Turpin, Nicole (interview)

Dublin Core

Title

Turpin, Nicole (interview)

Description

Testimonial about The University of Ottawa in the 1970s, including the counter-culture movement and second-wave feminism

Date

2023-10-21

Oral History Item Type Metadata

Interviewer

Lafrance, Elizabeth

Interviewee

Turpin, Nicole

Location

Ottawa, Ontario (Via Teams)

Transcription

Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, so I'm Elizabeth Lafrance interviewing. Nicole Turpin, about the Life on campus project in the 70s.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Um.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
And so one of the main themes that we're trying to like,
Um, delve into is the impact of popular culture, and so the main question for this part that we're trying to like get into is cultural historians have argued that television, Hollywood, popular music, and a consumer culture around automobiles created a more integrated North American popular culture. Ottawa was a bilingual institution, and we want to better understand how anglophones and francophones are related. Together.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
They were less at electronics in Canadian society during the 1970s. How was your leisure time structured or what did you? What did you do with students do for fun and then 1970s?
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Nicole
I guess the biggest piece was we spent time together.
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Nicole
There was definitely a separation between the Francophones and the Anglophones.
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Nicole
In first year.
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Nicole
It was more because there was a lot of francophones that were coming from outside of Ottawa.
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Nicole
And did not speak a lot of English.
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Nicole
So there really was a big separation. I was actually in the middle because I came from Ottawa. I was completely bilingual and in sports because I had a fixed and kinesiology courses.
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Nicole
All sports, all the competitive sports, was mixed together. So there was a social circle that was created that didn't exist on campus part from sports. That's the sports part.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
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Nicole
So for there, that's what. That's where we hung around more and more with both Anglophone and Francophone.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
So did you not have a problem like?
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Between each, like anglophone or francophone, where you completely in the middle? Or did you find yourself going to like one side?
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Nicole
Being a Franco Ontarian is very different than a quebecker.
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Nicole
And because I've lived all my life in a bilingual environment, most of my life.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
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Nicole
I was used to it and all of my friends that went to university with me from Ottawa, we would switch back and forth in French and English without even thinking about it. As soon as there was an anglophone in the group, we would switch all the English for that person because the anglophone never even had thought of thinking or talking in French. But the francophones we were all used to it. So that's how we worked.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, what were the most popular hangout spots on and off of campus?
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Nicole
Again.
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Nicole
The first year was pretty quiet.
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Nicole
Residence was always a popular place and there was a room, a big room, a meeting room, and there was, I can't remember if there was alcohol on campus or not. I have no memory of that. But it was a big there. there was a lot of music and a lot of dancing, and there was always. You always started there as a group.
0:3:42.740 --> 0:3:43.360
Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
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Nicole
But we were underage at that time, so it there was a lot less alcohol in those first years.
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Nicole
It's yet to be 21, so it was just kind of like in and out. And yes, there was alcohol everywhere, but it wasn't, you know, in a lot of places. We just aren't allowed to go. We couldn't get in. We looked too young. So that's thing.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
And when you like, we're graduating. Was it more like focused on alcohol? Like, whenever you'd hang out?
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Nicole
It depended on the group.
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Nicole
We, I hung around very much with the Sports Group, with the athletes.
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Nicole
So most people was mostly alcohol, but I, I knew some people who were completely into drugs as whatever you wanted was there on campus and some some people got really deep into it and even some of my friends that I knew and kind of stayed away from that.
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Nicole
But there was anything you wanted on campus.
0:4:49.360 --> 0:4:49.950
Nicole
Really was.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, did you attend any live music events during your university years?
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Nicole
Oh my God. All the time dancing really was something everybody did. Like you went somewhere and you dance.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
0:5:5.410 --> 0:5:26.930
Nicole
For hours and hours and hours. And you, you. You did it like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. You know you did it here every night and 1st year was quieter again. And I lived at home for the first year. So I, you know, of course, my parents were still controlling a little bit more. And I lived in Aylmer in that point. So it was far.
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Nicole
And so that was made a difference in first year. It was a lot quieter after that. I moved into an apartment in Sandy Hill. So that changed everything. I was living on my own with a couple of girlfriends, and life was a lot busier socially. There was always a party going on any night. There was always something for you.
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Nicole
On campus, around campus, the bars around the campus down in-in-the in the market, were always open.
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Nicole
And so yeah, depending on what you need to do that night, there was always something.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
UOttawa was a bilingual institution. How linguistically integrated was it during the 1970s. Did the Francophones and anglophones enrol in the same university courses and participate in the same clubs?
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Nicole
OK, so in those days.
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Nicole
Thou shall not cross that line. The courses were only in French and only in English.
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Nicole
I was actually the first student.
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Nicole
That thought that and I ended up sitting in the Dean's office and arguing the point. Why should I not be allowed to go into the French course? Or the English course, depending on which teacher or what time?
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Nicole
Work better for me. But you had to be bilingual to do that.
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Nicole
And I've got they let me do it. And it was not.
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Nicole
It was extremely rare where the courses were together at all. It really was two schools.
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Nicole
On one French side and one English side.
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Nicole
We did, however, socialize a lot together. As we got older and got to know each other.
0:7:20.380 --> 0:7:30.860
Nicole
But to start, it was very much the English type and very much the French type to the point when not where you started or when I was there, we had to do a language test.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
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Nicole
Or second language test.
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Nicole
And most people, the second language was much lower.
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Nicole
So you would take whatever level, but you were mandated to take a second language course.
0:7:47.190 --> 0:7:53.400
Nicole
I was a keener and being who I was and how I was, I came from a French private school. We were really very, very bilingual. I ended up taking the French sides French and the English sides English of Anthology of English verse, which was horrible. But that's how bilingual I was.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
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Nicole
But there was a lot of francophones who could, and anglophones who did not speak a word of the other language or barely.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Um did Anglophones and francophones date each other during the 1970s.
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Nicole
Ohhhhh the French girls are popular.
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Nicole
There's no question about that. And very quickly everybody started dating and we mixed very quickly.
0:8:41.120 --> 0:9:1.410
Nicole
We were all very close to both the groups, especially in in the groupings, because again, as I said, the sports were worked integrated. So we-we-we got to know each other a lot. It was not like that for a lot of other places. But in our department it really was mixed.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
So how did, like, you being a part of sport change your experince?
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Taking sports, like, change how you ,like, experienced university.
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Nicole
The sports how did it change? Where am I?
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Nicole
Uh.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
No, that was like that's all the script but.
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Nicole
Oh, it's not the- OK, how did I integrate?
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Or like how did you been a part of like sports clubs instead of change how, like your social life like was?
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Nicole
It was very different because I was so fluent.
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Nicole
So whatever sport I wanted to go into, it gravitated different sports gravitated different culture like different groupings, whether it was francophones for certain sports, like volleyball, it was francophone.
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Nicole
And basketball was anglophone.
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Nicole
That was their sports. And so again, I got to do both, but most of the others didn't. But because we were started getting to know each other so much in those sports, and there were others that everybody joined in and you would hear both languages running at the same time. And on the- in the same sentence.
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Nicole
As people got more and more integrated into each other, wanting to be social with each other.
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Nicole
And so that-that created a much more cultural group.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
We used the term party culture to refer to the social activities outside the classroom. How would you describe the part the party culture on the University of Ottawa campus during the 1970s?
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Nicole
I have. It was wild.
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Nicole
It was. You have to realize that.
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Nicole
We had been wild. I was coming from private boarding school girls, private school for five years. No, four years. Sorry, that was crazy all of a sudden, it- and you were away from home. Most of half the groupings were in residence.
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Nicole
Um.
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Nicole
Yeah.
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Nicole
There was a a lot of-
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Nicole
Every night girls and boys, there were some heavy partying in those days.
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Nicole
And depending on how important your-your class and your report card or your marks was it, it changed. I mean there was this big crazy time and then everybody kind of.
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Nicole
Who bought a bit realized. Oh, wait a SEC. We actually have to go to classes and we actually have to.
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Nicole
Graduate. So there was this ebb and flow, but it was it really was, wild. Anything, everything.
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Nicole
And at the same time, it was the first generation of women who we went on the pill.
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Nicole
That.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Hmm.
0:12:9.200 --> 0:12:10.10
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
What did the student body think about the?
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Nicole
Review.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Vietnam War.
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Nicole
Nothing.
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Nicole
It didn't exist.
0:12:20.290 --> 0:12:30.240
Nicole
You know what did it? Did it? It was barely mentioned. No interest was what was, though hugely was the FLQ and what that is.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
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Nicole
So that tends to back.
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Nicole
When we went into.
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Nicole
The FLQ took some English people and ended up they wanted to separate the-the-the province.
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Nicole
It was. It was violent. There's someone that was killed. You'll have to research that part. The FLQ.
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Nicole
That we talked about all the time because.
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Nicole
In grade12 and 13, when it happened, that's when I was in it.
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Nicole
We had.
0:13:6.330 --> 0:13:28.670
Nicole
Um students in our school that their parents were cabinet ministers and representatives, and we actually had RCMP on campus in our schools for weeks and months so that no one would be kidnapped or that there was no Violence.
0:13:29.370 --> 0:13:34.80
Nicole
But we lived through the FLQ, but Vietnam nothing. Not a word.
0:13:34.970 --> 0:13:38.0
Nicole
I have no memory of everybody talking about that part.
0:13:39.260 --> 0:13:40.190
Nicole
It was more the FLQ.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
So.
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Nicole
It it it warranted a lot of discussions.
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Nicole
It talked about the French identity, Canadian identity, how to integrate French and English. So we we had a lot of discussions with the Francophones and Anglophones talking about identity.
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Nicole
That we did a lot of discussions about.
0:14:12.540 --> 0:14:16.390
Nicole
Um, but not nothing about the Vietnam War.
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Nicole
Not with that English French dynamic.
0:14:21.80 --> 0:14:21.620
Elizabeth Lafrance Hmm.
0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:36.840
Elizabeth Lafrance
Rock'n'roll artists in that 1960s had promoted various forms of protests. Did your, did your parents think of rock'n'roll as rebellious or just a form of popular music?
0:14:38.430 --> 0:14:41.120
Nicole
I was the eldest of seven kids.
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Nicole
And and so I was the first one that walked out the door kind of thing and started.
0:14:49.380 --> 0:14:50.640
Nicole
But they were very.
0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.850
Nicole
Confident about me as a person and I wasn't into drugs.
0:14:57.550 --> 0:14:58.660
Nicole
So they kind of.
0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:9.270
Nicole
I mean, they'd comment about it. I can remember my boyfriend at the time. His parents were appalled because he had started letting his hair grow, and that was like.
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Nicole
A huge challenge to parents was the boys having long hair.
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Nicole
When you think about it now it's hilarious. But in those days the boys hair was long and getting longer. That was absolutely the rock influence.
0:15:26.930 --> 0:15:32.400
Nicole
Not the big drug thing because like we skirted it, we didn't really get into it.
0:15:33.670 --> 0:15:39.410
Nicole
Our parents weren't as worried, but I know other parents were. They were definitely worried about it.
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Elizabeth Lafrance
So would you say that your parents were like, strict?
0:15:45.630 --> 0:15:45.920
Nicole
I'm.
0:15:50.890 --> 0:15:51.150
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
0:15:47.610 --> 0:15:52.40
Nicole
You have to remember when we're talking about, you know, expectations for children.
0:15:53.80 --> 0:16:4.880
Nicole
Pretty clear, but then I moved out so I only stayed a year with my parents and then I-I was gone after that they they had no say over me, really. I mean, I didn't.
0:16:6.160 --> 0:16:11.220
Nicole
I didn't change my behavior. I still saw them regularly. I still, you know, went over and.
0:16:12.380 --> 0:16:19.880
Nicole
Got fed as often as I could because I lived in the same city. I mean, I lived close. My parents were in in Alymer at that point, so.
0:16:20.570 --> 0:16:22.270
Nicole
It it wasn't as obvious.
0:16:27.660 --> 0:16:27.920
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
0:16:22.950 --> 0:16:38.400
Nicole
What did i do that they didn't have a clue what I was doing, really, you know? But they had my younger brother and sisters, they were already into it too. So they were concerned. But I think they trusted us to make good choices at the time.
0:16:41.150 --> 0:16:53.130
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, some youth culture voices in the 1970s promoted taking recreational drugs. To what extent where recreational drugs available on campus during the 1970s.
0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.190
Nicole
Anything you wanted, you.
0:16:56.530 --> 0:17:9.370
Nicole
I know that I didn't. My sister got into heavy like, i’ll let you know, acid and everything she was into absolutely everything. And she could get it anyway she wanted.
0:17:10.250 --> 0:17:11.830
Nicole
It really was there.
0:17:12.810 --> 0:17:21.380
Nicole
But again, I didn't so, but I knew it was. And me and my husband always talked about. He was stoned during his university. He has no memory of.
0:17:22.130 --> 0:17:29.90
Nicole
Most of the University of the social, so it depended on what you were doing at the time. But yes, it was there. Absolutely.
0:17:34.460 --> 0:17:36.60
Elizabeth Lafrance
During the 1970s.
0:17:36.980 --> 0:17:51.780
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, and you don't have to answer this question, but during 1970s speak about tripping and taking psychedelics to reach a higher state of consciousness. To what extent did students on campus use hallucinogens?
0:17:52.260 --> 0:17:56.360
Nicole
I knew they were, but because I wasn't in it, I don't know.
0:17:58.340 --> 0:17:59.360
Nicole
I mean, I heard about it.
0:18:0.0 --> 0:18:5.330
Nicole
People talk about it, but I didn't do any of it, so I was afraid of drugs actually most.
0:18:5.990 --> 0:18:13.170
Nicole
Really was? I just didn't trust people. Just little Baggies walking around saying here, you know, I just didn't trust it.
0:18:14.130 --> 0:18:14.470
Nicole
So.
0:18:15.540 --> 0:18:18.370
Elizabeth Lafrance
But you were like around that kind of like culture.
0:18:18.150 --> 0:18:24.210
Nicole
Yes, sometimes I was, yeah. Depending on the party, there was always somebody that had a bad a baggie of something.
0:18:25.820 --> 0:18:27.0
Nicole
And you could always get it.
0:18:27.670 --> 0:18:28.180
Nicole
But.
0:18:29.270 --> 0:18:30.880
Nicole
Our group was pretty.
0:18:31.890 --> 0:18:34.530
Nicole
Quiet compared for the for drugs anyway.
0:18:35.950 --> 0:18:43.490
Nicole
So we just kind of stayed away from it and there was groups that that's all they did, they were always stoned in class and out of class.
0:18:44.260 --> 0:18:45.120
Nicole
They they were.
0:18:45.840 --> 0:19:1.200
Nicole
Fine, because I did take quite a lot of our classes outside of the Phys Ed department. Right? You still have sociology. You still had language. You still have other classes where we were mixed with other departments, and there was always somebody that was so gone.
0:19:1.830 --> 0:19:2.530
Nicole
Sat there and.
0:19:4.940 --> 0:19:5.170
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
0:19:4.350 --> 0:19:5.750
Nicole
Don't know why they were there, really.
0:19:11.360 --> 0:19:11.530
Nicole
Yeah.
0:19:9.190 --> 0:19:13.140
Elizabeth Lafrance
So this is like the second section, the female experience.
0:19:14.630 --> 0:19:14.910
Elizabeth Lafrance
Uh.
0:19:14.10 --> 0:19:16.960
Nicole
You don't have to read the whole question if you don't want to.
0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.500
Elizabeth Lafrance
I'll probably do it for like the transcript.
0:19:20.530 --> 0:19:22.0
Nicole
OK, it helps.
0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.730
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um cultural historians have written a lot about.
0:19:27.470 --> 0:19:44.800
Elizabeth Lafrance
What they call second wave feminism guy as per of the culture, cultural movement, women during the early 1970s sought to breakdown gender barriers. What does this argument resonate with your experience on the University of Ottawa campus during the early 70s?
0:19:49.430 --> 0:19:54.920
Nicole
The biggest change in our world, and it was massive really.
0:19:56.390 --> 0:20:0.640
Nicole
All of a sudden, all you need to do was take the pill, you didn't get Pregnant.
0:20:1.480 --> 0:20:7.10
Nicole
And that completely changed their lives as a group of women and.
0:20:7.920 --> 0:20:9.890
Nicole
Most of my friends, we were all in the pit.
0:20:11.780 --> 0:20:16.350
Nicole
And in those days, those pills could have worked on a horse.
0:20:17.260 --> 0:20:22.90
Nicole
And not getting pregnant. It was so, so strong it was.
0:20:23.270 --> 0:20:31.810
Nicole
Crazy the level of of hormones that they gave us in those initial wave of pills, but we took them.
0:20:32.740 --> 0:20:34.410
Nicole
And so.
0:20:35.260 --> 0:20:42.910
Nicole
We didn't hear as much about, you know, the horrible life of being pregnant because.
0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.90
Nicole
Pretty well. Everybody was on the pill that wanted to.
0:20:48.290 --> 0:20:49.250
Nicole
And you could get it.
0:20:50.330 --> 0:20:59.370
Nicole
On or off campus somewhere close, so all the people in residence are the women in residence would go and get, you know, get on the pill.
0:21:2.180 --> 0:21:10.130
Elizabeth Lafrance
In your own words, did feminism signify in Canada during the early 1970s, or what did? Sorry.
0:21:10.580 --> 0:21:19.840
Nicole
Well, apart from the pill, equal rights all of a sudden, yes, we did a lot of talking as women about how.
0:21:22.490 --> 0:21:30.530
Nicole
Our parents were our our mothers were being encased in this expectation and that we didn't wanna be the same.
0:21:31.530 --> 0:21:38.10
Nicole
We wanted to have more choices. We wanted more things and we realized very quickly that.
0:21:39.870 --> 0:21:49.410
Nicole
It was the man that was running this world and and we weren’t. We were. There was a lot of discussion. There was some really good discussions about.
0:21:50.40 --> 0:22:19.990
Nicole
Representation about government being only men, you know, corporations being led by men we were. We were definitely incensed about that. And it that messaging was definitely coming from the states. It we were hearing it. We were seeing it, there was campus groupings of women that and I remember sitting a couple of them I went, you know, once in a while I'd sit in on on some of those groups you. Cassie was really important that we we understand.
0:22:20.70 --> 0:22:21.750
Nicole
Why and how to change that?
0:22:22.410 --> 0:22:36.760
Nicole
But University had the social culture and the and the intellectual culture that we were more even equal because you could talk and you could challenge it there.
0:22:37.670 --> 0:22:40.570
Nicole
But it was very different when we went out into the real world.
0:22:42.170 --> 0:22:46.80
Nicole
That environment that university gave, gave us the opportunity.
0:22:46.730 --> 0:22:47.770
Nicole
To question ourselves.
0:22:48.550 --> 0:22:51.0
Nicole
But it's only when we got into the real world that.
0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:53.70
Nicole
We realized wait a SEC.
0:22:54.40 --> 0:22:55.530
Nicole
Still not doing it right.
0:23:4.280 --> 0:23:4.720
Nicole
Yes.
0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:5.190
Elizabeth Lafrance
So were you a part of like those conversations that was happening in university about, like, feminism and, like, equal rights?
0:23:6.260 --> 0:23:12.830
Nicole
Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Often we. Like I said, we would join some of the groups and, and have these discussions.
0:23:13.710 --> 0:23:36.530
Nicole
Think we thought we with the universities you can create a group anytime you wanted to and you could, you know, have a meeting and use a a room. So yes, I-I did was I one to March? No, because I felt quite comfortable where I was in my world. But yes we did. I did sit in on quite a lot of the discussions at that time.
0:23:39.60 --> 0:23:39.570
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um.
0:23:41.130 --> 0:23:53.680
Elizabeth Lafrance
Gender distinctions were more pronounced in the 1970s than today. How did being a woman result in different treatment and expectations in classrooms or at social events compared to the male students?
0:23:54.510 --> 0:23:59.600
Nicole
So the most interesting thing that happened to us when we when I started.
0:24:0.420 --> 0:24:1.950
Nicole
The first year.
0:24:3.250 --> 0:24:24.580
Nicole
All our classes. OK, so we were the things that we were specializing in teaching physical education, right. It was a course that brought you teaching Phys Ed in schools. OK, so at the first my first year, all my courses in sports were separate.
0:24:25.420 --> 0:24:26.130
Nicole
From the boys.
0:24:27.50 --> 0:24:37.100
Nicole
So we learned the female courses like dance and all of the sports, even basketball. It was all the girls together.
0:24:38.330 --> 0:24:47.300
Nicole
The next year we were there, UOttawa, the Department of Phys Ed, decided that they could not keep doing this.
0:24:48.230 --> 0:25:4.230
Nicole
Because when a teachers got into the real world of teaching, they got caught or they got, they were told they had to teach a class of boys or a class of girls, and they didn't have any background in it.
0:25:4.900 --> 0:25:13.370 Nicole
So that second year and forever after that, all the teaching of sports was mixed.
0:25:14.230 --> 0:25:25.600
Nicole
So, and it was hilarious. I can still see this. One of the guys. And I knew him quite well. He was huge. He was like 280 and he was on the provincial wrestling team.
0:25:27.90 --> 0:25:35.360
Nicole
And he comes to me and says, OK, here it is. You're gonna teach me how to teach dance. And I'm gonna teach you how to how to teach wrestling.
0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:43.880
Nicole
I'm nearly got killed with him because he was so huge, but that's how much we had to change all of a sudden.
0:25:44.650 --> 0:25:54.380
Nicole
How we were looking at-at all of the introduction of teaching, because we have to learn the other sports.
0:25:55.280 --> 0:26:9.330
Nicole
And that was a huge hardship, and the teachers had a hard time with you because here you come in with a group of women and go, OK, what do we do with them? Like, how am I gonna teach wrestling to girls who never in their lives wrestle?
0:26:10.210 --> 0:26:10.830
Nicole
That was.
0:26:10.780 --> 0:26:11.50
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yeah.
0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:16.180
Nicole
A big piece, but absolutely shifted how we looked at everything.
0:26:17.30 --> 0:26:20.860
Nicole
And because of that my first job.
0:26:21.980 --> 0:26:28.60
Nicole
I was able to teach. I had three girls classes, but I had two boys classes.
0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.370
Nicole
And they hired me because I had had that preparation.
0:26:33.890 --> 0:26:34.880
Nicole
But it did make a difference.
0:26:35.730 --> 0:26:36.60
Nicole
Yeah.
0:26:37.750 --> 0:26:45.460
Elizabeth Lafrance
And the 1970s were there, UOttawa programs, departments or clubs where women were less present and accepted?
0:26:46.30 --> 0:26:46.230
Nicole
Absoluteely.
0:26:46.340 --> 0:26:46.840
Nicole
Remotely.
0:26:47.540 --> 0:26:52.0
Nicole
Everywhere there were certain things that you could see that you know, the women just weren't there.
0:26:52.660 --> 0:26:55.710
Nicole
Um, there was there was a.
0:26:56.490 --> 0:27:4.870
Nicole
Pick up hockey was the one of the first ones, and again, because women didn't play hockey in those days.
0:27:6.140 --> 0:27:11.890
Nicole
And I remember going to the rink and that's just one example going to the rink and saying I’d love to play hockey.
0:27:12.660 --> 0:27:16.670
Nicole
I can skate. Why can't I learn to play hockey? I got killed.
0:27:18.140 --> 0:27:31.300
Nicole
And if we should pick up hockey, but I because the guys knew me, I they taught me how to do it. But Oh God, there was so many things where it was still the women on one side and the minimum. There's no question about it.
0:27:32.60 --> 0:27:43.900
Nicole
And the man introduced, you know, wanting to go on the on the women's side too, it was as much one side as the other, but slowly, by the end of my five years.
0:27:44.740 --> 0:27:47.350
Nicole
It it was integrated a lot more.
0:27:48.10 --> 0:27:49.820
Nicole
Space compared to when I started.
0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:51.230
Nicole
Absolutely.
0:27:53.430 --> 0:27:57.640
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did you yourself face challenges, like when you wanted to like?
0:27:58.430 --> 0:28:1.520
Elizabeth Lafrance
Go into a space that was not as like female dominated.
0:28:3.190 --> 0:28:4.880
Nicole
Yes, absolutely.
0:28:5.680 --> 0:28:9.230
Nicole
Um and some women were more.
0:28:10.250 --> 0:28:13.460
Nicole
Comfortable and being in that world.
0:28:14.630 --> 0:28:29.900
Nicole
And I was, um, it really depended on how you-you looked at things. Some of the women weren't comfortable at all. I was skiing instructor, downhill ski instructor, and I ran.
0:28:31.0 --> 0:28:33.730
Nicole
The Speed School Children's school. At camp fortune.
0:28:35.210 --> 0:28:48.180
Nicole
All the way through university on the weekends, I was in charge of all the kids programs and we're talking 2000 kids a weekend. It was a massive ski school and I ran that.
0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.670
Nicole
So I was with the guys all the time.
0:28:52.30 --> 0:29:3.840
Nicole
And I was the only woman that ran these programs. The others were all male, so I was more comfortable. But I knew a lot of women who would never have stepped up.
0:29:5.130 --> 0:29:15.970
Nicole
But again, by the end of my five years there, it was more accepted. It was more natural to have a women coming into sports that.
0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:17.840
Nicole
You know, wouldn't have.
0:29:18.500 --> 0:29:25.430
Nicole
Now, but even then, I- my daughter, who played boys, competitive hockey.
0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:36.310
Nicole
Did have her challenges? So I could I can still see. It's not completely there. It never will be. I don't think. But we've come a long way.
0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:44.790
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, so I'm going to move on to the another theme that ideology and generation on differences.
0:29:46.490 --> 0:30:6.920
Elizabeth Lafrance
Historians have written a lot about what they call the counterculture revolution, meaning that your generation rebelled against the values of your parents, generation. To what extent did people in your social circle see themselves as needing to mobilize or a more just or just adjust society and better world?
0:30:8.590 --> 0:30:17.580
Nicole
So there's a lot of. So we talked a lot about language and female and male. The one I think that.
0:30:18.750 --> 0:30:23.170
Nicole
Really, we started to understand more as we got into you like.
0:30:24.770 --> 0:30:29.890
Nicole
Old in more older grades of the university was more multicultural.
0:30:31.100 --> 0:30:31.850
Nicole
It was all white.
0:30:32.730 --> 0:30:35.230
Nicole
And if there were so few black.
0:30:35.890 --> 0:30:37.620
Nicole
Kids in the school.
0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:50.290
Nicole
And that's the one that we all all of a sudden started questioning saying, why is it like that? Like what is it with, you know, all of a sudden there was there was these discussions about.
0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:55.710
Nicole
That hadn't existed before. My world was completely white.
0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:7.10
Nicole
And all of a sudden we were starting to say, well, why aren't they here or there we-we would talk to them and and they would be starting to say.
0:31:8.210 --> 0:31:9.650
Nicole
But why is it like that?
0:31:9.990 --> 0:31:13.250
Nicole
Um, so yeah, we-we did start.
0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:26.620
Nicole
Talking about why and how you know, also again still the male female challenges of being represented to everywhere. So we you were pushing the envelope.
0:31:28.220 --> 0:31:31.890
Nicole
In our days, quite a lot more than when we started.
0:31:33.510 --> 0:31:43.110
Nicole
There was a lot more of why not and why can't we do this and let's let's go and find out or let's get involved more.
0:31:44.300 --> 0:31:51.940
Nicole
Which a lot of women didn't at the beginning and we had a greater voice of challenging that that piece.
0:31:53.80 --> 0:31:55.260
Nicole
But the multicultural piece does.
0:31:56.270 --> 0:32:1.540
Nicole
I really eye opener at the beginning started talking to the few.
0:32:2.680 --> 0:32:3.980
Nicole
Black kids that were with us.
0:32:5.290 --> 0:32:8.110
Nicole
And it was really eye opening back for sure.
0:32:10.650 --> 0:32:18.90
Elizabeth Lafrance
To what extent did your generation believe that your parents, and their notions about gender, family and dating, were outdated?
0:32:20.490 --> 0:32:21.160
Nicole
OK.
0:32:24.290 --> 0:32:28.780
Nicole
Yes, it it was because of the pill. The pill changed our lives.
0:32:29.540 --> 0:32:30.870
Nicole
Because before that.
0:32:31.650 --> 0:32:32.40
Nicole
If.
0:32:35.950 --> 0:32:40.80
Nicole
And all of a sudden that was all gone. You could do whatever you wanted to.
0:32:40.770 --> 0:32:42.460
Nicole
Where as our parents.
0:32:43.630 --> 0:32:47.0
Nicole
You know, they they really believed in in being, you know.
0:32:48.370 --> 0:32:49.740
Nicole
More individual.
0:32:50.380 --> 0:32:51.30
Nicole
Um.
0:32:53.180 --> 0:32:58.140
Nicole
I could see that that was definitely a challenge.
0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:0.650
Nicole
Equal pay for equal work.
0:33:1.650 --> 0:33:7.930
Nicole
Um, I think that was one that we started hearing a lot now in education, it was equal.
0:33:8.910 --> 0:33:18.150
Nicole
But the jobs were not equal and we were hearing that already because we would have, we would go into schools and do practicals.
0:33:19.140 --> 0:33:23.690
Nicole
And so we were in the schools and it was very obvious that.
0:33:24.620 --> 0:33:28.270
Nicole
The senior administration, principals and vice principals were all male.
0:33:29.910 --> 0:33:31.140
Nicole
There were no female.
0:33:32.10 --> 0:33:36.460
Nicole
That we saw. So we realized even then that.
0:33:37.210 --> 0:33:43.250
Nicole
Wait a SEC, why is there not. And-and 80% of teachers are female, but yet?
0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:53.780
Nicole
You know, it was like 90% male in administration and and and also in the teaching environment we didn't have a lot of female teachers.
0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.420
Nicole
So, and the ones we did really did help us.
0:33:59.210 --> 0:34:2.680
Nicole
To voice our-our concerns, but there's no question.
0:34:3.850 --> 0:34:6.370
Nicole
We were second guessing ourselves for that one for sure.
0:34:9.860 --> 0:34:12.670
Elizabeth Lafrance
Talking about to the 1970s.
0:34:14.780 --> 0:34:21.160
Elizabeth Lafrance
What aspect of Canadian to society did you see as most out of whack and in needing of fixing?
0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:24.170
Nicole
Again, same thing. It really was.
0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.330
Nicole
OK, great. equal work.
0:34:28.460 --> 0:34:37.30
Nicole
We- it was very obvious about that. We thought we could change the world. You do when you're at university because you're talking with other people that agree with you.
0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:42.830
Nicole
And so it's only when you get into the work world that.
0:34:43.710 --> 0:34:46.310
Nicole
Things don't change as quickly as you want it to.
0:34:47.350 --> 0:34:51.180
Nicole
So the environment you live in through your university years.
0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:54.120
Nicole
Are your most open.
0:34:55.260 --> 0:34:58.840
Nicole
In terms of questioning the why and how.
0:35:0.160 --> 0:35:4.550
Nicole
But it's only when you get into the work world that you realize, oh.
0:35:5.260 --> 0:35:6.120
Nicole
It's not as simple as that.
0:35:7.710 --> 0:35:10.120
Nicole
But in theory it sounded great that university.
0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:12.680
Nicole
That was a huge right there.
0:35:14.240 --> 0:35:17.120
Nicole
And and it needed fixing. There's no question about that.
0:35:19.370 --> 0:35:20.140
Nicole
That’s the difference.
0:35:19.850 --> 0:35:20.380
Elizabeth Lafrance I'm.
0:35:24.900 --> 0:35:30.690
Elizabeth Lafrance
What were the principle forms of injustice in Canadian society during the 1970s?
0:35:32.130 --> 0:35:36.950
Nicole
Again, women being able to work outside of home.
0:35:37.700 --> 0:35:41.610
Nicole
And I was still in that generation where you stayed at home with your kids.
0:35:42.810 --> 0:35:43.680
Nicole
Um.
0:35:45.890 --> 0:36:2.190
Nicole
And most women I knew were talking about being home with kids, you know, and share your kids and racism again, same thing. There was a lot of injustices in-in, in the black community.
0:36:2.940 --> 0:36:5.870
Nicole
And we were just starting to be aware.
0:36:7.510 --> 0:36:9.410
Nicole
So there was definitely.
0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:11.330
Nicole
For that too.
0:36:15.240 --> 0:36:23.480
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did you feel that any political system was democratic, fair and responsive to citizens needs?
0:36:24.430 --> 0:36:28.890
Nicole
They were responsible, responsive to the white male.
0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:31.260
Nicole
No one else.
0:36:32.40 --> 0:36:33.850
Nicole
It was all about the white male.
0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:36.420
Nicole
Everything was.
0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:44.900
Nicole
Control directed. There's no question that we were not equal and not and we still are not represented.
0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:49.130
Nicole
So you can imagine back then how much, how little there was.
0:36:49.900 --> 0:37:2.930
Nicole
And we were we were talking about it a lot more or aware of it here. That first generation that said, hang on here. You know, why is it that? But it took a lot of.
0:37:4.100 --> 0:37:8.840
Nicole
Thinking of looking ahead to want to be one of those women that broke the seal?
0:37:10.110 --> 0:37:12.820
Nicole
And that was that. It took a while for that to happen.
0:37:13.620 --> 0:37:13.820
Nicole
Here.
0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:16.930
Elizabeth Lafrance
And.
0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:25.80
Elizabeth Lafrance
So this is also talking on how cultural historians have argued that introduction to the birth control pill.
0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:28.70
Elizabeth Lafrance
Legalization of abortion and dissemination.
0:37:28.550 --> 0:37:40.540
Elizabeth Lafrance
Of the manifestation of the free love ideology changed general gender relations and dating practices, in the early 1970s, do you agree with this statement?
0:37:41.10 --> 0:37:48.790
Nicole
Absolutely. It was massive. It really was. It was huge. It changed the whole lives up for us as a woman.
0:37:49.780 --> 0:37:53.570
Nicole
And you could decide when you wanted to be a mother.
0:37:55.340 --> 0:37:56.0
Nicole
Didn't before.
0:37:56.650 --> 0:38:0.370
Nicole
There was an expectation when I remember my mom telling me that that.
0:38:1.490 --> 0:38:8.570
Nicole
These would come around and they’d be pregnant by now. Again like there was a huge push, whereas the pill changed back.
0:38:9.540 --> 0:38:12.370
Nicole
You wanted to work for another five years and not get pregnant.
0:38:13.500 --> 0:38:13.820
Nicole
Yes.
0:38:14.660 --> 0:38:18.750
Nicole
And you had control over your life much, much more than our parents did.
0:38:22.500 --> 0:38:26.660
Elizabeth Lafrance
What did dating look like? At UOttawa in the 1970s?
0:38:29.220 --> 0:38:29.420
Nicole
I.
0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:31.310
Nicole
It was pretty crazy.
0:38:32.430 --> 0:38:36.760
Nicole
It really was that first generation of.
0:38:37.500 --> 0:38:38.950
Nicole
Whenever we want because.
0:38:39.630 --> 0:38:40.660
Nicole
I can't get pregnant.
0:38:42.210 --> 0:38:43.750
Nicole
So it was.
0:38:44.620 --> 0:38:47.480
Nicole
Some of it was bad. Some of it was over the top.
0:38:48.290 --> 0:38:51.0
Nicole
Some women got badly.
0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:54.100
Nicole
Abused.
0:38:55.90 --> 0:38:57.940
Nicole
Because of that, and we.
0:38:58.810 --> 0:39:1.610
Nicole
We didn't know any better to say.
0:39:4.210 --> 0:39:6.660
Nicole
It's saying when we said no.
0:39:7.310 --> 0:39:9.480
Nicole
It means no those days.
0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:15.250
Nicole
You-you had to be strong as an individual woman to say no.
0:39:15.980 --> 0:39:20.120
Nicole
And then I heard through the Grapevine often.
0:39:21.190 --> 0:39:33.200
Nicole
Me push the limits and women have been raped and and we would talk about it, but we never did anything about it. You didn't go to the police, didn't go to senior staff about it. You just.
0:39:34.660 --> 0:39:36.660
Nicole
Model of the person that had lived through it.
0:39:38.20 --> 0:39:38.580
Nicole
It was.
0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:40.940
Nicole
Yeah, it was bad.
0:39:41.740 --> 0:39:47.920
Nicole
Um, you got smart as the group of women, and so if you didn't want to be.
0:39:48.940 --> 0:39:51.430
Nicole
You you moved in groups a lot.
0:39:52.980 --> 0:39:55.390
Nicole
As women, we still do, don't you?
0:39:56.180 --> 0:39:56.660
Nicole
You know.
0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:56.910
Elizabeth Lafrance
Yes.
0:39:57.340 --> 0:40:0.250
Nicole
Yeah. So you learn to be smart.
0:40:1.810 --> 0:40:3.920
Nicole
And I think that's what we learned.
0:40:4.750 --> 0:40:8.940
Nicole
About that part, just because you were on the pill did not mean you were safe, yes.
0:40:9.690 --> 0:40:13.400
Nicole
That's the people I think that they're very quickly.
0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:14.600
Nicole
Um.
0:40:15.330 --> 0:40:16.590
Nicole
And saying no.
0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:29.750
Nicole
With something that we learned has a group of women like talking to each other and and saying, wait a SEC. You know, I don't want to go out with this guy and they're saying, well, why do we have to kind of thing?
0:40:30.500 --> 0:40:30.820
Nicole
Yes.
0:40:31.930 --> 0:40:32.230
Nicole
Negative.
0:40:33.470 --> 0:40:36.960
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um, how did your generation look at family and marriage?
0:40:38.430 --> 0:40:38.890
Nicole
Ah.
0:40:40.240 --> 0:40:40.680
Nicole
I think.
0:40:42.60 --> 0:40:48.280
Nicole
We still work very, very much living the same as our parents in terms of expectations.
0:40:49.180 --> 0:40:51.520
Nicole
Finding a family wanting to be married.
0:40:52.240 --> 0:40:58.450
Nicole
But we took longer to do it. We waited longer because we had that luxury.
0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:1.40
Nicole
Of not getting pregnant.
0:41:2.40 --> 0:41:6.710
Nicole
He had the time to make the decisions later.
0:41:7.440 --> 0:41:8.170
Nicole
Then our parents.
0:41:8.930 --> 0:41:12.30
Nicole
My mom was pregnant by 21.
0:41:12.690 --> 0:41:16.400
Nicole
Married. You know, in the suit she's married. She was pregnant.
0:41:17.500 --> 0:41:18.110
Nicole
Whereas.
0:41:18.870 --> 0:41:33.130
Nicole
I had that luxury of saying, well, you know what I-I wanna work. I wanna work more and take my time making those decisions and maybe finding the right guy. And so we had that luxury.
0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:42.550
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um.
0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:44.150
Elizabeth Lafrance
And so.
0:41:45.20 --> 0:41:46.620
Elizabeth Lafrance
You’ve read the questions, right?
0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:47.140
Nicole
Yeah.
0:41:49.430 --> 0:41:49.780
Nicole
Yeah.
0:41:48.40 --> 0:41:50.980
Elizabeth Lafrance
Do you want to answer like, the final question?
0:41:51.930 --> 0:41:52.990
Elizabeth Lafrance
Um.
0:41:55.290 --> 0:42:6.110
Elizabeth Lafrance
Many universities today have been forced to police sexual harassment. To what extent did university authorities monitor mixers and social events to keep women safe?
0:42:6.810 --> 0:42:7.920
Nicole
Absolutely nothing.
0:42:9.600 --> 0:42:17.380
Nicole
There was always a security guard there, but he was as dangerous as the kids and the boys.
0:42:18.130 --> 0:42:21.730
Nicole
And that's why we were really hung out as groups.
0:42:22.870 --> 0:42:29.100
Nicole
So women, unless you were with your boyfriend, you know that was wrong. You know, more of a relationship.
0:42:30.70 --> 0:42:40.430
Nicole
That security was half the time. It was one of the older guys that was paid to be that. It would have put a jacket on and he'd be a security guy.
0:42:41.100 --> 0:42:51.650
Nicole
Or an older man. And no, you did not go and tell those guys that something happened to you. It was never talked that way unless.
0:42:53.250 --> 0:43:3.420
Nicole
Unless the woman was beaten up and you had called, you had to call an ambulance. That was a different story, and even then it was it was not sexually.
0:43:5.630 --> 0:43:9.850
Nicole
I'm saying so it we didn’t talk about that part very much- she didn't.
0:43:10.870 --> 0:43:16.530
Nicole
I never experienced anyone around me that happened. I heard it through the Grapevine.
0:43:17.210 --> 0:43:17.800
Nicole
Um.
0:43:18.900 --> 0:43:21.270
Nicole
But no, there was.
Nicole
You really had to think on your feet. You had to be smart.
0:43:30.350 --> 0:43:31.740
Nicole
And you learned that.
0:43:32.410 --> 0:43:39.910
Nicole
Being the women burned, what was safer to do so that you wouldn't? You wouldn't get in that situation.
0:43:40.680 --> 0:43:41.320
Nicole
And.
0:43:42.490 --> 0:43:53.430
Nicole
I was lucky and my group lucky, so I guess it depended on you know, the type of relationship you have with the guys and how you did each other.
0:43:54.60 --> 0:43:57.350
Nicole
But I heard that line I would hear about.
0:43:58.210 --> 0:43:58.460
Nicole
Or.
0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:3.890
Nicole
Absolutely. Especially the first two years and it was always senior guys.
0:44:4.780 --> 0:44:5.740
Nicole
You know that would be.
0:44:7.220 --> 0:44:10.700
Nicole
Going on at after the- the younger ones who had just arrived.
0:44:12.130 --> 0:44:13.620
Nicole
And that- that made a big difference.
0:44:16.810 --> 0:44:30.940
Elizabeth Lafrance
Our generation is interested in a free love movement. What was the perception of premarital sex on the University of Ottawa campus in 1970s? Was it viewed negatively, accepted or even encouraged?
0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:36.810
Nicole
It was encouraged. I was fun. It really was. I mean, we were that first generation.
0:44:37.550 --> 0:44:39.190
Nicole
That all of a sudden?
0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.170
Nicole
You you didn't have to worry about it. So you.
0:44:44.240 --> 0:44:45.10
Nicole
You had fun.
0:44:46.310 --> 0:44:48.260
Nicole
It was definitely expected.
0:44:48.920 --> 0:45:3.980
Nicole
And yet there was still a lot of girls who didn't want to go on the pill and did not really, you know, save themselves for the- the guy. And that was fine too. But most of us.
0:45:5.10 --> 0:45:8.760
Nicole
Um, you just live the way you want to.
0:45:10.170 --> 0:45:11.950
Nicole
It was pretty wild, that's for sure.
0:45:15.530 --> 0:45:21.460
Elizabeth Lafrance
Did members of your parents generation worry about pre marital sex?
0:45:22.30 --> 0:45:24.710
Nicole
Ohm. My God, my mother was so petrified for me to get pregnant.
0:45:25.410 --> 0:45:52.490
Nicole
And she didn't find out I was on the pill till much later. Didn't ask her permission to. I didn't dare talk about that. And it's only years later. And by then my sister, who's not much older and much younger than I was. And I'm the one who told her, alright, you're gonna do something. You better go get it and we could. We could go into a clinic. We could go into. It was right on campus.
0:45:53.850 --> 0:45:56.80
Nicole
That part you could find.
0:45:56.270 --> 0:46:0.980
Nicole
Um prescription for- for the pill, that's for sure.
0:46:2.130 --> 0:46:3.120
Nicole
It was.
0:46:5.350 --> 0:46:30.950
Nicole
It would. You just could find it. I- I went to my family doctor and by then I was one. And the other thing too. We were we were older because we had grade 13. Right. So we were one year older. So by the time we finished and I had to have a 5 year degree. So we were there for quite a while. So we were a lot older.
0:46:31.990 --> 0:46:33.570
Nicole
So that made a difference too.
0:46:34.660 --> 0:46:40.720
Nicole
But the decisions were easier to get to, and the- the bill was easy to get too, for sure.
0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:41.950
Nicole
Um.
0:46:42.850 --> 0:46:45.80
Nicole
And I think that changed. How.
0:46:46.610 --> 0:46:47.220
Nicole
We lived.
0:46:51.100 --> 0:46:52.80
Elizabeth Lafrance
So it's all my questions.
0:46:53.10 --> 0:46:56.590
Elizabeth Lafrance
I'm going to stop the recording and.
0:46:59.10 --> 0:46:59.680
Elizabeth Lafrance
transcription now.

Original Format

MP4, 47 minutes, 13 seconds

Citation

“Turpin, Nicole (interview),” Life on Campus, accessed November 21, 2024, http://omeka.uottawa.ca/lifeoncampus/items/show/55.

Output Formats