G. George (Interview)
Dublin Core
Title
G. George (Interview)
Description
Testimonial bout University of Ottawa during the end of the 1970s
Date
2023-10-21
Language
English
Type
oral history
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Interviewer
Erik Galama
Interviewee
G. George
Transcription
Erik Galama 0:15
It’s the 21 of October the date or the time I should say is 1:15. I am, I the interviewer Erik Galama And I'm interviewing George over teams for the life on campus project.
So let's get started.
Alright.
So.
Ah, where do I put? There's questions. Alright, so is the first topic we are going over is pop culture.
So the.
The main Category here is or I say the main question is, cultural historians have argued that the television, Hollywood, popular music and consumer culture built around automobiles has created a more integral North American popular culture.
Um, as Ottawa or University of Ottawa is a bilingual institution? The purpose is questions are to better understand how anglophones and francophones relate together.
So the first question here is um.
So there was less electronics in Canada society in the 1970s compared to today.
How was a leisure time structured? Or how did OttawaU use students or what do use students do for fun in that time period?
George 1:40
That's the question?
Erik Galama 1:42
Yeah. So.
George 1:42
Do for fun.
Erik Galama 1:44
Yep, first one.
Yeah, for fun. So what, what was the like? What how was your leisure time structured? What was it built around? Was it?
I cause this was television still came more popular around this time. Most people would've had one. So was it built around? That was the other things.
George 2:09
(illegible) is always part of society nowadays or at that time too. Think work was also very important leisure time because I didn't have time for leisure time at university and then basically I work and I study. So I didn't have a lot of real quality leisure time available to myself.
Erik Galama 2:27
So you would say it's at least was for you was mostly structure around work and there wouldn't be a lot of time just for leisure.
George 2:37
Exactly exactly. I had to pay for my education, right? So I've been working basically all the time that I have free and then I have to study as well. So it's.
There was a much leisure time, as if we're called leisure time.
Erik Galama 2:51
All right, for follow up is that I'm so first the on campus itself.
If there was time, to be hanging out and stuff, what would be the most popular spots to people would be hanging out on or off campus?
George 3:09
If I hung out It would be. It would have been on campus because it would have been.
Probably near where my classes were being held. Would that be with my colleagues waiting them. Talk. Whatever is, are sticking to the corner 30 minutes away or something like that. Not as far as going outside the campus area, no.
Erik Galama 3:28
No. OK.
George 3:29
No.
Erik Galama 3:30
Uh, so next question, I don't know how much is applies to you, but during your years at university, did you ever attend a live musical event?
George 3:40
No.
Erik Galama 3:40
No.
Uh, where's your many are in Ottawa at that time for you to even attend if you wanted to.
George 3:49
Don't think I don't really recall like live ones? No, no.
Erik Galama 3:53
OK.
George 3:53
I think the UFT had a couple of smaller ones like some.
like in the cafeteria or something. A small local
like a student band or something like that, but that, that, that would be the closest to live entertain.
Erik Galama 4:07
All right.
Um, so OttawaU uses to be bilingual or
is bilingual institution.
Um.
That.
I.
Sorry, that question was written in broken English.
Oh yeah, so basically because OttawaU is a bilingual institution. There's many. There's a bunch of mixing in francophones and anglophones because they rolled the same university and courses. How much was like how?
How much was there mixing between anglophones and francophones? Or were they quite separate apart?
George 4:48
That's a good question.
What I could tell? I mean my classes were filled with both anglophones and francophones.
I don't really think it was really that easy to distinguish the two. They seemed to I I'm I'm basically anglophone, right? So I don't speak French.
Maybe.
It was a different, but the people I saw met or you got along pretty good together ang francophones.
Erik Galama 5:16
Alright, so you wouldn't say that.
There was like noticeable like separation between the two groups.
George 5:24
I did not see that. No, no.
Erik Galama 5:26
OK.
Next question actually relate to that is, did anglophones and francophones ever date each other?
George 5:35
You'd have to ask them individually, I guess, right?
Erik Galama 5:38
Yeah, fair enough. Well, from your own perspectives, did you see that?
George 5:41
that I don't, that I don't have any ideas.
Erik Galama 5:44
Then it is alright.
Um.
So in modern terms, to, we used the term party culture to refer to social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the party culture on university of ottawa during the 70s if you could?
George 6:01
First, I lived off at, at home, right? So that was like it's now work transit every day. About 2 hours back one way and those days. So I didn't have much time at all to partake in the party culture. Well there was party culture there, but I didn't take part. I just have to the time.
Erik Galama 6:04
All right.
George 6:17
How? How big it was? I don't really know. But there I know people that that's, that's all they talk about. But that would be the minority.
Erik Galama 6:25
OK.
Um.
Next is, so I during actually when you're at the university, the Vietnam War would be over. But generally speaking, how would you see the student body over like idea of the Vietnam War was it?
And like, how prevalent was anywhere that person? So how did the student body when you where there, view the Vietnam War or is the anti-war movement?
George 7:00
I don't recall it in my time period at all.
Erik Galama 7:03
No.
George 7:03
not a lot of university, no.
doesn’t seem part of the conversation.
But what I saw, maybe there's some people that are more involved in that and talking about it in their groups and even more to. not into the people that are associated with.
Erik Galama 7:18
Alright.
George 7:20
I think I think it was before my time at university anyway, so.
Erik Galama 7:20
I.
Yeah, it should have been, but I wasn't sure also how much bleed over there was.
George 7:27
Yeah.
Erik Galama 7:34
Uh.
That I so in the 70s, two rock'n'roll started to become more populous and a lot of art, rock and rollers in the 1960s have been promoted, promoted various forms of protest.
How did your parents or see rock roll as a rebellious like former music? Or was it just a form of popular music?
George 8:02
They didn't like it. I thought it was really poor quality and looking like the old music which people involved, right or technical skills and stuff like that. They didn't like it. I don't think they looked at as being rebellious. They just they'd like it.
Erik Galama 8:17
So they.
George 8:17
The other was more like, but then was just yelling and screaming.
That's really what it was. I don't think they really think about it being rebellious music or stuff with that.
Erik Galama 8:27
So they so they never thought it was rebellious, more as a they just didn't like the sound of it. Would that be correct?
George 8:36
I would say I was. I would say that's what it was. Yes, it's not what they grew up with and when it was such a different thing. Yeah.
You recognize that people look into that time so.
Erik Galama 8:46
Yep.
Um, follow-up is so so some culture voices In the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent did recreational drugs availability on campus occur during 1970s? So how common were drugs basically?
George 9:07
Was there but.
sorts of the people I hung around with. It wasn't not really there.
So there's probably a certain sub segments of the student body and not for the cluster body as well, but.
If it was not they.
Very, very minimal from what I saw.
Erik Galama 9:25
Alright, for reference, would you say it's be more as prevalent or less prevalent today, like in just general cult like public?
And like culture.
George 9:39
Probably probably less, I would say.
Erik Galama 9:42
That's alright.
George 9:43
Yeah, I think so. But it's it's.
It's a tough question.
Erik Galama 9:50
Next one sort of relating to the last question was.
So in the 70s.
psychedelics were coming more common use, to what extent did the students on campus use psychedelic drugs.
Or if any?
George 10:06
I I.
I made it.
I've been really answered that question. I mean, I know where stuff out there, but how much I've, you know, I I can't even take a guess at that that would be.
Erik Galama 10:12
Yeah.
George 10:17
Wrong thing to do. It's so small, small writes up, but maybe there's a whole segment of this to the population that was very heavily involved in it, but I would not in that group.
Erik Galama 10:26
OK.
Alright, so that is the first section done, which is the impact of popular culture. So this section section we're gonna get onto is the female experience. So as the main question there is.
Sorry is.
For culture, historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave of feminism. This is part of the counterculture movement and women in the 19 early 1970s sought to breakdown gender barriers during this.
Does this argument with your experience, or does this argument resonated with your experience on the campus during the 70s?
Um and also basically, do you believe that?
There was a large or a noticeable feminist movement on campus.
George 11:31
Hmm.
Either way, there was some of that you wouldn't say is like really noticeable anything, but you can see people becoming more sensitive to that whole notation.
Erik Galama 11:46
Uh, so would you say?
It was more prevalent.
Like the first few years there or did became more and more common. At the later you're.
George 11:57
I don't. I was only there for three years. I was not a perfectionist student like some people, so I can't really. I wanted to try to answer that one.
Erik Galama 12:02
Alright.
So you wouldn't have any idea if, uh, like so for like the first year is there, you have no clue if was more common than when you're by the time you graduated or left?
George 12:15
Yeah, like that was there to study them, went home to work, right. So I'm not socializing with a lot of people at the university, so I can't really property answer that question. Right. I didn't notice. I, I could. I can’t answer that. I didn’t notice the difference.
Erik Galama 12:24
All right.
OK. And also follow-up to that.
The time before you went to university, how would you say it was also common before that?
George 12:42
I would say it was about the same. Yeah, that's sort of run that time period, yeah.
Erik Galama 12:45
All right.
So in your own words, what did feminism like mean to Canada in the early 70s?
George 12:59
It was just think it was trying to.
Have recalled by of the the sexist or and recognition of the difference, but building equality.
Erik Galama 13:10
Alright.
George 13:10
A little more respect for each other, I guess is what it comes down to really.
Erik Galama 13:14
Hmm.
Uh.
OK. For two is so in the 70s.
Words are programs, apartments, clubs that were at were women were less.
Um, represent or less or more and less of compared to other programs.
George 13:35
Alright, if I look at the programs that I was in, I'd say it was a.
It wasn't really that much difference. I mean, maybe a little bit less women than men, but not really significant amount.
Erik Galama 13:47
What program?
George 13:48
Such steps, although my studies right, I mean that they go to school to study, didn't go there to going join clubs and stuff like that and have the time for it had to work for my fees to pay processors right to renting the building and stuff. So all I could talk about is my classroom and the classrooms were.
Erik Galama 13:53
Yeah.
Yeah.
George 14:03
Not much difference over people, even distributed. Maybe some less females than males, but not not a significant amount.
Erik Galama 14:10
Alright, I around.
I would program were you in.
So I can just get George, so I.
George 14:22
Commerce, commerce.
Erik Galama 14:22
Commerce, OK.
George 14:24
Yeah.
Erik Galama 14:24
So you'd say commerce was around a 50/50 split?
George 14:28
Yeah, a little bit less than 50/50, but it wasn't.
You're not looking like 80/20 or anything like that no.
Erik Galama 14:31
Alright.
OK, so it wasn't, it was quite evenly split originally not like a major difference.
George 14:39
No, I think it's rounded time when.
When we started getting more into those fields like we're talking about the late 70s.
Erik Galama 14:44
Hmm.
George 14:47
Not the beginning. At the moment, it's the movement already been underway for a while and.
Erik Galama 14:52
OK, I.
So you said you you're not sure about our programs you at all, so you wouldn't be able to tell for like engineering or you sent that?
George 15:02
No, no. I would like to talk about other programs. That's what I came to study and that's basically where I stayed.
Erik Galama 15:08
OK.
Uh.
So then it is for that's done for feminism. Next topic is on ideology, and like generational differences.
So many question here is historians have written a lot about what they called the counterculture revolution. That meaning means that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents, revolution or generation.
To what extent did people in your cultural or social circles seem cells as need to mobilize for more?
Just for more just society and the better world.
George 15:57
We don't know the like like, you know, I think that I think that this historians trying to write something on paper so they could get their this is approved.
Erik Galama 15:57
Yes.
George 16:05
Uh, I think that there was a lot of conversation about.
You know the way it was with our parents, right? And the way we wanted to have.
Erik Galama 16:12
Hmm.
George 16:14
I wouldn't hold like a rebellion and stuff like that. I think that just overstating it let me go to the movement for it. I guess in general, but because a lot of people realize that, you know the. Or our parents generation. They had a lot of good stuff going for them and we need to be changed in certain ways, but.
You know, it's just like it's like any generation. I mean, you talked about my generation. You gonna talk about the Ask the same question about your generation and you'll find it. It's basically the same answers. It all changed, right? I mean, every generation wants to change from the preceding generation. Doesn't mean that the generation thinks that preceding generation was.
Erik Galama 16:39
Hmm.
George 16:49
Was bad or wrong, it's just a different way. They want to look at thinking different way before every setback maybe be more open mind or something and you know, next generation gonna say maybe we should be more close minded. It says it's a cycle that goes through.
Erik Galama 16:49
Hmm.
George 17:02
So yeah, that was part of the conversation.
Erik Galama 17:02
OK.
So you said it be part conversation. You just wouldn't say it be like a dramatic change. It was more smaller changes.
George 17:10
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's more realistic. It was there. People talk about it and and stuff like that, but it wasn't getting into rebellion. Finding stuff like the like the refresh. Wanna stay sometimes? No, I don't think that's what the case at all. At least not with environment that I was in.
Erik Galama 17:12
OK.
OK.
So yeah, so far for that is so to.
What extent, I guess, did your generation believe in your parents like ideals of gender, family and dating? That's like the cultural ideals of your parents. How much did they believe in that?
George 17:50
I think there's.
That's where a lot of the changes were basically around that. I mean, it's generally more open to add more openness to meeting and stuff like that and less stricter rules and that kind of stuff, so.
Looking for more freaking like that? Like I think they probably there from their parents as same same time. What are the same to my parents talking about their parents? There's they were rebellious as well right so.
Erik Galama 18:02
Right.
OK.
So you would say that there was.
The main change is at least were towards dating and.
That idea instead of actually, yeah, that's what you said would be. So they made changes were towards dating and compared to their parents.
George 18:35
Yeah, dating and and and even like that. I think with the.
Try to get into your era of the divorce at that time. Divorce of becoming very popular. I think that was a big difference too.
Erik Galama 18:45
Yeah.
George 18:46
Your parents didn't really believe in divorce, although my mother said that people can't live together why should they but a lot of other people.
We're very different than that.
Erik Galama 18:56
OK.
George 18:56
There were no days that that time started being like you doesn't work just.
It also goes up someplace else.
Erik Galama 19:03
Alright.
So looking back on the 70s, what like aspect of Canadian society do you see as the most?
Broken and in the need of fixing.
George 19:26
Broken in the need of shifting.
Erik Galama 19:28
Yeah.
So that could be, um, how? Like women how are perceived. It could be also towards gender any it could be to.
You it's quite broad, so basically any idea of part of like any culture or society?
George 19:46
Yeah, I I see.
I wish it would be (illegible) if in this situation right, you don't know how they were being treated that that was, in my view becoming.
Erik Galama 19:54
Hmm.
George 19:59
More upfront coming up more that time already.
Erik Galama 20:06
OK.
George 20:06
Is what? What? What story of that is because it was before I went to university. But before I went to university, and that's for sure. We lived in Ottawa still at that time and.
They're going to triplex.
And inside us moved in Inuit people that they were locating people.
Yeah, at that time also, there's been very, very unfair because they cannot at all adapt to society for the very mean and very tough on them. And that's that was before I was able to go to university. But that sort of started coming through little more university as well-being aware of those kind of things and other people were more aware of that as well. So for me, I think I was probably more.
Noticeable than other things that people talk about.
Erik Galama 20:48
Alright, so you so you say like the main progressing that was noticeable appeal. Don't try to talk about be like how I Native Americans were treated at the time?
George 21:01
Yeah, that's what I was really starting to come out or more and more that and now it's really out everywhere there. That time I notices that are coming out, I would aware of it that I'm already the schools and stuff like that so.
Erik Galama 21:06
Hmm.
Hmm.
George 21:13
It's like to me that was.
An injustice in society. Something had to be fixed at that moment.
Erik Galama 21:19
That actually started to leads into actual one and or sort of answers. So next follow-up was. So what's what like forms of injustice were common in the in Canadian society at the time?
George 21:34
What was it that in in the first people that was an injustice that a lot of way?
Erik Galama 21:34
So.
George 21:40
Uh.
Was there anything else?
Erik Galama 21:44
Yeah, like, would you say there was any, like, racial industrious. So towards African Americans?
Or are also Asians. Was there like injustice towards those groups?
George 21:56
I don't think there.
There would have been some, yes, but not large amount, but not like we're hearing about nowadays. Sometimes I think Canada in that time United States was very bad, but Canada was nothing like what I notice, added states at that time.
Erik Galama 22:04
So.
M.
George 22:15
Told them more, got along better, right?
Erik Galama 22:15
Uh.
George 22:23
I would say United States was really bad, but in Canada it was not as bad. Wouldn't be the way it was, but it wasn't really bad.
Erik Galama 22:23
Yeah.
So you would say it wasn't perfect, like there was some injustice, but it wasn't as common or as prevalent as it was in the United States.
George 22:41
Oh, no, wait. No way at all, no.
Erik Galama 22:43
No. OK.
George 22:44
No.
Erik Galama 22:46
I and also so how did you feel about the political system of Canada, the democracy that we have? Did you see that as fair and they represent the resistant rights?
And needs.
George 23:02
No.
Erik Galama 23:05
So you elaborate on this, so I I was not sure what Prime Minister was at the times.
George 23:14
Not sure exactly what that time either, but.
Structure the break back to that time at the politics at that time and the.
Erik Galama 23:17
But.
George 23:22
Means.
I don't think it was much different than it is now. I get politician to make promises. They break promises, and sometimes people get a little more annoyed than other times.
Erik Galama 23:25
This.
George 23:35
But I don't think it was anything really radically different at that time. Maybe.
Erik Galama 23:35
OK.
George 23:41
Of course it made a little more respect for each other in the political world, but.
I don't know if that's where the problem too is in the old days there wasn't that much.
News coverage.
Of that kind of thing as yours now, now everything gets put on Internet and stuff like that on Facebook and Twitter and whatever you have those days, which is really on TV and newspaper, so doesn't mean that we're hearing everything going on like this. What the few tools. Would decide what to make public, available for people. Nowadays it's a whole other world, right? And we applied our world to those days. Maybe they're the same. I don't know. Or maybe they are different.
Erik Galama 24:22
No.
So would you say that there is like less political polarization compared to today?
At in the 70s.
George 24:40
I don't know. I can't really say. I almost want to say no, but.
Not sure if that's a fair answer or not.
Erik Galama 24:47
Alright.
Uh, yeah. you also mentioned, too that news and stuff was.
You will get it on. You would just be the TV. You get it? How much did you think? Like the TV played a part in, like which political parties, like the view of political parties to general public?
George 25:11
Which is.
You got the TV. You got the radio and got the newspapers, right. And maybe some magazines. And that was really the only source of.
Erik Galama 25:17
Hmm.
George 25:20
Really information. Unless you were lucky enough to you, that meet these people are going to Parliament and listen to people in Parliament.
I think the main form really was either.
TV or radio?
Not so much newspaper.
Erik Galama 25:36
OK.
George 25:37
Radio at that time because you had a good radio station.
Was not like modern radio station, but it was more.
It's like an all news station, but.
It was more like through news and in-depth reporting and stuff like that, and they would always have, you know, politics and stuff like that and interview them on on that station. So that that was good. So you can really get at least from the (illegible) peoples point of view what they're thinking about.
Erik Galama 25:52
Hmm.
Alright.
Um.
So so let's little bit is so the last.
Sorry, I lost the main question.
Is going to be mainly talking about the free love move, but but also along with.
Changes in like gender, relationship and.
Ideology.
So the main question here is cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill and legalization of abortion and.
The dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relationships and dating practices in the early 1970s. How much would you agree with that statement?
George 26:52
Close from the 1970s right to the OT, but I would say that the other was, yeah, influence it for sure.
Erik Galama 26:55
Yeah.
So would you say that?
What, like I, was those three things I mentioned. So was the birth control pills, the legalization of abortion, and the increased prevalence of free love ideology.
I was just three things. What would you say most change the.
But like dating practices at the time.
George 27:26
I think they all relate. We've got that right. We think about the first controlled and even get abortions and.
Erik Galama 27:28
Hmm.
George 27:32
Yeah, it's, it's it's. I think they're all the same. I think I'll just relate to each other.
Well, one cause it together they should.
So they just go like a unison. There not. There not like one and another another. Like this. Sort of. They roll together almost.
Erik Galama 27:48
All right.
the follow-up to that to is so.
Um, how?
As you can describe how did dating look like on campus?
George 28:02
There really wasn't there that much about.
I mean that's that's seen teachers and students dating and making out in the cafeteria and stuff with. That's that's that's that's a fact. That's not a joke, that's a fact.
I'm. You know other people, they, they they dated and sometimes they would have lived together and stuff like that. You had more than maybe in years prior to that. So it was a little more.
Openness about that kind of.
Erik Galama 28:31
OK.
Um.
Start at so you say it be more open to previous years.
Crooked.
George 28:42
I'm sorry. Say again.
Erik Galama 28:42
Uh, you would say it would be more open compared to previous years. Yep.
George 28:46
Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
Erik Galama 28:48
Would you say it became less open as the years like in later years?
George 28:55
I would say no, no, it would just became more accepted. Right. So it wouldn't more it wouldn't as in your faces, it was at that time it just.
Erik Galama 29:04
Hmm.
George 29:05
Or part of a society.
This is more accepted nowadays.
Erik Galama 29:07
OK.
Um nursing on tight is how did your generation view family and marriage? So how common was it for people to want to start a family?
George 29:27
I think that was part of the norm, right? It wasn't.
And people are married. They want to get married. They were there. Some people that were just wanted to live together, but marriage was still an institution at that time.
People saw that and they went for like a normal weddings and stuff.
And most of them want to children as well. Yeah, so.
So that time at all think that had. I think nowadays I sort of breaking down where should say breaking up where. Yeah you have marriage but the the wedding itself is not as important as you used to be and a lot simpler and. Maybe more practical or more meaning collectively that way in then large, expensive weddings.
Erik Galama 30:08
OK.
Um.
So you would say be it was still essentially the same like level compared to previous generations where people still wanted to buy the same appeal. Also want to get married and start families.
George 30:26
Yeah, me maybe a little bit less, but I don't think it had done. I would say it was significantly less.
Erik Galama 30:31
OK.
And then the final section, yeah, if you don't want talk about, we don't have to. It's talks about sexual harassment and or sexual sexuality and also sexual harassment.
That if you want to talk about, we can if you don't want to, you don't have to.
George 30:51
Pass that one. You're gonna do there. You don't want her to pass it.
Erik Galama 30:55
Alright.
Alright, person, if you don't wanna do it, I'm fine that.
And then I think that is all the questions. So that is I'm gonna stop the recording.
George 31:08
Yeah.
Erik Galama 31:09
And that's gonna be the end.
It’s the 21 of October the date or the time I should say is 1:15. I am, I the interviewer Erik Galama And I'm interviewing George over teams for the life on campus project.
So let's get started.
Alright.
So.
Ah, where do I put? There's questions. Alright, so is the first topic we are going over is pop culture.
So the.
The main Category here is or I say the main question is, cultural historians have argued that the television, Hollywood, popular music and consumer culture built around automobiles has created a more integral North American popular culture.
Um, as Ottawa or University of Ottawa is a bilingual institution? The purpose is questions are to better understand how anglophones and francophones relate together.
So the first question here is um.
So there was less electronics in Canada society in the 1970s compared to today.
How was a leisure time structured? Or how did OttawaU use students or what do use students do for fun in that time period?
George 1:40
That's the question?
Erik Galama 1:42
Yeah. So.
George 1:42
Do for fun.
Erik Galama 1:44
Yep, first one.
Yeah, for fun. So what, what was the like? What how was your leisure time structured? What was it built around? Was it?
I cause this was television still came more popular around this time. Most people would've had one. So was it built around? That was the other things.
George 2:09
(illegible) is always part of society nowadays or at that time too. Think work was also very important leisure time because I didn't have time for leisure time at university and then basically I work and I study. So I didn't have a lot of real quality leisure time available to myself.
Erik Galama 2:27
So you would say it's at least was for you was mostly structure around work and there wouldn't be a lot of time just for leisure.
George 2:37
Exactly exactly. I had to pay for my education, right? So I've been working basically all the time that I have free and then I have to study as well. So it's.
There was a much leisure time, as if we're called leisure time.
Erik Galama 2:51
All right, for follow up is that I'm so first the on campus itself.
If there was time, to be hanging out and stuff, what would be the most popular spots to people would be hanging out on or off campus?
George 3:09
If I hung out It would be. It would have been on campus because it would have been.
Probably near where my classes were being held. Would that be with my colleagues waiting them. Talk. Whatever is, are sticking to the corner 30 minutes away or something like that. Not as far as going outside the campus area, no.
Erik Galama 3:28
No. OK.
George 3:29
No.
Erik Galama 3:30
Uh, so next question, I don't know how much is applies to you, but during your years at university, did you ever attend a live musical event?
George 3:40
No.
Erik Galama 3:40
No.
Uh, where's your many are in Ottawa at that time for you to even attend if you wanted to.
George 3:49
Don't think I don't really recall like live ones? No, no.
Erik Galama 3:53
OK.
George 3:53
I think the UFT had a couple of smaller ones like some.
like in the cafeteria or something. A small local
like a student band or something like that, but that, that, that would be the closest to live entertain.
Erik Galama 4:07
All right.
Um, so OttawaU uses to be bilingual or
is bilingual institution.
Um.
That.
I.
Sorry, that question was written in broken English.
Oh yeah, so basically because OttawaU is a bilingual institution. There's many. There's a bunch of mixing in francophones and anglophones because they rolled the same university and courses. How much was like how?
How much was there mixing between anglophones and francophones? Or were they quite separate apart?
George 4:48
That's a good question.
What I could tell? I mean my classes were filled with both anglophones and francophones.
I don't really think it was really that easy to distinguish the two. They seemed to I I'm I'm basically anglophone, right? So I don't speak French.
Maybe.
It was a different, but the people I saw met or you got along pretty good together ang francophones.
Erik Galama 5:16
Alright, so you wouldn't say that.
There was like noticeable like separation between the two groups.
George 5:24
I did not see that. No, no.
Erik Galama 5:26
OK.
Next question actually relate to that is, did anglophones and francophones ever date each other?
George 5:35
You'd have to ask them individually, I guess, right?
Erik Galama 5:38
Yeah, fair enough. Well, from your own perspectives, did you see that?
George 5:41
that I don't, that I don't have any ideas.
Erik Galama 5:44
Then it is alright.
Um.
So in modern terms, to, we used the term party culture to refer to social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the party culture on university of ottawa during the 70s if you could?
George 6:01
First, I lived off at, at home, right? So that was like it's now work transit every day. About 2 hours back one way and those days. So I didn't have much time at all to partake in the party culture. Well there was party culture there, but I didn't take part. I just have to the time.
Erik Galama 6:04
All right.
George 6:17
How? How big it was? I don't really know. But there I know people that that's, that's all they talk about. But that would be the minority.
Erik Galama 6:25
OK.
Um.
Next is, so I during actually when you're at the university, the Vietnam War would be over. But generally speaking, how would you see the student body over like idea of the Vietnam War was it?
And like, how prevalent was anywhere that person? So how did the student body when you where there, view the Vietnam War or is the anti-war movement?
George 7:00
I don't recall it in my time period at all.
Erik Galama 7:03
No.
George 7:03
not a lot of university, no.
doesn’t seem part of the conversation.
But what I saw, maybe there's some people that are more involved in that and talking about it in their groups and even more to. not into the people that are associated with.
Erik Galama 7:18
Alright.
George 7:20
I think I think it was before my time at university anyway, so.
Erik Galama 7:20
I.
Yeah, it should have been, but I wasn't sure also how much bleed over there was.
George 7:27
Yeah.
Erik Galama 7:34
Uh.
That I so in the 70s, two rock'n'roll started to become more populous and a lot of art, rock and rollers in the 1960s have been promoted, promoted various forms of protest.
How did your parents or see rock roll as a rebellious like former music? Or was it just a form of popular music?
George 8:02
They didn't like it. I thought it was really poor quality and looking like the old music which people involved, right or technical skills and stuff like that. They didn't like it. I don't think they looked at as being rebellious. They just they'd like it.
Erik Galama 8:17
So they.
George 8:17
The other was more like, but then was just yelling and screaming.
That's really what it was. I don't think they really think about it being rebellious music or stuff with that.
Erik Galama 8:27
So they so they never thought it was rebellious, more as a they just didn't like the sound of it. Would that be correct?
George 8:36
I would say I was. I would say that's what it was. Yes, it's not what they grew up with and when it was such a different thing. Yeah.
You recognize that people look into that time so.
Erik Galama 8:46
Yep.
Um, follow-up is so so some culture voices In the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent did recreational drugs availability on campus occur during 1970s? So how common were drugs basically?
George 9:07
Was there but.
sorts of the people I hung around with. It wasn't not really there.
So there's probably a certain sub segments of the student body and not for the cluster body as well, but.
If it was not they.
Very, very minimal from what I saw.
Erik Galama 9:25
Alright, for reference, would you say it's be more as prevalent or less prevalent today, like in just general cult like public?
And like culture.
George 9:39
Probably probably less, I would say.
Erik Galama 9:42
That's alright.
George 9:43
Yeah, I think so. But it's it's.
It's a tough question.
Erik Galama 9:50
Next one sort of relating to the last question was.
So in the 70s.
psychedelics were coming more common use, to what extent did the students on campus use psychedelic drugs.
Or if any?
George 10:06
I I.
I made it.
I've been really answered that question. I mean, I know where stuff out there, but how much I've, you know, I I can't even take a guess at that that would be.
Erik Galama 10:12
Yeah.
George 10:17
Wrong thing to do. It's so small, small writes up, but maybe there's a whole segment of this to the population that was very heavily involved in it, but I would not in that group.
Erik Galama 10:26
OK.
Alright, so that is the first section done, which is the impact of popular culture. So this section section we're gonna get onto is the female experience. So as the main question there is.
Sorry is.
For culture, historians have written a lot about what they call the 2nd wave of feminism. This is part of the counterculture movement and women in the 19 early 1970s sought to breakdown gender barriers during this.
Does this argument with your experience, or does this argument resonated with your experience on the campus during the 70s?
Um and also basically, do you believe that?
There was a large or a noticeable feminist movement on campus.
George 11:31
Hmm.
Either way, there was some of that you wouldn't say is like really noticeable anything, but you can see people becoming more sensitive to that whole notation.
Erik Galama 11:46
Uh, so would you say?
It was more prevalent.
Like the first few years there or did became more and more common. At the later you're.
George 11:57
I don't. I was only there for three years. I was not a perfectionist student like some people, so I can't really. I wanted to try to answer that one.
Erik Galama 12:02
Alright.
So you wouldn't have any idea if, uh, like so for like the first year is there, you have no clue if was more common than when you're by the time you graduated or left?
George 12:15
Yeah, like that was there to study them, went home to work, right. So I'm not socializing with a lot of people at the university, so I can't really property answer that question. Right. I didn't notice. I, I could. I can’t answer that. I didn’t notice the difference.
Erik Galama 12:24
All right.
OK. And also follow-up to that.
The time before you went to university, how would you say it was also common before that?
George 12:42
I would say it was about the same. Yeah, that's sort of run that time period, yeah.
Erik Galama 12:45
All right.
So in your own words, what did feminism like mean to Canada in the early 70s?
George 12:59
It was just think it was trying to.
Have recalled by of the the sexist or and recognition of the difference, but building equality.
Erik Galama 13:10
Alright.
George 13:10
A little more respect for each other, I guess is what it comes down to really.
Erik Galama 13:14
Hmm.
Uh.
OK. For two is so in the 70s.
Words are programs, apartments, clubs that were at were women were less.
Um, represent or less or more and less of compared to other programs.
George 13:35
Alright, if I look at the programs that I was in, I'd say it was a.
It wasn't really that much difference. I mean, maybe a little bit less women than men, but not really significant amount.
Erik Galama 13:47
What program?
George 13:48
Such steps, although my studies right, I mean that they go to school to study, didn't go there to going join clubs and stuff like that and have the time for it had to work for my fees to pay processors right to renting the building and stuff. So all I could talk about is my classroom and the classrooms were.
Erik Galama 13:53
Yeah.
Yeah.
George 14:03
Not much difference over people, even distributed. Maybe some less females than males, but not not a significant amount.
Erik Galama 14:10
Alright, I around.
I would program were you in.
So I can just get George, so I.
George 14:22
Commerce, commerce.
Erik Galama 14:22
Commerce, OK.
George 14:24
Yeah.
Erik Galama 14:24
So you'd say commerce was around a 50/50 split?
George 14:28
Yeah, a little bit less than 50/50, but it wasn't.
You're not looking like 80/20 or anything like that no.
Erik Galama 14:31
Alright.
OK, so it wasn't, it was quite evenly split originally not like a major difference.
George 14:39
No, I think it's rounded time when.
When we started getting more into those fields like we're talking about the late 70s.
Erik Galama 14:44
Hmm.
George 14:47
Not the beginning. At the moment, it's the movement already been underway for a while and.
Erik Galama 14:52
OK, I.
So you said you you're not sure about our programs you at all, so you wouldn't be able to tell for like engineering or you sent that?
George 15:02
No, no. I would like to talk about other programs. That's what I came to study and that's basically where I stayed.
Erik Galama 15:08
OK.
Uh.
So then it is for that's done for feminism. Next topic is on ideology, and like generational differences.
So many question here is historians have written a lot about what they called the counterculture revolution. That meaning means that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents, revolution or generation.
To what extent did people in your cultural or social circles seem cells as need to mobilize for more?
Just for more just society and the better world.
George 15:57
We don't know the like like, you know, I think that I think that this historians trying to write something on paper so they could get their this is approved.
Erik Galama 15:57
Yes.
George 16:05
Uh, I think that there was a lot of conversation about.
You know the way it was with our parents, right? And the way we wanted to have.
Erik Galama 16:12
Hmm.
George 16:14
I wouldn't hold like a rebellion and stuff like that. I think that just overstating it let me go to the movement for it. I guess in general, but because a lot of people realize that, you know the. Or our parents generation. They had a lot of good stuff going for them and we need to be changed in certain ways, but.
You know, it's just like it's like any generation. I mean, you talked about my generation. You gonna talk about the Ask the same question about your generation and you'll find it. It's basically the same answers. It all changed, right? I mean, every generation wants to change from the preceding generation. Doesn't mean that the generation thinks that preceding generation was.
Erik Galama 16:39
Hmm.
George 16:49
Was bad or wrong, it's just a different way. They want to look at thinking different way before every setback maybe be more open mind or something and you know, next generation gonna say maybe we should be more close minded. It says it's a cycle that goes through.
Erik Galama 16:49
Hmm.
George 17:02
So yeah, that was part of the conversation.
Erik Galama 17:02
OK.
So you said it be part conversation. You just wouldn't say it be like a dramatic change. It was more smaller changes.
George 17:10
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's more realistic. It was there. People talk about it and and stuff like that, but it wasn't getting into rebellion. Finding stuff like the like the refresh. Wanna stay sometimes? No, I don't think that's what the case at all. At least not with environment that I was in.
Erik Galama 17:12
OK.
OK.
So yeah, so far for that is so to.
What extent, I guess, did your generation believe in your parents like ideals of gender, family and dating? That's like the cultural ideals of your parents. How much did they believe in that?
George 17:50
I think there's.
That's where a lot of the changes were basically around that. I mean, it's generally more open to add more openness to meeting and stuff like that and less stricter rules and that kind of stuff, so.
Looking for more freaking like that? Like I think they probably there from their parents as same same time. What are the same to my parents talking about their parents? There's they were rebellious as well right so.
Erik Galama 18:02
Right.
OK.
So you would say that there was.
The main change is at least were towards dating and.
That idea instead of actually, yeah, that's what you said would be. So they made changes were towards dating and compared to their parents.
George 18:35
Yeah, dating and and and even like that. I think with the.
Try to get into your era of the divorce at that time. Divorce of becoming very popular. I think that was a big difference too.
Erik Galama 18:45
Yeah.
George 18:46
Your parents didn't really believe in divorce, although my mother said that people can't live together why should they but a lot of other people.
We're very different than that.
Erik Galama 18:56
OK.
George 18:56
There were no days that that time started being like you doesn't work just.
It also goes up someplace else.
Erik Galama 19:03
Alright.
So looking back on the 70s, what like aspect of Canadian society do you see as the most?
Broken and in the need of fixing.
George 19:26
Broken in the need of shifting.
Erik Galama 19:28
Yeah.
So that could be, um, how? Like women how are perceived. It could be also towards gender any it could be to.
You it's quite broad, so basically any idea of part of like any culture or society?
George 19:46
Yeah, I I see.
I wish it would be (illegible) if in this situation right, you don't know how they were being treated that that was, in my view becoming.
Erik Galama 19:54
Hmm.
George 19:59
More upfront coming up more that time already.
Erik Galama 20:06
OK.
George 20:06
Is what? What? What story of that is because it was before I went to university. But before I went to university, and that's for sure. We lived in Ottawa still at that time and.
They're going to triplex.
And inside us moved in Inuit people that they were locating people.
Yeah, at that time also, there's been very, very unfair because they cannot at all adapt to society for the very mean and very tough on them. And that's that was before I was able to go to university. But that sort of started coming through little more university as well-being aware of those kind of things and other people were more aware of that as well. So for me, I think I was probably more.
Noticeable than other things that people talk about.
Erik Galama 20:48
Alright, so you so you say like the main progressing that was noticeable appeal. Don't try to talk about be like how I Native Americans were treated at the time?
George 21:01
Yeah, that's what I was really starting to come out or more and more that and now it's really out everywhere there. That time I notices that are coming out, I would aware of it that I'm already the schools and stuff like that so.
Erik Galama 21:06
Hmm.
Hmm.
George 21:13
It's like to me that was.
An injustice in society. Something had to be fixed at that moment.
Erik Galama 21:19
That actually started to leads into actual one and or sort of answers. So next follow-up was. So what's what like forms of injustice were common in the in Canadian society at the time?
George 21:34
What was it that in in the first people that was an injustice that a lot of way?
Erik Galama 21:34
So.
George 21:40
Uh.
Was there anything else?
Erik Galama 21:44
Yeah, like, would you say there was any, like, racial industrious. So towards African Americans?
Or are also Asians. Was there like injustice towards those groups?
George 21:56
I don't think there.
There would have been some, yes, but not large amount, but not like we're hearing about nowadays. Sometimes I think Canada in that time United States was very bad, but Canada was nothing like what I notice, added states at that time.
Erik Galama 22:04
So.
M.
George 22:15
Told them more, got along better, right?
Erik Galama 22:15
Uh.
George 22:23
I would say United States was really bad, but in Canada it was not as bad. Wouldn't be the way it was, but it wasn't really bad.
Erik Galama 22:23
Yeah.
So you would say it wasn't perfect, like there was some injustice, but it wasn't as common or as prevalent as it was in the United States.
George 22:41
Oh, no, wait. No way at all, no.
Erik Galama 22:43
No. OK.
George 22:44
No.
Erik Galama 22:46
I and also so how did you feel about the political system of Canada, the democracy that we have? Did you see that as fair and they represent the resistant rights?
And needs.
George 23:02
No.
Erik Galama 23:05
So you elaborate on this, so I I was not sure what Prime Minister was at the times.
George 23:14
Not sure exactly what that time either, but.
Structure the break back to that time at the politics at that time and the.
Erik Galama 23:17
But.
George 23:22
Means.
I don't think it was much different than it is now. I get politician to make promises. They break promises, and sometimes people get a little more annoyed than other times.
Erik Galama 23:25
This.
George 23:35
But I don't think it was anything really radically different at that time. Maybe.
Erik Galama 23:35
OK.
George 23:41
Of course it made a little more respect for each other in the political world, but.
I don't know if that's where the problem too is in the old days there wasn't that much.
News coverage.
Of that kind of thing as yours now, now everything gets put on Internet and stuff like that on Facebook and Twitter and whatever you have those days, which is really on TV and newspaper, so doesn't mean that we're hearing everything going on like this. What the few tools. Would decide what to make public, available for people. Nowadays it's a whole other world, right? And we applied our world to those days. Maybe they're the same. I don't know. Or maybe they are different.
Erik Galama 24:22
No.
So would you say that there is like less political polarization compared to today?
At in the 70s.
George 24:40
I don't know. I can't really say. I almost want to say no, but.
Not sure if that's a fair answer or not.
Erik Galama 24:47
Alright.
Uh, yeah. you also mentioned, too that news and stuff was.
You will get it on. You would just be the TV. You get it? How much did you think? Like the TV played a part in, like which political parties, like the view of political parties to general public?
George 25:11
Which is.
You got the TV. You got the radio and got the newspapers, right. And maybe some magazines. And that was really the only source of.
Erik Galama 25:17
Hmm.
George 25:20
Really information. Unless you were lucky enough to you, that meet these people are going to Parliament and listen to people in Parliament.
I think the main form really was either.
TV or radio?
Not so much newspaper.
Erik Galama 25:36
OK.
George 25:37
Radio at that time because you had a good radio station.
Was not like modern radio station, but it was more.
It's like an all news station, but.
It was more like through news and in-depth reporting and stuff like that, and they would always have, you know, politics and stuff like that and interview them on on that station. So that that was good. So you can really get at least from the (illegible) peoples point of view what they're thinking about.
Erik Galama 25:52
Hmm.
Alright.
Um.
So so let's little bit is so the last.
Sorry, I lost the main question.
Is going to be mainly talking about the free love move, but but also along with.
Changes in like gender, relationship and.
Ideology.
So the main question here is cultural historians have argued that the introduction of the birth control pill and legalization of abortion and.
The dissemination of the free love ideology changed gender relationships and dating practices in the early 1970s. How much would you agree with that statement?
George 26:52
Close from the 1970s right to the OT, but I would say that the other was, yeah, influence it for sure.
Erik Galama 26:55
Yeah.
So would you say that?
What, like I, was those three things I mentioned. So was the birth control pills, the legalization of abortion, and the increased prevalence of free love ideology.
I was just three things. What would you say most change the.
But like dating practices at the time.
George 27:26
I think they all relate. We've got that right. We think about the first controlled and even get abortions and.
Erik Galama 27:28
Hmm.
George 27:32
Yeah, it's, it's it's. I think they're all the same. I think I'll just relate to each other.
Well, one cause it together they should.
So they just go like a unison. There not. There not like one and another another. Like this. Sort of. They roll together almost.
Erik Galama 27:48
All right.
the follow-up to that to is so.
Um, how?
As you can describe how did dating look like on campus?
George 28:02
There really wasn't there that much about.
I mean that's that's seen teachers and students dating and making out in the cafeteria and stuff with. That's that's that's that's a fact. That's not a joke, that's a fact.
I'm. You know other people, they, they they dated and sometimes they would have lived together and stuff like that. You had more than maybe in years prior to that. So it was a little more.
Openness about that kind of.
Erik Galama 28:31
OK.
Um.
Start at so you say it be more open to previous years.
Crooked.
George 28:42
I'm sorry. Say again.
Erik Galama 28:42
Uh, you would say it would be more open compared to previous years. Yep.
George 28:46
Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
Erik Galama 28:48
Would you say it became less open as the years like in later years?
George 28:55
I would say no, no, it would just became more accepted. Right. So it wouldn't more it wouldn't as in your faces, it was at that time it just.
Erik Galama 29:04
Hmm.
George 29:05
Or part of a society.
This is more accepted nowadays.
Erik Galama 29:07
OK.
Um nursing on tight is how did your generation view family and marriage? So how common was it for people to want to start a family?
George 29:27
I think that was part of the norm, right? It wasn't.
And people are married. They want to get married. They were there. Some people that were just wanted to live together, but marriage was still an institution at that time.
People saw that and they went for like a normal weddings and stuff.
And most of them want to children as well. Yeah, so.
So that time at all think that had. I think nowadays I sort of breaking down where should say breaking up where. Yeah you have marriage but the the wedding itself is not as important as you used to be and a lot simpler and. Maybe more practical or more meaning collectively that way in then large, expensive weddings.
Erik Galama 30:08
OK.
Um.
So you would say be it was still essentially the same like level compared to previous generations where people still wanted to buy the same appeal. Also want to get married and start families.
George 30:26
Yeah, me maybe a little bit less, but I don't think it had done. I would say it was significantly less.
Erik Galama 30:31
OK.
And then the final section, yeah, if you don't want talk about, we don't have to. It's talks about sexual harassment and or sexual sexuality and also sexual harassment.
That if you want to talk about, we can if you don't want to, you don't have to.
George 30:51
Pass that one. You're gonna do there. You don't want her to pass it.
Erik Galama 30:55
Alright.
Alright, person, if you don't wanna do it, I'm fine that.
And then I think that is all the questions. So that is I'm gonna stop the recording.
George 31:08
Yeah.
Erik Galama 31:09
And that's gonna be the end.
Collection
Citation
“G. George (Interview),” Life on Campus, accessed November 12, 2024, http://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/items/show/56.
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| This Item | is related to | Item: G., George (pseudonym) |