was the most exciting things, thing that happened then, and of course, through the program since I was becoming a teacher. I was sibling educational courses, and we had to do also a, um, development, for from a child from 0 to 4 years old, and, uh, I had a case, and I studied that case for the full year. That was the most interesting that I really enjoyed in the University.
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Jeremy Lussier: Sounds fun. Um, what popular hangout spots were there on campus for other things that happened on campus?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, there used to be what they used to call the Friday night gathering. Uh, the, the, the pub. And you had the choice to attend or not to attend. Um, and it was fun it was, of course, the music was then the oldies from uh you know, like, like, like Donny Osman, Elton John, Lyne and Richie, you know these old folks. And uh of course uh, we used to dance. There used to be different types of dances that uh allowed us to become uh not blind dancing, but they had like moves that the performers did, and we mimicked them. And that was quite, quite fun, actually.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, did you-
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: So that was a refrain.
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Jeremy Lussier: Sorry?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Sorry. It was every Friday night.
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Jeremy Lussier: Did you participate every week?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, no, I had - I was a serious, uh, student. So, therefore, I used to go maybe once a month. It was good enough for me.
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Jeremy Lussier: Um, so, in today's culture at university, we use the term party culture as, um, culture within parties and such. So wha- how would you describe your party culture on campus in 1974?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, unfortunately, there were people that were always abusing the system, which that's why I never went much. Marijuana was not legal then, and some people were using it, and I didn't want to be in that game. But, therefore, they were very intelligent people, nevertheless, it's just that the way I was brought up was to be serious. If you want to become somebody in life, you gotta be serious. Gotta be dedicated in your work skills. And that's what I followed. So therefore, the parties, uh, to me were number two on the list, not number one.
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Jeremy Lussier: And-
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: On the campus, well, you, you could go anytime you want right? On the Fridays. So nope, not for me.
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Jeremy Lussier: To what extent were recreational drugs, like marijuana that you mentioned, uh, to what extent were these drugs available on campus?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, I never fetched for any therefore I don't know where they got it, but they even had stronger stuff. I remember there used to be a liquid that they used to say that they used to buy them for $50, uh, an ampoule, a little glass container there, and they used to be stoned all weekend like from Friday till Monday. Uh, so, that was really strong. And of course, there used to be I don't remember the drug that they sniffed with the powder. They used to take that, too, some of them. But they wouldn't - didn't want to get caught, of course, and it was a whole “Hush! Hush!” I never revealed any of my friends that used to do it, because they were still, like I said, very intelligent. It's just that they wanted to have this type of fun. It was not for me.
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Jeremy Lussier: And the music of the era. You've already mentioned some of the musicians that played at the parties that you went to, that you mentioned. But Rock and Roll in the 1960s came about quite strongly. So, did your generation's parents, so your parents’ generation, did they see Rock and Roll as more of a rebellious form of music or more of a new thing for your generation?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, my parents were old, old, because we are 11 in our family. I'm number 11, my mum. Conceived me when she was 41, had me when she was 42. My dad was 46. Therefore Rock and Roll, then, my mum was a high-spirit girl. She loved music, so she accepted any type of music, and my dad was more conservative but he went along with my mom. So therefore I would say that Rock and Roll was okay at our house. It was quite well accepted. And, and we had these little things here. Those are not CDs. They're 45s, and my mum loved - she enjoyed this type of music that I bought, and there are Rock and Roll songs in there, too. and she enjoyed that.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, in the 1970s, there was a lot of global events happening with the Cold War. Um, one of these was the Vietnam War, 00:07:49 Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yes.
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Jeremy Lussier: which ended around 1974. So, what did the student body think of this? Of the Vietnam war?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, we did have one of our nephews that attended that war, and the students like I used to be on the counselling, too, at the school, and uh they used to be um quite scared, because you don't know when the the war will end. And uh when it ended in 1974, it kind of changed the whole system because people were more receptive. They wanted peace. They wanted, uh, they wanted to have, uh, more, uh, positive relationship with, with partners, with colleagues, with students, with, you know. And we used to have these signs, peace and love. That's what we used to - every time we met someone we used to say, “Hey, good morning,” like we just wanted the peace. And that's how it deflects from uh the Vietnam war.
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Jeremy Lussier: And how did that - how did that affect life on campus to a greater extent?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: To a greater extent I think that people started to realize that we are kind of equal, whether you're a man or a woman, whether you're a, a boy or a girl. This started, I think, that it made people realize that the importance in life is to have a team work. Like, when when my husband and I got married, it was the same thing. We wanted to have 50-50. It was not like the old days, the man overruled. And, uh, the woman used to be like the slave, sort of speech. So I think that's what happened. We started to be wanting more peace and more love around, surrounding us.
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Jeremy Lussier: So you mentioned equality between men and women. The feminism movement in the 1970s was something that was growing into what it is today. How, how do you think the, uh, feminism movement affected life on campus in the 1970s?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In the 1970s. Well, I'll tell you one thing. The religion courses that I took. Excuse me. There's okay. The relevant courses that I took was only taught by men. Uh, because then, Catholic religion are were really strong on the male presence. So there were no courses, religion courses, with a woman teaching. But, if you look at the overall, I think it helped to realize that it's not who presents. It's how they present. and I think that created - the year after I heard that the religion course was done by a woman, so I think it had an inflection about how the University perceived, um, how the University perceived the, uh—I got messages sorry. Uh, uh, the, how the University perceived that - the equality between a man and a woman. It started to be more because in the university you saw more men teaching than women only in the occasi- only in our, uh, Ecole Normale, which, uh, Faculté des sciences de l'éducation, now, there was a few more women, which was great because we thought it would have been only man. We were surprised when we got, uh, to the, uh, university to see women teaching, which was great to see. It started then, in 1974, a lot of women were teaching, uh, uh, students how to become teachers.
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Jeremy Lussier: In universities, specifically, that women began teaching?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was like I told you in the Ecole Normale, which is a substitution of on the campus of Laurentian University. So, yeah.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, that would be on a on a grander scale, on a university scale. But, in your own words, what did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: What did, pardon me?
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Jeremy Lussier: What did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, the hippies made a big difference, uh, in the women's status, with the equality. Um, like we used to buy uh, I think- Personally, I used to support their theory and I used to buy these necklaces that have that peace, you know the “Y”. I don't know if you’ve ever seen those. Anyways, I used to have their rings. I bought the that my husband, my boyfriend, then a ring to to say that we are supporting the fact that women and men are equal in - equal in in the different aspects. Of course you can say economically, you can say family wise, you can say you know, different domains. But in overall the women started to have a meaning. And I think, like you said the the wars, um, the 1945 war, and the Vietnam War helped that fact, and then the Hippies came along and they started to protest all over the world. Um, and to become one, to become, uh, in - to become a man and a woman. And that has equality in speech, equality in saying, equality in, in different, like, variety of, of domains.
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Jeremy Lussier: would that include equality in the classrooms and at different social events at University, so were women given different treatment and expectations in classrooms and other social events around university?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: There was still, there was still more favoritism to men than women then, not, not depending, you know, depending the personality of the teacher. If he was a perceptive person, there was no problem. He saw the world as being equal. But if you had a you know, a Demisebriggs evaluation. If you had a teacher, a male teacher that used to be a, uh, more of a judging. Well, then, women had a bad spot in their class. They were not received as welcomed as men. And you could tell. But, in the majority of the classes that I attended I was lucky. There was only one that was prejudiced. The rest were pretty good. And I think it's because of all these, like I told you, the wars and also the hippies that made a difference. In the world, not only in Sudbury.
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Jeremy Lussier: Um, so, because of the different prejudicial teachers that could be at the University, were there any programs or departments, or clubs where women were less present and accepted than men were?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, I have a little bit of difficulty answering that, since I never went fully on the campus. But I know, uh, for a fact, uh, that some of my friends that went, uh, full-time to university after they left the teacher's college and went back to university. Um, they they were a claim that there were still a little, again, more favouritism with a, with a male than women, but it kind of changed like I said in 1980 everything was almost equal. Everybody was treated fairly. But what we learnt in, I know that it might be off track, but what we learnt in the the courses that we took for the education. Uh, the books, children's books, that were favourited, favourit - like giving the image of a woman as a in the kitchen, the women that used to take care of the children, the women that used to only , uh, uh, do the the laundry and the gardening. It started to change. We had to throw all these books out. And we started to use new textbooks for kids that you saw a man holding a child, a man in the kitchen, a man doing chores. Just the change, the atmosphere, and just the change also these prejudices that women belongs in the kitchen and listening to the man all the time. Which uh, which was in the 1970, pretty strong still then. Some women didn't stay married more than 10 years because they couldn't stand the fact that they couldn't get their image. They had to do what he said.
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Jeremy Lussier: So how did your generations’ views, and notions about gender and family, and everything you've just mentioned - how did your generation's views on those things differ from your parents’ generation?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well on, again, because of the peace and love we- the father, had a very strong image when I was young. And, um, the straps, the abuse was allowed to control the children. Well, of course I can imagine being 11 in the house could have been a little bit of a turmoil, but, needless to say, the straps or the the straps are the and on the farm, we used to be the hose, you know, hitting people. Hitting my brothers and sisters. I was the eleventh so I, I never got hit much, only with fly swatter, maybe, but nothing else. But what I perceive is that in our generation we didn't allow that, like my husband and I, we didn't want to spank. We wanted to reason the children. and I think again, that is, from the era of the 1970s that changed the outlook of the raising that I had from my mum- Mum and dad. Any they were very lovable parents, don't take me wrong, but when things didn't go right, my father and my mom used to say, “Dad, this one didn't behave today” and boom, the strap was on. Uh, but we tried, my husband and I, to raise our 3 children with more comprehension of things they were doing wrong or right without hitting. And that's a big change because of the new era. So that's the difference. Hitting and not hitting. Trying to be reasonable and trying to reason the children.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, now, looking back on the 1970s.
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah.
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Jeremy Lussier: What aspects of society did you see as more out of whack or in need of fixing than others?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In the 1970s…that was out of whack
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Jeremy Lussier: That your generation thought needed changing, um
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, yes.
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Jeremy Lussier: from what your parents’ generation did.
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Oh, yes. and that's that's why, when my husband and I went out together for 5 years prior to marriage. And of course I went to Sudbury University, he went to Brampton Sheridan College. So we had a communication, and he had seen another version of the world. Um, and we, we said to each other, like when we are gonna get married. We're gonna be a teamwork. We're gonna be the 50-50. But- and it worked like, I mean, still, these days, like, you know. I do, I do construction work, and my husband does kitchen work, and, you know, we do all kinds of stuff together, of course. The children are all gone. So we do, we do. We are good teamwork. So that's what we learn from the 1970s. But the exaggeration was, it's- because I am a perceptive person, I don't like rebellion, so I didn't like the fact that they Woodstock, uh, the hippies, then. The Hippies are the ones that are really stroked. That made me feel like, “Oh, my God, they're too much!” They're just lying there smoking dope and, and stuff, uhh. We could see on TV then. They were rebellious then, and I didn't like the way they did it. Um, like, get a life. Go home at night, you know. Don't stay on the grass. I know it was summer then, but that really mentally affected me. But I really supported their theory. I think that was overexaggerated. Like, there must be other ways to rebuild and to have these type of millions of people lying on the free grass like, hello? Anyways, it’s my opinion. Um, but therefore they made such a good change in life, though.
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Jeremy Lussier: What, what uh, in Canada Canadian society during the 1970s, what principal forms of injustice would you say were in society at that time?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Uh, injustice in a society? Well, you could. You could always see people, people that were, uh, aggressive, and people that were overdrinking people that-I remember going to different bars, and in here in Temiskaming Shores, then it used to be New Liskeard, and people used to fight, you know, all of a sudden around, you know, after everybody was having a whole bunch of fun. All of a sudden everybody was going outside to see these guys fight. Usually, it was guys. I only seen once women pulling their hair and fighting. That I didn't, again, I did not like, because my personality is not like that, but I think that was one, overdrinking. Makes you, makes you do things that really shouldn't happen. And the other thing, again, was the drugs. The drugs were really bad in our area, then. In a little town close to us, there used to be a dealer, and he used to sell bad stuff. People were so sick. And, uh, that's in the 70s. So the most traumatic things for me was the drugs, and overdrinking and, and, uh, the fighting. I didn't like the fighting because I was there to have fun. There was a nice discotheque. Everybody was dancing and having fun, and I'll suddenly see this. These people going outside, blood flying all over the place. I cannot stand it.
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Jeremy Lussier: So did this happen at the University’s parties on Friday nights?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: No, no, actually only girlfriend and boyfriend spat, you know they would, they would say, “Oh, man, you're dancing with her more than me”, and stuff like that, you know. I didn't have that problem because I didn't go to dance with anybody else but other girls, then, we were allowed. Oh, and that was something new. In 1970s. The girls were allowed to dance together. Before it would have been tabooed. “No, no, no, no, it's only men and women that's it.” So that saved me from all these people with, that used to have quarrels of the, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend stuff. So, no, in the university. There was no fighting. They would have been kicked out of their residential area. They would have. It was a no tolerance for fighting.
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Jeremy Lussier: In the 1970s. Did you feel that the political system of either Sudbury or Ontario or Canada as a whole - did you feel like it was democratic, fair, and responsive to citizens needs, whatever those might have been?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: In 1974. That's 50 years ago. Let me see now, what what was the political? I don't recall anything, anything that was harmful, really. Oh, I'll tell you. There was an unfairness concerning, you know, loans and grants when you went to university. My parents were poor and my husband's parents were poor also. Well, I mean they had food on the table. They both work, but what I mean to say, they didn't have millions of dollars in the bank. So there used to be, uh, they used to allow, government used to allow grants and loans. So grants you don't have to pay, loans you have to pay back. So needless to say, this girl that her parents had businesses, and she was really, really well off. She got like $5,000 to go to university. I got $1,200. My husband got 7, $600. So we thought, “Okay. So what they've done is, they put expenses of their business, and she's got a whole bunch of money.” You know what I mean? So that was not fair, economically. So, uh, needless to say, that's one thing that I remember that I was really mad, because I thought “her parents, they have a great big mansion, they have 4 or 5 businesses, and she's got that much money, and she's bragging about it, and here I am with $1,000, and I have to pay back.” I had no grants. And she had grants besides. So that, really I remember that because it really, I thought it was unfair. So again, it was the way that the papers were done. So that's the only economic situation that I can remember politically. That was incorrect.
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Jeremy Lussier: Do you remember any political things that you found unfair or fair, that aren't economic?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Uhh, no, I don't. Actually I, I cannot recall any events I woud- not remember. I don't remember enough. I'm so sorry, I can't.
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Jeremy Lussier: That's okay. So, cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the Birth control pill, legalization of abortion, and dissemination of the “free love” ideology changed gender relations and dating practices in the early 1970s. Do you agree with that statement? And what are your thoughts on it?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Well, yes, it did made an impact. Um, there's a lot of people, all my friends, actually, they they used to take the Birth control pill. Because of my religion, I never did. Well, when I got married I started, but my body rejected it, so I never took, never took the pill ever. So, therefore, but they used to. Yes, it did, it did have an impact. Every - like, there's a lot of my friends that used to have many boyfriends at the residence. I didn't find that right, uh, but was none of my business to say. Um, and you see, the girls I knew. I don't know anything about the boys. Because I didn't hang around enough with the boys to find out. And how they were behaving sexually or economically, or whatever. And in the old days the, the men used to have to pay for - if you go to the movies the man used to pay. Well, in our generation, no. When we went to the movies we knew that we were both students. With, my husband would come, with my boyfriend then, would come and visit. He would not be able to stay where I was, which it was into a private home. I only have a room. And he was able to come and visit, but, really, he was not able to stay, so he used to stay in at a friend's place or stuff, and if we went to the movies, he paid his, uh, his entrance, and I paid my entrance. We used to go Dutch. Um, saying we paid each our own. So that I remember. Free love. Yeah! It was free love! Oh, my goodness! I could not believe what I've seen. But, most of the time, myself, I didn't practise that, because, again, I was too Catholic. I was raised severely.
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Jeremy Lussier: So you've already touched on this a little bit. But how did dating look on campus during the 1970s compared to how it looked for your parents' generation?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah, the dating, the dating was bad. The dating was- some girls, like, some girls, were good. Some others-when I say girls, again, I'm sorry I don't mean to be prejudiced, but this, this is-these were some of my friends and uh, they used to tell us on the Monday what how much fun they had with this guy and this guy and this guy and oh, my God! My eyes went up in the air, and I thought, “Oh, oh, oh! They will have a disease”, and I would- don't they know that, you knowy they didn't have any frigging protections? But the dating, um, like I said, my husband and I went out 5 years. My mom and dad, comparing to them, they went out only for a year, and they got married. And mom then, was 24. My dad was 28, which was, which was quite exceptional then. She had to quit school in Grade 8 to take care of the 16 kids and the twins and stuff cause the grandpa was in a wheel chair. And my dad used to be a lumberjack, and he used to give his money that he earned to his family. So, the dating, for them, were shorter compared to us. But if you take into consideration we went to different places to study.
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Jeremy Lussier: So, how did family and marriage look with your generation?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Family. In the 9-19, we got married 1976. We built our home in 1978. Had the first child, 1980. There were no priests that came at the house to tell us to be prosperous and to, and to have children, compared to my mum and dad. The priests used to come once a month and give them hep if they didn't have any pregnancy on the go. And that's why I'm here, cause there's 4 years difference between the number 10 to me, number 11. That my mum felt guilty, and they started to be not as careful. And here I am. She had-so the dating were shorter in the old days. In our days they were longer. A lot of my friends did the same thing that lives in the Temiskaming Shores. They went to school, and they dated some, uh, for 2 or 3 years, and they then they let go of their relationship and got a new one, but nobody got married after a year. It was always a long term relationship. And the family was very important. Um, uh, but we waited until we were financially secured to start our family. And we just had no concept of, uh-only the calendar, that's all we used as a contraception method.
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Jeremy Lussier: So before the 1970, Anglophones and Francophones typically stayed secluded to dating each other. So, Anglophones dated Anglophones, Francophones dated Francophones. Did that change and how did that change in the 1970s?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Only man, you touched one of these sensible touch. My husband is English, I'm French. So it, it was um- But I have an older brother that got married to an English girl prior to me. So it started to roll in the eyes of my Mum and Dad. Yes, there was big rivalry between French and English then. But in the 19, again, with the hippies peace and love and stuff. A whole bunch of my friends were dating, girls or boys, French or English partners. And the lot got married as in English and French, but in my family-it's they were like resilient until they met, in a longer term, my boyfriend. And they realized, “oh, he's not a bad guy for an English guy,” you know. And, uh, one time-I'll tell you a little the episode that happened. We were married. We lived in a, an apartment before we built this home. And we were playing cards with my Mum and Dad. And we had neighbours that used to drink a lot, and they always came home drunk, and they made a whole bunch of noise when they came in. And we heard them because we were playing cards. Oh, my mum says, “never mind, it's only the English that are coming in, English people coming in they are always noisy,” and my husband looked at my mom, and she says, he says, “Mom. What did you say?” “Oh, my God, my darling, I'm so sorry!” But, yet, it was in the back of their minds still, English and French rivalry.
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It's it's a-
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Jeremy Lussier: So it was-
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: yeah go ahead.
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Jeremy Lussier: Sorry. So it was
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Yeah, it was-
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Jeremy Lussier: It was what?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was still then a little touchy, but they came along in 1980. Everything went fine, and in the 80s everything was so much better; between French and English people.
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Jeremy Lussier: So it was still there a little bit, but it was like getting better?
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Jeanne-Mance Sweet: It was getting better, and I would say, in the 70s it started to, yes. But before no, no, nobody used to date English people, nobody, or vice versa. Even when I went to a to my uh, my, my, my husband's family, same thing happened. They asked me a question, and I had a little bit of English, but you know only what you learn in school. And, uh, I was not understanding everything, and I'm sure you know, once they got to know me, they were okay, but at first I'm, I'm pretty sure they were pretty resilient. “Why, now, Lord, are you going to out with this girl? She's French. She can hardly speak English.” But it it all came through. Everything went well afterwards.
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Jeremy Lussier: Okay, well, that's all the questions that I have. So thank you for participating in this Life on Campus interview.
00:39:38 --> 00:39:40
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: You're welcome. And good luck in your project. You can use any anything that you want. I'm willing to help you out, to do the research.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:55
Jeremy Lussier: Thank you once again, and I hope you have a good evening.
00:39:56 --> 00:39:57
Jeanne-Mance Sweet: Thank you.
Original Format
Digital recording
Duration
39 minutes and 57 seconds
Collection
Citation
“Sweet, Jeanne-Mance (interview),” Life on Campus, accessed September 19, 2024, http://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/items/show/26.